Anti-Christ European Who is the harlot (harlot) in Revelation 17?

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Like pretty much everything in the Revelation, "many waters" has two meanings, a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning. And as I already said Soviet-era Moscow also ruled over many peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues.
Why come up with a "symbolic" meaning when John TELLS US what it means?

As I posted before, John also tells us WHO and WHAT this woman is, but few can believe his simple words:

"She" is a CITY. John called her that "GREAT CITY."
In another place He called JERUSALEM the "GREAT CITY."
Same author, same book: I think we need to give John some credit.

Surely you understand that for much of the last 3.5 years of the week, the Antichrist Beast will be deceiving the entire world from JERUSALEM?
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
See Ezekiel 16, Ezekiel 23, and Jeremiah 4.

How exactly is the Church drunk on the blood of martyred Christians? Do you think she is just all tipsy and fevered this many centuries later, thrilled of her doings?

What does this even mean? Who are the harlots of which the Church is the mother? How can you really say the Catholic Church is the mother of abominations and harlots of the earth? Or that the Church is 'riding the beast'?

Agreed.
All this when John CLEARLY tells us.
 
Upvote 0

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
Why come up with a "symbolic" meaning when John TELLS US what it means?

As I posted before, John also tells us WHO and WHAT this woman is, but few can believe his simple words:

"She" is a CITY. John called her that "GREAT CITY."
In another place He called JERUSALEM the "GREAT CITY."
Same author, same book: I think we need to give John some credit.

Surely you understand that for much of the last 3.5 years of the week, the Antichrist Beast will be deceiving the entire world from JERUSALEM?

Hard to see an Antichrist coming from Jerusalem.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
There is no need: John TOLD us who Babylon is. Jerusalem. Believe it.
The problem with that theory is Jerusalem is the one who says "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord", and who Jesus rescues the Jews there in Zechariah 14.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Hard to see an Antichrist coming from Jerusalem.
I don't see that happening either. And the Pope is not qualified to become the Antichrist - someone to be anointed King of Israel - instead of and against the rightful king Jesus. The person has to be a Jew, so I can understand some of thinking that he comes from Jerusalem, but since the person comes out of the sea in Revelation and in Daniel 7 - that is an indication out of the gentile nations. But the Pope is not the guy in spite of what the reformers say.

There is also the consideration of who the original beast is - the one who was already in the bottomless pit at the time of John. Obviously not a Pope. The clue is Mystery Babylon. Which Babylon originally is rooted in the tower of Babel days. And in the spiritual sense antithetical to the Kingdom of God, the kingdom of Satan and the fallen angels overshadowing the earth.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ihavefoundgod951

Regular Member
Mar 4, 2014
2,674
209
✟11,909.00
Faith
Christian
Why come up with a "symbolic" meaning when John TELLS US what it means?

As I posted before, John also tells us WHO and WHAT this woman is, but few can believe his simple words:

"She" is a CITY. John called her that "GREAT CITY."
In another place He called JERUSALEM the "GREAT CITY."
Same author, same book: I think we need to give John some credit.

Surely you understand that for much of the last 3.5 years of the week, the Antichrist Beast will be deceiving the entire world from JERUSALEM?
I guess Judaism is antichrist (they don't accept christ)

This is a theory I have read on a Catholic website (they have pretty good scholars, but of course they are not gonna say the harlot is themselves lol)

Could it be the Orthodox church? The church Jesus christ himself created?
 
Upvote 0

Postvieww

Believer
Sep 29, 2014
4,526
1,313
South
✟105,162.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Why come up with a "symbolic" meaning when John TELLS US what it means?

As I posted before, John also tells us WHO and WHAT this woman is, but few can believe his simple words:

"She" is a CITY. John called her that "GREAT CITY."
In another place He called JERUSALEM the "GREAT CITY."
Same author, same book: I think we need to give John some credit.

Surely you understand that for much of the last 3.5 years of the week, the Antichrist Beast will be deceiving the entire world from JERUSALEM?

Does Isaiah 13:20 fit Jerusalem?


Isa.13: 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.


Isa. 20:9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.


Jeremiah 51: 60 So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil that should come upon Babylon, even all these words that are written against Babylon.


61 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words;


62 Then shalt thou say, O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.


How can this be Jerusalem?


63 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:


64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.



Rev 18: 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.


Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


This cannot be Jerusalem.


22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;


23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Zechariah 14: 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.


Just because of the words “Great City” you can’t make all of the rest of this line up.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ivebeenshown

Expert invisible poster and thread killer
Apr 27, 2010
7,073
623
✟17,740.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I think if a person looked back at those passages - of God's judgment on Israel, referred to by God as His wife, playing the harlot for getting into worshipping false gods, and making friendship with the enemy - that same pattern in similitude could be applied to the RCC, the Vatican which the church is supposed to be the bride of Christ.
The Church does not worship any false gods. Worship is done in the heart, in the spirit of a man, not by a physical action. Statues don't have to be idols and kneeling doesn't have to be worshiping. We believe and trust in no one but God in the divine sense, and we also have faith and trust in each other in the communal sense, which includes the souls of the saints in heaven as well as those still living on earth.

When you say the Church, as a Catholic, automatically mean it as the RCC. The RCC and Vatican did commit atrocities against Christians in the millions in the inquisition. And still seeks to bring all Christians back under the rule of the Vatican and Pope - so yes the RCC and Vatican are still hung over in that idea, that was the basis of the inquisition to start with.
Millions? I can't point to a smaller number as justification for what was done, but I seriously doubt the number was greater than all of the atrocities carried out in the name of Mohammed, or in the name of mankind (that is, by atheists), or in the name of the Roman Empire, when countless Christians were martyred for sport. On top of this, the Church is not "hung over in that idea", as she has expressly derided torture and the death penalty for some time now, and her profuse apologies and shame over those past events can hardly serve the cause of claiming that she is "drunk on their blood."

No, I don't think mother of abominations and harlots of the earth can be laid on the RCC and Vatican.
Yet you do so, by claiming the Church is that same prophetic "person".

As I wrote in first post in this thread - I think the woman riding the beast, is Semiramis, which all the false religions and abominations on the earth stemmed forth from those days following the flood, and the Semiramis/Nimrod religion which spread into the various cultures, thereafter. The beast she was riding, was the original beast, now in the bottomless pit, Nimrod, imo.
I think that is a very interesting and deep observation that I would not have put together. I think you are touching on the larger theme of Revelation here, though: the city of God versus the city of the godless. Both are over the entire world -- we Christians are everywhere, as are those not in Christ.

It is only from a practical standpoint that the woman is the RCC and Vatican along with Rome that God is going to destroy for what has been done over the long haul.
I think it is in very poor taste to regard an institution that, in actuality, is merely the aggregation of some billion Christians who all profess that same death, resurrection, and coming of Jesus, as the "mother of abominations and harlots of the earth" who is "drunk on the blood of martyrs."
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The Church does not worship any false gods. Worship is done in the heart, in the spirit of a man, not by a physical action. Statues don't have to be idols and kneeling doesn't have to be worshiping. We believe and trust in no one but God in the divine sense, and we also have faith and trust in each other in the communal sense, which includes the souls of the saints in heaven as well as those still living on earth.

No, the RCC doesn't worship false gods, agreed. But the RCC does give too much adoration for the Pope. And has forgotten its first love Jesus, and has fallen in love with the church itself. Just as Israel drifted away from their first love.

Millions? I can't point to a smaller number as justification for what was done, but I seriously doubt the number was greater than all of the atrocities carried out in the name of Mohammed, or in the name of mankind (that is, by atheists), or in the name of the Roman Empire, when countless Christians were martyred for sport. On top of this, the Church is not "hung over in that idea", as she has expressly derided torture and the death penalty for some time now, and her profuse apologies and shame over those past events can hardly serve the cause of claiming that she is "drunk on their blood."
What right does the RCC and Vatican have to be killing and persecuting anyone who questions the leadership, it's authority over all of Christianity, and its doctrines? The reformers had a reason (albeit not correct prophesy wise) that the Pope and office of Pope were the Antichrist/beast/false prophet.

The RCC and the Vatican is still pursuing bringing all of Christianity under it's rule - it is intoxicated with power over the saints, and influence in the world.

Regarding Mohamed, Islam too is going to be judged. It's in Ezekiel 38/39, not only its armies, but the population centers
in some of the muslims countries. End of Islam must take place before the 7 years begin, and later the world worshiping the beast - which muslims if still around would not do because it is counter to their fundamental beliefs to be worshiping a
man who claims to be god.

Yet you do so, by claiming the Church is that same prophetic "person".
I stated why the RCC and Vatican cannot be the woman in regards to being the mother of harlots - because the RCC and Vatican were not in existence when all those things were spawned.

I think it is in very poor taste to regard an institution that, in actuality, is merely the aggregation of some billion Christians who all profess that same death, resurrection, and coming of Jesus, as the "mother of abominations and harlots of the earth" who is "drunk on the blood of martyrs."
You are focusing on the wrong thing, mother of abominations is not something the RCC spawned. But the persecution and martyring of Christians, is part of the history of the RCC and Vatican in the quest to maintain power, and still is the goal today. And unlike universal Christianity, the RCC and Vatican have venerated Mary,which is an extension of Semiramis and Nimrod religion, and have elevated the Pope to a level of adoration not in keeping with the bible.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Postvieww

Believer
Sep 29, 2014
4,526
1,313
South
✟105,162.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think if a person looked back at those passages - of God's judgment on Israel, referred to by God as His wife, playing the harlot for getting into worshipping false gods, and making friendship with the enemy - that same pattern in similitude could be applied to the RCC, the Vatican which the church is supposed to be the bride of Christ.

When you say the Church, as a Catholic, automatically mean it as the RCC. The RCC and Vatican did commit atrocities against Christians in the millions in the inquisition. And still seeks to bring all Christians back under the rule of the Vatican and Pope - so yes the RCC and Vatican are still hung over in that idea, that was the basis of the inquisition to start with.


No, I don't think mother of abominations and harlots of the earth can be laid on the RCC and Vatican.

As I wrote in first post in this thread - I think the woman riding the beast, is Semiramis, which all the false religions and abominations on the earth stemmed forth from those days following the flood, and the Semiramis/Nimrod religion which spread into the various cultures, thereafter. The beast she was riding, was the original beast, now in the bottomless pit, Nimrod, imo.

It is only from a practical standpoint that the woman is the RCC and Vatican along with Rome that God is going to destroy for what has been done over the long haul.

Douggg wrote:


As I wrote in first post in this thread - I think the woman riding the beast, is Semiramis, which all the false religions and abominations on the earth stemmed forth from those days following the flood, and the Semiramis/Nimrod religion which spread into the various cultures, thereafter. The beast she was riding, was the original beast, now in the bottomless pit, Nimrod, imo.



I agree with your above statement about “Semiramis” being the origin of all false religions.


Consider the connection between “Semiramis” and Islam. Very interesting video, please listen.




 
Upvote 0

Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
Aug 16, 2015
7,585
3,621
59
Under a Rock. Wales, UK
✟77,615.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Divorced
Was not Babylon also a 'secret' name for Rome in the past?

I dont see the Catholic Church as pushing anyone to join as a need. The Catholic church has not forgotten its first love! Jesus is and always be the top of everything in the Catholic church.

Islam thinks of Jesus as just a prophet and nothing more.

I do think the antichrist has to be a jew though as they totally dismiss Jesus (Vast majority of jews)
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Hard to see an Antichrist coming from Jerusalem.
Sorry, but He goes TO Jerusalem! If you read Rev. 11:1-2, that is the man of sin arriving in Jerusalem, just a few days before he will enter the temple and declare he is god. After all, he MUST arrive in Jerusalem before he can enter the temple there. REmember "anti"in Greek means "in the place of." He will come making out as if HE is the long awaited Jewish Messiah, OF COURSE the REAL Messiah will go to Jerusalem, so he must also to act like the real.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
The problem with that theory is Jerusalem is the one who says "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord", and who Jesus rescues the Jews there in Zechariah 14.
There will be Jews held captive there that Jesus will rescue when He comes. It may be that the enemies will not take the entire city. God may give them supernatural protection until He arrives.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I don't see that happening either. And the Pope is not qualified to become the Antichrist - someone to be anointed King of Israel - instead of and against the rightful king Jesus. The person has to be a Jew, so I can understand some of thinking that he comes from Jerusalem, but since the person comes out of the sea in Revelation and in Daniel 7 - that is an indication out of the gentile nations. But the Pope is not the guy in spite of what the reformers say.

There is also the consideration of who the original beast is - the one who was already in the bottomless pit at the time of John. Obviously not a Pope. The clue is Mystery Babylon. Which Babylon originally is rooted in the tower of Babel days. And in the spiritual sense antithetical to the Kingdom of God, the kingdom of Satan and the fallen angels overshadowing the earth.
Not coming FROM, but going TO. He is going to enter the temple in Jerusalem. How can this happen unless he first arrives there? We see his arrival in Rev. 11:1-3
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I guess Judaism is antichrist (they don't accept christ)

This is a theory I have read on a Catholic website (they have pretty good scholars, but of course they are not gonna say the harlot is themselves lol)

Could it be the Orthodox church? The church Jesus christ himself created?
No, you don't understand, the Beast and False prophet will make Jerusalem THEIR home for much of the last 3.5 years. They will deceive the entire world from there.
 
Upvote 0

Postvieww

Believer
Sep 29, 2014
4,526
1,313
South
✟105,162.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What nations will Christ fight against when He returns?


Joel 3:4-8 Tyre & Zidon = Lebanon


Ezekiel 28:20-26 Zidon = Lebanon


Joel 3:4 Palestine = Gaza


Isaiah 19:1-22 Egypt = Egypt


Jeremiah 49:7-8 Edom = Southern Jordan & North West Saudia Arabia


Jeremiaha 25:23-24 Arabia = Saudia Arabia


Zephaniah 2:11-12 Ethiopia=Southern Egypt & Northern Sudan


Ezekiel 39:5 Libya = Lybya


Zephaniah 2:8-9 Moab = Jordan

Numbers 24:17


Jeremiah 25:15-30 Ammon = Jordon

Jeremiah 49:1-6


Ezekiel 32:26-28, Meschech ,Tubal = Turkey

Ezek. 39:6 Magog

Ezek. 38:6 Togarmah, Gomer


Isaiah 7:8 Damascus = Damascus, Syria

Isaiah 17:1


Daniel 2:34-35 Persia = Iran

Ezekiel 38:1-8

Revelation 13:2


Zechariah 10:5-12 Assyria = Southern Turkey & Northern Iraq

Zephaniah 2:1-13

Micah 5:6


Isaiah 13 – 14 Babylonia = Iraq

Jeremiah 50 – 51


All of these are Muslim nations.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Does Isaiah 13:20 fit Jerusalem?


Isa.13: 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
No, that is the real Babylon, not the "Mystery Babylon"

Isa. 20:9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.
No, that is the real Babylon, not the "Mystery Babylon"


Jeremiah 51: 60 So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil that should come upon Babylon, even all these words that are written against Babylon.
Again the REAL babylon.



61 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words;


62 Then shalt thou say, O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.
That is the real Babylon, not the "Mystery Babylon"

How can this be Jerusalem?


63 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:
64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

That is the real Babylon, IRAQ.

Rev 18: 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.


Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
This cannot be Jerusalem.


You are not following what God is doing. It is true, MYSTERY Babylon, (Jerusalem as the center of the worst deception and false worship ever to be sent upon a lost world) will be destroyed and never rise again. In other words, NEVER AGAIN will deception come out of the city of Jerusalem. While the Antichrist Beast is there, every demon is there, because Satan will be possessing the Beast. It is not the city per say, It is who is there IN the city that makes it MYSTERY babylon. The real Babylon was where false worship and false gods originated. Mystery Babylon will be the new seat of Satan for the last 3.5 years of the 70th week. ALL the deception from the Beast and false prophet will come from here, Jerusalem, the city that was suppose to send the truth to all the world. WHERE ELSE would the false Messiah go?


22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

So all this can and will NEVER come from "Mystery Babyon" again, for the city of Jerusalem will NEVER AGAIN promote false worship and the murder of untold millions. But that is not to say it will not come from the real city of Jerusalem. JEsus will return there and set up His throne there, but MYSTERY Babylon will never exist again.


23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Zechariah 14: 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.




Just because of the words “Great City” you can’t make all of the rest of this line up.

So all this can and will NEVER come from "Mystery Babyon" again, for the city of Jerusalem will NEVER AGAIN promote false worship and the murder of untold millions so it would be called Sodom and Egypt and Mystery Babylon. But that is not to say it will not come from the real city of Jerusalem. Jesus will return there and set up His throne there, but MYSTERY Babylon will never exist again.

You see, "Mystery Babylon" is a play on words. All those things that will never exist there again will never come from a city that is deceiving the entire world.
 
Upvote 0