NYC will fine employers up to $250,000 for referring to ‘transsexuals’ by their natural gender

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cute Tink

Blah
Supporter
Nov 22, 2002
19,570
4,624
✟102,861.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I read his book and he documents everything he says. Have you read his book and looked at the source documents?

I just read the articles linked here. I have read his articles before. I have documented where he draws completely unsupported conclusions. I linked to the post. Now, you can either disregard me as a person on "the left" or you can challenge what I actually wrote and we can have a discussion about it. Either you can challenge my points or not, but posts suggesting that you are just going to disregard me because I don't accept nonsense are not convincing.
 
Upvote 0

PapaZoom

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2013
4,377
4,392
car
✟59,306.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
I love how everyone who disagrees with anti-LGBT misinformation is automatically assumed to be on the "left". Have fun with that. I'll continue to challenge when you bring up Walt Heyer's nonsense.
You didn't challenge anything. You attempted to marginalize someone with whom you disagree. And you use media matters as your support?
3.gif
 
Upvote 0

Kate92

Newbie
Jan 15, 2013
7
11
✟7,682.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Oh my. Some of you are quite stupid. Of course making single bathrooms doesn't make it easier to enter. What it does, is no longer make it suspicious when a man walks into a woman's restroom. You can no longer inform authorities of a suspicious man who went into a woman's bathroom, because that is discrimination. If you saw a man go into the ladie's room, you could report it, & possibly save someone from rape. Now, that criminal has it easy, because he doesn't have to worry about being seen entering the bathroom. After all, that's "normal". I'm sorry many of you don't consider rape serious. I value human life, & know the horrible physical & psychological endings that accompany rape victims.
 
Upvote 0

Cute Tink

Blah
Supporter
Nov 22, 2002
19,570
4,624
✟102,861.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
You didn't challenge anything. You attempted to marginalize someone with whom you disagree. And you use media matters as your support?
3.gif

No, I used his article as my support that he draws unwarranted conclusions. He cites 0 studies that demonstrate a 20% surgery regret rate. He assumes that any following problems are regret based without any support for his statement.

That's not marginalizing him. That's criticism.

Now, can you support him, or do you just idolize him to the point that you cannot see through the misinformation?

But let's talk about what media matters said:

He was misdiagnosed. He admits that on his website.

Media matters links to his page on research, which don't support his conclusions. For example, he quotes the Sweden research, which states, in part:

sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria

He says then: "who underwent the surgery only to discover that it did not help". The study concludes that the surgery alleviates gender dysphoria which is literally the purpose of the surgery. No medical treatment ever has been subjected to the concept that it must fix every problem that a person has, including unrelated problems. Another unsupportable position.

Then media matters links to an outside source debunking his position on transition regret.

Now, one of us is guilty of merely attacking the source and disregarding what is actually said. It's not me.
 
Upvote 0

katautumn

Prodigal Daughter
May 14, 2015
7,497
157
43
Atlanta, GA
✟24,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Just wanted to point out that, according to police records, there has never been a single case of restroom sexual assault related to allowing transfolk to use the restroom that best suits their identity. The problem with forcing transpeople to use the restroom of the sex they are assigned at birth is that for those who have what is known as "passing privilege", it can be very dangerous. Google the hashtag "#wejustneedtopee". It illustrates the problems transpeople face when they are prohibited from using the restroom that corresponds with their gender.

And, of course, there is this little gem from the world of transphobia. If this Republican lawmaker gets his way, being trans and using the restroom will be a misdemeanor offense:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jim-tomes-indiana-transgender-bathrooms
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cute Tink
Upvote 0

PapaZoom

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2013
4,377
4,392
car
✟59,306.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
Just wanted to point out that, according to police records, there has never been a single case of restroom sexual assault related to allowing transfolk to use the restroom that best suits their identity. The problem with forcing transpeople to use the restroom of the sex they are assigned at birth is that for those who have what is known as "passing privilege", it can be very dangerous. Google the hashtag "#wejustneedtopee". It illustrates the problems transpeople face when they are prohibited from using the restroom that corresponds with their gender.

And, of course, there is this little gem from the world of transphobia. If this Republican lawmaker gets his way, being trans and using the restroom will be a misdemeanor offense:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jim-tomes-indiana-transgender-bathrooms

I don't think the real issue for most people regarding trans males using the female restroom is that they might molest a female. I think some think that a male may take advantage of the policy. But I honestly don't think this is the real issue. Aside from the issue from a transgender's pov, there's the women in the bathroom and how their own comfort level might be jeopardized if they knew a person was a male but using the woman's facilities.

Personally if I'm in a restroom and a woman comes into the men's room, if it's not obvious she's a woman, how would I know? And if it is obvious, I wouldn't really care. I don't know how other men would feel but I suspect most of my friends would not give it much thought. There are a lot of different views in this world.

I suspect for some women, the issue is different. Some clearly wouldn't be bothered by a male identifying as female using the ladies' room. First they'd have to know that about the person. If it wasn't known, there'd be nothing to think about over it. But if it was known, some women might feel a little uncomfortable over it. And for many, the fact that those women's concerns are ignored get to the heart of the matter.

The transgender's comfort seems to be all that matters here. The feelings of others are ignored. It does seem that way to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: redleghunter
Upvote 0

Cute Tink

Blah
Supporter
Nov 22, 2002
19,570
4,624
✟102,861.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
The transgender's comfort seems to be all that matters here. The feelings of others are ignored. It does seem that way to me.

It may seem that way, but that's not what is happening. There is one side creating a hysteria through campaigns centered on the idea, not that trans people are going to hurt anyone, but that men are going to dress up as women, claim they are trans and use the bathroom as a way to gain access to vulnerable women. There are problems with that position: it hasn't materialized anywhere these laws are in place and men can already walk into the bathroom (and they do) without needing to dress up.

What gets missed in the discussion is that it can and is likely to lead to trans people being actually outed and harmed by facing either punishment for using the "wrong" bathroom or face injury for being obvious in the "right" bathroom.

But none of that matters to some people. All that seems to matter is what they think will happen, rather than looking at the fact that it doesn't happen.

I wouldn't mind having an honest discussion about a balance between things, provided both sides acknowledge reality. I won't hold my breath on that though. Sensational claims are more interesting and fear of the different ones is catchy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KitKatMatt
Upvote 0

Belk

Senior Member
Supporter
Dec 21, 2005
28,243
12,997
Seattle
✟895,643.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
I don't think the real issue for most people regarding trans males using the female restroom is that they might molest a female. I think some think that a male may take advantage of the policy. But I honestly don't think this is the real issue. Aside from the issue from a transgender's pov, there's the women in the bathroom and how their own comfort level might be jeopardized if they knew a person was a male but using the woman's facilities.

Personally if I'm in a restroom and a woman comes into the men's room, if it's not obvious she's a woman, how would I know? And if it is obvious, I wouldn't really care. I don't know how other men would feel but I suspect most of my friends would not give it much thought. There are a lot of different views in this world.

I suspect for some women, the issue is different. Some clearly wouldn't be bothered by a male identifying as female using the ladies' room. First they'd have to know that about the person. If it wasn't known, there'd be nothing to think about over it. But if it was known, some women might feel a little uncomfortable over it. And for many, the fact that those women's concerns are ignored get to the heart of the matter.

The transgender's comfort seems to be all that matters here. The feelings of others are ignored. It does seem that way to me.

If I as an atheist do not feel comfortable with you using the same restroom as I should I be able to have you excluded?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,368
15,457
✟1,099,338.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Just wanted to point out that, according to police records, there has never been a single case of restroom sexual assault related to allowing transfolk to use the restroom that best suits their identity.
Please give some proof for these statics.
 
Upvote 0

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,368
15,457
✟1,099,338.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If I as an atheist do not feel comfortable with you using the same restroom as I should I be able to have you excluded?
How would anyone identify you as an atheist or how would you identify someone else as not an atheist?
 
  • Like
Reactions: PapaZoom
Upvote 0

KitKatMatt

stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal
May 2, 2013
5,818
1,602
✟29,520.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
How would anyone identify you as an atheist or how would you identify someone else as not an atheist?

How would you identify the sex of people entering in restrooms?

I was born a female, but because of the way I dress and look I'm often mistaken for a young man. Is someone gonna be ready to ask me to drop my drawers just to check when I'm walking to the women's restroom?
 
Upvote 0

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,368
15,457
✟1,099,338.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I don't think the real issue for most people regarding trans males using the female restroom is that they might molest a female. I think some think that a male may take advantage of the policy. But I honestly don't think this is the real issue.
For me the issue is not the truly transgender person, it is that men who are not transgender will use that freedom to harm women and little girls.
Locker rooms and showers are even more of a concern than restrooms. Little girls do not need to be exposed to grown men's genitalia in their faces.
Right now there are little boys who have been raped by male adults in sports locker rooms, and we think it is OK to put little girls in the same danger? Just how far are we willing to go to accommodate a very tiny portion of our population?

I want transgender people to be safe too, but we have to come up with a better way to do this.
 
Upvote 0

Mayzoo

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2004
4,173
1,561
✟202,551.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
For everyright given to anyone, a right is taken away from someone. Our goal should be to assigns rights that ensure the most safety to the most people.

Fact: transgegender people are at risk of harm if the use a restroom opposite of how they appear/dress.

Fact: men intent on raping a woman in the restroom are already doing so. They are not waiting for transgender access laws as they are not law abiding citizens to begin with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cute Tink
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,368
15,457
✟1,099,338.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
How would you identify the sex of people entering in restrooms?
My point to @Belk is that who would know he is an atheist in order to harm him in some way because he is an atheist.

My concern is for women and girls coming to harm. They are easily identifiable are they not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: redleghunter
Upvote 0

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not in my experience. Seems to me the times I have used a locker room it was rather public as well.



I do not "hate on" prudish people.

Well Belk you make a good point. We are men have been to gyms and know how communal a men's locker room is. I served in the Army and at times well it's close quarters.

Difference is we all have the same "equipment. "

Women too all have the same "equipment."

I can see why women would not want the other team's equipment in their locker room.
 
Upvote 0

Uncle Siggy

Promulgator of Annoying Tidbits of Information
Dec 4, 2015
3,652
2,737
Ohio
✟61,528.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I'm sorry many of you don't consider rape serious. I value human life, & know the horrible physical & psychological endings that accompany rape victims.

They only care about themselves and their opinions... Now if the shoe was on the other foot and was a concern to them they would be saying how callous and uncaring the rest of us are...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As a woman, this terrifies me. This opens up so many more opportunities for rape :( I would not feel safe going into a bathroom alone, when men were allowed in there as well. My heart breaks, because I know many more women will also become victims of rape due to this. The separate bathrooms & locker rooms are partially for safety, & they've stripped that away. Also, allowing men in a woman's shelter?? Most women there are looking for refuge from a man. If there are men at the shelter as well, they will be full of fear. Many are scared of men because of abuse or rape. This is horrible :'( I would no longer feel safe running there.

2ndly, why are we getting rid of male/female. I believe in celebrating our differences. We are different for so many reasons, & it's amazing. Men & women's different uniforms celebrate the differences by accentuating those differences to be aesthetically pleasing! Men's uniform often celebrate their broad shoulders & masculine build, while women's uniforms accentuate the things that make women beautiful-our different body designs. I'm actually quite glad that I don't look like a man, and I'm glad that they make womens clothing different from mens. I would never look quite as pretty if I wore my Husband clothes, because they were made to make a man look better, not a woman.

3rd question... will the men on Broadway shows also now be wearing sparkly dresses & bikinis? No more women in dresses & men in suits & top hats? That's boring :(

Happy New Year's Eve everyone... I'm going to wear a dress & high heels tonight to celebrate my woman body.

Thanks for your most astute observations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uncle Siggy
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.