Young earth, old universe

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I've thought on this subject a great deal. Everything the Bible claims could have been done in a very short period of time if God utilized his full authority over all of the physics involved. What is becoming more interesting to me is how science continues to uncover more mysteries than it seems to solve. We still don't know what gravity is. We have theories of what the smallest particles in the universe are yet we are unable to adequately explain the force that holds it all together. Christians have been taught that all things are held together by Christ. All is all, right? Interesting to me that scientists have "discovered" another quantum particle they are calling the Higgs Boson. They playfully call it the "God Particle", because they believe it literally holds everything together at the quantum level. Another interesting fairly current theory is that everything is made from vibrating strings (string theory). I find this theory interesting because Christians know God "spoke" the universe into existence. We know the power of the spoken Word. A command spoken by God just may have brought things into existence by the vibration initiated by God speaking.

I love watching all of these shows about The Cosmos, The Universe, Through the Wormhole and Universe Explained. I can't help but chuckle a little each time a scientist puts forth a new theory of everything they wind up answering a few questions but there are always other things that seem to pop up that they simply cannot explain. When we all come to fully know God only then will we fully know our universe. We tend to think of the universe mostly as the planets, galaxies and stars but then we have newer things like "dark matter", "dark energy", "inflation" and then there's the super small, the quantum level of the universe and nothing there seems to play by the same rules that planets and stars do. All of these things are typical theories that attempt to explain what cannot be seen or understood. Why doesn't light escape from a black hole? What happens to matter that falls into a black hole? Does time exist in a black hole? Some seem to believe that at the edge of a black hole, time stops and if time and space are a fabric. Does space and matter disappear when time stops? Is time nothing more than a human perception. Some scientists theorize that all time exists right now just as the universe exists right now. I think most Christians believe that God exists outside of what we perceive as time. This is how God knows everything, he is everywhere and every when at every moment.

God put the evidence of himself in his creation. When the earth was "dated" to be 4.6 billion years old it was calculated by measuring what percentage of a piece uranium turned to lead. Scientists declared that uranium decays at a constant rate. Based on the rate of decay, a rock with uranium in it can be dated by calculating the lead content and then calculating how long it had to take for the uranium to decay down to that percentage of lead. Of course the assumption is that in the history of the universe, uranium has always decayed at exactly the same rate. I think it's a good theory but how can you verify that Uranium has decayed at the same rate since the beginning of time? Research now shows that many factors can affect the breakdown of Uranium into lead. My favorite pastor used to say "When I was in school they taught us that it's a fact the earth was 1 billion years old. Now they tell us it's a fact the earth is 4.6 billion years old… and it wasn't that long ago I went to school". Here's a link to an article about where Uranium comes from. You can see, there are many factors that can affect how fast Uranium turns into lead. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/N...nium-Resources/The-Cosmic-Origins-of-Uranium/

I think it was last year there was a lot of talk that the science of global warming is settled science. I believe there is no such thing as settled science, there is only God's will.
Hello Captiveheart.

You are touching on the very foundation of the great chasm between science and God's revelation.
Of course the assumption is that in the history of the universe, uranium has always decayed at exactly the same rate. I think it's a good theory but how can you verify that Uranium has decayed at the same rate since the beginning of time?
The many assumptions that mankind is forced to implement in the science of origins, i.e., the origin of mankind
and the universe. Tells us everything we need to know about the limitations of science. Science assumes that
there is no super natural intervention in these origins.

If God did initiate the universe and controlled the universe, then science ultimately, would not be able to understand
the origin of the universe. It would appear to science that the universe just suddenly appeared, hence, the Big Bang.

The Bible states that everything that exists, is super natural in origin, created by Jesus and for Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
theophilus40 says:
The age of the earth and the age of the universe are two separate subjects. Belief in a young earth and a young universe creates the problem of how we can see distant stars. Belief in an old earth and an old universe contradicts the plain teaching of the Bible. Belief in a young earth and an old universe presents no Biblical or scientific difficulties.

I have considered this possibility myself, and maybe we will get more evidence for it sometime. But I have also recently discovered that scientists methods for determining the distance of stars could be faulty. They could be basing their methods on faulty assumptions. I don't know enough about astronomy to explain it other than that they use the size or color of the redshift, and the theories about that could be wrong. So, if they are wrong perhaps the stars aren't as far away as they say.

Have you seen Starlight and Time by Russ Humphreys?

In a nutshell....the higher a gravitational field the slower time runs. The day God created the stars the earth was still in a high gravatational field compared to the rest of the universe. Time on "earth" (as it wasn't completely formed as of yet) ran much, much slower than time way out there in outer space. This would allow the star light to reach planet earth by day 6.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm not a big fan of Lawrence M. Krauss.
This was a press conference for the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. I am sure there were other reporters so you can read what they said about this rather recent breakthrough in Astrophysics.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Belief in an old earth and an old universe contradicts the plain teaching of the Bible. Belief in a young earth and an old universe presents no Biblical or scientific difficulties.

The description of creation week describes an old earth with dirt.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
...add up the linages back to Adam. So, yes the bible doesn't say exactly but the linages get up pretty close.

You can add lots of things together if you want.
There are way more than 10 commandments.

And "how old" was Adam when created?
How old was the dirt he toiled in?
How old is a habitable planet as genesis describes?
You need to add in those numbers.
 
Upvote 0

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The description of creation week describes an old earth with dirt.

So what? It also shows an Adam being 1 day old yet looking like a young adult that never had baby teeth. It's called the miracle of creation. You do believe in miracles? Yes?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
SkyWriting posted: You can add lots of things together if you want.
There are way more than 10 commandments.

And "how old" was Adam when created?

Can't say for sure...but we know Adam wasn't a baby. God told him to be fruitful and multiply so I would think Adam was mature. Perhaps Adam was 18? Maybe 25? I don't think there is any way of knowing for sure. My guess, 1 day old going on 18 years.

How old was the dirt he toiled in?

A couple of days old when Adam was formed from it.

How old is a habitable planet as genesis describes?

4 days old....I would say the sun would have been required to allow it to be habitable for human life.

You need to add in those numbers.

No problem. approx 6,000 years old plus a couple of days.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So what? It also shows an Adam being 1 day old yet looking like a young adult that never had baby teeth. It's called the miracle of creation. You do believe in miracles? Yes?

They all seem to have taken place outside of normal time.

Jesus changed water into wine (John 2:1-11). Jesus cured the nobleman's son (John 4:46-47). The great haul of fishes (Luke 5:1-11). Jesus cast out an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23-28). Jesus cured Peter's mother-in-law of a fever (Mark 1:30-31). Jesus healed a leper (Mark 1:40-45). Jesus healed the centurion's servant (Matthew 8:5-13). Jesus raised the widow's son from the dead (Luke 7:11-18). Jesus stilled the storm (Matthew 8:23-27). Jesus cured two demoniacs (Matthew 8:28-34). Jesus cured the paralytic (Matthew 9:1-8). Jesus raised the ruler's daughter from the dead (Matthew 9:18-26). Jesus cured a woman of an issue of blood (Luke 8:43-48). Jesus opened the eyes of two blind men (Matthew 9:27-31). Jesus loosened the tongue of a man who could not speak (Matthew 9:32-33). Jesus healed an invalid man at the pool called Bethesda (John 5:1-9). Jesus restored a withered hand (Matthew 12:10-13). Jesus cured a demon-possessed man (Matthew 12:22). Jesus fed at least five thousand people (Matthew 14:15-21). Jesus healed a woman of Canaan (Matthew 15:22-28). Jesus cured a deaf and mute man (Mark 7:31-37). Jesus fed at least four thousand people (Matthew 15:32-39). Jesus opened the eyes of a blind man (Mark 8:22-26). Jesus cured a boy who was plagued by a demon (Matthew 17:14-21). Jesus opened the eyes of a man born blind (John 9:1-38) Jesus cured a woman who had been afflicted eighteen years (Luke 13:10-17). Jesus cured a man of dropsy (Luke 14:1-4). Jesus cleansed ten lepers (Luke 17:11-19). Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:1-46). Jesus opened the eyes of two blind men (Matthew 20:30-34). Jesus caused the fig tree to wither (Matthew 21:18-22). Jesus restored the ear of the high priest's servant (Luke 22:50-51). Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:5-6). The second great haul of fishes (John 21:1-14).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

-57

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
8,699
1,957
✟70,048.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
They all seem to have taken place outside of normal time.

Jesus changed water into wine (John 2:1-11). Jesus cured the nobleman's son (John 4:46-47). The great haul of fishes (Luke 5:1-11). Jesus cast out an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23-28). Jesus cured Peter's mother-in-law of a fever (Mark 1:30-31). Jesus healed a leper (Mark 1:40-45). Jesus healed the centurion's servant (Matthew 8:5-13). Jesus raised the widow's son from the dead (Luke 7:11-18). Jesus stilled the storm (Matthew 8:23-27). Jesus cured two demoniacs (Matthew 8:28-34). Jesus cured the paralytic (Matthew 9:1-8). Jesus raised the ruler's daughter from the dead (Matthew 9:18-26). Jesus cured a woman of an issue of blood (Luke 8:43-48). Jesus opened the eyes of two blind men (Matthew 9:27-31). Jesus loosened the tongue of a man who could not speak (Matthew 9:32-33). Jesus healed an invalid man at the pool called Bethesda (John 5:1-9). Jesus restored a withered hand (Matthew 12:10-13). Jesus cured a demon-possessed man (Matthew 12:22). Jesus fed at least five thousand people (Matthew 14:15-21). Jesus healed a woman of Canaan (Matthew 15:22-28). Jesus cured a deaf and mute man (Mark 7:31-37). Jesus fed at least four thousand people (Matthew 15:32-39). Jesus opened the eyes of a blind man (Mark 8:22-26). Jesus cured a boy who was plagued by a demon (Matthew 17:14-21). Jesus opened the eyes of a man born blind (John 9:1-38) Jesus cured a woman who had been afflicted eighteen years (Luke 13:10-17). Jesus cured a man of dropsy (Luke 14:1-4). Jesus cleansed ten lepers (Luke 17:11-19). Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:1-46). Jesus opened the eyes of two blind men (Matthew 20:30-34). Jesus caused the fig tree to wither (Matthew 21:18-22). Jesus restored the ear of the high priest's servant (Luke 22:50-51). Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:5-6). The second great haul of fishes (John 21:1-14).

Do you have a chapter and verse that says they happened outside of time?
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0