Book of Enoch and the Books of Adam and Eve?

cgaviria · Dec 13, 2015

Has anyone read the Book of Enoch and the Books of Adam and Eve? Any thoughts on these books? By the Books of Adam and Eve, I am referring to the Vita Adae Et Evae, not the Apocalypse of Moses. I find these books to give a fascinating perspective on the origin of Demons and the origin of the fall of Satan and his angels.

Steve Petersen · Dec 13, 2015

Also the origins of immersion of repentance (which John the Baptist proclaimed.) This immersion is nowhere to be found in the Torah. There were many circumstances where the Law required immersion, but an immersion specifically as a sign of repentance is not evident there.

It is found in the Life of Adam and Eve (1st century BC to first century AD)
Adam immerses himself in the Jordan as a sign of his penance after being expelled from the Garden.

cgaviria · Dec 13, 2015

Steve Petersen said:
Also the origins of immersion of repentance (which John the Baptist proclaimed.) This immersion is nowhere to be found in the Torah. There were many circumstances where the Law required immersion, but an immersion specifically as a sign of repentance is not evident there.

It is found in the Life of Adam and Eve (1st century BC to first century AD)
Adam immerses himself in the Jordan as a sign of his penance after being expelled from the Garden.

I definitely agree with what you're saying on this matter of immersion as well. Do you believe this book should've been added to the canon?

Steve Petersen · Dec 13, 2015

cgaviria said:
I definitely agree with what you're saying on this matter of immersion as well. Do you believe this book should've been added to the canon?

No. But that doesn't minimize its value. Anything that can 'fill in the blank spaces on the map' of the history of Judaism and Christianity is important.

BelieveTheWord · Dec 13, 2015

I've read the book of Enoch. It is pretty obvious that Christians considered this Scripture in the 1st century. I haven't looked into Adam and Eve.

cgaviria · Dec 13, 2015

Steve Petersen said:
No. But that doesn't minimize its value. Anything that can 'fill in the blank spaces on the map' of the history of Judaism and Christianity is important.

I also agree that it shouldn't be considered canon because there have surfaced many different variations of the manuscript, so its very difficult to know which is the most accurate and which have been tampered with.

cgaviria · Dec 13, 2015

BelieveTheWord said:
I've read the book of Enoch. It is pretty obvious that Christians considered this Scripture in the 1st century. I haven't looked into Adam and Eve.

You should read it because the Book of Enoch gives insight to the origin of demons, but the Books of Adam and Even give insight to the origin of the fall of Satan. Here's a link if you're interested in reading. I'd like to hear your opinion if you end up reading it, https://books.google.com/books?id=h...&q=and went upwards to the sun-rising&f=false

Wgw · Dec 13, 2015

cgaviria said:
Has anyone read the Book of Enoch and the Books of Adam and Eve? Any thoughts on these books? By the Books of Adam and Eve, I am referring to the Vita Adae Et Evae, not the Apocalypse of Moses. I find these books to give a fascinating perspective on the origin of Demons and the origin of the fall of Satan and his angels.

The Ethiopoan Tewahedo Orthodox Church, which my church is in full communion with, regards 1 Enoch as canonical. You should ask @Gxg (G²) about it.

cgaviria · Dec 13, 2015

Wgw said:
The Ethiopoan Tewahedo Orthodox, which my chirch is in communion with, regards 1 Enoch as canonical. You should ask @Gxg (G²) about it.

Fascinating. So I presume that you consider it as canon as well?

Steve Petersen · Dec 13, 2015

Interesting. Most Christians believe there is only ONE canon. Theirs.

Wgw · Dec 13, 2015

cgaviria said:
Fascinating. So I presume that you consider it as canon as well?

It is not in the canon of the Syriac Orthodox Church, but we have no objections to the Ethiopian use of it.

YHWH's Lion · Dec 13, 2015

Wgw said:
It is not in the canon of the Syriac Orthodox Church, but we have no objections to the Ethiopian use of it.

what about Book of Jubilees? Also book of enoch, if it is scripture, does the Ethiopian Church follow the calendar that is given in it?

Wgw · Dec 13, 2015

YHWH's Lion said:
what about Book of Jubilees?

Yes, they have it.

Also book of enoch, if it is scripture, does the Ethiopian Church follow the calendar that is given in it?

I wish I knew, but much about the Ethiopian Church is obscure.

Wangsamax · Dec 13, 2015

Christians took the old testament from the jews. The book of enoch, jubilee and others are not canon of the jews.
I think it's not appropriate for christians change the canon of the old testament.
In my opinion the old brother has their own reasons why those books doesnt included in canon.

Wgw · Dec 13, 2015

Wangsamax said:
Christians took the old testament from the jews. The book of enoch, jubilee and others are not canon of the jews.

They were written by Jews and used by Jews. If memory serves the Beta Israel, the Jews of Ethiopia, still use them. The narrow canon of the Masoretic Text is the result of Rabinnical decision-making; it is the product of Pharisaical ideas.

I think it's not appropriate for christians change the canon of the old testament.

One cannot coherently argue that we changed anything, given that these were Jewish scriptures used by Jews before the birth of Christ.

In my opinion the old brother has their own reasons why those books doesnt included in canon.

The opinions of Rabinnical and Karaite Judaism are not invariably consistent with the various schools of Second Temple Judaism.

Wangsamax · Dec 13, 2015

Wgw said:
They were written by Jews and used by Jews. If memory serves the Beta Israel, the Jews of Ethiopia, still use them. The narrow canon of the Masoretic Text is the result of Rabinnical decision-making; it is the product of Pharisaical ideas.

One cannot coherently argue that we changed anything, given that these were Jewish scriptures used by Jews before the birth of Christ.

The opinions of Rabinnical and Karaite Judaism are not invariably consistent with the various schools of Second Temple Judaism.

They are written by jews and used by jews. Maybe some of the jews still use it today or some jews cult make them as their canon. But not make them jews canon.
Our old testament canon today used by JC and His followers, they didn't use those books nor make them canon.
And those books have nothing significant to our faith, except for additional knowledge to who wants to know as the name of cain's wife. Is that really matter so it must put in the canon? For christians?

Wgw · Dec 13, 2015

Wangsamax said:
They are written by jews and used by jews. Maybe some of the jews still use it today or some jews cult make them as their canon.

It would be entirely wrong to call the Ethiopian Jews a "cult."

But not make them jews canon.

Therr are multiple "canons." While most Jews today use the Masoretic text, in the time of our Lord a great many spoke Greek primarily and used the Septuagint. Early Christians for that matter rejected in some cases books included in the Masoretic and Septuagint canons. Then you have the Ethiopic canon, the Syriac Peshitta canon and so on.

Our old testament canon today used by JC and His followers, they didn't use those books nor make them canon.

St. Jude did; he quotes 1 Enoch in his epistle.

And those books have nothing significant to our faith, except for additional knowledge to who wants to know as the name of cain's wife. Is that really matter so it must put in the canon? For christians?

That's a subjective opinion. Enoch is not in the Peshitta, the bible of the Syriac Orthodox, but the Ethiopians, who we are in communion with, use it, and we apparently have no problems with that. Nor apparently did St. Jude.

Wangsamax · Dec 13, 2015

Wgw said:
It would be entirely wrong to call the Ethiopian Jews a "cult."

Therr are multiple "canons." While most Jews today use the Masoretic text, in the time of our Lord a great many spoke Greek primarily and used the Septuagint. Early Christians for that matter rejected in some cases books included in the Masoretic and Septuagint canons. Then you have the Ethiopic canon, the Syriac Peshitta canon and so on.

St. Jude did; he quotes 1 Enoch in his epistle.

That's a subjective opinion. Enoch is not in the Peshitta, the bible of the Syriac Orthodox, but the Ethiopians, who we are in communion with, use it, and we apparently have no problems with that. Nor apparently did St. Jude.

I'm sorry for using the word cult. English is not my first language, i dont know what is the right word, stream or denomination maybe?

Both MT and LXX accepted by all christian denominations. The difference is just for translating reference.

Different with book of enoch that is consider as canon not by all jews.

I am not saying that the book of enoch is wrong or something.
I'm saying that it can be consider as additional book, not as canon.

Maybe you can get the idea by searching the reason why the book of macabee, tobit etc not accepted by non catholic chistians as canon.

Wgw · Dec 13, 2015

Wangsamax said:
I'm sorry for using the word cult. English is not my first language, i dont know what is the right word, stream or denomination maybe?

Both MT and LXX accepted by all christian denominations. The difference is just for translating reference.

Different with book of enoch that is consider as canon not by all jews.

I am not saying that the book of enoch is wrong or something.
I'm saying that it can be consider as additional book, not as canon.

Maybe you can get the idea by searching the reason why the book of macabee, tobit etc not accepted by non catholic chistians as canon.

The LXX contains verses, chapters and books not in the MT, like Tobit. The two largest "denominations", the Orthodox and Roman Catholics, accept these deuterocanonical books. The Ethiopian Church for that matter is one of the oldest, and it accepts Enoch, and has for as long as anyone can remember; we are talking about a church founded in the fourth century.

What is more, we are also not talking about Gnostic apocrypha dug up from the sands of the Egyptian desert, but books which have been continually used by Christians from the beginning, for example, by St. Jude in the case of 1 Enoch.

Book of Enoch and the Books of Adam and Eve?

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