Matthew, Luke, the birth of Jesus and Josephus

Damian79

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Hi I am relatively new here in the amount of post i make. But i wanted a discussion on this subject:

Who made the mistake in terms of the timing of Jesus's birth?


This is the nativity story according to Matthew 1:18-2:23:

An angel appears to Joseph to reassure him, and so he marries Mary.
Jesus is born in Bethlehem.
Perhaps two years later (or perhaps not), wise men see his star. They come and inform Herod.
The wise men - bringing gifts - find Jesus in Bethlehem.
Warned in a dream, Joseph and family flee from Bethlehem to Egypt.
Herod commences the massacre of the infants.
Herod dies. Informed in a dream of Herod's death, Joseph takes the family back.
But he is afraid to go to Judea, and so makes his home in Nazareth, Galilee.


This is the nativity story according to Luke 2:

A census requires Joseph and Mary to go from their home in Nazareth to Bethlehem.
Jesus is born in Bethlehem.
There is "no room in the inn"; Mary places Jesus in a manger.
Nearby shepherds are told of these events by angels.
The shepherds visit the family.
After about a month or so, Jesus is taken to temple in Jerusalem.
There, Simeon and Anna praise Jesus.
Soon after, Joseph and Mary return to their home in Nazareth.


Traditional answer:
Lukes version is 1 or 2 years before Matthews around 5 bc
The Nativity Stories Harmonized


Problem:
The census of Quirinius is dated 6 AD more than 10 years after that:
Census of Quirinius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Possible solutions:
The Josephus's account of Quirinius is faulty:
http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/54/54-1/JETS_54-1_65-87_Rhoads.pdf

The wording of Luke may mean there was a census before Quirinius.
Once More: Quirinius's Census



What do you think is the answer? That the nativity were just fables? Josephus made errors? A census not mentioned by historians?
 

Mark51

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The popular date of December 25 as the day of Jesus’ birth therefore has no basis in Scripture. As many reference works show, it stems from a pagan holiday. Regarding the origin for the celebration of the day December 25, the Jesuit scholar Urbanus Holzmeister wrote:

“Today it is commonly admitted that the occasion for the celebration of the day December 25 was the festival that the pagans were celebrating on this day. Petavius [French Jesuit scholar, 1583-1652] already has rightly observed that on December 25 was celebrated ‘the birthday of the unconquered sun.’

“Witnesses for this festival are: (a) The Calendar of Furius Dionysius Filocalus, composed in the year 354 [C.E.], in which it is noted: ‘December 25, the B(irthday) of the unconquered (Sun).’ (b) The calendar of astrologer Antiochus (composed about 200 [C.E.]): ‘Month of December . . . 25 . . . The birthday of the Sun; daylight increases.’ (c) Caesar Julian [Julian the Apostate, emperor 361-363 C.E.] recommended the games that were celebrated at the end of the year in honor of the sun, which was called ‘the unconquered sun.’”—Chronologia vitae Christi (Chronology of the Life of Christ), Pontificium Institutum Biblicum, Rome, 1933, p. 46.

Perhaps the most obvious evidence of the incorrectness of the December 25 date is the Scriptural fact that shepherds were in the fields tending their flocks on the night of Jesus’ birth. (Luke 2:8, 12) Already by the autumn month of Bul (October-November) the rainy season was starting (Deuteronomy 11:14), and flocks were brought into protected shelters at night. The next month, Chislev (the ninth month of the Jewish calendar, November-December), was a month of cold and rain (Jeremiah 36:22; Ezra 10:9, 13), and Tebeth (December-January) saw the lowest temperatures of the year, with occasional snows in the highlands area. The presence of shepherds in the fields at night therefore harmonizes with the evidence pointing to the early autumn month of Ethanim as the time of Jesus’ birth.

Also weighing against a December date is that it would be most unlikely for the Roman emperor to choose such a wintry, rainy month as the time for his Jewish subjects (often rebellious) to travel “each one to his own city” to be registered.—Luke 2:1-3; compare Matthew 24:20.

Furthermore, the death of Jesus Christ took place in the spring, on the Passover Day, Nisan (or Abib) 14, according to the Jewish calendar. (Matthew 26:2; John 13:1-3; Exodus 12:1-6; 13:4) That year the Passover occurred on the sixth day of the week (counted by the Jews as from sundown on Thursday to sundown on Friday). This is evident from John 19:31, which shows that the following day was “a great” sabbath. The day after Passover was always a sabbath, no matter on what day of the week it came. (Leviticus 23:5-7) But when this special Sabbath coincided with the regular Sabbath (the seventh day of the week), it became “a great one.” So Jesus’ death took place on Friday, Nisan 14, by about 3:00 p.m.-Luke 23:44-46.

Summing up, then, since Jesus’ death took place in the spring month of Nisan, his ministry, which began three and a half years earlier according to Daniel 9:24-27, must have begun in the fall, about the month of Ethanim (September-October). John’s ministry (initiated in Tiberius’ 15th year), then, must have begun in the spring of the year 29 C.E. John’s birth therefore would be placed in the spring of the year 2 B.C.E., Jesus’ birth would come about six months later in the fall of 2 B.C.E., his ministry would start about 30 years later in the fall of 29 C.E., and his death would come in the year 33 C.E. (on Nisan 14 in the spring, as stated).
 
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