Why this Christian GOP member is changing

RedPonyDriver · Dec 3, 2015

I found this quite interesting:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...y-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives

From the article:
"It is difficult to define a whole school of political ideology precisely, but one may reasonably define liberalism (as opposed to conservatism) in the contemporary United States as the genuine concern for the welfare of genetically unrelated others and the willingness to contribute larger proportions of private resources for the welfare of such others. In the modern political and economic context, this willingness usually translates into paying higher proportions of individual incomes in taxes toward the government and its social welfare programs. Liberals usually support such social welfare programs and higher taxes to finance them, and conservatives usually oppose them."

To this liberal, the definition above is quite fair and realistic. Let's leave abortion out of this and stick to the definition bolded above.

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

RedPonyDriver said:
I would say the Republicans are "Christians"...they practice some interesting mish-mash of Christianity mixed with rabid "patriotism" and covered with a healthy dose of "I can be bought if the price is right

While the Republicans claim to be true believers they actually eschew the moral teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.Beginning in the '50s, Christianity began to infiltrate American politics -- in 1954 the phrase "under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance. Thirty years later, during the Reagan presidency, Republicans rebranded as the "Christian Party" and labeled Democrats the Party of secular socialism.

I was born in America, and I was born an American citizen, and I will always be an American, but, when I got converted, my Allegiance, my loyalty, and my Citizenship, was given over to God, and I am now a pilgrim, passing through this life, on my way home to Heaven, not America. In Hebrews 13:13-14, the Bible states, “Let us go forth therefore unto him without (outside) the camp, (the camp of religion, the world, the flesh, and the devil), bearing his reproach. For here have we no continuing city (might we also say country), but we seek one to come.”

(from a Baptist pastor)
Jesus talked endlessly of things like “having life,” “bearing fruit,” “forgiving,” and even “turning the other cheek.” Never did he seek political solutions to problems. Never did he seek foreign policy solutions. And never did he tell people that soldiers purchased freedom for them.

I bring all of this up because I have watched the churches of America spin in a very “un-Jesus” direction . Granted, there have always been un-Jesus things in Christian churches, but this movement has been quick, broad, and propelled by state influence.

American sporting events now begin with what are, essentially, worship services. God blessing America and the honor of the US military are mixed together, with swelling music, the singing of anthems, hands held over hearts, roaring airplanes, and more.

The wounded soldier has become a new type of martyr.

Soldiers in general have become the new missionaries, going to far-away, dangerous lands to spread “freedom,” which has become a compliment or replacement for the gospel.

Church services are now filled with state imagery. Flags are proudly displayed and politicians are prayed for.

Veteran’s Day, Memorial Day, and the 4th of July and have become holy days, complete with military guest speakers and ceremonies to praise soldiers.

Local boys and girls who enlist in the military are praised from the pulpit.

“Christ died for our sins and soldiers die for our freedoms” is now a widely accepted belief… the kind of thing people say “amen” to and feel righteous about.

Again, none of these are “Jesus things.” Changes like this have occurred in the past, but not in any periods we’d want to emulate.

The Grave Consequences

War is not our friend. It is not uplifting. It is not enlightening. And while most of us will maintain our right to self-defense, no one with any experience believes that killing other humans makes us better.

So, let me begin at home, with the Americans who bear the most acute consequences: the soldiers.

There are reasons why a thousand vets per month attempt suicide, and the endless adulation they receive is not helping. These soldiers know that they’re not saints. Many of them are horribly damaged from their “service.” A large number of them have nightmares about the people they killed.

The ideology that swirls around this is simply false: Killing people is not uplifting; it is damaging. American boys and girls are not coming home better than they were; they’re coming home worse. And they, most of all, know this about themselves.

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

RedPonyDriver said:
I found this quite interesting:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...y-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives

From the article:
"It is difficult to define a whole school of political ideology precisely, but one may reasonably define liberalism (as opposed to conservatism) in the contemporary United States as the genuine concern for the welfare of genetically unrelated others and the willingness to contribute larger proportions of private resources for the welfare of such others. In the modern political and economic context, this willingness usually translates into paying higher proportions of individual incomes in taxes toward the government and its social welfare programs. Liberals usually support such social welfare programs and higher taxes to finance them, and conservatives usually oppose them."

To this liberal, the definition above is quite fair and realistic. Let's leave abortion out of this and stick to the definition bolded above.

I agree with what was said. I don't think however (in title of the link) that intelligence is playing a part because in my own experience, the 2 most intelligent men I personally know (both having many college degrees and high IQs) are opposites politically.
Every conservative that I know.. personally.. is educated and intelligent but.. they are close minded. They are not willing to see what the other side is really saying. I was the same way. Why? I don't know! All I can think is that the Lord opened my eyes when I started doubting all I had ever believed politically which started to clash with the bible. No person influenced me.. I just started noticing discrepancies and instead of squelching them I started investigating.
I did notice that the very intelligent 'liberal' was open to hear my thoughts as a conservative but now, the conservatives want no part of me.. total rejection without being allowed to express my thoughts. Family and friends alike.. as soon as I expressed some discontent with GOP I was banned.

But back to your topic, I don't think it is even debatable that 'liberals' are more liberal with their money in helping others.
(I am conservative spiritually but more liberal politically)

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

redleghunter said:
Support the children the GOP wants born? It takes two to tango and that does not include Dem and Republican. Two adults have sexual relations and are somehow surprised they may be pregnant? The GOP is at fault?

Of course no one thinks that! We are talking about NEEDY ones being cared for after they are born.

Yes. I gave you NT scriptures. Do not murder. It was in blue bold.

What about all the many many scriptures saying to help the poor including
When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;…

Before we continue I would like to know if you hold the belief that the Holy Scriptures are inerrant and Divinely inspired?

Before we continue I would like to know if you hold the belief that the Holy Scriptures are inerrant and Divinely inspired?

I can't speak for the one you were addressing but I certainly believe that

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

RedPonyDriver said:
[W]hat galvanized the Christian community was not abortion, school prayer, or the ERA [Equal Rights Amendment]. I am living witness to that because I was trying to get those people interested in those issues and I utterly failed. What changed their minds was Jimmy Carter’s intervention against the Christian schools, trying to deny them tax-exempt status on the basis of so-called de facto segregation.

Yep. I was there and that is true. Everything was a mess back then with the busing and christian schools were popping up everywhere

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

redleghunter said:
The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles

The Didache

(1st Century AD)

The Lord's Teaching to the Heathen by the Twelve Apostles:

1.

That is not in the Bible. Thou shalt not kill is in the Bible
and this:
I especially like the last one

So.. which 'issue' do you think the Lord talked about the most? (remember, I am against abortion also)

OT verses:

"Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan." Exodus 22:22
"Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits." Exodus 23:6
"During the seventh year, let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove." Exodus 23:11
"Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:10
"Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly." Leviticus 19:15
"When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 23:22
"If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave." Leviticus 25:25, 35, 39
"If an alien or a temporary resident among you becomes rich and one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells himself to the alien living among you or to a member of the alien's clan, he retains the right of redemption." Leviticus 25:47-48
"He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing." Deuteronomy 10:18
"At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied." Deuteronomy 14:28-29
"However, there should be no poor among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you." Deuteronomy 15:4
"If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother." Deuteronomy 15:7
"Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near, so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the LORD against you, and you will be found guilty of sin." Deuteronomy 15:9
"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land." Deuteronomy 15:11
"Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns." Deuteronomy 24:14
"Do not deprive the alien or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge." Deuteronomy 24:17
"When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. When you beat the olives from your trees, do not go over the branches a second time. Leave what remains for the alien, the fatherless and the widow. When you harvest the grapes in your vineyard, do not go over the vines again. Leave what remains for the alien, the fatherless and the widow." Deuteronomy 24:19-21
"'Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the fatherless or the widow.' Then all the people shall say, Amen!'" Deuteronomy 27:19
"He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor." 1 Samuel 2:8
"as the time when the Jews got relief from their enemies, and as the month when their sorrow was turned into joy and their mourning into a day of celebration. He wrote them to observe the days as days of feasting and joy and giving presents of food to one another and gifts to the poor." Esther 9:22
"When daylight is gone, the murderer rises up and kills the poor and needy; in the night he steals forth like a thief." Job 24:14
"because I rescued the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to assist him." Job 29:12
"Have I not wept for those in trouble? Has not my soul grieved for the poor?" Job 30:25
"If I have denied the desires of the poor or let the eyes of the widow grow weary." Job 31:16
"The LORD is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble." Psalm 9:9
"But the needy will not always be forgotten, nor the hope of the afflicted ever perish." Psalm 9:18
" Because of the oppression of the weak and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise, says the LORD, I will protect them from those who malign them. " Psalm 12:5
"You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the LORD is their refuge." Psalm 14:6
"This poor man called, and the LORD heard him; he saved him out of all his troubles." Psalm 34:6
"My whole being will exclaim, Who is like you, 0 LORD? You rescue the poor from those too strong for them, the poor and needy from those who rob them.'" Psalm 35:10
"The wicked draw the sword and bend the bow to bring down the poor and needy, to slay those whose ways are upright." Psalm 37:14
"Yet I am poor and needy; may the Lord think of me. You are my help and my deliverer; O my God, do not delay." Psalm 40:17
"A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling." Psalm 68:5
"Your people settled in it, and from your bounty, 0 God, you provided for the poor." Psalm 68:10
"The poor will see and be glad — you who seek God, may your hearts live! The LORD hears the needy and does not despise his captive people." Psalm 69:32-33
"Yet I am poor and needy; come quickly to me, O God. You are my help and my deliverer; O LORD , do not delay." Psalm 70:5
"He will defend the afflicted among the people and save the children of the needy; he will crush the oppressor." Psalm 72:4
"For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death." Psalm 72:12-13
"Do not let the oppressed retreat in disgrace; may the poor and needy praise your name." Psalm 74:21
"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." Psalm 82:3-4
"But he lifted the needy out of their affliction and increased their families like flocks." Psalm 107:41
"For he stands at the right hand of the needy one, to save his life from those who condemn him." Psalm 109:31
"He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor, his righteousness endures forever; his horn will be lifted high in honor." Psalm 112:9
"He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap;" Psalm 113:7
"I will bless her with abundant provisions; her poor will I satisfy with food." Psalm 132:15
"I know that the LORD secures justice for the poor and upholds the cause of the needy." Psalm 140:12
"He upholds the cause of the oppressed and gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets prisoners free" Psalm 146:7
"The LORD watches over the alien and sustains the fatherless and the widow, but he frustrates the ways of the wicked." Psalm 146:9
"I know that the LORD secures justice for the poor and upholds the cause of the needy." Proverbs 13:23
"He who despises his neighbor sins, but blessed is he who is kind to the needy." Proverbs 14:21
"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." Proverbs 14:31
"The LORD tears down the proud man's house but he keeps the widow's boundaries intact." Proverbs 15:25
"Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud." Proverbs 16:19
"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished." Proverbs 17:5
"He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done." Proverbs 19:17
"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." Proverbs 21:13
"A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor." Proverbs 22:9
"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich — both come to poverty." Proverbs 22:16
"Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court." Proverbs 22:22
"A ruler who oppresses the poor is like a driving rain that leaves no crops." Proverbs 28:3
"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses." Proverbs 28:27
"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." Proverbs 29:7
"those whose teeth are swords and whose jaws are set with knives to devour the poor from the earth, the needy from among mankind." Proverbs 30:14
"Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:9
"She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy." Proverbs 31:20
"If you see the poor oppressed in a district, and justice and rights denied, do not be surprised at such things; for one official is eyed by a higher one, and over them both are others higher still." Ecclesiastes 5:8
"Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow." Isaiah 1:17
"The LORD enters into judgment against the elders and leaders of his people: It is you who have ruined my vineyard; the plunder from the poor is in your houses. What do you mean by crushing my people and grinding the faces of the poor?' declares the Lord, the LORD Almighty." Isaiah 3:14-15
"to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless." Isaiah 10:2
"With righteousness he will judge the needy; with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked." Isaiah 11:4
"The poorest of the poor will find pasture, and the needy will lie down in safety. But your root I will destroy by famine; it will slay your survivors." Isaiah 14:30
"You have been a refuge for the poor, a refuge for the needy in his distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat. For the breath of the ruthless is like a storm driving against a wall." Isaiah 25:4
"Once more the humble will rejoice in the LORD ; the needy will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel." Isaiah 29:19
"The scoundrel's methods are wicked, he makes up evil schemes to destroy the poor with lies, even when the plea of the needy is just." Isaiah 32:7
"The poor and needy search for water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. But I the LORD will answer them; I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them." Isaiah 41:17
"Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?" Isaiah 58:6-7
"If you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday." Isaiah 58:10
"The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners." Isaiah 61:1
"On your clothes men find the lifeblood of the innocent poor, though you did not catch them breaking in. Yet in spite of all this you say I am innocent.'" Jeremiah 2:34
"I thought, These are only the poor; they are foolish, for they do not know the way of the LORD, the requirements of their God.'" Jeremiah 5:4
"(They) have grown fat and sleek. Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor." Jeremiah 5:28
"if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm," Jeremiah 7:6
"This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place." Jeremiah 22:3
"'He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD." Jeremiah 22:16
"Sing to the LORD! Give praise to the LORD! He rescues the life of the needy from the hands of the wicked." Jeremiah 20:13
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." Ezekiel 16:49
"He does not oppress anyone, but returns what he took in pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked." Ezekiel 18:7
"The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice." Ezekiel 22:29
"This is what the LORD says: For three sins of Israel, even for four, I will not turn back [my wrath]. They sell the righteous for silver, and the needy for a pair of sandals. They trample on the heads of the poor as upon the dust of the ground and deny justice to the oppressed. Father and son use the same girl and so profane my holy name.'" Amos 2:6-7
"Hear this word, you cows of Bashan on Mount Samaria, you women who oppress the poor and crush the needy and say to your husbands, Bring us some drinks!'" Amos 4:1
"Hear this, you who trample the needy and do away with the poor of the land." Amos 8:4
"Buying the poor with silver and the needy for a pair of sandals, selling even the sweepings with the wheat." Amos 8:6
"Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. In your hearts do not think evil of each other." Zechariah 7:10
" So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me,' says the LORD Almighty." Malachi 3:5

New Testament passages

"Jesus answered, If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" Matthew 19:21
"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35
"They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely." Mark 12:40
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed." Luke 4:18
"So he replied to the messengers, Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.'" Luke 7:22 [ E-book: The Kingdom strikes back ]
"Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys." Luke 12:33
"But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind." Luke 14:13
"When Jesus heard this, he said to him, You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" Luke 18:22
"Beware of the teachers of the law . . . They devour your widows' houses . . . Such men will be punished severely." Luke 20:46-47
"'Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages.' He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it." John 12:5
"In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor." Acts 9:36
"Cornelius stared at him in fear. What is it, Lord?' he asked. The angel answered, Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.'" Acts 10:4
"After an absence of several years, I came to Jerusalem to bring my people gifts for the poor and to present offerings." Acts 24:17
"On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'" Romans 12:20
"For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem." Romans 15:26
"All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do." Galatians 2:10
"Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need." 1 Timothy 5:3
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:27
"Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, 'Here's a good seat for you,' but say to the poor man, 'You stand there' or 'Sit on the floor by my feet,' have you not discriminated among yourselves and becomes judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom He promised those who love Him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?" James 2:2-6
"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18

Aelred of Rievaulx · Dec 3, 2015

Mary7 said:
That is not in the Bible. Thou shalt not kill is in the Bible
and this:
I especially like the last one

So.. which 'issue' do you think the Lord talked about the most? (remember, I am against abortion also)

OT verses:

"Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan." Exodus 22:22

"Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits." Exodus 23:6

"During the seventh year, let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove." Exodus 23:11

"Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:10

"Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly." Leviticus 19:15

"When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 23:22

"If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave." Leviticus 25:25, 35, 39

"If an alien or a temporary resident among you becomes rich and one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells himself to the alien living among you or to a member of the alien's clan, he retains the right of redemption." Leviticus 25:47-48

"He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing." Deuteronomy 10:18

"At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied." Deuteronomy 14:28-29

"However, there should be no poor among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you." Deuteronomy 15:4

"If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother." Deuteronomy 15:7

"Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near, so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the LORD against you, and you will be found guilty of sin." Deuteronomy 15:9

"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land." Deuteronomy 15:11

"Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns." Deuteronomy 24:14

"Do not deprive the alien or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge." Deuteronomy 24:17

"When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. When you beat the olives from your trees, do not go over the branches a second time. Leave what remains for the alien, the fatherless and the widow. When you harvest the grapes in your vineyard, do not go over the vines again. Leave what remains for the alien, the fatherless and the widow." Deuteronomy 24:19-21

"'Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the fatherless or the widow.' Then all the people shall say, Amen!'" Deuteronomy 27:19

"He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor." 1 Samuel 2:8

"as the time when the Jews got relief from their enemies, and as the month when their sorrow was turned into joy and their mourning into a day of celebration. He wrote them to observe the days as days of feasting and joy and giving presents of food to one another and gifts to the poor." Esther 9:22

"When daylight is gone, the murderer rises up and kills the poor and needy; in the night he steals forth like a thief." Job 24:14

"because I rescued the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to assist him." Job 29:12

"Have I not wept for those in trouble? Has not my soul grieved for the poor?" Job 30:25

"If I have denied the desires of the poor or let the eyes of the widow grow weary." Job 31:16

"The LORD is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble." Psalm 9:9

"But the needy will not always be forgotten, nor the hope of the afflicted ever perish." Psalm 9:18

" Because of the oppression of the weak and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise, says the LORD, I will protect them from those who malign them. " Psalm 12:5

"You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the LORD is their refuge." Psalm 14:6

"This poor man called, and the LORD heard him; he saved him out of all his troubles." Psalm 34:6

"My whole being will exclaim, Who is like you, 0 LORD? You rescue the poor from those too strong for them, the poor and needy from those who rob them.'" Psalm 35:10

"The wicked draw the sword and bend the bow to bring down the poor and needy, to slay those whose ways are upright." Psalm 37:14

"Yet I am poor and needy; may the Lord think of me. You are my help and my deliverer; O my God, do not delay." Psalm 40:17

"A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling." Psalm 68:5

"Your people settled in it, and from your bounty, 0 God, you provided for the poor." Psalm 68:10

"The poor will see and be glad — you who seek God, may your hearts live! The LORD hears the needy and does not despise his captive people." Psalm 69:32-33

"Yet I am poor and needy; come quickly to me, O God. You are my help and my deliverer; O LORD , do not delay." Psalm 70:5

"He will defend the afflicted among the people and save the children of the needy; he will crush the oppressor." Psalm 72:4

"For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death." Psalm 72:12-13

"Do not let the oppressed retreat in disgrace; may the poor and needy praise your name." Psalm 74:21

"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." Psalm 82:3-4

"But he lifted the needy out of their affliction and increased their families like flocks." Psalm 107:41

"For he stands at the right hand of the needy one, to save his life from those who condemn him." Psalm 109:31

"He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor, his righteousness endures forever; his horn will be lifted high in honor." Psalm 112:9

"He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap;" Psalm 113:7

"I will bless her with abundant provisions; her poor will I satisfy with food." Psalm 132:15

"I know that the LORD secures justice for the poor and upholds the cause of the needy." Psalm 140:12

"He upholds the cause of the oppressed and gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets prisoners free" Psalm 146:7

"The LORD watches over the alien and sustains the fatherless and the widow, but he frustrates the ways of the wicked." Psalm 146:9

"I know that the LORD secures justice for the poor and upholds the cause of the needy." Proverbs 13:23

"He who despises his neighbor sins, but blessed is he who is kind to the needy." Proverbs 14:21

"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." Proverbs 14:31

"The LORD tears down the proud man's house but he keeps the widow's boundaries intact." Proverbs 15:25

"Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud." Proverbs 16:19

"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished." Proverbs 17:5

"He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done." Proverbs 19:17

"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." Proverbs 21:13

"A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor." Proverbs 22:9

"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich — both come to poverty." Proverbs 22:16

"Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court." Proverbs 22:22

"A ruler who oppresses the poor is like a driving rain that leaves no crops." Proverbs 28:3

"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses." Proverbs 28:27

"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." Proverbs 29:7

"those whose teeth are swords and whose jaws are set with knives to devour the poor from the earth, the needy from among mankind." Proverbs 30:14

"Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:9

"She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy." Proverbs 31:20

"If you see the poor oppressed in a district, and justice and rights denied, do not be surprised at such things; for one official is eyed by a higher one, and over them both are others higher still." Ecclesiastes 5:8

"Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow." Isaiah 1:17

"The LORD enters into judgment against the elders and leaders of his people: It is you who have ruined my vineyard; the plunder from the poor is in your houses. What do you mean by crushing my people and grinding the faces of the poor?' declares the Lord, the LORD Almighty." Isaiah 3:14-15

"to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless." Isaiah 10:2

"With righteousness he will judge the needy; with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked." Isaiah 11:4

"The poorest of the poor will find pasture, and the needy will lie down in safety. But your root I will destroy by famine; it will slay your survivors." Isaiah 14:30

"You have been a refuge for the poor, a refuge for the needy in his distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat. For the breath of the ruthless is like a storm driving against a wall." Isaiah 25:4

"Once more the humble will rejoice in the LORD ; the needy will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel." Isaiah 29:19

"The scoundrel's methods are wicked, he makes up evil schemes to destroy the poor with lies, even when the plea of the needy is just." Isaiah 32:7

"The poor and needy search for water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. But I the LORD will answer them; I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them." Isaiah 41:17

"Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?" Isaiah 58:6-7

"If you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday." Isaiah 58:10

"The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners." Isaiah 61:1

"On your clothes men find the lifeblood of the innocent poor, though you did not catch them breaking in. Yet in spite of all this you say I am innocent.'" Jeremiah 2:34

"I thought, These are only the poor; they are foolish, for they do not know the way of the LORD, the requirements of their God.'" Jeremiah 5:4

"(They) have grown fat and sleek. Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor." Jeremiah 5:28

"if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm," Jeremiah 7:6

"This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place." Jeremiah 22:3

"'He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD." Jeremiah 22:16

"Sing to the LORD! Give praise to the LORD! He rescues the life of the needy from the hands of the wicked." Jeremiah 20:13

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." Ezekiel 16:49

"He does not oppress anyone, but returns what he took in pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked." Ezekiel 18:7

"The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice." Ezekiel 22:29

"This is what the LORD says: For three sins of Israel, even for four, I will not turn back [my wrath]. They sell the righteous for silver, and the needy for a pair of sandals. They trample on the heads of the poor as upon the dust of the ground and deny justice to the oppressed. Father and son use the same girl and so profane my holy name.'" Amos 2:6-7

"Hear this word, you cows of Bashan on Mount Samaria, you women who oppress the poor and crush the needy and say to your husbands, Bring us some drinks!'" Amos 4:1

"Hear this, you who trample the needy and do away with the poor of the land." Amos 8:4

"Buying the poor with silver and the needy for a pair of sandals, selling even the sweepings with the wheat." Amos 8:6

"Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. In your hearts do not think evil of each other." Zechariah 7:10

" So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me,' says the LORD Almighty." Malachi 3:5

New Testament passages

"Jesus answered, If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" Matthew 19:21

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35

"They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely." Mark 12:40

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed." Luke 4:18

"So he replied to the messengers, Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.'" Luke 7:22 [ E-book: The Kingdom strikes back ]

"Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys." Luke 12:33

"But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind." Luke 14:13

"When Jesus heard this, he said to him, You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" Luke 18:22

"Beware of the teachers of the law . . . They devour your widows' houses . . . Such men will be punished severely." Luke 20:46-47

"'Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages.' He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it." John 12:5

"In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor." Acts 9:36

"Cornelius stared at him in fear. What is it, Lord?' he asked. The angel answered, Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.'" Acts 10:4

"After an absence of several years, I came to Jerusalem to bring my people gifts for the poor and to present offerings." Acts 24:17

"On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'" Romans 12:20

"For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem." Romans 15:26

"All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do." Galatians 2:10

"Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need." 1 Timothy 5:3

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:27

"Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, 'Here's a good seat for you,' but say to the poor man, 'You stand there' or 'Sit on the floor by my feet,' have you not discriminated among yourselves and becomes judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom He promised those who love Him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?" James 2:2-6

"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18

I don't even think this is an exhaustive list.

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

redleghunter said:
Amen Praise the Lord for a changed heart. Unfortunately early on one poster's comments were mischaracterized and added to, and thus the seagulls came flocking.

LOL, I really meant it to be an explanation of what I have been going thru and I suppose I should not have posted it in politics but.. it was my spiritual and political experience. When I realized it had turned into a debate I left but..I got tempted and here I am again

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

OldFashionGal said:
Makes me feel good? NO, that's not it. IF you want to judge me for doing it to feel good go ahead. I was a Republican all my life, well actually still am until the change is official, and my eyes started to open little by little and my EARS where I heard Republicans do and say things until I had enough of it. I know what I heard and not from news people, either, and looking back who was it that voted against social security to start with? And has wanted to do away with it ever since but if they can't accomplish that then they will cut it until they can. Some Dems would do the same or at least cut it as most on both sides owe special favors to the Koch Brothers and others that would want to end those programs as well.

And it's not just politicians! I read it all the time in comments from some Republican supporters that don't want people getting help through social security or medicare or anything else or wanting to limit how long people get help.

I have followed this very closely for years! I only wish I had kept a log of every time I heard a Republican talk about ending programs or cutting them but of course then some pull back on their statements after they get ridiculed but their true intentions had already come out.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jun/22/koch-brothers-social-security

https://lynchatlarge.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/nine-republican-candidates-for-u-s-senate-including-arkansas-john-boozman-would-end-medicare-think-it’s-a-mistake-or-believe-it-is-soviet-union-socialism/

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/slide...-candidates-who-want-to-end-social-security/1

Yes! What she said! I am not a Democrat.. still hoping for GOP changes but until then I will not vote GOP

Mary7 · Dec 3, 2015

farout said:
Check out the way you see, look deeper and see beyond what you are told. See life with the eyes of Christ, and regardless of ones party affiliation perhaps the real will of God will come about

That is exactly what I have been trying to do.. seeing thru His eyes. That brought about the change.
What has been so hard for me is the attitude of my Repub. family and friends who now seem to despise me and yet I have not even been given the opportunity to explain anything other than the fact I was questioning the GOP. What happened to 'let's agree to disagree'? Or.. let's share ideas? No, they will not even let me talk.

I still love them all and even people on this forum.
The main thing is.. for we that are christians.. politics is really not important. We are pilgrims passing through and should not be THAT concerned with this earthly country. Politics causes division and we all know that is against what Jesus wants. I toss out tidbits in case there is anyone here that has the same doubts I have had but when we are all in heaven together none of this will matter.

redleghunter · Dec 3, 2015

RedPonyDriver said:
I don't have to answer to you...
Answer how you can be against social safety nets, women's access to contraception, and then turn around and say there are GOVERNMENT programs to pay medical bills.

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth here.

Either be for the programs that support the children you want born, including family leave or stop saying you're "pro-life".

Evangelicals did not get on the abortion bandwagon until much later than the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision...

http://religiondispatches.org/the-not-so-lofty-origins-of-the-evangelical-pro-life-movement/

From the article:
They have to go back to Roman theologian Tertullian to reinforce their claim that the “orthodox position” is that life begins at conception, conveniently leaving out the fact that Church fathers Augustine and Aquinas—and most evangelicals up until the 1970s—are on the other side of the argument. As Aquinas put it (in a view that remained the official position of the Catholic Church from the medieval era to the mid-1800s), “The rational soul ought to be united to a body which may be a suitable organ of sensation… before the body has organs in any way whatever, it cannot be receptive of the soul.”

Although evangelicals were mostly silent on abortion after Roe v. Wade, they were not silent on other political issues. Paul Weyrich, one of the evangelical right’s most influential founders, recalls that the movement initially emerged to defend racially segregated Christian schools from government intrusion:

[W]hat galvanized the Christian community was not abortion, school prayer, or the ERA [Equal Rights Amendment]. I am living witness to that because I was trying to get those people interested in those issues and I utterly failed. What changed their minds was Jimmy Carter’s intervention against the Christian schools, trying to deny them tax-exempt status on the basis of so-called de facto segregation.

In other words, as Randall Balmer has succinctly put it: “the religious right of the late twentieth century organized to perpetuate racial discrimination.”

So...it was a smokescreen...

Was this post for me? As it appears as a general post.

stamperben · Dec 3, 2015

Mary, have you ever heard of GOPLifer? I first heard of him (his name is Chris Ladd) from reading his blog here in the Houston Chronicle several years ago. While I don't agree with everything he has to say, I will say that he is a voice of reason and the GOP would remain a strong political party if they would only listen to some of the suggestions he has to offer. As it is, the Republican party is going to fall by the wayside in not only this presidential election but also even more so in the elections to come.

I'd link to his latest post, but it contains a word that we can't use here on CF. (It's not that bad really.) It's titled Why Remain in the GOP?

stamperben · Dec 3, 2015

Abortion is a mainstay of the GOP, and has been addressed here already. But we keep hearing about "Family values" from them also. I think Sanders has really covered that hypocritical message from the Republicans extremely well in the following:
It’s Time to Support Real Family Values

redleghunter · Dec 3, 2015

RedPonyDriver said:
I found this quite interesting:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...y-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives

From the article:
"It is difficult to define a whole school of political ideology precisely, but one may reasonably define liberalism (as opposed to conservatism) in the contemporary United States as the genuine concern for the welfare of genetically unrelated others and the willingness to contribute larger proportions of private resources for the welfare of such others. In the modern political and economic context, this willingness usually translates into paying higher proportions of individual incomes in taxes toward the government and its social welfare programs. Liberals usually support such social welfare programs and higher taxes to finance them, and conservatives usually oppose them."

To this liberal, the definition above is quite fair and realistic. Let's leave abortion out of this and stick to the definition bolded above.

We all know the left loves demographics and identity politics. It's important for autocrats to collect demographics and totalitarians to manipulate identity politics.

And we all know what psychology says about paranoia, blame projection and persecution complex.

President Obama's hallmark victory of his presidency thus far has been the affordable healthcare act. He and the Democrat House and Senate got exactly what they wanted. He fulfilled a huge campaign promise. Now I am told on these pages of Christian Forums that healthcare is not affordable. That women cannot get needed medical care for themselves and their children. How did this happen? We were told by President Obama this was solved.

There are few possibilities why.

First, the Affordable Healthcare Act (AHA) is fulfilling the needs of lower income families who do not qualify for Medicaid and what we are hearing are old arguments before the Affordable Healthcare Act went into effect.

Second, the AHA is not what was preached by our federal government and is too costly due to younger healthier citizens opting to take a penalty instead of 'buying in.'

Third, the benefits are there and lower income citizens are not taking advantage of the coverage.

Q: "The healthcare exchanges do not offer a suitable price for my family budget, what can I do?"

A: The exchanges will also help people find out if they are eligible for federal subsidies to help cover the cost of coverage or if they are eligible for Medicaid, the federal-state health insurance program for the poor. (http://www.npr.org/2013/10/11/23091...urance-exchanges-and-how-to-shop-for-coverage)

Q: "My state refuses to run a healthcare exchange, how do I get coverage under the AHA?"

A: Sixteen states and the District of Columbia are running their own exchanges and the federal government is setting them up in 27 states. In seven states, federal and state officials are partnering to run the exchanges. You can get information about the exchange at healthcare.gov, which has details on the federal exchanges and links to state-run exchanges. (http://www.npr.org/2013/10/11/23091...urance-exchanges-and-how-to-shop-for-coverage)

More at links above.

For Christians:

https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/

Medi-Share is a healthcare sharing ministry where members share each other's medical expenses. Since 1993, Medi-Share members have shared and discounted more than $1.2 billion in medical bills!

Choice: Members of Medi-Share have a God-honoring choice for their healthcare, and their dollars will never be used for procedures that go against their conscience.

Acceptable: Although not insurance, Medi-Share members are exempt from the mandate to purchase insurance or face financial penalties.

Affordable: With seven levels of sharing, you'll find flexible options to fit your family and budget, at around half the cost of other healthcare programs.

Access: Use one of the largest networks of providers in the country, or choose your own provider.

Community: Fellow members will be praying for and encouraging you and you'll have the opportunity to do the same.

I also encouraged in previous posts for Christians to seek church/pastoral support to help with finding gaps in income for medical procedures.

Loads of helping hands out there most funded by good hearts giving from their bounty to brother and sister.

Some advice President Obama gave in March 2014 when asked why the AHA did not provide more economical plans for lower income families:

"“if you looked at their cable bill, their telephone, their cell phone bill… it may turn out that, it’s just they haven’t prioritized health care.” He added that if a family member gets sick, the father “will wish he had paid that $300 a month.”
---President Obama (a town hall for Spanish-language media on March 6th 2014) (http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/...-isnt-expensive-just-cancel-cable-and-phones/)

Don't know about everyone else but that was pretty callous of a man with a gold-plated healthcare plan saying such to people struggling to survive or make ends meet.

Again, the AHA was the birth child of a Democrat President, Democrat (Nancy Pelosi) controlled House, and Democrat (Harry Reid) controlled Senate. What could go wrong?! The Democrats 'own' this issue and have failed to deliver.

According to the National Center for Public Policy Research, the health care law is reducing choice and increasing premiums for millions of Americans. Ehealthinsurance reports that consumers are paying an average of 39% more than they did before the law was implemented. The high cost of policies is contributing to the continued weak enrollment numbers under the law, which are now showing signs of decreasing with less than 3 weeks left to enroll. When he sought the Presidency, Mr. Obama said his plan would deliver affordable care that people would be “desperate” to purchase.
(http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA656.html) (http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/...-isnt-expensive-just-cancel-cable-and-phones/)

Daniel Garza, Executive Director of The LIBRE Initiative released the following statement:

“If the President actually believes that a family earning less than $40,000 per year can afford nearly $4,000 in health insurance premiums, then he truly does not understand middle-income families. Americans do not need the President to tell them how to budget their households. People are already cutting back on things like cable television and cell phones, just to compensate for an awful economy.This President promised he would deliver on affordable health care. Instead, premiums are up, out-of-pocket expenses are up, and overall cost of living is up.

How much more do we want the Federal government 'helping us' with affordable healthcare? The Democrats had the White House, House and Senate 2009-2010 and gave us the Affordable Healthcare Act. Yet I see quite a few posters here telling me it is not affordable and their situation is worse with less choices available. Yet the very same posters want to double down on government. Psychologists have something to say about this type of behavior too.

Bradly Capel · Dec 3, 2015

stamperben said:
Mary, have you ever heard of GOPLifer? I first heard of him (his name is Chris Ladd) from reading his blog here in the Houston Chronicle several years ago. While I don't agree with everything he has to say, I will say that he is a voice of reason and the GOP would remain a strong political party if they would only listen to some of the suggestions he has to offer. As it is, the Republican party is going to fall by the wayside in not only this presidential election but also even more so in the elections to come.
I'd link to his latest post, but it contains a word that we can't use here on CF. (It's not that bad really.) It's titled Why Remain in the GOP?

It's strange you should mention this because I was watching this on You tube just yesterday, this is what Chris Ladd thinks.

stamperben · Dec 3, 2015

Bradly Capel said:
It's strange you should mention this because I was watching this on You tube just yesterday, this is what Chris Ladd thinks.

Yes, the blue wall. He writes about it in his posts.

stamperben · Dec 3, 2015

redleghunter said:
President Obama's hallmark victory of his presidency thus far has been the affordable healthcare act. He and the Democrat House and Senate got exactly what they wanted. He fulfilled a huge campaign promise. Now I am told on these pages of Christian Forums that healthcare is not affordable. That women cannot get needed medical care for themselves and their children. How did this happen? We were told by President Obama this was solved.

It happened because the public option was abandoned by him. The insurance lobby is extremely strong.
You can read more about it here -
Elimination of 'public option' threw consumers to the insurance wolves

redleghunter · Dec 3, 2015

Mary7 said:
LOL, I really meant it to be an explanation of what I have been going thru and I suppose I should not have posted it in politics but.. it was my spiritual and political experience. When I realized it had turned into a debate I left but..I got tempted and here I am again

I'm glad you did post your testimony. The politics end of it? Worry not Sister in Christ, we won't be quizzed on our politics at the Bema. Your heart is set in the right place. My only advice as a fellow Christian is to not latch on to political promises, campaign slogans.

The devil is literally in the details of politicians.

We must see to the ekklesia first as Christ commanded the disciples to love each other as He loved them. A much higher standard than the normal "love thy neighbor."

Lastly, we should never forget Who is in charge and that He answers prayer. I can't count the number of times in the past 6 years since the scales came off my eyes that I've witnessed answered prayer come 'out of thin air' unexpected (me of little faith) when I truly needed to provide for my family or a serious health concern.

My elderly widowed mother aged 86 ran out of money and she is on SS only now. We had her in assisted living (which is expensive if you don't qualify for Medicaid). The money ran out. Of her 'own' money she had $53.00 left. So a son is not going to let mom fall on her face. I started paying for what her money would not cover monthly. I did this for 4 months and started to realize the rainy day fund I had for my wife and kids was drying up. We just went through 5 years of cancer treatments for my son (diagnosed at 10 years old) and me with colon cancer. So we were kind of not the best choice IMO to handle my mom's finances but my older siblings had their own challenges. We prayed, other Christians prayed, and we did the 'stand still and let God's will' work.

So when we were right down to the last payment before I had to hit retirement funds, I get a call from a lawyer that my Uncle deceased 7 years prior left some money (nothing to make us rich) to me. I had not seen him in years and he wrote a note to my other uncle saying "he and his wife were so kind to me when others rejected me." So you guessed it. The Uncle was the baby brother of my mom, and that money went directly to her. God provided on time. But He did not provide a long-term solution IMO (oh me of little faith). I prayed again with others as well. Our desire was not to be rich just 'help me honor my mom Lord.' Two weeks ago I received a call from a man who used to be a home help aide for my mother. I sold him my mother's house when she moved to assisted living. He offered to take my mom back into her old house (the house he bought) and provide 24 hours care within the means of my mother's income. Answered prayer again.

I will pray for your situation. I am certain you deal with many trials and tribulations taking care of and loving your family. I also posted up some links that may help for the gaps in your healthcare. I highly recommend looking into MEDISHARE as it is a Christian healthcare plan. Go to the link and strike up a phone call with them. You may be amazed at the Hands of the Body of Christ reaching out.

https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/

They have a calculator too:

https://mychristiancare.org/share-calculator/

God Bless sister in Christ.

Grace and Peace

OldFashionGal · Dec 3, 2015

Mary7 said:
Yes! What she said! I am not a Democrat.. still hoping for GOP changes but until then I will not vote GOP

I am changing just so I can vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary. I don't want Hillary to get it and all those saying they are voting for Hillary just because they don't think Bernie Sanders can win the primary need to think again because from a lot of the polls it looks like if Hillary does win the primary then she will lose in the general election. She is bought and paid for, too, with super pac money and a Wall Street Supporter. Polls are strong for Bernie winning the general election and if he won the primary he would have voter turn out to be HUGE compared to Hillary where so many Dems have said they would stay home before voting for her.

Thunder Peel · Dec 3, 2015

Mary,

If you believe that God is truly calling you to the Democrat Party then you need to follow the convictions that the Lord is giving you. I would caution you to ensure that you’re not doing it based on feelings or emotions, as even the Bible warns in Jeremiah 17:9 that “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” Emotions can change and thoughts can be misleading. You also need some kind of logic behind what you believe and it seems you’ve done your best to wrestle with that, for which I will give you credit. I do want to address a few things you’ve said and offer a different perspective.

For starters, you seem to be convinced that conservatives and the GOP are both the same, even though many conservatives, such as myself, are incredibly disenfranchised with the Republicans and feel that they have abandoned the basic tenants of constitutional conservatism. They’re essentially watered-down Democrats at this point and that’s why they will continue to lose elections as long as they run moderate candidates that fail to rally conservatives and interest moderates. They have had numerous chances to challenge Obama and instead have caved to him on nearly every issue, from the debt to illegal immigration to even Obamacare. If anything they’ve compromised too many times while the Democrats have refused to negotiate. Compromise isn’t always a bad thing but the Democrats seem unwilling to budge on any issue, then turn around and claim that the GOP is somehow “obstructing” them. Obama has gotten everything he wanted and in some cases has gone around Congress, which is unconstitutional and flies in the face of the political process our founders carefully set up. We’re not a democracy, we’re a constitutional republic, and that only works when both parties are held to the standards and guidelines set up in the Constitution. Conservatives believe that the founding documents of this country should be the standard and the system of checks and balances ensures that government does not get out of control. What we’re seeing now is a government that continues to grow with no end in sight. As much as you may want to believe this will create a utopia, it’s actually creating the opposite: more taxes, more debt, more poverty, more entitlement, more corruption and more regulation. It’s unsustainable and will eventually collapse under its own weight.

In post #355 you claim that “Jesus was not a capitalist”, yet He worked as a carpenter and I’m sure He and Joseph were paid for their work in some capacity. He also called the disciples, who worked jobs as varied as fishermen and doctors. Again, for someone who supposedly abhorred capitalism He had no problem calling men who worked and understood the value of labor. While we’re not told that Jesus subscribed to any particular political system, it seems that He and the disciples had no qualms with the concept of work in exchange for payment. Even in the Old Testament work was normal, including God Himself, who created the Earth in six days and then rested on the seventh. Work is vital to growth, self-esteem and profit. 2 Thessalonians 3:6-13 also shows the value of hard work and reward:

“In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

In your opening post you also stated that the GOP would have no issues if it weren’t for abortion. While it is true that abortion is an important issue to many of us, it isn’t the only reason we vote the way we do. If anything it’s big and reckless government that’s at the top of the list, with immigration, spending, national defense and individual liberty being priorities as well. It seems you did not really understand what conservatives believe and have convinced yourself that abortion is all we care about. A quick look through the forums and various Republican outlets would show that’s hardly the case. If you believe that God has created each individual with a plan and purpose then I find it strange that you would side with a party that doesn’t value the unborn but rather fights for the right to kill them because they’re “inconvenient”. Again, this is something you and the Lord have work out.

In post #370 you talk about family and friends distancing themselves from you. While that’s unfortunate you also have to remember that most conservative points are met with the usual responses that accuse us of racism, greed, bigotry and hating the poor. Some of your own posts in this thread have used that same argument and yet you wonder why Republican family members don’t want to talk to you. Would you waste time debating with someone who simply calls you a racist for having a different point of view? There’s value in a healthy debate but simply tossing out buzzwords intended to project and insult doesn’t yield any positive results and I see the left constantly resorting to that tactic. I have a lot of liberal friends and over the years I’ve learned which ones are willing to debate and which ones simply want to insult. Obviously this happens with Republicans as well but I find it more common with Democrats.

As for entitlement programs, I see very few Republicans demanding that things like Social Security, food stamps and Medicare be done away with. However, we do want responsible management and believe that safety nets should be a temporary solution, not a permanent lifestyle. The government is great at getting people into the system but poor at actually getting them back on their feet. It’s not that we don’t care about the poor and needy; we just want to see them get to a place where they can support themselves and manage their own lives. The government cannot pull people out of poverty, nor can it create a paradise on earth where everyone is healthy and safe. It’s impossible and despite nearly $19 trillion in debt we have the same amount of poor that we did in the 1960s. Constant taxes and spending are not going to solve the problem. Even Jesus said the poor will always be with us and it should be up to the local church and communities to attend to them as best as we can. Our church works with local orphans and adoption agencies to find good homes for needy children. Another church in town has paid for meals and set up events to minister to those in need. This is what Jesus was talking about: Christians working together to help those in need. Never did He state that the government should take from one person to give to someone else. When Christ is in us we willingly give and have a heart for those who are hurting. God blesses some people with millions of dollars and others are given less; we aren’t in control of how He works but we are responsible for using what He’s blessed us with. It’s our job to be in step with His will and the local church will always do more for the downtrodden than the federal government can ever do. Billions of tax dollars forcibly taken from citizens and then dumped into random programs has not solved the problem. Like I stated earlier, you need more than emotion to tackle these difficult issues. Logic and planning have to be considered and ultimately someone has to pay for these programs. Are you willing to pay more? Will you open your home to strangers and refugees? Will you skip meals and do with less to give to someone else? Or are you simply hoping to force others into it when they may not have much to give themselves?

You claim you’re surprised this turned into a debate but I find that hard to believe. You would not have posted this thread if you didn’t expect people to debate and ask questions. It’s the nature of a forum like this, for better or worse. Only you know what God is calling you to do but don’t harden your heart toward those who don’t share your beliefs. If we all focused less on politics and more on the Gospel we’d all be in a better place and I imagine much more productive for the Kingdom.

God bless!

Why this Christian GOP member is changing

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