Biblical Evidence or Verses for the Sinner's Prayer.

JLB777 · Nov 27, 2015

Jason0047 said:
More examples of confessing sin in the Bible so as to be forgiven of it.

"Then Aaron said to Moses,
"Oh, my lord, I beg you, do not account this sin to us, in which we have acted foolishly and in which we have sinned.""
(Numbers 12:11).

"Now David's heart troubled him after he had numbered the people.
So David said to the LORD,
"I have sinned greatly in what I have done But now, O LORD, please take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have acted very foolishly.""
(2 Samuel 24:10).

"and I said,
"O my God, I am ashamed and embarrassed to lift up my face to You, my God, for our iniquities have risen above our heads and our guilt has grown even to the heavens.""
(Ezra 9:6).

"And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;"
(Daniel 9:20).

...

Let me save you the trouble.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

As you well know, this is not the point of contention we have.

The Gospel is Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

This doesn't say "repent of your sins", or say the "sinners prayer", as you are falsely teaching God's people.

Repent, which means turn to God, and by default turn away from Satan as lord.

You have failed to produced any scriptures that validate your "sinners prayer" theory of salvation.

You have failed to produce any scriptures that validate your "repent of your sins" theory of receiving salvation.

Repent is a direct command to turn to God, and away from Satan. To join God's kingdom by confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is how we receive the initial forgiveness of sins.

17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

...that they may receive forgiveness of sins.

No "repent of your sins", or saying "the sinners prayer", here.

JLB

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

JLB777 said:
There is no such Gospel message that says repent of your sins, to be saved.

A person can not turn away from sin, while under the dominion of Satan.

The way a person is forgiven their sins, is to turn away from Satan, by confessing Jesus as Lord.

17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:17-18

....that they may receive forgiveness of sins

The way to receive the forgiveness of sins is to turn from Satan to God, by confessing Jesus as Lord.

JLB

So a person is forgiven the moment they confess Jesus is Lord and they can only do this by way of being regenerated? A pre-regeneration of one's will before one actually makes the decision themselves (if they are actually making the decision)? Or are they not making the decision themselves by agreeing with God's plan of salvation by confessing Jesus is Lord? But what about sin? What role does sin play in this gospel message? None? Do they have to think about their sin on some levell? Or does one just naturally turn away from sin after confessing Jesus is Lord? What about Godly sorrow over one's sin? Does there need to be a Godly sorrow over one's sin? Also, if one does not have to confess their sin to God, then why are there so many cases of men of God confessing their sin to God so as to be forgiven? Or do think men of God can be saved and still abide in sin in certain cases? For 1 John 1:9 says we are to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin. If you are already forgiven or saved by confessing Jesus is Lord and moving away from your sin but yet you still have sin on your record by not confessing it, are you saved? Or is confession a part of turning away from sin? But see, it doesn't make any sense to me to say that when a believer needs to get their heart right with God and confess their sin and yet it is different somehow for the unbeliever. Romans 10 makes it clear we are to call upon the Lord to be saved. Confessing Jesus is Lord is good but if that is all they are doing and they are not sorry about their sin before Him, then there is going to be no real desire to want to turn from their sin.

....

JLB777 · Nov 28, 2015

Jason0047 said:
So a person is forgiven the moment they confess Jesus is Lord and they can only do this by way of being regenerated? A pre-regeneration of one's will before one actually makes the decision themselves (if they are actually making the decision)? Or are they not making the decision themselves by agreeing with God's plan of salvation by confessing Jesus is Lord? But what about sin? What role does sin play in this gospel message? None? Do they have to think about their sin on some levell? Or does one just naturally turn away from sin after confessing Jesus is Lord? What about Godly sorrow over one's sin? Does there need to be a Godly sorrow over one's sin? Also, if one does not have to confess their sin to God, then why are there so many cases of men of God confessing their sin to God so as to be forgiven? Or do think men of God can be saved and still abide in sin in certain cases? For 1 John 1:9 says we are to confess sin in order to be forgiven of sin. If you are already forgiven or saved by confessing Jesus is Lord and moving away from your sin but yet you still have sin on your record by not confessing it, are you saved? Or is confession a part of turning away from sin? But see, it doesn't make any sense to me to say that when a believer needs to get their heart right with God and confess their sin and yet it is different somehow for the unbeliever. Romans 10 makes it clear we are to call upon the Lord to be saved. Confessing Jesus is Lord is good but if that is all they are doing and they are not sorry about their sin before Him, then there is going to be no real desire to want to turn from their sin.

....

The Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation.

Not the sinners prayer.

nobdysfool · Nov 28, 2015

Sins are forgiven, not on the basis of what YOU do, but on the basis of what HE has done.

sdowney717 · Nov 28, 2015

nobdysfool said:
Sins are forgiven, not on the basis of what YOU do, but on the basis of what HE has done.

The new covenant works differently for sure.
Let's not be old covenant thinking Christians, an oxymoron.
Hebrews 8
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

God says this one sentence in v10, and it basically sums up that regeneration and election and monergistic salvation are all on Him, not on us if you can believe what God says.

I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God overrules the heart and will of man, making a declarative statement of what He does here. What God does is highly contrary to all the objections from many of the false ideas people have that God will not go against the will of a man to save him.
indeed we are not born of the will of the flesh, not born of the will of man, we are born of God all those that do receive Him.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

nobdysfool said:
Sins are forgiven, not on the basis of what YOU do, but on the basis of what HE has done.

So Romans 14:12 is lying in the fact that everyone will give an account to God? That everything all people ever did was under God’s direction? The Judgment is just a joke? It was God all along pulling everyone's strings? Sorry. I don't buy it. God is not willing that anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

...

sdowney717 · Nov 28, 2015

Jason0047 said:
So Romans 14:12 is lying in the fact that everyone will give an account to God? That everything all people ever did was under God’s direction? The Judgment is just a joke? It was God all along pulling everyone's strings? Sorry. I don't buy it. God is not willing that anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
...

Ask yourself, to whom was Peter writing his letter?
Not to the world, Peter was writing to the beloved elect of God, meaning those who are going to be saved. God was not willing that any of them perish but that all would come to repentance. So when Peter says 'you' this does not include those who are not of the elect. Peter is talking about those whom God foreknew.

For confirmation please note for whom Paul labors.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

It is so clearly written. Elect means chosen of God for salvation, so when Christ says for many are called but few chosen, in the greek, that word chosen is same one used for elect.

So then Jesus says
' for many are called but few are elect'

JLB777 · Nov 28, 2015

nobdysfool said:
Sins are forgiven, not on the basis of what YOU do, but on the basis of what HE has done.

What He has done for us 2000 years ago, manifest's as reality to those who obey the Gospel.

Those who believe the Gospel obey the Gospel, by repenting.

JLB

JLB777 · Nov 28, 2015

sdowney717 said:
Ask yourself, to whom was Peter writing his letter?
Not to the world, Peter was writing to the beloved elect of God, meaning those who are going to be saved. God was not willing that any of them perish but that all would come to repentance. So when Peter says 'you' this does not include those who are not of the elect. Peter is talking about those whom God foreknew.

For confirmation please note for whom Paul labors.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

It is so clearly written. Elect means chosen of God for salvation, so when Christ says for many are called but few chosen, in the greek, that word chosen is same one used for elect.

So then Jesus says
' for many are called but few are elect'

8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:8-10

The Elect is a reference to the Jews, the seed of David.

sdowney717 · Nov 28, 2015

JLB777 said:
8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:8-10

The Elect is a reference to the Jews, the seed of David.

Paul gives detailed explanation of who is the true Israel of God in Romans 9
For not all Israel is 'of Israel' . The elect of Israel and the elect of the gentiles all have the same saviour Jesus Christ, and all are called in the same way, being jewish by birth is irrelevant in the NT.

Romans 9
For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

So we read God gave to Abraham His promise that said his offspring are like Isaac, that is Abraham's resultant future 'children of God' are sons of God's promise to Abraham that the saved ones would be as of Isaac by nature, not of profane unholy Esau's side, that Isaac then of course Jacob, then of course all elect who obtain salvation, would be counted as the seed and so on and on to the present day.

Israel according to the flesh is not saved, Those who would be spiritually alive to God would be those given, accredited as belonging to Abraham' side to be justified by faith, required they be children of God's promise, so then by grace not according to the flesh but according to the promise of God we are elect - saved. And this true of both gentiles and jews.

Romans 9
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

v25 - v28 here describes the gentile nations
25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

v27 - 29 here describes the jewish nation

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”

29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

Gentiles or Jew, they must be children of God's promise or they are not going to be counted as the seed, not elect, so then not saved and this includes gentile and jew.
Romans 9 clearly states for both gentile and jew must be as Isaac was- is, a child of God's promise, so then elect according to the calling of God in their life, and not according to the flesh, not the will of the flesh, not the will of man but of God are we born again regenerated by grace.
Romans 9
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So then the true Israel of God includes both some from the Jews and some from the gentiles. Being a child of the promise is by the Spirit of God's calling on them to be saved and that due to them being elect chosen by Him, so then not according to the flesh.

JLB777 · Nov 28, 2015

sdowney717 said:
Paul gives detailed explanation of who is the true Israel of God in Romans 9
For not all Israel is 'of Israel' . The elect of Israel and the elect of the gentiles all have the same saviour Jesus Christ, and all are called in the same way, being jewish by birth is irrelevant in the NT.

Romans 9
For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

So we read God gave to Abraham His promise that said his offspring are like Isaac, that is Abraham's resultant future 'children of God' are sons of God's promise to Abraham that the saved ones would be as of Isaac by nature, not of profane unholy Esau's side, that Isaac then of course Jacob, then of course all elect who obtain salvation, would be counted as the seed and so on and on to the present day.

Israel according to the flesh is not saved, Those who would be spiritually alive to God would be those given, accredited as belonging to Abraham' side to be justified by faith, required they be children of God's promise, so then by grace not according to the flesh but according to the promise of God we are elect - saved. And this true of both gentiles and jews.

Romans 9
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

v25 - v28 here describes the gentile nations
25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

v27 - 29 here describes the jewish nation

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”

29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

Gentiles or Jew, they must be children of God's promise or they are not going to be counted as the seed, not elect, so then not saved and this includes gentile and jew.
Romans 9 clearly states for both gentile and jew must be as Isaac was- is, a child of God's promise, so then elect according to the calling of God in their life, and not according to the flesh, not the will of the flesh, not the will of man but of God are we born again regenerated by grace.
Romans 9
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So then the true Israel of God includes both some from the Jews and some from the gentiles. Being a child of the promise is by the Spirit of God's calling on them to be saved and that due to them being elect chosen by Him, so then not according to the flesh.

What's your point here?

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. Romans 11:28

JLB

sdowney717 · Nov 28, 2015

JLB777 said:
What's your point here?

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. Romans 11:28
JLB

You said
'The Elect is a reference to the Jews, the seed of David.'
regarding my quoting what Paul said about election here.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

So I am showing you election is not just referring to the jew, but also the gentile.
Frequently those who deny election of certain individuals by foreknowledge and grace alone say Romans 9 speaks only to the jewish nation, which is very very wrong.

Ask yourself, Where did God send Paul? Well God sent him to the gentiles. So when Paul tells Timothy he endures all things for the elect, then he is saying only the elect of God will be saved, and these elect in their ministry are gentiles..

nobdysfool · Nov 28, 2015

Jason0047 said:
So Romans 14:12 is lying in the fact that everyone will give an account to God? That everything all people ever did was under God’s direction? The Judgment is just a joke? It was God all along pulling everyone's strings? Sorry. I don't buy it. God is not willing that anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). ...

That is NOT what i said, Jason. Go back and read it again, and again, and again, until it sinks in. You seem to think forgiveness must be worked for, even if that work is confessing every sin you can think of. In some way, you think that moves God to forgive you. When you came to Christ, and received Him, your sins were forgiven. When you are in Christ (as all true believers are), you have risen with Him, and are beyond the penalty of the law, as death is the ultimate penalty, and you died with Christ. Therefore, the penalty has been paid, and you are no longer a debtor to the law. The debt is marked "Paid in Full, J.C". Does that mean you can now go out and sin all you want? NO! It means you are now free to serve God under the covenant of Grace, which is the New Covenant, and a better one.

You seem to advocate people working their butts off, sweating it out, with the idea that any given moment, you could lose your salvation. One slip, and you must start all over. There is no Grace in that, Jason. None.

As far as 2 Peter 3:9, either God isn't getting what He wants, His Will is not being fulfilled (not too likely), OR you are not understanding that verse in its context, and by removing it from that context, you are taking it to mean something other than what Peter said.. That's called cherry-picking verses. It's very poor methodology for developing a theological view, and leads to all sorts of errors.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

sdowney717 said:
Ask yourself, to whom was Peter writing his letter?
Not to the world, Peter was writing to the beloved elect of God, meaning those who are going to be saved. God was not willing that any of them perish but that all would come to repentance. So when Peter says 'you' this does not include those who are not of the elect. Peter is talking about those whom God foreknew.

For confirmation please note for whom Paul labors.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

It is so clearly written. Elect means chosen of God for salvation, so when Christ says for many are called but few chosen, in the greek, that word chosen is same one used for elect.

So then Jesus says
' for many are called but few are elect'

What is the context for 2 Peter 3:9 in understanding who Peter was talking to?

"And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;" (2 Peter 2:5).

Think. Why would God allow Noah to waste his time in being a preacher of righteousness if God knew that NOBODY was going to repent ever and that they had no chance whatsoever in believing Noah?

In other words, Noah was a preacher of righteousness because there was a chance that those who did not believe God and Noah are going to be held accountable for their actions. Many did not have to perish in the global flood. They could have believed and entered the Ark. Romans 14 says everyone will be held accountable to God. It is not that they could not help themselves because God made them that way (Whereby God passes some kind of Judgment that would be a joke). People are held accountable for their own actions towards God. There cannot be a Judgment if God forced man to believe or not to believe.

....

sdowney717 · Nov 28, 2015

Jason0047 said:
What is the context for 2 Peter 3:9 in understanding who Peter was talking to?

"And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;" (2 Peter 2:5).

Think. Why would God allow Noah to waste his time in being a preacher of righteousness if God knew that NOBODY was going to repent ever and that they had no chance whatsoever in believing Noah?

In other words, Noah was a preacher of righteousness because there was a chance that those who did not believe God and Noah are going to be held accountable for their actions. Many did not have to perish in the global flood. They could have believed and entered the Ark. Romans 14 says everyone will be held accountable to God. It is not that they could not help themselves because God made them that way (Whereby God passes some kind of Judgment that would be a joke). People are held accountable for their own actions God. There cannot be a Judgment if God forced man to believe or not to believe.

....

For the same reason God commands all men everywhere to repent, Noah also by preaching righteousness to the world, God clearly tells people what to expect from Him if they do not repent, in Noah's time a flood of destruction on them. The fact they do not repent show they have not been regenerated in order to be enabled to believe and be saved. Yet some at that time did begin to call upon the name of the LORD, so we see God was working in their life.
The entire world is under wrath of God and destined for hell fire. So God has chosen to some to be merciful and soften their hearts, giving them the new heart, and also to leave others in their fallen state for His judgement on the world that says the soul that sins shall die. The gospel even today has not been heard by all yet and many people never having heard the gospel died in their sins and went to hell.
God holds men accountable for their sins, yet God also says He will be merciful to whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
So then it is not according to man who runs this race in life, but of God who shows mercy. So for some mercy, and for some wrath.

I'll even say it this way. God tells all to repent, yet since most do not, this demonstrates to all of heaven and earth that natural evil mankind will not turn to God and be saved on their free will. It takes an act of God to arrest your future descent into hell and turn sinners into saints. So this is a judgement on man they fact that they refuse the call to repentance. God will have man to receive from Him by His grace and mercy salvation, and not upon man's working out his own relationship to God by his works.
Consider Cain and Abel. Cain worked hard in his own efforts in making his offering to God which the Lord rejected and also shows his arrogance in that God had cursed the ground, yet Cain says so what, look what I made your cursed ground produce..

Cains' offering to God was evil and disrespectful, Cain disregarded what the Lord had said.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

nobdysfool said:
That is NOT what i said, Jason. Go back and read it again, and again, and again, until it sinks in. You seem to think forgiveness must be worked for, even if that work is confessing every sin you can think of.

Where did I ever say that a person has to confess every sin they ever did when coming to the faith? I didn't. The Sinner's Prayer is admitting that you are a sinner and you are grieved over your sins and you desire to be forgiven by God and seek to never sin anymore towards God. For whossever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13). Call upon the Lord for what? For what reason? To save you from what?

Do you not know that Paul says that Godly sorrow leads to repentance unto salvation? (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Also, the Sinner's Prayer is not really a man directed work; Nor does it take any major effort on your part to partake of it.

In some way, you think that moves God to forgive you.

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).
He that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).
The Tax Collector (who could have been someone coming to the faith for the first time) had called out to God to have mercy on him in being a sinner. Jesus said he was humble and he was more justified than the Pharisee. James says God gives grace to the humble.

When you came to Christ, and received Him, your sins were forgiven. When you are in Christ (as all true believers are), you have risen with Him, and are beyond the penalty of the law, as death is the ultimate penalty, and you died with Christ. Therefore, the penalty has been paid, and you are no longer a debtor to the law. The debt is marked "Paid in Full, J.C". Does that mean you can now go out and sin all you want? NO! It means you are now free to serve God under the covenant of Grace, which is the New Covenant, and a better one.

You are not under no law whatsoever. There are plenty of Commands in the New Testament. Paul was talking about the Law of Moses in the book of Romans and in the book of Galatians. Jesus said, "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23).

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief." (1 Timothy 1:9-13).

You seem to advocate people working their butts off, sweating it out, with the idea that any given moment, you could lose your salvation. One slip, and you must start all over. There is no Grace in that, Jason. None.

Grace is not for you to be your own master or for you to be a slave to sin. Grace is there for you to serve Jesus Christ and to make Him your Master and to become a slave to righteousness. Also, any good work a believer does is not of their own doing, either. Christ (God) works in the believer. So they cannot take the credit.

As far as 2 Peter 3:9, either God isn't getting what He wants, His Will is not being fulfilled (not too likely), OR you are not understanding that verse in its context, and by removing it from that context, you are taking it to mean something other than what Peter said.. That's called cherry-picking verses. It's very poor methodology for developing a theological view, and leads to all sorts of errors.

It doesn't really mean anything if you do not use any verses to back up your interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9. 1 John 2:1-2 says Jesus is not only the propitation for our sins, but for the sins of the entire world. This means that the free gift of salvation is available to ALL people.

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4).

For Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world so as to give everyone the free gift.

....

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

sdowney717 said:
For the same reason God commands all men everywhere to repent, Noah also by preaching righteousness to the world, God clearly tells people what to expect from Him if they do not repent, in Noah's time a flood of destruction on them. The fact they do not repent show they have not been regenerated in order to be enabled to believe and be saved. Yet some at that time did begin to call upon the name of the LORD, so we see God was working in their life.
The entire world is under wrath of God and destined for hell fire. So God has chosen to some to be merciful and soften their hearts, giving them the new heart, and also to leave others in their fallen state for His judgement on the world that says the soul that sins shall die. The gospel even today has not been heard by all yet and many people never having heard the gospel died in their sins and went to hell.
God holds men accountable for their sins, yet God also says He will be merciful to whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
So then it is not according to man who runs this race in life, but of God who shows mercy. So for some mercy, and for some wrath.

I'll even say it this way. God tells all to repent, yet since most do not, this demonstrates to all of heaven and earth that natural evil mankind will not turn to God and be saved on their free will. It takes an act of God to arrest your future descent into hell and turn sinners into saints. So this is a judgement on man they fact that they refuse the call to repentance. God will have man to receive from Him by His grace and mercy salvation, and not upon man's working out his own relationship to God by his works.
Consider Cain and Abel. Cain worked hard in his own efforts in making his offering to God which the Lord rejected and also shows his arrogance in that God had cursed the ground, yet Cain says so what, look what I made your cursed ground produce..

Cains' offering to God was evil and disrespectful, Cain disregarded what the Lord had said.

Cain is a perfect example of free will. God essentially said he had a choice. Please read Genesis 4:7.

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Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

JLB777 said:
The Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation.

Not the sinners prayer.

Can a believer be in an unsaved state because of sin?
If so, can they not confess of such a sin so as to be forgiven of it?

What makes the believer different from the unbeliever in this case?
Are you saying there are two different treatments for two different kinds of unsaved people?

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Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

Dear NF:

There is one thing I would like to add.

If we are not under any kind of law whatsoever, then why does Paul say this?

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:4).

Please take note that I do not believe we are under the Law of Moses as a whole or the Old Covenant Law. I believe the New Testament is the binding covenant for today and it has it's own laws and commands. For where has Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and 1 John 3:15 been abrogated? Do you not know that Paul essentially said that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness they are proud and they know nothing? (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

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Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2015

sdowney717 said:
Paul gives detailed explanation of who is the true Israel of God in Romans 9
For not all Israel is 'of Israel' . The elect of Israel and the elect of the gentiles all have the same saviour Jesus Christ, and all are called in the same way, being jewish by birth is irrelevant in the NT.

Romans 9
For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

So we read God gave to Abraham His promise that said his offspring are like Isaac, that is Abraham's resultant future 'children of God' are sons of God's promise to Abraham that the saved ones would be as of Isaac by nature, not of profane unholy Esau's side, that Isaac then of course Jacob, then of course all elect who obtain salvation, would be counted as the seed and so on and on to the present day.

Israel according to the flesh is not saved, Those who would be spiritually alive to God would be those given, accredited as belonging to Abraham' side to be justified by faith, required they be children of God's promise, so then by grace not according to the flesh but according to the promise of God we are elect - saved. And this true of both gentiles and jews.

Romans 9
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

v25 - v28 here describes the gentile nations
25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

v27 - 29 here describes the jewish nation

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”

29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

Gentiles or Jew, they must be children of God's promise or they are not going to be counted as the seed, not elect, so then not saved and this includes gentile and jew.
Romans 9 clearly states for both gentile and jew must be as Isaac was- is, a child of God's promise, so then elect according to the calling of God in their life, and not according to the flesh, not the will of the flesh, not the will of man but of God are we born again regenerated by grace.
Romans 9
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So then the true Israel of God includes both some from the Jews and some from the gentiles. Being a child of the promise is by the Spirit of God's calling on them to be saved and that due to them being elect chosen by Him, so then not according to the flesh.

There is a difference between God knowing who will endure to the End and be saved (i.e. His Elect) versus say everyone having the free will opportunity to accept Christ or to reject Him. Try looking again at 1 Peter 1:1-2. It says God the Father elects (i.e. chooses us) based on his future foreknowledge. Meaning, God elects those He knows who will choose Him of their own free will.

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Biblical Evidence or Verses for the Sinner's Prayer.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

The original! Accept no substitutes!

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

The original! Accept no substitutes!

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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