LDS LDS: The Closed off Nature of LDS Temples

OrthodoxForever

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This is more a question than a "I'm right you're wrong" thread.

I just don't understand the whole "temple worthy Mormons only" policy regarding LDS temples.

I don't understand it on a scriptural level, because many times throughout the New Testament, Jesus and the Apostles make it clear that puritanical exclusion of others isn't a good thing:

"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed. And Jesus said to him, “See that you tell no one; but go your way, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.” - Matthew 8:1-4

"Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him,a]'>[a] and said to him, “Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. But when they saw it, they all complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner.” - Luke 19:1-7

Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say? This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” - John 8:1-11

"Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust." - 1Timothy 1:5-11

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28
 
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Sojourner1

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I have always wondered about this myself. Our friends daughter married a mormon (she converted to Mormonism from Christianity) and they could not attend their own daughters wedding because it was in an LDS temple. I find that very sad :(
 
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Ironhold

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Historical - It's not true that the Jewish temple was 100% open to everyone, as specific areas of the temple were only accessible to specific people. IIRC it was actually common practice at one point to tie a rope around the waist of the high priest so that if they fell unconscious, fell ill, or died while in the Holy of Holies the attendants could remove him without entering the room. If you'll note, much of what took place when Jesus was in the temple took place in the outer courtyards and outer rooms, where access was more readily available.

Spiritual - The temple is the closest place to Heaven that we can get to on Earth, and so you're essentially in God's presence. I think, given this, you can understand why only people who are truly upright and living the gospel should be in there.

Logistical - Few people seem to realize just how much is crammed into a single temple. As a result of this, even though the building itself may appear to be large, the individual rooms aren't. Some temples would be hard-pressed to fit more than a dozen or so people comfortably in the sealing room or other such key areas, meaning that the guest list for events is usually pared down quite significantly.
 
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drstevej

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Spiritual - The temple is the closest place to Heaven that we can get to on Earth, and so you're essentially in God's presence. I think, given this, you can understand why only people who are truly upright and living the gospel should be in there.

So only Temple worthy Mormons are truly upright.

We are all in God's presence 24 /7.

Psalm 139
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?

8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.

9 If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,

10 Even there Your hand will lead me,
And Your right hand will lay hold of me.
 
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OrthodoxForever

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So only Temple worthy Mormons are truly upright.

We are all in God's presence 24 /7.

Psalm 139
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?

8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.

9 If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,

10 Even there Your hand will lead me,
And Your right hand will lay hold of me.

That's the other thing, my BFF was raised Mormon from birth but even she thinks the exclusion policy is ridiculous. Yet when I as a non-Mormon with no desire to convert but also no desire to make fun of them or anything else other than attend my own best friend's wedding (which I don't think should be too much to ask) they acted like I was selfish and disrespectful and weird for wanting to enter the temple as a non-member and having the audacity to ask. I told them that I could care less if I do or don't ever see the inside of their temples and that my interest was solely in being there for my friend and that if I genuinely thought that badly of them I wouldn't have been friends with one of their own all these years...
 
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Tigger45

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Interesting thing is the Dallas LDS Temple gave tours to the public when it opened. I did the tour.
Yep, every LDS temple opening I've seen has done that.
 
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OrthodoxForever

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Sorry but this is something you'll never understand.
Probably not if you just make that statement and don't elaborate. Why does not being Mormon make me less of a person to most of those within it? Why is it looked at as if wanting to be there when my friend is married makes me a selfish and terrible person? When it's my turn she's allowed to be there and no one will take any issue at all with that even though it will be a religious ceremony... Again, the exclusion is something unique to Mormonism and no I don't understand, because no one from the inside has ever been able to explain to me why this is the way it is without talking down to me and/or insulting me...
 
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Jane_Doe

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This is more a question than a "I'm right you're wrong" thread.

I just don't understand the whole "temple worthy Mormons only" policy regarding LDS temples.

I don't understand it on a scriptural level, because many times throughout the New Testament, Jesus and the Apostles make it clear that puritanical exclusion of others isn't a good thing:

"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed. And Jesus said to him, “See that you tell no one; but go your way, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.” - Matthew 8:1-4

"Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him,a]'>[a] and said to him, “Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. But when they saw it, they all complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner.” - Luke 19:1-7

Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say? This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” - John 8:1-11

"Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust." - 1Timothy 1:5-11

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28

I'll respond to this later tonight, after work.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Ok, to properly cover this it’s going to be a fairly long post. I’m going to start out by explaining the difference between a LDS temple and a LDS meeting house.


What a LDS meeting house is: What a mainstream Christian thinks of as a “church building” is a LDS “a meeting house”. It’s where your local building where you go on Sunday to hear about God, study scripture, and take communion. Weekday activities at a meeting house include youth group, choir, baptisms, sports games, ladies meetings, etc.


These buildings are completely open to the public, the sign even says “Visitor’s Welcome”. We want people to come here and learn about God: that’s why we have 85,000 full-time missionaries in the world trying their hardest to convince people to come to church. It doesn’t matter whom you are, what your beliefs are, what you do, what you’re wearing, etc. We want you to come and worship God with us.


What a LDS temple is NOT: An LDS temple is NOT where people go for worship on Sunday- in fact a temple is completely closed on Sunday. There are no sermons to the congregation nor communion. There are no youth groups casually hanging out at a temple, no ladies brunches, and no basketball court. A temple is not a local building: for example within two miles of my house are 3 local meeting houses, but it’s a 3 hour drive to the nearest temple.

(To be continued...)
 
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Jane_Doe

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What a LDS temple IS: since Mormons don’t listen to sermons at the temple, or take communion, or have weekly scripture study sessions, the logical question is what DO Mormons actually do at the temple? A temple is a special place for individuals to make individual promises with God (we call them “covenants”). It is a place for private personal prayer and communication with God. In a way it can be compared to Mt Sinai or the Holy of Holies.


Due to the special and personal nature of the conversations/promises with God, the temple is not a place for hosting large gatherings. Rather, it is a private space reserved for whom a deeply involved with God right now whom want to make those deep covenants with God right now. Before a person can deep covenants, they need to have made the introductory covenants (like baptism) and been doing a decent job at keep those promises. To ask a person to make more serious covenants while they’re struggling with the introductory ones is courting disaster for them.


Mormons do welcome all whom want to come to Christ and do their best to encourage them in that quest. We welcome all to come to our local churches and be involved with services there. We invite all to be baptized and make those covenants. When a person is ready for the later covenants, we invite them to make them in the temple (to do so before they’re ready would be courting disaster).
 
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Jane_Doe

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Regarding weddings in particular.

In the Mormon church there are 2 types of marriages: those performed a Justice of the Peace (civil) and those performed in front of God (we call it a "sealing"). The concept is sort-of similar to the Catholic concept of "natural" and "sacramental" marriage. From the Mormon POV: a sealing marriage is the highest possible promise you can make with God. It is extremely personal and sacred. You do NOT attend a sealing as a witness to "show support for the couple" or to "celebrate", bur rather to witness and aide them in their covenants and living the best Christian life they possible.

OrthodoxForever, I don't doubt your love your friend and want to support her/him in their walk with Christ and in their marriage. But sometimes supporting a person means understanding what's important to them and supporting them in that journey, even if you cannot be their to witness it (like the case of a temple sealing).
 
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drstevej

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In the New Testament believers are the Temple of God (1 Cor 3:16-17; Eph. 2:19-20). I have been to Athens, Ephesus, Corinth, and Sardis and there are no remains of a Christian Temple.

If LDS is restored Christianity please site any Christian temple building in the Acts or epistles.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Now on to your specific comments---

Why does not being Mormon make me less of a person to most of those within it?

It is not a matter of being more of less of a person. It is a matter of how serious and personal this particular commitment is to God. From the LDS perspective you're not even validly baptized (no offense), and to ask you to be a witness to a sealing... such is courting bad news for your relationship with God (don't run before you walk).

Why is it looked at as if wanting to be there when my friend is married makes me a selfish and terrible person?

(I'm going to totally exaggerate things here for effect)

"No friend! You cannot undergo this sacred ceremony of marriage that you so dearly cherish, but I don't remotely understand! You got to get married when and where I want you to so I can where a fancy dress!"

Again, that was totally exaggerated. If she wants to get married in a temple, supporting her is supporting her in that choice despite the fact that you can't be there. I'm sorry if this seems harsh, and no I don't think you're a terrible selfish person and I highly doubt your friend saw you that way either. It is a hard thing for people to understand in a world where people post videos of them giving birth on Facebook for there 5000+ friends.


When it's my turn she's allowed to be there and no one will take any issue at all with that even though it will be a religious ceremony

I am not very familiar with EO beliefs: do you view marriage as a sacrament?

For my non-denominational friends, they do not view marriage as a sacrament at all, and see getting married in a beach in sandals just as attractive (if not more) than getting married in a church. I would consider those views of marriage vs the LDS sealing marriage to be comparing apples and oranges.

Again, the exclusion is something unique to Mormonism and no I don't understand, because no one from the inside has ever been able to explain to me why this is the way it is without talking down to me and/or insulting me...

Did my explanation help at all?
 
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drstevej

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For my non-denominational friends, they do not view marriage as a sacrament at all, and see getting married in a beach in sandals just as attractive (if not more) than getting married in a church.

I have done 80+ weddings and 1 was on a beach, 5 were outdoor at a Plantation the rest were in churches. 90% are still married after an average of 25+ years. I'd say they take their marriage covenant seriously.
 
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