Would someone please enlighten me on the official beliefs of the Methodist church?

JCFantasy23

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Very interesting! As a child I was taught that the sacraments were symbols, it was only after reading the bible when I was 12-15 years old that I realized that, that wasn't scriptural. I have visited my old church on occasion and now there's a new Pastor who is very clear about that with baptism (but strangely communion is somehow still being seen as symbolic) but the one when I was there and who taught and confirmed my confirmation class clearly saw Both sacraments as pure symbolism and nothing more.

I was always a Christian but didn't choose a denomination until my early 30's. A draw for me to Methodism was the respect they seemed to see the sacraments and not viewing communion as just a remembrance symbol. Different impressions may be made depending on a pastor or church body that aren't universal, which is probably what happened in your case. Different pastors may impress importance on what they want to - my former church, the pastor was great but he mainly focused on evangelism and bringing people to Christ, which isn't the typical primary focus for a lot of Methodist pastors.
 
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OrthodoxForever

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I was always a Christian but didn't choose a denomination until my early 30's. A draw for me to Methodism was the respect they seemed to see the sacraments and not viewing communion as just a remembrance symbol. Different impressions may be made depending on a pastor or church body that aren't universal, which is probably what happened in your case. Different pastors may impress importance on what they want to - my former church, the pastor was great but he mainly focused on evangelism and bringing people to Christ, which isn't the typical primary focus for a lot of Methodist pastors.
And that's where I was at around this time. I was studying scripture and the history of scripture for the first time and I was very quickly seeing that a lot of what at least that particular Methodist church was teaching under that particular pastor wasn't exactly scripturally correct. So even though I had been confirmed not that long ago I just... didn't feel like I could be Methodist for the rest of my life, at least not in that church in that town. It was only later that I came to realize more and more that my beliefs based on study weren't lining up with Protestantism as a whole. But I didn't become Catholic because Papal infallibility and Papal Supremacy were things i knew I DIDN'T believe in. I had heard of the Orthodox Church in school but didn't know much about it, so I did some research, found the local church, visited a few times and I've hardly missed a Sunday since. But the view of the sacraments that my former pastor gave us in confirmation was one of the things that started it all.
 
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circuitrider

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Very interesting! As a child I was taught that the sacraments were symbols, it was only after reading the bible when I was 12-15 years old that I realized that, that wasn't scriptural. I have visited my old church on occasion and now there's a new Pastor who is very clear about that with baptism (but strangely communion is somehow still being seen as symbolic) but the one when I was there and who taught and confirmed my confirmation class clearly saw Both sacraments as pure symbolism and nothing more.

If you want to know the official understanding of communion in the UMC you need to read "This Holy Mystery." It is the official position of the Church.

http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/this-holy-mystery
 
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lucaspa

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Well that's good to know as that sounds much more like I've always believed it should be, I don't know what was up with my former church but it certainly didn't handle it that way...
Like any large denomination, there is variability from church to church and some regional variation. Also, like all "mainline" denominations, the UMC has to deal with Fundamentalists within the ranks. By "Fundamentalist" I do not mean a generic "conservative", but a religion based upon a series of pamphlets that has 5 basic statements of faith: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/5doctrines.html, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

Fundamentalism came out of the Reformed tradition, where there is "once saved, always saved". It also holds to a literal, inerrant "Word of God". Basically Biblical Literalism. Many UMC in the South have inroads of Fundamentalism. George Bush's church did, for instance. Over the years, the UMC has consistently resisted Fundamentalism and those that are most committed to it have had to form their own denominations, i.e. the Congregationalist Methodist Church.

Methodism, historically, came straight from the Anglican (Episcopal) Church. In fact, John Wesley was a bishop in the Anglican Church and never gave that up. Methodism was originally a movement within the Anglican Church. The split originally was political, not doctrinal, and occurred just after the American Revolutionary War. Most Methodists were in the American colonies. Wesley realized that fellow Americans were not going to regard members of the Church of England (Anglicans) favorably in the new country. Also, English Anglicans were not going to regard "traitor" Americans very favorably. So Wesley had his followers in America form their own church. Over the intervening 200+ years the 2 churches have taken slightly divergent courses so that, now, there are more (but still small) differences.

To add to Circuitrider's list of things that are different in the UMC:
1. Interpretation of the Bible. Methodists use the Wesley's "Quadrilateral" to interpret the Bible: http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/wesleyan-quadrilateral. The quadrilateral is:
(1) Scripture, (2) tradition, (3) reason, and (4) experience. All are brought to bear when we interpret scripture.

Basically, Methodist's believe that the Bible is primary when it comes to matters of salvation ("doctrine"). This comes directly from the Articles of Faith:
"Article V—Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation
The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation." http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1649

If you were to tell me (as some Fundamentalists do), that salvation depends on my believing a literal 6 day creation, then that would have to be proved by Biblical verses.

If it is not a matter of salvation, then we are supposed to use what Christians have thought before (tradition), our reason, and our and others experiences that are extrabiblical (experience). For instance, when Methodists contemplated the ordination of women, all these came into play: http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/commentary-why-do-united-methodists-ordain-women. Some Protestant denominations still use I Timothy 2:8-15 to deny ordination to women.

2. Sacraments. Methodists have only 2 sacraments: baptism and communion.

3. Salvation is a process. And you can lose salvation.
 
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rockytopva

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John Wesley... What is a Methodist? Our Pentecostal Holiness preachers are taught in the seminary that we are actually Methodist. And imho,the further we get from the precepts laid down by Wesley the worse off we are.

What is a Methodist? by John Wesley

1. We believe, indeed, that "all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God.” We believe the written word of God to be the only and sufficient rule both of Christian faith and practice.

2. We do not place our religion, or any part of it, in being attached to any peculiar mode of speaking, any quaint or uncommon set of expressions.

3. Our religion does not lie in doing what God has not enjoined, or abstaining from what he hath not forbidden. It does not lie in the form of our apparel, in the posture of our body, or the covering of our heads; nor yet in abstaining from marriage, or from meats and drinks, which are all good if received with thanksgiving.

4. Nor, lastly, is he distinguished by laying the whole stress of religion on any single part of it

5. "What then is the mark? Who is a Methodist, according to your own account?" I answer: A Methodist is one who has "the love of God shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost given unto him;" one who "loves the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind, and with all his strength. God is the joy of his heart, and the desire of his soul; which is constantly crying out, "Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee! My God and my all! Thou art the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever!"

6. He is therefore happy in God, yea, always happy, as having in him "a well of water springing up into everlasting life," and overflowing his soul with peace and joy. "Perfect love" having now "cast out fear," he "rejoices evermore." He "rejoices in the Lord always," even "in God his Saviour;" and in the Father, "through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom he hath now received the atonement." "Having" found "redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of his sins," he cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks back on the horrible pit out of which he is delivered; when he sees "all his transgressions blotted out as a cloud, and his iniquities as a thick cloud." He cannot but rejoice, whenever he looks on the state wherein he now is; "being justified freely, and having peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." For "he that believeth, hath the witness" of this "in himself;" being now the son of God by faith. "Because he is a son, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into his heart, crying, Abba, Father!" And "the Spirit itself beareth witness with his spirit, that he is a child of God." He rejoiceth also, whenever he looks forward, "in hope of the glory that shall be revealed;" yea, this his joy is full, and all his bones cry out, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to his abundant mercy, hath begotten me again to a living hope -- of an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for me!"

7. And he who hath this hope, thus "full of immortality, in everything giveth thanks;" as knowing that this (whatsoever it is) "is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning him." From him, therefore, he cheerfully receives all, saying, "Good is the will of the Lord;" and whether the Lord giveth or taketh away, equally "blessing the name of the Lord." For he hath "learned, in whatsoever state he is, therewith to be content." He knoweth "both how to be abased and how to abound

8. For indeed he "prays without ceasing." It is given him "always to pray, and not to faint.”

9. And while he thus always exercises his love to God, by praying without ceasing, rejoicing evermore, and in everything giving thanks, this commandment is written in his heart, "That he who loveth God, love his brother also." And he accordingly loves his neighbour as himself; he loves every man as his own soul. His heart is full of love to all mankind, to every child of "the Father of the spirits of all flesh

10. For he is "pure in heart." The love of God has purified his heart from all revengeful passions, from envy, malice, and wrath, from every unkind temper or malign affection. It hath cleansed him from pride and haughtiness of spirit, whereof alone cometh contention. And he hath now "put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering:" So that he "forbears and forgives, if he had a quarrel against any; even as God in Christ hath forgiven him." And indeed all possible ground for contention, on his part, is utterly cut off. For none can take from him what he desires; seeing he "loves not the world, nor" any of "the things of the world;" being now "crucified to the world, and the world crucified to him;" being dead to all that is in the world, both to "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life." For "all his desire is unto God, and to the remembrance of his name."

11. Agreeable to this his one desire, is the one design of his life, namely, "not to do his own will, but the will of Him that sent him." His one intention at all times and in all things is, not to please himself, but Him whom his soul loveth. He has a single eye. And because "his eye is single, his whole body is full of light." Indeed, where the loving eye of the soul is continually fixed upon God, there can be no darkness at all, "but the whole is light; as when the bright shining of a candle doth enlighten the house." God then reigns alone. All that is in the soul is holiness to the Lord. There is not a motion in his heart, but is according to his will. Every thought that arises points to Him, and is in obedience to the law of Christ.

12. And the tree is known by its fruits. For as he loves God, so he keeps his commandments; not only some, or most of them, but all, from the least to the greatest. He is not content to "keep the whole law, and offend in one point;" but has, in all points, "a conscience void of offence towards God and towards man."

13. All the commandments of God he accordingly keeps, and that with all his might. For his obedience is in proportion to his love, the source from whence it flows. And therefore, loving God with all his heart, he serves him with all his strength.

14. By consequence, whatsoever he doeth, it is all to the glory of God. His one invariable rule is this, "Whatsoever ye do, in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

15. Nor do the customs of the world at all hinder his "running the race that is set before him." He knows that vice does not lose its nature, though it becomes ever so fashionable; and remembers, that "every man is to give an account of himself to God." He cannot, therefore, "follow" even "a multitude to do evil." He cannot "fare sumptuously every day," or "make provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof." He cannot "lay up treasures upon earth," any more than he can take fire into his bosom. He cannot "adorn himself," on any pretence, "with gold or costly apparel." He cannot join in or countenance any diversion which has the least tendency to vice of any kind. He cannot "speak evil" of his neighbour, any more than he can lie either for God or man. He cannot utter an unkind word of any one; for love keeps the door of his lips. He cannot speak "idle words;" "no corrupt communication" ever "comes out of his mouth," as is all that "which is" not "good to the use of edifying," not "fit to minister grace to the hearers." But "whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are" justly "of good report," he thinks, and speaks, and acts, "adorning the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in all things."

16. Lastly. As he has time, he "does good unto all men;" unto neighbours and strangers, friends and enemies: And that in every possible kind; not only to their bodies, by "feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those that are sick or in prison;" but much more does he labour to do good to their souls, as of the ability which God giveth; to awaken those that sleep in death; to bring those who are awakened to the atoning blood, that, "being justified by faith, they may have peace with God;" and to provoke those who have peace with God to abound more in love and in good works.

17. These are the principles and practices of our sect; these are the marks of a true Methodist. By these alone do those who are in derision so called, desire to be distinguished from other men. If any man say, "Why, these are only the common fundamental principles of Christianity!" thou hast said; so I mean; this is the very truth; I know they are no other; and I would to God both thou and all men knew, that I, and all who follow my judgment, do vehemently refuse to be distinguished from other men, by any but the common principles of Christianity, -- the plain, old Christianity that I teach, renouncing and detesting all other marks of distinction. And having the mind that was in Christ, he so walks as Christ also walked.

18. By these marks, by these fruits of a living faith, do we labour to distinguish ourselves from the unbelieving world from all those whose minds or lives are not according to the Gospel of Christ.
 
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lucaspa

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The thing I've found is that, at least in my personal experience, even a lot of the laypeople in a Methodist parish may not know what the UMC actually teaches (or don't care). It may be very clear in the style of the sermons and the hymns and the overall atmosphere, but the particulars may not have a spotlight shown on them and declared with a 'Methodists believe...' or 'the UMC teaches...', unless you're in a theology-centric setting (I don't really remember that we touched on actual theological issues during Confirmation, but that it was more a general Christian Living course).
I would agree that most laypeople are fuzzy about what UMC doctrine actually is. I know my parents were. I got a more thorough grounding (Articles of Faith) during confirmation and even more deep when I did the God and Country badge for Boy Scouts. That's where I came across the Wesley Quadrilateral. But I would doubt that most Methodists would recognize the term. :(

I was raised Methodist. However, I now consider that just a fortuitous occurrence. Now that I am older and have thought about faith and doctrine, I choose the UMC. At least, I do so unless and until the church is stolen out from under me by those Fundamentalists or "right-wingers" you mentioned. Should that happen, my choice would be the Episcopal Church.
 
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Soma Seer

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Methodism was originally a movement within the Anglican Church.

I hope that no one minds, but I've a question due to following this thread. (I think that it at least dovetails with the OP.)

About 15 years ago, I attended a wedding performed by a UMC minister. The service was very similar to a RC Mass, in that all the same rituals--including wording--were included, although some were performed in a different order. But it was very familiar and, thus, comforting to me. (I was somewhat raised in the RCC.)

In recent years, I've been studying various Christian faiths online and viewing the websites of many churches, including those of the UMC. I notice that only one church within 15-20 minutes of my home performs a more solemn service; all the rest of them seem more Evangelical in nature, with large video screens, rock-type music, the minister in plain clothes, etc.

Has the UMC changed so much in the past 15 years that many, if not most, of them are less reverent than they used to be? (I say reverent for lack of a better word; hopefully, Methodist members here know what I mean and don't take offense.) That is, has the UMC relaxed its regulations with regard to how Sunday services are conducted?

Thank you,

SS
 
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circuitrider

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Soma Seer, it just varies greatly from local church to local church. If you visited my church you probably would also feel that it looks similar to the mass. I have members who grew up Roman Catholic who feel very comfortable with our sacramental services. But other UMC churches are very casual in the way they do communion.

The UMC has recommendation for the proper liturgy for communion but not everyone follows those recommendation. At times I wish they'd make those recommendation church law. But that isn't for me to decide.
 
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circuitrider

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3. Salvation is a process. And you can lose salvation.

A couple of minor corrections. As far as we know Wesley was never ordained a Bishop. His own theology was that Bishop was the same office as Elder and with duties of supervision.

Also you can't "lose" your salvation. You can walk away from it. The myth that some have about Methodists is that we believe we can accidently become unsaved. That isn't true. We can resist God's grace but it is never lost just do to our human weakness.
 
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Soma Seer

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Soma Seer, it just varies greatly from local church to local church. If you visited my church you probably would also feel that it looks similar to the mass. I have members who grew up Roman Catholic who feel very comfortable with our sacramental services. But other UMC churches are very casual in the way they do communion.

The UMC has recommendation for the proper liturgy for communion but not everyone follows those recommendation. At times I wish they'd make those recommendation church law. But that isn't for me to decide.

Thank you for clearing up that issue for me, though I still feel sad that all but one UM church near me has a too-casual service, IMO. Ah, well. Not much that I can do about it. :(
 
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Qyöt27

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Soma Seer, it just varies greatly from local church to local church. If you visited my church you probably would also feel that it looks similar to the mass. I have members who grew up Roman Catholic who feel very comfortable with our sacramental services. But other UMC churches are very casual in the way they do communion.
Ours was/is too, and there was enough tension concerning the Contemporary service being held in the Sanctuary that eventually it got moved into the Fellowship Hall. At least unless there's a combined service.

When we had my cousin's wedding reception, my grandmother gave her neighbor (an Adrian Dominican Sister) a tour of the building. She commented that it looked like it could be a Catholic parish.
 
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Celticflower

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The prayer of confession is intentionally generic as I don't know what your sins are. We don't happen to use a prayer of confession that often in my congregation. But the purpose is to offer forgiveness to those who repent not to innumerate specific sins. It is between you and God as to what sin is in your life.

In UMCs that use the prayer of confession regularly it is often a starting point and is followed by a time of silent confession for each person to personally confess whatever they need to confess. Many people would rather just forego the whole thing (the non-denom I go to makes no mention of confessing sins, even before communion), but having a set time in the service just for confession tends to bring things to mind. It is one of the things I miss.
 
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Dave-W

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A prayer of confession is one of those symbolic and reminding acts. It isn't meant to be the sole place one experiences redemption. A prayer of confession is corporate; ....
Have you ever read the text of the Al Chet ["for the sin"] prayer recited congregationaly in Jewish synagogues (including most Messianic synagogues) on Yom Kippur?

It is exactly that.
 
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abysmul

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I was raised Methodist but I never really felt close to God in that church as a child and I never learned what the specifics of Methodism were, not even in confirmation when what I was wrestling with was whether or not there was a reason to be Methodist as opposed to Baptist, or Catholic, or Lutheran... I still don't know how Methodism differs from anything else other than what I observed in practice and may or may not have misunderstood...

Interesting, I had a similar experience: I grew up in a Methodist Church (actually there are a lot in my home town) and we were also never taught anything specific about Methodism, ever. The subject never came up, even during confirmation. Over time I spoke to Methodists (locally) and their experience was the same. Long after I left the church of my upbringing I spoke with some friends of my family about Methodism and they had little answers... they simply grew up there and that's just where they went. My dad even confessed that he knew nothing of Methodism, but it was a good church because it was like family...
 
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RomansFiveEight

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Interesting, I had a similar experience: I grew up in a Methodist Church (actually there are a lot in my home town) and we were also never taught anything specific about Methodism, ever. The subject never came up, even during confirmation. Over time I spoke to Methodists (locally) and their experience was the same. Long after I left the church of my upbringing I spoke with some friends of my family about Methodism and they had little answers... they simply grew up there and that's just where they went. My dad even confessed that he knew nothing of Methodism, but it was a good church because it was like family...

I hate to hear this, but I do believe it.

But it does go both ways. An eternal frustration of mine is how little folks seem to know, in my own congregations, about methodism. So I've preached on it, I've led studies (few attended), I even did an "adult re-confirmation" one year; I only had one youth for confirmation so after talking with her, we decided to invite the adults in the congregation as well to do confirmation WITH her. Only a few showed up. Those that did said they learned alot, though some still say things or ask questions that discourage me, because they are things I've preached/taught/led and tried to explain. Some people genuinely do go to church simply because they like the people in it, and really aren't that concerned about the doctrine and polity.

I'm sure that any UM Pastor would gladly answer questions about polity and doctrine. However, I will admit, that in a church this large; we do have some that slip through the cracks. We do have Clergy "facebook groups", for example, and once in a while I'll see a statement or even a question that just does not fit with United Methodism at all. Sometimes, in areas where another theology dominates, it can rub off. For example, in Catholic dominated parts of New England I see a lot more liturgically-literate Pastors who have much more liturgical worship services. That's not a bad thing at all, actually. But, sometimes in the deep south, you see fundamentalist southern Baptist theology and ideology creeping into United Methodism, and that can be harmful.

There are a lot of people in the world, good and bad. We got an e-mail recently about a man who had joined the candidacy (the process to become a Pastor), and was quickly kicked out when the District Committee on Ministry found social media posts where he thought Americans should take up arms and rise up against Muslims and Gays and exterminate them. When questions, he affirmed his belief that those groups should be executed indiscriminately, and that it's a Christians responsibility to take up arms against them. Though he was kicked out of the candidacy and authorities alerted (though, you can't do anything until he ACTS on this manifesto), he has been contacting area UM churches claiming to be a UM Pastor, sometimes claiming to be a UM lay speaker (he's neither and has never been either), asking to preach. Scary stuff.
 
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JCFantasy23

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Interesting, I had a similar experience: I grew up in a Methodist Church (actually there are a lot in my home town) and we were also never taught anything specific about Methodism, ever. The subject never came up, even during confirmation. Over time I spoke to Methodists (locally) and their experience was the same. Long after I left the church of my upbringing I spoke with some friends of my family about Methodism and they had little answers... they simply grew up there and that's just where they went. My dad even confessed that he knew nothing of Methodism, but it was a good church because it was like family...

I see this happening in every denomination though, not exclusive to Methodism (well, some being raised in a church and not questioning the denomination deeply). I think a lot of people don't care about official stances or looking deeper into theology. Nothing wrong with that if their heart is in the right place and they walk with God, but it seems common.

When I became a Methodist, I wasn't told anything about it either. I know as an adult, when becoming a new member of some churches, such as Catholic or Lutheran as just two examples, there are classes and education about the faith before officially joining. Didn't happen with me and UMC, but I had self-educated before trying to join.
 
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Soma Seer

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...People are more likely to select a church because of worship style than theology.

I fully agree with that statement, as it applies to me. I--a "bad" RC in terms of disagreeing with much RCC dogma--still feel a tug toward the RC Mass. o_O
 
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Dave-W

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Some people genuinely do go to church simply because they like the people in it, and really aren't that concerned about the doctrine and polity.
I read an article recently addressed to pastors (can't remember where I saw it) telling them that in all likelihood, many of their most productive and involved congregants believe very differently than they and their denomination do. They are there for the people, not the doctrines or practices.

Your statement here R-5-8 seems to bear that out.
 
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