Can Science ...

x141 · Oct 29, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
In other words, you have no such examples.

What you call "creation from nothing", I call "imagination" - which is not from nothing, as it is something that is produced by your pre-existing physical brain.

It's not really a "something" either (well, not a physical 'something'). Rather, it's an abstract. A concept. An idea. You know... the kind of things imagination produces.

Are you your imagination? or is your imagination you?

Vibration is not abstract is it?

durangodawood · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
So is Consciousness (as in who we believe ourselves to be) not a thing since it is an action of the brain?

If I understand correctly, thats exactly what the Buddha meant. There is no ultimate thing "me". Its more of an ongoing activity.

durangodawood · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
So your brain has nothing to do with running ... but music does ... why not say your fingers make music ...

I'm just distinguishing between a thing/object and an activity.
Music is essentially an activity/action, for both musician and listener. There's very little thingness for us to grasp.

durangodawood · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
I tried to set the guitar in the corner and let it play, but it wouldn't listen to me.

Youve heard that Chet Atkins anecdote....?

Ana the Ist · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
I tried to set the guitar in the corner and let it play, but it wouldn't listen to me.

Lol no kidding

Chris B · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
(in it's purest form) prove that who you believe yourself to be as consciousness exists?

No. Can anything?
"Prove" is a tough one for any rigorous usage of "prove."

Science has already proved me with a variety of pieces of evidence to show that my consciousness is not what it most easily takes itself to be: "me, or the most important or governing bit of me."
The experiments of Libet, for a start.

Chris B · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
The fundamental truth of consciousness is it's ability to create something out of nothing which is exhibited in everything that consciousness touches.

Make something, certainly. But it's pretty good at mirages. Or just possibly successive illusions, though that runs back to the unfalsifiable.

GoldenBoy89 · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
(in it's purest form) prove that who you believe yourself to be as consciousness exists?

Science doesn't "prove" anything. It only seeks to explain, in the most naturalistic terms, what is going on in the universe. We can only get as close as our explanations allow us and considering that we only have language to go by, there may be some aspects of reality that we will never have adequate or satisfactory explanations for.

Llewelyn Stevenson · Oct 29, 2015

KCfromNC said:
Huh? Consciousness is just one of the things the brain does. It doesn't have magical powers to create reality out of nothingness. Heck, I can't even use it to conjure up a doughnut for breakfast this morning. No matter how hard I try, my plate is still empty.

I can conjure up a doughnut for breakfast: I go into the bakery and buy one. My conscience tells me that's the easiest way to get it. This must be a discussion for philosophers or quantum scientists.

Eudaimonist · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
(in it's purest form) prove that who you believe yourself to be as consciousness exists?

I don't think that this is the job of science. Science assumes in its philosophical foundation that we are conscious entities that can observe the natural world. Science is not for the sake of proving this.

eudaimonia,

Mark

KCfromNC · Oct 29, 2015

Llewelyn Stevenson said:
I can conjure up a doughnut for breakfast: I go into the bakery and buy one. My conscience tells me that's the easiest way to get it. This must be a discussion for philosophers or quantum scientists.

Yeah, but in that case it is the vending machine making the doughnut appear ex nihilo, not my brain.

x141 · Oct 29, 2015

durangodawood said:
Youve heard that Chet Atkins anecdote....?

No I haven't; now if you had quoted Pooh ...

durangodawood · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
No I haven't; now if you had quoted Pooh ...

Apparently, Chet was warming up before a session, and someone walked by and heard him and said "man what a great sounding guitar!" So Chet put the guitar on the stand and said "well, how does it sound now?"

(Something like that)

x141 · Oct 29, 2015

Chris B said:
Make something, certainly. But it's pretty good at mirages. Or just possibly successive illusions, though that runs back to the unfalsifiable.

It is certainly the pit one falls into, or in another analogy, the garden that a serpent appears in ... remembering (by analogy) that is is the garden of God.

x141 · Oct 29, 2015

durangodawood said:
Apparently, Chet was warming up before a session, and someone walked by and heard him and said "man what a great sounding guitar!" So Chet put the guitar on the stand and said "well, how does it sound now?"

(Something like that)

I had a similar situation happen to me, but I had picked up a crappy guitar, and when I began playing one fella turned to the other and said, see, it's not the guitar.

durangodawood · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
I had a similar situation happen to me, but I had picked up a crappy guitar, and when I began playing one fella turned to the other and said, see, it's not the guitar.

Ha. Nice.

x141 · Oct 29, 2015

Llewelyn Stevenson said:
I can conjure up a doughnut for breakfast: I go into the bakery and buy one. My conscience tells me that's the easiest way to get it. This must be a discussion for philosophers or quantum scientists.

Luke 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

It's a fair bet that he wasn't a quantum scientist ...

dcarrera · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
(in it's purest form) prove that who you believe yourself to be as consciousness exists?

Can you even define consciousness? How can either science, or anything for that matter, falsify something that we cannot define?

x141 · Oct 29, 2015

dcarrera said:
Can you even define consciousness? How can either science, or anything for that matter, falsify something that we cannot define?

The sense of self.

Crowns&Laurels · Oct 29, 2015

x141 said:
(in it's purest form) prove that who you believe yourself to be as consciousness exists?

Solipsism is the theory that one's self is the only thing one thing that can be known to exist.

Can Science ...

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