The New Covenant and Daniels 70th week...
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Notrash
Senior Member
The kingdom of God/Christ is only within the soul/spirit. The things of dan 9:24 are accomplished subjectively and personally by submission to his authority and rule.
The indignation for example is stopped by personally, subjectively ceasing from animal sacrifice. And tge indignation of God having temporarily favored a eace of people until his seed would come (Gen 59:1-10) is ended by the truth that all peoples, nations, tounges are 'Gods people" through faith in his visitation among but not exclusively to the jews.
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Correct but the Israelites hasn't submitted to God in obedience yet nor has all of Israel been completely regathered. The Israelites are still following the Jewish laws established in the torah, the rabbinical laws and the mitzvot, which includes animal sacrifice. Once a new temple is built, sacrifices would resume and the teachings of preterism would be exposed as a form of mythology having never been fulfilled.
Btw, there's no Gen 59:1-10.
Well that's not entirely true. The covenant with Noah has nothing to do with Daniel 9:27 unless you're arguing about the genealogy of Noah. I don't see the connection between Noah and the redemption of the Jewish people in the prophecy of Daniel.
Now would you be so kind and see if you can interpet what Eb said in the post below and how all he wrote relates to Daniel 9:24? I don't see the connect. Maybe it's my non-preterist mindset?
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But look Eb, the bible said it is not finished.
Ezra 5:16 NKJV Then the same Sheshbazzar came and laid the foundation of the house of God which is in Jerusalem; but from that time even until now it has been under construction, and it is not finished.”
btw Eb, how does John 19:30 fulfilled Daniel 9:24? Does it have anything to do with an F word?
Also read Dan 29:4 Eb. How do you anoint the most holy in Dan 29:4 when He's crucified in John 19:30?
Daniel 9:24 NKJV
24 “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
24 “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
You have to admit Eb. "Preterism = Attempted Confusionism"
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You're kidding right? You move from Daniel's prophecy, to the historical book of Ezra where Israel returned from the 70 year exile to rebuild the temple? That's really reaching. You do realize Ezra and Nehemiah are not prophets don't you? They basically recording how the temple and the city was rebuilt after the 70 year exile, which Daniel talks about that in Daniel 9:1-6. Jeremiah prophesied it from God in Jeremiah 29:10.
If you read the entire book of Ezra you might understand what's going on. Don't you even realize that temple was completed under Ezra, Zerubbabel, and Jeshua? Zechariah 4:8, 9 also speaks of this:
8 Also the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
9 “The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands will finish it. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me to you.
Now...go back to Ezra 5:1, 2...and you'll find Zerubbabel and Jehsua right there...and as Zechariah said they finished the temple.
You have read your own meaning into the passage you provided. Furthermore, have you ever read Ezra? He records the completion of the temple...IT WAS FINISHED...all you needed to do was read Ezra 6:13-15:
13 Then Tattenai, the governor of the province beyond the River, Shethar-bozenai and their colleagues carried out the decree with all diligence, just as King Darius had sent.
14 And the elders of the Jews were successful in building through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they finished building according to the command of the God of Israel and the decree of Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.
15 This temple was completed on the third day of the month Adar; it was the sixth year of the reign of King Darius.
The temple was rebuilt by Ezra and the walls of the city were rebuilt by Nehemiah. That's what those books are all about!
No. It comes from reading scripture properly. Have you carefully read Daniel 9:24? No one could EVER do those things but Christ.
Have you really read that Psalm3704? I'm going to ask you who can do all those things except Christ??? I mean...you really need to think about what that passage of the prophecy says. I'm not believing you're missing it!Has nothing to do with preterism...it has to do with the truth of scripture...and you're basically denying the truth of scripture. I don't worry about "isms", I'm concern with the truth of scripture.
What I will admit to, is your inability to correlate scripture properly...so once again I'll point you to Hebrews 9:23 which says:
23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Do you get that? Now, Hebrews 9:24:
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
So what you need to admit is your reading is incorrect. The point Hebrews 9 is making is that EVERYTHING God instructed Israel to build were COPIES of the true in heaven. Christ anointed the most holy place (which is heaven). with His presence there after His resurrection.
Why do you think those creatures in Isaiah's vision (Isaiah 6:3) and John's vision (Revelation 4:8) are saying HOLY, HOLY. HOLY??? Where do you think the most holy place is???
This is what you have to admit Psalm3704, that your rendering of many passages miss the mark because you read into them instead of reading what they say.
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No I'm not kidding. I'm still waiting for you to clarify what you wrote in the post below. Otherwise it's not finished.
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If I have to clarify that...when I've provided scripture to support it...nevermind..you just don't get it.
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Notrash
Senior Member
Precepts,
The date of 536 is vased on Ptolemy.
Antsey and Mauro found duscrepancies of 79 yrs between the biblical record and Ptolemies sources. And they substantiated their views with archeology.
536-79 =457 BC.
457-483 = 26AD
+ 1 for no yr zero comes to @ 27 Ad.
The people of that day were looking for him. They knew that they were in the timeframe of his coming.
The date of 536 is vased on Ptolemy.
Antsey and Mauro found duscrepancies of 79 yrs between the biblical record and Ptolemies sources. And they substantiated their views with archeology.
536-79 =457 BC.
457-483 = 26AD
+ 1 for no yr zero comes to @ 27 Ad.
The people of that day were looking for him. They knew that they were in the timeframe of his coming.
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precepts
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YesNotrash,
You can't be for real and conveying subliminal messages in your spelling.
What is your motive?
The Cyrus the Great Cylinder
The first known Charter of Rights of Nations, 539 BCE.
Edited by: Shapour Ghasemi - See more at:
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/cyrus/cyrus_charter.php
You can't be for real and conveying subliminal messages in your spelling.
What is your motive?
The Cyrus the Great Cylinder
The first known Charter of Rights of Nations, 539 BCE.
Edited by: Shapour Ghasemi - See more at:
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/cyrus/cyrus_charter.php
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Call it what you want...truth is truth. The fact that you can't understand Daniel 9:24 is your issue. Even most futurist know that is fulfilled by Christ. This is the passage:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
Every bit of that is fulfilled by Christ. For you not to understand that is quite alarming.
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Gideon
Member
Here is an abbreviated answer. If you want more detail we would need to discuss each point.
The Cross of Christ achieved these things:
- It finished transgression for those who believe, so the demands of law do not have to be charged against them.
- It made an end of sins by removing the accumulated sin temporarily covered under the old covenant, as well as removing in advance sin committed under the new covenant.
- It reconciled us to God whose justice was satisfied by the propitiatory sacrifice of his Son.
- It enabled the righteousness of Christ to be credited to those that believe on him irrespective of the wrongs they may have done.
- It sealed the vision, authenticating Jesus as the One from God and his ministry as the fulfilment of the promise.
- It raised and anointed a new temple, the Church, holy to the Lord, not made by man’s hands.
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Ok Psalm3704. Let's look at the first part of Daniel 9:24:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression...
The 70 weeks (which is weeks of years), have been decreed for Daniel's people. Daniel people are the Jews. What transgression do you think the Jews have committed that is greater than the crucifixion of Christ?
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They rejected Christ. How does this prove Daniel's 70th week was completed in 70 AD?
You also need descendants from all 12 sons of Jacob for all of Israel to be saved. They haven't been gathered yet for 2600 years. It's utterly impossible to complete Daniel's 70th in the first century without Christ and the 144,000 in Israel at the same time.
Daniel 9:24 could not have be completed if Romans 11:26-27 is still pending.
Daniel 9:24
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
Romans 11:26-29
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
When I take away their sins.
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
When I take away their sins.
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
==========================
Just an off topic but did you know John Calvin actually thought the election in Romans 11:28 are those predestined by God before creation under his own doctrine of Unconditional Election?
He was absolutely clueless and didn't realized they are in reference to Jacob's descendants: 144,000.
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His finished work on the cross applies to the people that have accepted it. Gentile = Done! Jews = Unfinished!
God promised Jacob his descendants will be saved (Romans 11:26-29). Not all of Israel heard the gospel when Christ was on earth.
Therefore, did the 144,000 turned to Christ in the first century?
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The idea that all of the descendants of Jacob will be saved at some future point in time is not scriptural.
Sadly, only a remnant will be saved.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
(Paul was an Israelite who was not cast away, because of his faith in Christ. The New Covenant was made first with Israelites like Paul.)
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(During Paul's time there was a remnant of Israelites, who believed in Christ.)
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(Salvation has always been by faith. No one but Christ has ever kept the Law. Nobody in the Old Testament was saved by keeping the Law. They were saved by Faith.)
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
(Those broken off, has to be a reference to the unbelieving Israelites.)
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
(They can only be grafted back in, through faith in Christ, through the New Covenant.)
Rom 11:26 And “so” all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
("so" is an adverb of manner indicated by the Greek. It is not an adverb of time.)
(Many modern Bible scholars have changed the word “so” to the word “then” which completely changes the intended meaning of the verse.)
G3779
οὕτωhoutō
hoo'-to
Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.
From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.
This could also be written, “And in this manner all Israel shall be saved…” which refers back to verse 23. They can be grafted back in through Faith in Christ. Many people say this means all of the descendants of Jacob will be saved at some future point in time. However, multiple verses in Romans 9, 10 and 11 say the opposite. This has been clearly demonstrated by the words of the Apostle Paul.
One verse cannot change all of the other verses that come before it.
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Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
This is the New Covenant found in Jer. 31:31-34, Matt. 26:28 , Gal. 3:16, and Heb. 7:12, 8:6-13.
It is now in effect, based on Heb. 8:6.
It is not waiting on a future fulfillment.
It is being fulfilled now as the descendants of Jacob continue to accept the New Covenant.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
(Paul started Romans chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites, those who bowed to Baal and the remnant who would not. In this verse we also have two groups. There were those blinded to who was the Messiah and were broken off of the Olive Tree and there was the “election” who accepted Jesus and remained in the Olive Tree. The Gentiles were grafted in among the election of Israelites. )
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph_2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(God is no longer a respecter of persons. Christ has broken down the wall of separation between all peoples.)
The descendants of Jacob can only be grafted back into faithful Israel by faith in Christ. This is the "so", manner of their salvation.
The Church is not a parenthesis in God's plan. The Church is the Plan.
If we truly love the Jewish people we must tell them the truth.
God never promised that all of the descendants of Jacob would be saved, because all of Israel is not Israel.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(All of Jacob's descendants are not included in Israel of the Promise.)
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
(Being a descendant of Jacob does not make one a child of God.)
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Sadly, only a remnant will be saved.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
(Paul was an Israelite who was not cast away, because of his faith in Christ. The New Covenant was made first with Israelites like Paul.)
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(During Paul's time there was a remnant of Israelites, who believed in Christ.)
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(Salvation has always been by faith. No one but Christ has ever kept the Law. Nobody in the Old Testament was saved by keeping the Law. They were saved by Faith.)
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
(Those broken off, has to be a reference to the unbelieving Israelites.)
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
(They can only be grafted back in, through faith in Christ, through the New Covenant.)
Rom 11:26 And “so” all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
("so" is an adverb of manner indicated by the Greek. It is not an adverb of time.)
(Many modern Bible scholars have changed the word “so” to the word “then” which completely changes the intended meaning of the verse.)
G3779
οὕτωhoutō
hoo'-to
Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce.
From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.
This could also be written, “And in this manner all Israel shall be saved…” which refers back to verse 23. They can be grafted back in through Faith in Christ. Many people say this means all of the descendants of Jacob will be saved at some future point in time. However, multiple verses in Romans 9, 10 and 11 say the opposite. This has been clearly demonstrated by the words of the Apostle Paul.
One verse cannot change all of the other verses that come before it.
………………………………..........................................................
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
This is the New Covenant found in Jer. 31:31-34, Matt. 26:28 , Gal. 3:16, and Heb. 7:12, 8:6-13.
It is now in effect, based on Heb. 8:6.
It is not waiting on a future fulfillment.
It is being fulfilled now as the descendants of Jacob continue to accept the New Covenant.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
(Paul started Romans chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites, those who bowed to Baal and the remnant who would not. In this verse we also have two groups. There were those blinded to who was the Messiah and were broken off of the Olive Tree and there was the “election” who accepted Jesus and remained in the Olive Tree. The Gentiles were grafted in among the election of Israelites. )
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph_2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(God is no longer a respecter of persons. Christ has broken down the wall of separation between all peoples.)
The descendants of Jacob can only be grafted back into faithful Israel by faith in Christ. This is the "so", manner of their salvation.
The Church is not a parenthesis in God's plan. The Church is the Plan.
If we truly love the Jewish people we must tell them the truth.
God never promised that all of the descendants of Jacob would be saved, because all of Israel is not Israel.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(All of Jacob's descendants are not included in Israel of the Promise.)
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
(Being a descendant of Jacob does not make one a child of God.)
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Don't be so ignorant. The remnant the bible spoke of that will be save is not all 144,000 from the tribe of Benjamin.
How, by telling them their covenant with God made through Moses has been reneged because you want to implement Plan B?
Isn't bible prophecy 101 fun?
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Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
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Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
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