What if your friend is a Trans?

The Portuguese Baptist

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I told her about this stuff, told her she's beautiful the way she is... she hates me now

Wow! She's a bit ridiculous. Did you confront her with the Bible? Did you confront her with her own conscience? Try to follow Jesus' advice and bring one or two more friends who agree with you to try to persuade her away from going ahead with it.

At least you tried... I'm sorry, my advice was wrong...

Your advice was not wrong. That would have been the right thing to do. She just simply does not want to accept the truth. The reason why it did not work was not because of a problem with the method, but a problem with the girl.
 
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Devin (Camary) Vaughn

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Wow! She's a bit ridiculous. Did you confront her with the Bible? Did you confront her with her own conscience? Try to follow Jesus' advice and bring one or two more friends who agree with you to try to persuade her away from going ahead with it.
well, I was just starting that, then she called it "ideology" and said that sould don't exist and that its a one way ticket to death.

what she doesn't know is that there is a switch on the railroad, one s very beautiful and fun... leads to a fire pit, and the other is very old and worn... leads to a beautiful city.
 
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Thrash Metalhead

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You keep turning away from my arguments. I attacked your idea that God allows for transsexualism, I have proven you wrong, you have been unable to prove me wrong or to biblically support your case, and yet you do not admit that you are wrong!

Do we really have to do things that make us happy? Do we? Do we not instead have to do things that make God happy? Do we not have to obey his commands (John 15:9-10)? If what you want for your life differs from what God wants for your life, will you do you want? Really? Then why do you call yourself a Christian if you do not live like one? Have you never realised that the apostles never did what they truly wanted, but instead obeyed Jesus' command to go out into the world?

Do we really have to love ourselves more? Do we? Do we not have to love God more than ourselves (Matthew 22:37-39)? Think about what you have just said.

‘Maybe God wants us to do it, maybe he doesn't!’ Yeah! Let's just do whatever we feel like! If God likes it, great! If not, too bad! Who cares? (Do you really think that this mindset is reasonable, given that you call yourself a Christian?)

All in all, you need to understand that we cannot always do what we want. We must do what God wants, instead. Certainly, sometimes, we cannot tell what he wants for us, but we must seek his guidance at all times. We should delight in obeying the Lord (Psalms 1; Psalms 119). Nevertheless, in this situation, through the Bible, we can know exactly what he wants: he wants that girl to stay as she is, because God hates transsexualism (and I have already shown why we know this). Our conscience can tell us the same thing: it is wrong (and I have already shown that as well). Therefore, we must discourage her from committing this sinful act, not support it.

Thrash, this is my plea to you: think about what you are saying. Actually think about whether it really is reasonable for you to say that we should do whatever makes us happy. Think about how that life philosophy would impact your relationship with God. Please do not perceive this as an attack on you. Just think about the consequences of your idea and judge for yourself.
I know we can't always do what we want but there's those times where we do things that make us happy because it makes us feel good about ourselves.

Of course, we should love God first but we should also love ourselves too. If you can't love yourself then how are you going to love the life God gave you and live it to the fullest when you're always feeling depressed?

If the girl wants to change her sex then who are we to tell her otherwise? You can't just impose your beliefs onto her if she doesn't follow it. Let her live her own life and eventually she'll have to face her Creator and He'll be the one to do the judging, not us.

We should be loving one another, not judging them. Isn't that what Jesus taught?
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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well, I was just starting that, then she called it "ideology" and said that sould don't exist and that its a one way ticket to death.

what she doesn't know is that there is a switch on the railroad, one s very beautiful and fun... leads to a fire pit, and the other is very old and worn... leads to a beautiful city.

I am confused... What did she call a ‘one-way ticket to death’? The ‘ideology’ that no-one should be transsexual? According to her, why does that lead to death?

Get someone else to go with you and talk to her. If you were about to talk about the Bible, and she refused to listen, maybe she will listen if more people talk (‘that ever matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses’ [Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16]).
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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I know we can't always do what we want but there's those times where we do things that make us happy because it makes us feel good about ourselves.

Of course, we should love God first but we should also love ourselves too. If you can't love yourself then how are you going to love the life God gave you and live it to the fullest when you're always feeling depressed?

If the girl wants to change her sex then who are we to tell her otherwise? You can't just impose your beliefs onto her if she doesn't follow it. Let her live her own life and eventually she'll have to face her Creator and He'll be the one to do the judging, not us.

We should be loving one another, not judging them. Isn't that what Jesus taught?

The fact that something makes us feel good is no good reason for a Christian to do something. Only if you are able to understand that what you plan to do is in accordance with God's will can you do it. You cannot do something that makes you happy if it requires disobeying the Lord — as is the case of a sex change.

‘If I can't love myself, then how am I going to love the life God gave me and live it to the fullest when I'm always feeling depressed?’ It is not very difficult to understand. Firstly, we can ask God to free us from depression. Secondly, ‘living my life to the fullest’ does not mean ‘doing whatever I want’ or ‘doing something solely because I want it’ or ‘disobeying God’ — in other words, if you think that, in order to ‘live your live to the fullest’ (which is not even a biblical concept), you have to disobey God, then you should not by any means ‘live your life to the fullest’. Thirdly, loving the life that God gave me includes precisely respecting its Creator, recognising that his commands are always the best for me and obeying him. To sum up, the idea of ‘living one's life to the fullest’ should never get in the way of our obedience to God; the Bible does not say, ‘Live thy life to the fullest’, but it says, ‘You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.’ (Leviticus 18:4-5)

‘If the girl wants to change her sex, then who are we to tell her otherwise?’ We are the children of God, who have been given the mission of spreading the Gospel and bringing as many as possible to repentance. We must tell the truth unto others, showing them that they are living in sin, disobeying God, and we must persuade them to repent and turn to God, who offers forgiveness, so that they may be saved. We are allowed and even commanded to point to other people's faults (I will talk more about this issue later on).

Of course I cannot impose my beliefs on her! But I have never wanted to do that! Far be it from me to force, oblige or blackmail someone into converting to Christianity! However, I can persuade them. In fact, I am commanded to do that (Matthew 28:18-20). I can tell them why they should become Christians, share with them my testimony of the peace I have found in Christ, tell them the importance of obeying God's laws, encourage them to do so and reprehend them when they do not do so. That is what I am doing. I want Devin to show to that girl that what she intends to do is wrong, and I want him to dissuade her from doing it — this is biblical.

‘Let her live her own life and eventually she'll have to face her Creator and he'll be the one to do the judging, not us.’ — ‘Right! Let her go to Hell! Who cares? Why should even we move a finger to prevent that from happening?’ — I utterly disagree with such a mind set. I prefer to abide by what Charles Spurgeon once wrote: ‘If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for.’

‘We should be loving one another, not judging them. Isn't that what Jesus taught?’ That is a very good question. Yes, Jesus said, ‘Do not judge, or you too will be judged’ (Matthew 7:1). However, this probably one of the most misquoted sentences of Jesus. You cannot just simply use this standard to silence your opponents. Look closely at the verse: you will notice that it refers especially to cases where your judging someone else would mean that, by the same standard, that person would be able to judge you as well. In other words, we are not perfect, so we should not demand perfection from others. And we must not judge others for failing in areas where we are (or could be) also prone to fail. We must not be hypocritical. We must not say that someone is not a Christian because of a certain sin, because they could say the same about us.

Nevertheless, this verse does not mean we should never judge anything or anyone. As someone put it, ‘it does not mean we should not judge actions’. We are commanded to judge others when have done or will do something wrong — not as demanding perfection from them (that would be hypocritical), not as saying they will lose salvation (that would be untrue), but as warning them of sin and begging them to repent and turn from their ways.

For an in-depth analysis of this verse, I highly recommend that you read the article http://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-judge.html, of which I shall now quote the last two paragraphs:

‘Christians are often accused of “judging” or intolerance when they speak out against sin. But opposing sin is not wrong. Holding aloft the standard of righteousness naturally defines unrighteousness and draws the slings and arrows of those who choose sin over godliness. John the Baptist incurred the ire of Herodias when he spoke out against her adultery with Herod (Mark 6:18–19). She eventually silenced John, but she could not silence the truth (Isaiah 40:8).

‘Believers are warned against judging others unfairly or unrighteously, but Jesus commends “right judgement” (John 7:24, ESV). We are to be discerning (Colossians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to preach the whole counsel of God, including the Bible's teaching on sin (Acts of the Apostles 20:27; 2 Timothy 4:2). We are to gently confront erring brothers or sisters in Christ (Galatians 6:1). We are to practice church discipline (Matthew 18:15–17). We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).’

I believe that all of the above-cited passages demonstrate that we are supposed to preach the truth, which includes confront sinners with their sin. For example, in Matthew 18:15, Jesus specifically says, ‘If your brother or sister sins, go point out their fault [...]’. Therefore, you cannot say that we cannot judge others.

So, to finalise, we must warn the sinners of wrongdoing, which means that Devin must tell that girl that what she is willing to do is wrong, according to the Bible; and we (again, in this case, Devin) must never encourage anyone to sin, by disobeying God — which is what, shamefully, you wanted him to do.
 
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Devin (Camary) Vaughn

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I am confused... What did she call a ‘one-way ticket to death’? The ‘ideology’ that no-one should be transsexual? According to her, why does that lead to death?

Get someone else to go with you and talk to her. If you were about to talk about the Bible, and she refused to listen, maybe she will listen if more people talk (‘that ever matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses’ [Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16]).
She called life a one way road, called faith in God ideology.
 
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Thrash Metalhead

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The fact that something makes us feel good is no good reason for a Christian to do something. Only if you are able to understand that what you plan to do is in accordance with God's will can you do it. You cannot do something that makes you happy if it requires disobeying the Lord — as is the case of a sex change.

‘If I can't love myself, then how am I going to love the life God gave me and live it to the fullest when I'm always feeling depressed?’ It is not very difficult to understand. Firstly, we can ask God to free us from depression. Secondly, ‘living my life to the fullest’ does not mean ‘doing whatever I want’ or ‘doing something solely because I want it’ or ‘disobeying God’ — in other words, if you think that, in order to ‘live your live to the fullest’ (which is not even a biblical concept), you have to disobey God, then you should not by any means ‘live your life to the fullest’. Thirdly, loving the life that God gave me includes precisely respecting its Creator, recognising that his commands are always the best for me and obeying him. To sum up, the idea of ‘living one's life to the fullest’ should never get in the way of our obedience to God; the Bible does not say, ‘Live thy life to the fullest’, but it says, ‘You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.’ (Leviticus 18:4-5)

‘If the girl wants to change her sex, then who are we to tell her otherwise?’ We are the children of God, who have been given the mission of spreading the Gospel and bringing as many as possible to repentance. We must tell the truth unto others, showing them that they are living in sin, disobeying God, and we must persuade them to repent and turn to God, who offers forgiveness, so that they may be saved. We are allowed and even commanded to point to other people's faults (I will talk more about this issue later on).

Of course I cannot impose my beliefs on her! But I have never wanted to do that! Far be it from me to force, oblige or blackmail someone into converting to Christianity! However, I can persuade them. In fact, I am commanded to do that (Matthew 28:18-20). I can tell them why they should become Christians, share with them my testimony of the peace I have found in Christ, tell them the importance of obeying God's laws, encourage them to do so and reprehend them when they do not do so. That is what I am doing. I want Devin to show to that girl that what she intends to do is wrong, and I want him to dissuade her from doing it — this is biblical.

‘Let her live her own life and eventually she'll have to face her Creator and he'll be the one to do the judging, not us.’ — ‘Right! Let her go to Hell! Who cares? Why should even we move a finger to prevent that from happening?’ — I utterly disagree with such a mind set. I prefer to abide by what Charles Spurgeon once wrote: ‘If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for.’

‘We should be loving one another, not judging them. Isn't that what Jesus taught?’ That is a very good question. Yes, Jesus said, ‘Do not judge, or you too will be judged’ (Matthew 7:1). However, this probably one of the most misquoted sentences of Jesus. You cannot just simply use this standard to silence your opponents. Look closely at the verse: you will notice that it refers especially to cases where your judging someone else would mean that, by the same standard, that person would be able to judge you as well. In other words, we are not perfect, so we should not demand perfection from others. And we must not judge others for failing in areas where we are (or could be) also prone to fail. We must not be hypocritical. We must not say that someone is not a Christian because of a certain sin, because they could say the same about us.

Nevertheless, this verse does not mean we should never judge anything or anyone. As someone put it, ‘it does not mean we should not judge actions’. We are commanded to judge others when have done or will do something wrong — not as demanding perfection from them (that would be hypocritical), not as saying they will lose salvation (that would be untrue), but as warning them of sin and begging them to repent and turn from their ways.

For an in-depth analysis of this verse, I highly recommend that you read the article http://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-judge.html, of which I shall now quote the last two paragraphs:

‘Christians are often accused of “judging” or intolerance when they speak out against sin. But opposing sin is not wrong. Holding aloft the standard of righteousness naturally defines unrighteousness and draws the slings and arrows of those who choose sin over godliness. John the Baptist incurred the ire of Herodias when he spoke out against her adultery with Herod (Mark 6:18–19). She eventually silenced John, but she could not silence the truth (Isaiah 40:8).

‘Believers are warned against judging others unfairly or unrighteously, but Jesus commends “right judgement” (John 7:24, ESV). We are to be discerning (Colossians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:21). We are to preach the whole counsel of God, including the Bible's teaching on sin (Acts of the Apostles 20:27; 2 Timothy 4:2). We are to gently confront erring brothers or sisters in Christ (Galatians 6:1). We are to practice church discipline (Matthew 18:15–17). We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).’

I believe that all of the above-cited passages demonstrate that we are supposed to preach the truth, which includes confront sinners with their sin. For example, in Matthew 18:15, Jesus specifically says, ‘If your brother or sister sins, go point out their fault [...]’. Therefore, you cannot say that we cannot judge others.

So, to finalise, we must warn the sinners of wrongdoing, which means that Devin must tell that girl that what she is willing to do is wrong, according to the Bible; and we (again, in this case, Devin) must never encourage anyone to sin, by disobeying God — which is what, shamefully, you wanted him to do.
Look, let's just agree to disagree because we're going nowhere here. We both have our own thoughts and we can't try to get the other one to believe in what we believe.

Wish you the best of luck.

-Cheers, Thrash
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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Look, let's just agree to disagree because we're going nowhere here. We both have our own thoughts and we can't try to get the other one to believe in what we believe.

Wish you the best of luck.

-Cheers, Thrash

OK. I suppose you're right: maybe we should put an end to the discussion right now. Besides, I think I have nothing else to say, so... I rest my case.

By the way, I apologise if my long posts have bothered you. The thing is that, when I start defending my case, I cannot stop writing! Actually whenever I start writing about something I like, I can hardly stop! Then I look at my clock and think, ‘Oh gosh! I have wasted one hour writing this post!’ :)

May we never cease to investigate and look for the truth, and may the Lord our God give us wisdom to find it.

May the Lord bless you richly, Thrash! :)
The Portuguese Baptist
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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She called life a one way road, called faith in God ideology.

Ah! That makes a bit more sense.

Indeed, Jesus said that there were two paths with two distinct outcomes. Tell her this. Preach the Gospel unto her and never cease to pray for her. Get back to us once you have more news.
 
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Devin (Camary) Vaughn

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Ah! That makes a bit more sense.

Indeed, Jesus said that there were two paths with two distinct outcomes. Tell her this. Preach the Gospel unto her and never cease to pray for her. Get back to us once you have more news.
um... she is an internet friend... and she blocked me I think
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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um... she is an internet friend... and she blocked me I think

Hmm... Then that makes the idea of getting more people to talk to her a bit difficult. (Actually, it makes the whole idea of your talking to her a bit difficult!) Then, you might as well just pray. You have done everything you could have done, and she has rejected your advice. Just keep praying.
 
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