We were saved by God’s gift of grace thru faith not by works

Crowns&Laurels said:

Faith Alone is a sound doctrine, but don't let 'without works' get to your head either. A mere claim of faith, alone, is a dead faith.

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Hi brother Crowns,

I used to believe that "faith alone is a sound doctrine" [end of your quote]. I've gotten away from it. Here is why:

Real faith is not alone. It will create action. Real faith in Christ will result in repentance and works. Hebrews 11 has the hall of faith. Verb after verb describe their actions because of an underlying faith.

The only verse in the Bible (in some translations) that has the phrase "faith alone" is found in James 2:17 where "faith alone" is dead.

Ephesians 2:8-9 doesn't say that saving faith will be alone of works. It is clear, however, that works don't save.

In Christ!

EmSw said:

All this is good, but you left off the following part of James -

James 1:25
But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

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Fair enough, but are you suggesting this is the Law of Moses? I doubt very much that it is.

expos4ever said:

Fair enough, but are you suggesting this is the Law of Moses? I doubt very much that it is.

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No, this is not the law of Moses. This is the law of charity, that is, love your neighbor as yourself.

EmSw said:

Who is Ozpen?

First, each and every person will be judged according to his deeds...period. It is according to his deeds that he will be given either, eternal life or wrath.

What did James say about the Law?

James 1
21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

James equates the word with the perfect law of liberty. James says to lay aside all filthiness and wickedness. Paul says those who do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness will receive wrath and indignation. If a man only hears the word or law is deceiving himself. If a man tells me not to obey the word, I have to assume he is trying to deceive me also.

We have another witness who tells us how to inherit eternal life.

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

According to Jesus, how does a man inherit eternal life? What is written in the law? How do you read it? If you say love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself, you have answered right, DO THIS and will live.

I'm interested to see how many will dispute Jesus' own words.

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Hello EmSw.

You said the following.

I'm interested to see how many will dispute Jesus' own words.

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I have my hand raised EmSw, I'll take that challenge.

Then you also said.

According to Jesus, how does a man inherit eternal life? What is written
in the law? How do you read it? If you say love the Lord your God with all your
heart, soul, strength, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself, you have
answered right, DO THIS and will live.

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No one can be saved by loving God and loving others!

The trick is to understand that Jesus, was in fact talking about
the future event here. His death and resurrection is what the law
and the temple is pointing to. No one can love anyone but themselves,
how could anyone love God without the Holy Spirit?

One must at the bare minimum believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

One cannot love anyone unless one receives the Holy Spirit.

Love is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love.

The Jews were under this law your referring to above, the Gentiles were never
under this law. Jesus was not speaking to the Gentiles in this text (Luke 10:26-28).

klutedavid said:

Hello EmSw.

You said the following.

I have my hand raised EmSw, I'll take that challenge.

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Hello David. I didn't mean this as a challenge. I don't think anyone should challenge the words of Jesus.

klutedavid said:

No one can be saved by loving God and loving others!

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I will have to go with the truth Jesus gave us. How will one inherit eternal life, if he doesn't believe this? If one doesn't believe this, where is his faith in Jesus? I would say he doesn't have faith in Jesus.

Maybe I am different than some, but I choose to believe the words Jesus gave us.

klutedavid said:

The trick is to understand that Jesus, was in fact talking about the future event here. His death and resurrection is what the law and the temple is pointing to. No one can love anyone but themselves, how could anyone love God without the Holy Spirit?

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If you want to believe that trick, you are certainly given the freedom to do so. Jesus said nothing about His death and resurrection in these verses. He was talking about the present.

Millions and millions of unsaved parents have loved their children, and vice versa. Surely you haven't gone through life hating everyone. Man is created in the image and likeness of God; God is love. Why can't man love others if he is created in the image and likeness of God?

If all a man does is hate others, I would say he is created in the image and likeness of the devil.

klutedavid said:

One must at the bare minimum believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

How can one have working faith without love? What will a non-working faith achieve? It will avail nothing.

klutedavid said:

One cannot love anyone unless one receives the Holy Spirit.

Love is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

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Surely you are not going to tell me you hated your parents before you were saved; I hope not. How is it a child cannot love his parents? Children are commanded to love their parents. How is it parents cannot love their children?

klutedavid said:

Galatians 5:22

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klutedavid said:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love.

The Jews were under this law your referring to above, the Gentiles were never
under this law. Jesus was not speaking to the Gentiles in this text (Luke 10:26-28).

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To whom was Paul speaking in Romans 9?

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

These are the commandment you say Jesus was speaking to the Jews.

ZacharyB said:

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

When we first come to Christ …
we receive the gift of salvation by God’s grace through our faith,
and not by any good works that we have done.
(Believers debate whether God must provide the necessary faith.)

Obviously, our past good works have nothing to do with our salvation!

But, what about the future lives of believers?
Do our future good works (or lack thereof) have any effect on our salvation?

When we first came to Christ, we received His righteousness.
But, our righteousness must be maintained through our good works.

“I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it (good deeds) to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(Jesus, Matthew 25:45-46)

John follows Jesus:
“… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.”
(1 John 2:29)
“… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous”
(1 John 3:7)

Peter follows Jesus:
“… whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)
“… we, having died to sins, might live for (the practicing of) righteousness”
(1 Peter 2:24)

Paul follows Jesus:
“… (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)
“... present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:19)
“But you, O man of God, flee these things (sins) and pursue righteousness”
(1 Timothy 6:11)
“Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:8-10)

James follows Jesus:
“… faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” (James 2:17)

Do you follow Jesus?

A word about being an “overcomer”
Maintaining our righteous standing before God is part of being an “overcomer”.
The overcomer is compared to whoever chooses to be a habitual unrepentant sinner:
“He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be
My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns
with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)
Jesus says: to overcome does not mean to just believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

“All Scripture… is profitable for … instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16)

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a few verses are just a little part of the full explanation, it is not written "not of good works", but the meaning is 'not of occult works', because the human was created as righteous abiding in the grace of Lord God, but it fell from that grace because started and continued to exercise/practice occultism, esotericism and idolatry, which is shown in the Bible as an (process of) "eating" of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", so the human became a being pretending to be a god ostensibly able to operate in the world/universe as God Himself, but the result of its occult activity was really imperfect and insufficient for perfect solution, because the human capacity is negligible compared to the God's, for there can be no more than one (true) system Administrator(God) of all the boundless universe, neither is there a need of another such, while the human is the user, which is actually the real meaning of the biblical word "human", but the human dared to butt in the God's works, which is possible only from the other side i.e. in the form of occultism, and thus did the sin actually enter into the world, and the death((the spirit of) deterioration) by the sin, which affected many humans, and the "sin" is exactly the spiritual lawlessness/iniquity in its essence, initially in the form of occultism...

Blessings

ZacharyB said:

Yes, thanks for sharing.
First, I'd like to comment on your "being saved" ...
Perhaps, we should consider it as meaning people were being saved each day,
with nothing to do with an on-going process of anyone's salvation.
And, I would like to emphasize that perhaps the MOST important qualification
of making it through to one's final salvation unto eternal life is the fact that:
One MUST endure in his/her faith until death to receive eternal life.
Perhaps as many as 10 verses teach this!
IMO, this as the ultimate test as to who really "believes" Jesus and His gospel.
And please, do not be mistaken: we all have our belief/faith/trust tested.

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Hi,
Just adding something I thought of.
In John 8, Jesus talks about those who 'hear Him' are of God.
To hear Him speak, is not just with the physical ears, but it is also spiritual because they have a relationship. Hearing means to also hearken which implies obedience to the message being spoken. Not everyone who cries Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21-23New King James Version (NKJV)
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Christ never knew these people, they had no relationship, HE was not their LORD and they were not HIS people. Yet they claimed to have done great works for God!

John 8
45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Of interest to note, is that it is the will of God that you believe in His Son, so then we believe because it is God's will for us to be saved who are the saved.
John 6
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Can you believe in Him?