LDS did not allow blacks to hold the priesthood until 1978.

GracetotheHumble said:

So what's your point? That it's ok to exclude the African Americans because of the color of their skin?

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My point? Jesus thought it was ok to exclude gentiles and Samaritans.

GracetotheHumble said:

Maybe you should read the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the women at the well.

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Numbers 23:19

God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

GracetotheHumble said:

What's your point?

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Elijah Abel serve in the Third Quorum of the Seventy in 1836.

GracetotheHumble said:

And Brigham Young said blacks have the mark of Cain and refused to ordain them to the priesthood.

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Brigham Young ... Prophet, Seer & Revelator?

GracetotheHumble said:

And Brigham Young said blacks have the mark of Cain and refused to ordain them to the priesthood.

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He was wrong

GracetotheHumble said:

If the so called prophet is wrong about such a major issue what else is he wrong about?

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Good thing we have the Holy Ghost to tell us.

fatboys said:

Good thing we have the Holy Ghost to tell us.

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And what if He tells me something different. Why is your subjective feeling better ???

you know sometimes I wounder if thier isn't more to Christianity then meets the eye. good thing there are threads like these to assure me their isn't.

jacknife said:

you know sometimes I wounder if thier isn't more to Christianity then meets the eye. good thing there are threads like these to assure me their isn't.

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Jack we may never know why Brigham Young decided to keep the priesthood from those of negro blood. He had a lot on his plate at the time and it is easy to make back seat judgements I do know that at the end of the day the blacks were never denied all that God has got all his children no matter what color. All we know is now and many do not get the big picture. If the blacks remained true and faithful all would be bestowed on them and they could reach the highest of the celestial kingdom.

GracetotheHumble said:

Your link is biased. It's put out by the LDS who consistently spread false information. I prefer the link I posted as it's more nuetral.

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Do you have links that are not put out by either Mormons or Evangelicals? Because both would be equally biased.

drstevej said:

Because the Mormon deity in 2 Nephi 5:21 relates black skin to a curse and proclaims white as delightsome.

For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.​

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This passage, & others like them, in the Book of Mormon, ought to be considered in their historical settings, as to how the ancient Jews, early to later Christians, on down to our modern use of color symbolism; are still in use today. But of which uses, if literalized, would get a double look from those who know better. (See examples below). In other words, though they were interpreted in a literal way by earlier LDS leaders & people, & early to later anti-Mormons. Despite this, new insights have come forth to offer another ancient way of interpreting such passages. In other words, black skins could be in reference to not actual human skins, but ritualistic animals skins, which the ancient ritualistic garments were sometimes made out of, (like in Biblical settings & early Christianity). To have your "skins" spotted (spots, blood, or dirt representing sins), to the point where they were blackened, is not only a Book of Mormon theme, but it's also an ancient Jewish, early to later Christian theme & types also. To have your "skins" washed clean of sins, or whitened to purity, so that you're "spotless" before God's all seeing eye, in Judgment settings, is also a Book of Mormon concept, also found in early to later Christianity too. There are art works showing Christians washing their clothing in the blood of Christ, as it flows down from the cross. Symbolic of them whitening their skins, or ritualistic clothing, so that they are cleansed of sins. Thus, one reason why the Book of Mormon was changed in some sections for clarification of what white meant, in the 1830s, that it is also symbolic of purity, & not literal actual human skin colors, (black or white).

Early to later Christians were faced with the same types of issues too, as ritualistic garment color symbolism eventually faded off into actual racial skin colors being thought of as being bad, or good. Christianity, as well as in other cultures, have used color symbolism for different non-literal typologies. To have your clothing stained with blood, or your hands dirty, spots on your clothing, "filty rags," etc., were types of a person doing bad things. We still use these ancient types today, examples:

Dirty cop! (is the cop literally covered in dirt? Of course not!).
He has a black heart (the person's heart, is not actually black).
White washing (the criminal elements to an event doesn't mean someone has taken a wash cloth to clean up the situation with soap & water).
Dirty Thoughts!
Black ops
Laundered money (money put in a washing machine? Not).
The Dark Ages (The sun must have not shined? Nope).
The Age of Enlightenment (The sun must have finally come out? Nope).
Works of Darkness (things done in the dark only?)
Brought into the light (the lights are turned on on what people do in the dark?)
Guttermouth (dirty speech, or a person with a gutter for a mouth? Dirty water often flows in gutters)
Black magic (done only by black people? Nope)
White magic (done only by white people? Nope).
Black Sabbath or Whitesunday (Whitesunday is the Christian tradition of wearing white clothing, the reversal of this is Black Sabbath, the wearing of black).

Many early to later Christians understood these ancient garment color symbolism were being counterfeited by devil worshippers, who reversed Christian morals, symbols, colors, sayings, & prayers backwards, in mockery of Christ & God. The whole point of modern satanic music is to demonify your soul to follow the "dark path," the left hand path towards demonification, the reversal of Christian moral perfection & deification, theosis, (which is what the white robes of Christians' baptism represent, in contrast to the reversal of them, black robes, black clothing, black candles, etc., in satanism). So instead of becoming more Christ like, the musics' lyrics encourages listeners to develop every demonic trait, demonification, to become like the devil & his fallen angels.

The early Christians often ritualistically would put on protective white garments, while devil worshippers, black clothing, as they often do to this day. In historic Christendom, Whitesunday, Whitsuntide kept the tradition alive of being clothed in White after baptism, symbolic of purity, being washed & cleansed of sins, and being resurrected. Easter time is often a time where white bonets, white clothing or new clothing is given to Christians. In earlier Christian baptismal rituals, the filty rags, old clothing was taken off, as a type of leaving the old ways of sins. The early to later Christians would then be naked, as they had entered into life, naked. Being "born again," (baptized), into a new life in Christ, they were anointed, descended into the baptismal font, were baptized, (by different modes, immersion, sprinkeling, pouring, depending on what areas & times the Christians were in), in the name of the trinity, or Father, Son & Holy Ghost, sometimes immersed 3 times. This washing away of sins, (like Pilot try to do in washing his hands of the blood of Christ), was also a type of being in the underworld, the pit, hell, hades, limbo, purgatory, where the fires act as a refining fire to purge out all sins. They'd ascend up out of the font, as Christ ascended up out of the underworld of death, & are resurrected-- ritualistically. In some cases a ritualistic hand or wrist clasp, helps them rise from the grave, (or baptismal font), were they become the grateful dead, rising up, sing praises to Christ who rescued them. Just like those who are rescued by Christ during the harrowing of hell, coming forth to greet Christ with different types of hand & wrist grips. (Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord, he that hath clean hands, & a pure heart, which could also have been worded "white heart," Psalms 24). These are seen in thousands of art works depicting Christ's descent, the anastasis (resurrection). The resurrected are clothed in garments, or baptismal robes, often white, symbolic of purity & that they have left the old person of sin too. (Isa. 1:16-18). Being thus spotless (spots representing sins, to the point where they blacken the skins, but having been washed they are whitened or now spotless, like the unblemished lamb OT types). Anciently these garments were made out of animal skins, like lamb skins, the Old Testament typologies being carried over into Christendom). Being thus found spotless, they are whitened before God's judgment. Thus, art works often depict angels clothing souls in white, on Christ's right hand. While on the left hand, naked souls are being thrust down to hell by different color demons, often black skinned demons, symbolic of their fall from the light! As time went by, black skins eventually became associated with evil, with bad things, & not only were Christians of the slave era guilty of literalizing such things with regards to blacks, so as to try to justify slavery, but also earlier Mormons, who came out of Christian sects to become Mormons, were also caught up in these later traditions that literalized the earlier color symbolism. Thus, Christians could be just as much to blame for what Mormons inherited from the different Christian sects they came out of. This might be also why earlier Mormons interpreted the book of Mormon as being literal, in the different passages about skins, which ought to be non-literal. In historic Christianity, black skins were said to be the visible reminder of ones' pre-mortal sins, which is why in 553 AD, at the Council of Constantinople, Emperor Justinian, said they'd anathma those who continued the belief that black skins reflected pre-mortal sins. By that time there were thousands of art works depicting the fallen angel, the sinful rebel angels, as black skinned monstrous looking creatures, who lost their bright natures when they fell from heaven. In some areas of Christendom, the devil was believed to be a black man. This is even depicted in the movie, Cross Road, 1986. Where the devil to whom a pact is made, is a black man, at the cross road, the two ways, the broad road, or the narrow path, the right hand path, righteousness, in contrast to the left hand side, (of Christ's judgment). In occult lore, & perhaps in modern times too, pacts with the devil are said to be written backwards with the left hand. In contrast, those that journey the right hand path are glorified, perfected, cleansed of sins, & deified, whitened. While those on the left hand path, if they don't repent, are thrust down to hell, & start to reflect demonic traits the farther down they go down the dark paths, being thus darkened, shaded down the scales to blackness, like in The Divine Comedy, Dante, 13th cent.).

So while Christians might be tempted to bash Mormons for their racial heritage, while they're trying to move on from their past mistakes, misinterpretations of scriptures, & prejudices that they ought to be forgiven for. (Or is constant bringing up of these old issues done to justify prejudices against Mormons?) Know this, that Christians have their own history of racialisms that could be used to vilify and "expose" Christianity too. Which is what I've seen communist atheists do to vilify the USA & Americans. (See: Marc Aronson, Race, A History Beyond Black and White, (New York, London, Toronto, Sydney: Ginee seo books, Atheneum Books for Young Readers, 2007), shows that Christianity also had its own versions of color symbolism turned later into racialism, curse of Cain, etc.)

Sources:

Darell Thorpe, THE ARMOR OF GODS (PROTECTIVE SKINS OR GARMENTS IN HISTORY & COLOR SYMBOLISM).

Scroll down to article: Passover, Easter & Garment Types of Deification in the Resurrection (Easter Sunday, 4-8-2012).

Black & White Garment Color Symbolism in Religions.

The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 12:10-11, 16, 23; 13:15; 15:33-34; 2 Nephi 1:23; 4:32-35; 5:20-26; 9:6-19, 42-47; 33:7; Jacob 1:18-19; 2:2; 3:3-12; 6:5-11; Enos 14-20, 27; Mosiah 2:27-28; 3:19-27; 4:2; 5:5-15; 7:31; 16:3-15; 25:10-11; 27:23-31; Alma 1:12-13; 24; 3:2-18, 26-27; 5:6-62; 6:3; 7:3-25; 9:10-32; 10:17-27; 11:36-45; 12;9, 12-18; 22-37; 14:6-11; 24:7-16; 26:12-24; 34:29-39; 40:2-26; 45:10-17; etc.

Biblical color symbolism using white & black, light & darkness: Joel 2:6; Matthew 6:23; 23:27; Romans 1:21; Psalms 51:7-10, Isa. 1:16-18, etc. Shepherd of Hermas, (in early New Testament canons), used ancient garment color symbolisms too.

White reversed to black, according to the occult & the reversal of the things of Christ & God. Backward Masking Unmasked, & More Rock, & Country and Backward Masking Unmasked, Jacob Aranza. Richard Cavendish, Man, Myth & Magic, vol.1, p.277, vol. 9, p. 2479, vol 7, p. 1866-70. Rosemary Ellen Guiley, The Encyclopedia Of Witches & Witchcraft, (Facts On File, 1989) p. 101, under the heading: "Devil's pact." Jeffery Burton Russell, The Prince of Darkness, pp.150-1. Daniel Lawrence O' Keefe, Stolen Lightning, (Continum Publishing Company, 1982), p.44-124.

Fifty spiritual homilies of St. Macarius the Egyptian, 4th century Christian, uses a lot of color symbolism.

Oxford English Dictionary, 1933, Clarendon Press, see White, Pure, p. 70 & 1614.

Early Christian, Barnabas, 118 AD, using color symbolism, he says the devil is "the Black One." Jeffret B. Russell, The Prince of Darkness, p.54; The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, p.133, 139, 148.

Henry Ansgar Kelly, The Devil at baptism: Ritual, Theology, and Drama, (Ithaca and London: Cornell University Press, 1985). A must read!

Jeffrey Burton Russell, Satan, The Early Christian Tradition, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1981). Lucifer, The Devil In the Middle Age, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1984). The Prince of Darkness, Radical Evil and the Power of Good in History, (Ithaca, New York: Cornell University Press, 1988).

John P. Lundy, Monumental Christianity, Or the Art and Symbolism of the Primitive Church, (New York: J. W. Bouton, 1875 & 1882).

John Rupert Martin, The Illustration Of The Heavenly Ladder of John Climacus, (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1954). Often times, black monsterous looking demons are shooting arrows at those ascending the ladder to godhood, or Christian moral perfection, where Christ clasps the hand or wrist of those at the top. Thus, the protective garments, blankets or robes often seen wrapped around ascending souls is also common in early to later Christian art. (Scroll down to art works).

Martha Himmelfarb, Tours Of Hell, An Apocalyptic Form in Jewish and Christian Literature, (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1983).
Rutherford H. Platt, Jr., and J. Alden Brett, (Editors), The Forgotten Books of Eden, (U.S.A.: Alpha House, Inc., 1927). Lot of color symbolism, light & darkness as typologies for good or bad.

Thomas Armitage, D.D., LL.D., A History Of The Baptists, (New York: Bryah, Taylor, & Chicago: Morningside, 1887). Mentions the white baptismal robes.

John Milton, Paradise Lost, 17th cent., Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy, 13th cent., also both used color symbolism, & light & darkness as types of good vrs evil.

Hallenfahrt Christis, in Richard Paul Wulker, Bibliothek der Angelsachsischen Poesie, (Leipzig: Wigands, 1897), 3 vols.

Himmel Hölle Fegefeuer, Das Jenseits im Mittelalter, 1994, Schweizerisches Landesmuseum, Zurich, Wilhelm Fink Verlag, Munchen.

James Reston, Jr., Dogs of God, Columbus, the Inquisition, and the Defeat of the Moors, (New York, New York, Doubleday, 2005).



Fredk, WM. Hackwood, F.R.S.L., Christ Lore (Being the Legends, Traditions, Myths, Symbols, & Superstitions of The Christian Church), (London: 1902, republished, Detroit: Gale Research Company, Book Tower, 1969).

Erwin R. Goodenough, Jewish Symbols in the Greco-Roman Period, 13 volumes. (New York: Pantheon Books, 1953).

Craig Harbison, The Last Judgment in Sixteenth Century Northern Europe, (New York, U.S.A., and London, England: Garland Pub. Inc., 1976).

Alice K. Turner, 1993, The History of Hell, (New York, San Diego, U.S.A.; London, England: Harcourt Brace & Company).

Anna D. Kartsonis, Anastasis, The Making of An Image, (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1986).

Colleen McDannell and Bernhard Lang, Heaven: A History, (New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 1988).



Ji Li Jiang, Red Scarf Girl, A Memoir of the Culture Revolution
Mao's Red Book revolution that hit Communist China, 1966-7. (She talked of color symbolism used during this time, black was a color symbolic of bad things).

Carl A. Raschke, Painted Black, From Drug Killings to Heavy Metal—The Alarming True Story of How Satanism is Terrorizing our Communities, (New York, New York: Harper Paperbacks, 1990).

Keith Thomas, Religion & the Decline of Magic, (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1971).

Maury Terry, The Ultimate Evil, (Garden City, New York: Dolphin Book, Doubleday and Company, 1987).

Peter Levenda, Unholy Alliance, A History of Nazi Involvement with the Occult, (New York, New York: Avon Books, 1995).

Richard Laurence, LL.D., (Trans.) The Book of Enoch The Prophet, (Re-issued: Williams & Norgate, 1892).

Abram Kanof, Jewish Ceremonial Art And Religious Observance, (New York: Harry N. Abrams).

GracetotheHumble said:

Isn't eternal marriage required to reach the highest degree? Elijah Abel was denied a Temple marriage.

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If it doesn't happen in this life, it can happen on the other side.

You should know this.

GracetotheHumble said:

Isn't eternal marriage required to reach the highest degree? Elijah Abel was denied a Temple marriage.

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I believe Elijah Abel was considered one of the Quorum of Seventy. It is also my understanding that he played a large part in building the Salt Lake City Temple. Both his son and grandson were ordained priests.