The king James bible

Colabomb

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Hi,

I'm a bit of an amateur bible history fan. History of translation, interpretation, canon issues etc.

Obviously, at the time the translation was published there was a lot of political and theological rancor that would of course prevent Rome from looking favorably on protestant translation efforts. But since that time (in large part due to Vatican 2), protestants and Catholics have worked together on both protestant (rsv, nrsv,) and Catholic (nab) translations. With little (and in my personal opinion superficial) modification Catholic bishops have even granted imprimatur to the rsv (and more controversially) the nrsv.

So my question is, were there not of course better and less archaic translations available, is there anything in the text of the translation itself (ignoring the original protestant commentary, and separation of the deuterocanon from the protocanon), that would prevent it from acceptance by the English speaking Catholic church in less polemic and contentious times?

If so what would need to be altered?

Obviously this is unlikely to ever happen, more if just a fun "what if?"
 

stray bullet

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Hi,

I'm a bit of an amateur bible history fan. History of translation, interpretation, canon issues etc.

Obviously, at the time the translation was published there was a lot of political and theological rancor that would of course prevent Rome from looking favorably on protestant translation efforts. But since that time (in large part due to Vatican 2), protestants and Catholics have worked together on both protestant (rsv, nrsv,) and Catholic (nab) translations. With little (and in my personal opinion superficial) modification Catholic bishops have even granted imprimatur to the rsv (and more controversially) the nrsv.

Remember that those are just English translations.

So my question is, were there not of course better and less archaic translations available, is there anything in the text of the translation itself (ignoring the original protestant commentary, and separation of the deuterocanon from the protocanon), that would prevent it from acceptance by the English speaking Catholic church in less polemic and contentious times?

The bible comes from the Catholic Church, whereas with denominations, they say their beliefs come from the bible. The question is not important to Catholics. Protestants obsess about translations because their faith must come from that bible and it must be worded just so.

We just don't care.
 
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Jared R

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Remember that those are just English translations.



The bible comes from the Catholic Church, whereas with denominations, they say their beliefs come from the bible. The question is not important to Catholics. Protestants obsess about translations because their faith must come from that bible and it must be worded just so.

We just don't care.

I actually do think the issue is important for Catholics too. There was a time when Catholics didn't read Protestant translations, and if they found one they were supposed to give it to their parish priest. I think we have to be selective about which translations we read, because they aren't made in vacuums, and the theology of the translators definitely affects the translation they produce.

Even though the RSV-CE and others are approved, I don't feel comfortable reading them because of their background. I currently only use the Douay-Rheims, though I would really be pleased to see a new Vulgate-based translation.

To answer the OP's question, I am not familiar with the KJV at all really, so I can't point out any errors in the text.
 
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Jared R

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Can you explain that please? Ta

The OP alluded to it already, but the RSV-CE is a Protestant translation with a few alterations like "Hail, full of grace" in Luke and the addition of the deuterocanon. Same with the NRSV. And the NAB is a whole other thread.
 
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Colabomb

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Remember that those are just English translations.



The bible comes from the Catholic Church, whereas with denominations, they say their beliefs come from the bible. The question is not important to Catholics. Protestants obsess about translations because their faith must come from that bible and it must be worded just so.

We just don't care.


I have no intention of debating any doctrine or differences between our traditions. I do however question if your parish priest would share your disinterest in the importance of the scriptures in the language of the people. The bishops seem to have an interest in the topic considering the controversy over the nab/nrsv and the lectionary. Proper translation is important to many Catholics, many of them being members of the clergy.

I would also remind you that even under your own church's theology the scriptures come from the Holy Spirit through the Church, they are a gift to the Church preserved though the Church and interpreted by the Church, but their source is God and they are held in reverence as such in both our traditions.
 
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Colabomb

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though I would really be pleased to see a new Vulgate-based translation.

Actually I'd like to see this too. Not for any theological reason but for general interest. Comparing masoretic based translations to Septuagint based translations is interesting. Though I'm working on koine, I doubt I'll ever learn Latin, and the Vulgate is sadly under represented in English.
 
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Leevo

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To answer the OP, I think the problems we would have accepting the KJV, is that it has so many mistranslated verses that modern versions have corrected quite well...


The OP alluded to it already, but the RSV-CE is a Protestant translation with a few alterations like "Hail, full of grace" in Luke and the addition of the deuterocanon. Same with the NRSV. And the NAB is a whole other thread.

I am curious, perhaps you could PM me, as to what exactly are the problems with these versions? My parish sells the NAB in the shop that opens up after mass every weekend, so I am very curious as to your claims. I personally have a Didache Bible that I use, which is RSVCE2 and I seen that you mentioned it, so I was wondering if you could just go into detail about all of these and why you dislike them...
 
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Goatee

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The OP alluded to it already, but the RSV-CE is a Protestant translation with a few alterations like "Hail, full of grace" in Luke and the addition of the deuterocanon. Same with the NRSV. And the NAB is a whole other thread.

I have the Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition! Is it bad?

Which is the best / purest edition? Ta
 
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Colabomb

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I have the Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition! Is it bad?

Which is the best / purest edition? Ta
With the understanding I'm an Anglican protestant and an highly biased towards the tyndale-authorised-rsv tradition, I've noticed the rsv-ce is usually the favoured translation of conservative Catholics who aren't of the "vulgate or bust" variety. If it comforts you at all it (the Catholic edition, though the protestant/ecumenical edition is barely different) has received imprimatur.

There is some controversy regarding the rendering of certain messianic foreshadowings (isaiah 7.14 in particular), but the translators do have to choose between a literal rendering and an interpretative rendering, and as long as you read the scriptures in light of the history of Christian interpretive history (no, not all of us threw out the baby with the bath water) I don't see this as a major problem.

I'm sad that it's fallen out of favor with protestants. It has is faults but it is a scholarly translation that reads well without forcing a particular sectarian theology on the text as with the niv (or even worse the likes if the nlt).
 
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LivingWordUnity

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I have the Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition! Is it bad?

Which is the best / purest edition? Ta
The Douay-Rheims & Clementina Vulgata is the most reliably traditional and orthodox of Catholic Bibles. It contains an English translation of the Latin Vulgate side-by-side with the Latin text. The Latin Vulgate was translated by St. Jerome and is the only translation of the Bible that has been endorsed by Catholic dogmatic councils as the gold standard of bible translations. The modernists would disagree since they hate tradition and orthodoxy.

Douay-Rheims and Clementina Vulgata

full
 
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Goatee

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The Douay-Rheims & Clementina Vulgata is the most reliably traditional and orthodox of Catholic Bibles. It contains an English translation of the Latin Vulgate side-by-side with the Latin text. The Latin Vulgate was translated by St. Jerome and is the only translation of the Bible that has been endorsed by Catholic dogmatic councils as the gold standard of bible translations. The modernists would disagree since they hate tradition and orthodoxy.

Douay-Rheims and Clementina Vulgata

full

This one?:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Catholic-Bi...1445281837&sr=1-2&keywords=bible+douay-rheims
 
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Colabomb

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Maybe I'm oversimplifying or misunderstanding here but didn't an ecumenical council of the church recommend and commend new translations be made from the original languages? I understand the special place the vulgate has in the Roman church, but hasn't the Church borne witness to the inspired nature of the greek and Hebrew traditions as well?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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The one I have is a deluxe version of the Douay-Rheims. Here's the description of it on EWTN's religious catalog:
DOUAY-RHEIMS & CLEMENTINA VULGATA
Douay-Rheims and Clementina Vulgata texts are bound side-by-side in this handsome edition. The Clementine Vulgate was proclaimed the official Latin Bible of the Church after the Reformation. The Douay-Rheims version is a translation of the Latin text. Having both Bibles side by side allows us to see exactly where the vernacular translation came from. It is bound in black leather with gilded pages and two ribbon place markers. Measures 8 1/2" x 11 1/2". Hardcover. 1,488 pages.

Source:
https://www.ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/Home+Page/BOOKS/Bibles/DOUAY-RHEIMS+CLEMENTINA+VULGATA.axd
 
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seayhere

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I actually have a Lutheran Bible from the 1700's and it even has the extra books that are in the Catholic bible. It's called the Apocrytha. It's in german though and I can't read it. I would love to read it and compare it to our bible today.
 
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Colabomb

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I actually have a Lutheran Bible from the 1700's and it even has the extra books that are in the Catholic bible. It's called the Apocrytha. It's in german though and I can't read it. I would love to read it and compare it to our bible today.
Almost all protestant bibles contained the apocrypha until the early 1800s.

Historic Protestantism, while following Jerome and denying their status as scripture, recognized that these books were preserved by the Church for good reason and contain good teaching. My church includes readings from them in the lectionary to this day.

Disdain for the deuterocanon was a later development.
 
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