Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment

Open Heart

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Never said there was something wrong with celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Good, because that's what Easter is, a celebration of the resurrection of Christ, in ENGLISH. You wouldn't even be having this argument if we spoke another European language because all the words for Easter are variations of the Latin word PASCHA, which refers to Passover. For example, PASCAL in French, PASCUA in Spanish, PASKHA in Russian, etc.

Try writing stuff in your own words instead of copying and pasting other people's writings. Quotes should only be used to document facts in question.
 
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Good, because that's what Easter is, a celebration of the resurrection of Christ, in ENGLISH. You wouldn't even be having this argument if we spoke another European language because all the words for Easter are variations of the Latin word PASCHA, which refers to Passover. For example, PASCAL in French, PASCUA in Spanish, PASKHA in Russian, etc.

Try writing stuff in your own words instead of copying and pasting other people's writings. Quotes should only be used to document facts in question.
I understand the languages just fine, but perhaps you can answer some questions then concerning your 'easter', and the day its on, and also if you could tell me what the word for "resurrection", "firstfruits" and "wavesheaf" in Greek, French, Spanish, Russian is? and how long [1 day, or 7 days, or 8 days] did Jesus keep the "passover" and when?:

Jesus ate the 'last supper', with the Disciples on Thursday night, yes?

Jesus, the Lamb of God, died in the 6th day of the week in the afternoon, being "finished", as at Creation, which was the Passover day, the 14th of Abib/Nisan, yes?

Jesus remained in the Tomb on the Sabbath of the LORD, the 7th Day, having entered into His rest, as at Creation, the 15th of Abib/Nisan, and where the bread/manna was not to be found in the field, being also the first day [of 7 days, 15th-21st of Abib] of unleavened bread, yes?

Jesus being raised [resurrected] to life, the 'first [day] of the week', as the firstfruits and wavesheaf, being the second day [of 7 days] of unleavened bread, going back to work of Mediator of the Heavenly Sanctuary, the 16th of Abib/Nisan, yes?​

Why would anyone call Sunday {"the first [day] of the week"} the Pascha?

Sunday is 3 days too late...

According to Scripture, the "passover" was in one single night, at "even", when the LORD passed over:

Exodus 12:5 KJV - Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take [it] out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Exodus 12:6 KJV - And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Exodus 12:7 KJV - And they shall take of the blood, and strike [it] on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Exodus 12:8 KJV - And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it.

Exodus 12:9 KJV - Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast [with] fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

Exodus 12:10 KJV - And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

Exodus 12:11 KJV - And thus shall ye eat it; [with] your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it [is] the LORD'S passover.

Exodus 12:12 KJV - For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I [am] the LORD.

Exodus 12:13 KJV - And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye [are]: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy [you], when I smite the land of Egypt.

Exodus 12:14 KJV - And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
"Passover" = "this day" [singular], and according to Genesis a "day" is "evening and morning", but notice that the "Passover" was to be eaten at "even".

The days following the 14th [at even], from the 15th to the 21st [7 days] of the First Month Abib, called the days [plural] of unleavened bread, were after the LORD passed over in that single night and delivered them out of Egypt.

The Definition for Pascha, from Orthodox Wiki is as follows:

"... Pascha is a transliteration of the Greek word, which is itself a transliteration of the Hebrew pesach, both words meaning Passover. (A minority of English-speaking Orthodox prefer the English word 'Pasch.')"- http://orthodoxwiki.org/Pascha
Passover means:

"... the Passover was a family festival. It was celebrated at night, at the full moon of the vernal equinox, the 14th of the month of Abib or of the corn (called Nisan after the exile). ..." - Passover - OrthodoxWiki

Paul is clear that Jesus was the Passover at His death:

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 1 Corinthians 5:7​

And that in His resurrection, He is then the Firstfruits, which would fit perfectly with typology and prophecy.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1 Corinthians 15:20

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:23​

How is Christ the Passover/Pascha on the First Day of the week?

Please explain using Scripture.

Then explain how you come to a weekly event [Sundays] from a Yearly event [16th of Abib/Nisan], using Scripture.

Here are all of the times that "Passover" [in English] is used in Scripture:

Exodus 12:11 KJV - And thus shall ye eat it; [with] your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it [is] the LORD'S passover.

Exodus 12:21 KJV - Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.

Exodus 12:27 KJV - That ye shall say, It [is] the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

Exodus 12:43 KJV - And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This [is] the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:

Exodus 12:48 KJV - And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 34:25 KJV - Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

Leviticus 23:5 KJV - In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.

Numbers 9:2 KJV - Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season.

Numbers 9:4 KJV - And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover.

Numbers 9:5 KJV - And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.

Numbers 9:6 KJV - And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day:

Numbers 9:10 KJV - Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or [be] in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the LORD.

Numbers 9:12 KJV - They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.

Numbers 9:13 KJV - But the man that [is] clean, and is not in a journey, and forbeareth to keep the passover, even the same soul shall be cut off from among his people: because he brought not the offering of the LORD in his appointed season, that man shall bear his sin.

Numbers 9:14 KJV - And if a stranger shall sojourn among you, and will keep the passover unto the LORD; according to the ordinance of the passover, and according to the manner thereof, so shall he do: ye shall have one ordinance, both for the stranger, and for him that was born in the land.

Numbers 28:16 KJV - And in the fourteenth day of the first month [is] the passover of the LORD.

Numbers 33:3 KJV - And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.

Deuteronomy 16:1 KJV - Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.

Deuteronomy 16:2 KJV - Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.

Deuteronomy 16:5 KJV - Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee:

Deuteronomy 16:6 KJV - But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

Joshua 5:10 KJV - And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.

Joshua 5:11 KJV - And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched [corn] in the selfsame day.

2 Kings 23:21 KJV - And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep the passover unto the LORD your God, as [it is] written in the book of this covenant.

2 Kings 23:22 KJV - Surely there was not holden such a passover from the days of the judges that judged Israel, nor in all the days of the kings of Israel, nor of the kings of Judah;

2 Kings 23:23 KJV - But in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, [wherein] this passover was holden to the LORD in Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 30:1 KJV - And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel.

2 Chronicles 30:2 KJV - For the king had taken counsel, and his princes, and all the congregation in Jerusalem, to keep the passover in the second month.

2 Chronicles 30:5 KJV - So they established a decree to make proclamation throughout all Israel, from Beersheba even to Dan, that they should come to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel at Jerusalem: for they had not done [it] of a long [time in such sort] as it was written.

2 Chronicles 35:7 KJV - And Josiah gave to the people, of the flock, lambs and kids, all for the passover offerings, for all that were present, to the number of thirty thousand, and three thousand bullocks: these [were] of the king's substance.

2 Chronicles 35:8 KJV - And his princes gave willingly unto the people, to the priests, and to the Levites: Hilkiah and Zechariah and Jehiel, rulers of the house of God, gave unto the priests for the passover offerings two thousand and six hundred [small cattle], and three hundred oxen.

2 Chronicles 35:9 KJV - Conaniah also, and Shemaiah and Nethaneel, his brethren, and Hashabiah and Jeiel and Jozabad, chief of the Levites, gave unto the Levites for passover offerings five thousand [small cattle], and five hundred oxen.

2 Chronicles 30:15 KJV - Then they killed the passover on the fourteenth [day] of the second month: and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought in the burnt offerings into the house of the LORD.

2 Chronicles 30:18 KJV - For a multitude of the people, [even] many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one

2 Chronicles 35:1 KJV - Moreover Josiah kept a passover unto the LORD in Jerusalem: and they killed the passover on the fourteenth [day] of the first month.

2 Chronicles 35:6 KJV - So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that [they] may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

2 Chronicles 35:7 KJV - And Josiah gave to the people, of the flock, lambs and kids, all for the passover offerings, for all that were present, to the number of thirty thousand, and three thousand bullocks: these [were] of the king's substance.

2 Chronicles 35:8 KJV - And his princes gave willingly unto the people, to the priests, and to the Levites: Hilkiah and Zechariah and Jehiel, rulers of the house of God, gave unto the priests for the passover offerings two thousand and six hundred [small cattle], and three hundred oxen.

2 Chronicles 35:9 KJV - Conaniah also, and Shemaiah and Nethaneel, his brethren, and Hashabiah and Jeiel and Jozabad, chief of the Levites, gave unto the Levites for passover offerings five thousand [small cattle], and five hundred oxen.

2 Chronicles 35:11 KJV - And they killed the passover, and the priests sprinkled [the blood] from their hands, and the Levites flayed [them].

2 Chronicles 35:13 KJV - And they roasted the passover with fire according to the ordinance: but the [other] holy [offerings] sod they in pots, and in caldrons, and in pans, and divided [them] speedily among all the people.

2 Chronicles 35:16 KJV - So all the service of the LORD was prepared the same day, to keep the passover, and to offer burnt offerings upon the altar of the LORD, according to the commandment of king Josiah.

2 Chronicles 35:17 KJV - And the children of Israel that were present kept the passover at that time, and the feast of unleavened bread seven days.

2 Chronicles 35:18 KJV - And there was no passover like to that kept in Israel from the days of Samuel the prophet; neither did all the kings of Israel keep such a passover as Josiah kept, and the priests, and the Levites, and all Judah and Israel that were present, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 35:19 KJV - In the eighteenth year of the reign of Josiah was this passover kept.

Ezra 6:19 KJV - And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth [day] of the first month.

Ezra 6:20 KJV - For the priests and the Levites were purified together, all of them [were] pure, and killed the passover for all the children of the captivity, and for their brethren the priests, and for themselves.

Ezekiel 45:21 KJV - In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

Matthew 26:2 KJV - Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Matthew 26:17 KJV - Now the first [day] of the [feast of] unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

Matthew 26:18 KJV - And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Matthew 26:19 KJV - And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

Mark 14:1 KJV - After two days was [the feast of] the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put [him] to death.

Mark 14:12 KJV - And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Mark 14:14 KJV - And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

Mark 14:16 KJV - And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

Luke 2:41 KJV - Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

Luke 22:1 KJV - Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

Luke 22:7 KJV - Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

Luke 22:8 KJV - And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

Luke 22:11 KJV - And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

Luke 22:13 KJV - And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

Luke 22:15 KJV - And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

John 2:13 KJV - And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,

John 2:23 KJV - Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast [day], many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

John 6:4 KJV - And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.

John 11:55 KJV - And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.

John 12:1 KJV - Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

John 13:1 KJV - Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

John 18:28 KJV - Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

John 18:39 KJV - But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

John 19:14 KJV - And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

1 Corinthians 5:7 KJV - Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Hebrews 11:28 KJV - Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.​

Thus there are 49 times that the Hebrew word "pecach" is used in the Old Testament [Exodus 12:11,21,27,43,48, 34:25; Leviticus 23:5; Numbers 9:2,4,5,6,10,12,13,14 [2 times], 28:16, 33:3; Deuteronomy 16:1,2,5,6; Joshua 5:10,11; 2 Kings 23:21,22,23; 2 Chronicles 30:1 [two times],2,5,15,17,18 [2 times], 35:1,6,7,8,9,11,13,16,17,18,19; Ezra 6:19,20; Ezekiel 45:21], 46 times as "passover" [Exodus 12:11,21,27,43,48, 34:25; Leviticus 23:5; Numbers 9:2,4,5,6,10,12,13,14[2 times], 28:16, 33:3; Deuteronomy 16:1,2,5,6; Joshua 5:10,11; 2 Kings 23:21,22,23; 2 Chronicles 30:1 [two times],2,5,15,17,18 [2 times], 35:1,6,11,13,16,17,18,19; Ezra 6:19,20; Ezekiel 45:21], and 3 times as "passover offerings" [2 Chronicles 35:7,8,9].

Thus there are 29 times that the Greek word "pascha" is used in the New Testament
[Matthew 26:2,17,18,19; Mark 14:1,12 [2 times],14,16; Luke 2:41, 22:1,7,8,11,13,15; John 2:13,23, 6:4, 11:55 [2 times], 12:1, 13:1, 18:28,39, 19:14; Acts 12:4, 1 Corinthians 5:7; Hebrews 11:28], 28 times it is translated "passover" [Matthew 26:2,17,18,19; Mark 14:1,12 [2 times],14,16; Luke 2:41, 22:1,7,8,11,13,15; John 2:13,23, 6:4, 11:55 [2 times], 12:1, 13:1, 18:28,39, 19:14; 1 Corinthians 5:7; Hebrews 11:28], and 1 time as "easter" [Acts 12:4].

Here is the one time that "easter" is mentioned in Scripture [KJB], and please notice when it is:

Acts 12:4 KJV - And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.​

Let us see the context:

Acts 12:1 KJV - Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth [his] hands to vex certain of the church.

Acts 12:2 KJV - And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

Acts 12:3 KJV - And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Acts 12:4 KJV - And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:5 KJV - Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

Acts 12:6 KJV - And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison.​

etc, Peter being set free that very "night" [first part of the scriptural day, 'evening'], Herod finding out and then having the soldiers killed in the very "day" [light time]. How can this passage be referring to "passover" and not the pagan festival which could occur some time after?

When Jesus said that he would "keep" the "Passover", was it one day at even, or an 8 days, or an 7 days length of time?:

Matthew 26:18 KJV - And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.​
 
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BobRyan

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This is the sort of ridiculous assertion that makes me blow off your entire post, although I certainly had answers to your claims. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the resurrection of our Lord and Savior. .

We have an annual celebration of the birth of Christ and an annual celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ. Passover is not on the resurrection of Christ - it is on the death of Christ. All of which He did "once".

But He was not raised to life "weekly" or "on a 7 day cycle" and he was not born "weekly" or on a 7 day cycle -- neither did they crucify Christ weekly - or on a 7 day cycle.
 
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BobRyan

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Open Heart said:
I don't believe the Jeremiah passage refers to the same New Covenant that we have in Christ. .

Until we read them.

Jer 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”



Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete

All those New Covenant Christians reading this - will see just what is being quoted in Hebrews 8 and will notice whether they themselves are gentiles.

so then - let the objective unbiased reader decide what they are reading in Heb 8 and Jer 31:31-34 for all tradition and doctrine is to be tested "sola scriptura" -- not at all "sola preference"

============================================================
You see, this just isn't true yet.

First of all - if you want to draw the line claiming that Heb 8 is not a direct quote of Jer 31:31-3 and/or that you are not under the New Covenant because the fullness of all the promises given to us under that covenant are not yet realized in face-to-face communion with God... fine.

But a great many of the rest of the people on this board - even Sunday keeping Christians are admitting that we are all under the New Covenant - which is the "one Gospel" providing not only for adoption but also for forgiveness of sins.

I am giving you your free-will choice on the matter - not saying you can' t have that as your solution - but I will continue to make the case that almost 'every other' Christian on this board makes - which is that we are New Covenant Christians.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Open Heart

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Why would anyone call Sunday {"the first [day] of the week"} the Pascha?

Sunday is 3 days too late...

According to Scripture, the "passover" was in one single night, at "even", when the LORD passed over:
You have to understand that for Catholics, Easter is something that really starts on Ash Wednesday and doesn't end until Pentecost Sunday. The heart of it is Holy week, which extends from Palm Sunday, through Tridium (Holy Thursday, Good Friday, & Holy Saturday) and Resurrection Sunday. It is much more of a season than a one day event.

Passover may have been a single night when God delivered the Israelites from Pharoah, but its celebration is a week long. It was STILL the feast of unleavened bread (Passover) when Jesus rose.

At any rate, whether you think it is "sensible" or not, the proper association of Easter is to the Passover, not to some pagan festival, as I've shown you by the term Pascha.
 
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Open Heart

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Passover is not on the resurrection of Christ - it is on the death of Christ. All of which He did "once".
Irrelevant. The POINT is that Christians tied the celebration (Holy Week, culminating in resurrection Sunday) with Passover.
 
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Open Heart

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Until we read them.

Jer 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34
No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Yes, I've read it, especially that in red bold, and I know that it hasn't happened yet.
 
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They deny who Israel is:

Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; 1 Corinthians 15:44-46

They deny who His true children are:

Isaiah 8:8-20; Hebrews 2:10-14

They deny what is in the New Covenant itself:

Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7

They deny that the true children of Israel are to keep the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God Holy:

Exodus 31:13; Acts 13, 15, 18; Revelation 1:10

They do not obey the Everlasting Gospel:

Revelation 14:6-12; Isaiah 58; Job 29; Luke 4

They turn from the Holy Commandment delivered unto them:

Exodus 20:8-11; 2 Peter 2:21

They seek to change times and laws of the Most High God, and in so doing fill the land with violence:

Daniel 7:25; Ezekiel 8:16

They trample upon the rest of the Son of God:

Genesis 1-2; Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:1-13;

God the Father, looks even now upon the wounds/scars of His own beloved Son, Jesus Christ, which was there because of the transgression of the Holy Law of God, the Ten Commandments -- do they think by crucifying afresh the son of God, and trampling upon that Law, changing it, removing it, that they shall escape the vengeance/wrath of God?
 
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Open Heart

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They deny who Israel is:
Welcome again to the forum, if I forgot to say it before! This was too long a post for me to answer. Coul you type out the scriptures, instead of expecting people to look them all up? It's just kind of nicer. :) I wasn't sure who are "THEY"???? "They" seem to be doing way too many things in your post to be addressing all at once. You'll get more bites if you stay on topic and say something succinct. Good luck to you.
 
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Yes, I've read it, especially that in red bold, and I know that it hasn't happened yet.

As I said if you want to claim you are not a New Covenant Christian - that is fine for you.

But the great majority of the rest of us here on this board are under the New Covenant.
 
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BobRyan

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We have an annual celebration of the birth of Christ and an annual celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ. Passover is not on the resurrection of Christ - it is on the death of Christ. All of which He did "once".

But He was not raised to life "weekly" or "on a 7 day cycle" and he was not born "weekly" or on a 7 day cycle -- neither did they crucify Christ weekly - or on a 7 day cycle.

So then - that is the actual Bible on the subject of those events.

Irrelevant. The POINT is that Christians tied the celebration (Holy Week, culminating in resurrection Sunday) with Passover.

The Bible as "irrelevant" and the traditions-of-man as all-important all-consuming -- is where we differ.
 
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Open Heart

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As I said if you want to claim you are not a New Covenant Christian - that is fine for you.
And why would you even make that comment, knowing that I'm a Christian? And that the only kind of Christian there is, is a new covenant Christian?
 
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Open Heart

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So then - that is the actual Bible on the subject of those events.
No, that's your interpretation of the Bible. Big difference.



The Bible as "irrelevant" and the traditions-of-man as all-important all-consuming -- is where we differ.
How mean of you to say that I think the Bible is irrelevant, and how untrue, and worse that you know it not to be the case and yet chose to say it anyway. I came close to reporting this flame.
 
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...Good luck to you.
Luck? No, God's own love. It is so very precious to me. Some may need luck charms, beads, statues, 'holy' water, etc, but not I.

I have Jesus Christ [and thus eternal life] and His word, His Promise, His Prophecy and His Commandments [and understanding therein from Him]:

Proverbs 8:35 KJV - For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.

Revelation 22:14 KJV - Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Proverbs 6:23 KJV - For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life:

John 12:50 KJV - And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.​

Unfortunately, those who continue to refuse to obey Him, shall never enter therein.

1 John 2:4 KJV - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Revelation 21:8 KJV - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

God's word is true, and judges. It is simple.

John 14:15 KJV - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 KJV - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:8 KJV - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 KJV - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 KJV - But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 KJV - For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​
 
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... Coul you type out the scriptures, instead of expecting people to look them all up? ...
Not always, since I follow Jesus:

John 5:39 KJV - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17:11 KJV - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Matthew 21:16 KJV - And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

Mark 2:25 KJV - And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

Matthew 9:13 KJV - But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.​

I will not contribute to the slothfulness of a brother/sister.

Do not be lazy, but instead be noble, a true child of the King. Obey Jesus. "Search the scriptures" "to see whether" these "things are so".

Proverbs 13:4 KJV - The soul of the sluggard desireth, and [hath] nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat.

Proverbs 26:16 KJV - The sluggard [is] wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason.​
 
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Open Heart

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How many True interpretations are there? Where can it be found? What is your definition of "the Bible"?
Who says anyone's interpretations are correct? Maybe we are all a little off. (Some are way way off)

Of course that was just me being objective. The subjective me says that of course their is one correct interpretation and it is that of the Catholic Church, which is the Church founded by Christ, empowered at Pentecost, guided by the Holy Spirit to this day.
 
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Who says anyone's interpretations are correct? Maybe we are all a little off. (Some are way way off)
How would you know correct from incorrect, by what Standard are you judging all interpretations?

Of course that was just me being objective.
By what standard of measurement?

The subjective me says that of course their is one correct interpretation ...
Really? How would you know there is only one correct interpretation? Again, what standard are you measuring by?

... and it is that of the Catholic Church ...
I noticed your capital "C"[atholic]. Your Romanism is showing. However, by what standard would you measure that [the capital] "C"[atholic]ism is the "one" which is the "correct interpretation" and is itself not as Peter himself warned of "private interpretation"?

2 Peter 1:20 KJV - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Who does the interpretation? You or another [singular], or is it a collective?

What do you make of the following passages? Do you think they needed [captial] "C"[atholic]ism:

Genesis 40:18 KJV - And Joseph answered and said, This [is] the interpretation thereof: The three baskets [are] three days:​

Proverbs 1:6 KJV - To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.​

Daniel 4:18 KJV - This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise [men] of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou [art] able; for the spirit of the holy gods [is] in thee.​

Daniel 7:16 KJV - I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.​

Hebrews 7:2 KJV - To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;​

... , which is the Church founded by Christ ...
By what standard are you measuring for your [capital] "C"?

, empowered at Pentecost,
I know of the 120 in the upper room according to scripture, but who are you, were you there?

...guided by the Holy Spirit to this day.
The Holy Spirit? How do you know the "spirit" you are led by is the Holy one? What is the standard of your measure?

I have scripture [KJB] as my standard. What say you?

John 16:13 KJV - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Psalm 119:142 KJV - Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Psalm 119:151 KJV - Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth.

John 17:17 KJV - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.​
 
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Well that's all kind of a no brainer.
Yes, no brains for some perhaps, and sadly at that, since it is what happens when anyone allows a self-styled 'pope' to think for them. Perinde ac cadaver. Ever the staff in the old man's hands. Dead wood, without life. As lifeless as their idols, of wood, stone, etc:


Jeremiah 10:5 KJV - They [are] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also [is it] in them to do good.​

By the way, it's rude to call it Romanism. It's called Catholicism. Thanks.
You ought know your own Romish sources better, but as stated earlier, they are little read by their own:

"... The "Oxford Dictionary" is probably right in assigning the recognition of "Roman Catholic" as the official style of the adherents of the Papacy in England to the negotiations for the Spanish Match (1618-24). In the various treaties etc., drafted in connection with this proposal, the religion of the Spanish princess is almost always spoken of as "Roman Catholic". Indeed in some few instances the word Catholic alone is used. This feature does not seem to occur in any of the negotiations of earlier date which touched upon religion, e.g. those connected with the proposed d'Alencon marriage in Elizabeth's reign, while in Acts of Parliament, proclamations, etc., before the Spanish match, Catholics are simply described as Papists or Recusants, and their religion as popish, Romanish, or Romanist. Indeed long after this period, the use of the term Roman Catholic continued to be a mark of condescension, and language of much more uncomplimentary character was usually preferred. It was perhaps to encourage a friendlier attitude in the authorities that Catholics themselves henceforth began to adopt the qualified term in all official relations with the government. Thus the "Humble Remonstrance, Acknowledgement, Protestation and Petition of the Roman Catholic Clergy of Ireland" in 1661, began "We, your Majesty's faithful subjects the Roman Catholick clergy of Ireland". The same Practice seems to have obtained in Maryland; see or example the Consultation entitled "Objections answered touching Maryland", drafted by Father R Blount, S.J., in 1632 (B. Johnston, "Foundation of Maryland, etc., 1883, 29), and wills proved 22 Sep., 1630, and 19 Dec., 1659, etc., (in Baldwin, "Maryland Cat. of Wills", 19 vols., vol. i. Naturally the wish to conciliate hostile opinion only grew greater as Catholic Emancipation became a question of practical politics, and by that time it would appear that many Catholics themselves used the qualified form not only when addressing the outside public but in their domestic discussions. A short-lived association, organized in 1794 with the fullest approval of the vicars Apostolic, to counteract the unorthodox tendencies of the Cisalpine Club, was officially known as the "Roman Catholic Meeting" (Ward, "Dawn of Cath. Revival in England", II, 65). So, too, a meeting of the Irish bishops under the presidency of Dr. Troy at Dublin in 1821 passed resolutions approving of an Emancipation Bill then before a Parliament, in which they uniformly referred to members of their own communion as "Roman Catholics". Further, such a representative Catholic as Charles Butler in his "Historical Memoirs" (see e.g. vol. IV, 1821, pp. 185, 199, 225, etc., ) frequently uses the term "roman-catholic" [sic] and seems to find this expression as natural as the unqualified form. ..." - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm
 
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