The Gospel

BukiRob · Oct 10, 2015

2KnowHim said:
Life for Life is Soul for Soul, this is True Covenant with God Through His Son Jesus Christ.

Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The Carnal mind is not saved it is put to death so that we can have the mind of Christ.
Didn't you once have a carnal mind? How then are you now able to see and hear the things of The Spirit if it were not for Christ in you destroying those things that oppose themselves to God?

I see, you are of the free will doctrine.....ok, well I don't see how we can continue much in dialog if this be the case, but I will leave you with this....Who is it that grants/initiates repentance to begin with?

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Rom_15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Eph_3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
2Ti_1:18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

The renewing of the mind occurs by the washing of the word. If one does not spend time in the word or fellowship with other believer how then is the mind renewed? Where is the unbeliever renewed? Since the unbeliever is driven by the carnal mind he has no desire to have his mind renewed.

Doesn't Joshua tell the sons of Israel CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM you will serve?

Doesn't the prophet (Elijah) tell the Israelite's How long will you waiver between 2 opinions?

To suggest that we do not have any choice is clearly not supported in scripture.

G-d can do as he see's fit. If he chooses to redeem ALL then that is HIS choice. I just do not see much in the way of scripture that would suggest that we have no ability to choose and/or I can be saved regardless of what I do...

One reduces G-d's plan to mere reward. By doing so it is basically saying that the ONLY difference between the Apostles who were martyred and Hilter is their reward as both are saved..... I have a real issue with that line of doctrine scripturally speaking. That is a pretty big statement and would require a great deal of clear scriptural foundation to rest upon and I am not sure such evidence supports such a thesis

BukiRob · Oct 10, 2015

Steeno7 said:
If you knew scripture you would already know scripture supports it.

Wow. I fear brother it is you who are lacking in understanding of the word. 2 Timothy 4:3 tells us to: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

I have presented to you my understanding of these things founded on scripture. In all of our discussions you have presented on passage of scripture which you were taking out of context and I corrected you (in love and patience) by showing you the surrounding passages to proved the proper context.

Your statement here is neither edification and is certainly not in a spirit of patience or love. It is however a reply spoken from the flesh.

Perhaps instead of saying such a vile thing, you would do well to pray-fully consider some of the questions I presented instead of dismissing them out of hand. If you have an issue with what is stated because it lacks a biblical basis that is one thing... but you have been unable to even begin to establish such a foundation.

The mature believer refutes a position not with rancor but rather with patience and love presenting a firm foundation laid upon precept upon precept of SCRIPTURE.

I certainly do not know scripture as deeply as I would like. I am but a simple man who has spent a long journey in scripture (many, many years) to get what little revelation I have. It only began when I went to G-d willing to lay down all of the doctrine I had been "TAUGHT." Only then did the word become much clearer. Only when I stopped trying to twist and distort to fit a doctrine of men that was clearly refuted by scripture. Only then was I able to see that, that doctrine was false.

Messiah plainly stated taht he did not come to abolish the law and prophets.... yet that is what the mainstream church teaches. It teaches that the LAW was nailed to the cross.... no sir, what was nailed to the cross is the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH... OUR BILL DUE.

In order for the mainstream church to be right Messiah has to have lied But he plainly said

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Pleroo is the greek word for fulfill... and it DOES NOT MEAN to complete or do away with in this passage.....Yet that is exactly what the church teaches.....

2KnowHim · Oct 10, 2015

BukiRob said:
Since the unbeliever is driven by the carnal mind he has no desire to have his mind renewed.

BukiRob said:
To suggest that we do not have any choice is clearly not supported in scripture.

Maybe I'm slow or something but these two statements seem to contradict each other.
How is the unbeliever who is driven by the carnal mind, and has no desire to be renewed, have a choice?
Were we not all under the influence of the carnal mind before God showed us mercy?

Remember it is not us who choose Him, but Him who shows mercy.

Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom_10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Steeno7 · Oct 10, 2015

BukiRob said:
Wow. I fear brother it is you who are lacking in understanding of the word. 2 Timothy 4:3 tells us to: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

I have presented to you my understanding of these things founded on scripture. In all of our discussions you have presented on passage of scripture which you were taking out of context and I corrected you (in love and patience) by showing you the surrounding passages to proved the proper context.

Your statement here is neither edification and is certainly not in a spirit of patience or love. It is however a reply spoken from the flesh.

Perhaps instead of saying such a vile thing, you would do well to pray-fully consider some of the questions I presented instead of dismissing them out of hand. If you have an issue with what is stated because it lacks a biblical basis that is one thing... but you have been unable to even begin to establish such a foundation.

The mature believer refutes a position not with rancor but rather with patience and love presenting a firm foundation laid upon precept upon precept of SCRIPTURE.

I certainly do not know scripture as deeply as I would like. I am but a simple man who has spent a long journey in scripture (many, many years) to get what little revelation I have. It only began when I went to G-d willing to lay down all of the doctrine I had been "TAUGHT." Only then did the word become much clearer. Only when I stopped trying to twist and distort to fit a doctrine of men that was clearly refuted by scripture. Only then was I able to see that, that doctrine was false.

Messiah plainly stated taht he did not come to abolish the law and prophets.... yet that is what the mainstream church teaches. It teaches that the LAW was nailed to the cross.... no sir, what was nailed to the cross is the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH... OUR BILL DUE.

In order for the mainstream church to be right Messiah has to have lied But he plainly said

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Pleroo is the greek word for fulfill... and it DOES NOT MEAN to complete or do away with in this passage.....Yet that is exactly what the church teaches.....

No, what you have done is be obtuse and insulting, and now you have added your hypocrisy and slandering another to the list. Bravo.

jugghead · Oct 10, 2015

out of which nature do we speak when we accuse another?

When I try to do good I find that evil is always present

BukiRob · Oct 11, 2015

2KnowHim said:
Maybe I'm slow or something but these two statements seem to contradict each other.
How is the unbeliever who is driven by the carnal mind, and has no desire to be renewed, have a choice?
Were we not all under the influence of the carnal mind before God showed us mercy?

Remember it is not us who choose Him, but Him who shows mercy.

Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom_10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

I guess this is where I disagree with you. You are right that the unbeliever is not openly seeking G-d. When presented though, you do have a choice. You can accept or reject. That is by definition a choice unless you think/believe that a person has no choice to accept or reject messiah. In which case I do disagree with you.

2KnowHim · Oct 12, 2015

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

2KnowHim said:
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

ph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Grace

khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

I have presented to you why I believe it is not us who choose to follow Him, but His choice, in two different post.
Can you show me where we have a choice to follow Him or not in scripture?

Did Judas have a choice?
Did Paul have a choice?
These are two opposites of the grid.

faroukfarouk · Oct 12, 2015

2KnowHim said:
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

ph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Grace

khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

I have presented to you why I believe it is not us who choose to follow Him, but His choice, in two different post.
Can you show me where we have a choice to follow Him or not in scripture?

Did Judas have a choice?
Did Paul have a choice?
These are two opposites of the grid.

God's grace and sovereignty are wonderful truths!

LoveofTruth · Oct 12, 2015

2KnowHim said:
There are a couple of things you don't seem to understand here, or either youust don't want to.
All of us here, once believed everything that "YOU DO RIGHT NOW" but The Spirit of God opened our eyes, and there is NO way that we could possibly go back to your way of thinking.

You believe that the wheat and the tares are two separate kind of people, "believers and unbelievers". But their not.
They both live and grow together in the same person, in the same soul/life. I understand where you are coming from and this is what is causing you to see everything else, as them and us, or you and them.

Cain and Able, Jacob and Esau, The twins, The one child that was presented to Solomon for a decision, Lazarus and the rich man...etc etc. they are all ONE Person in type, that represent a Pattern of what is within us all that must be severed, purged, and cleansed by fire.
The two in the bed, the two in the field, one caught up the other left...I could go on and on.
God's word is Spirit and Life.

And you keep saying that The Lake of fire is a separation from The Lord, but it's not.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

The only things that are tormented here are the things within us "BECAUSE", they are in the Presence of The Lamb and The Holy angels. It is a separation of sorts, But ONLY the things within us that are not of Him. Those things are of the devil and his messengers that we have ALL partaken of at one time or another, they must be cleansed.
The ones that are not HURT by the second death is because they have been walking with Him in The Fire all along, having it done little by little. Letting the fire consume them, so we can share in His Life here and now.
But make no mistake, ALL will have their part in the Lake of fire.

We are on two different perceptions here, and I see no need to further this convo. You are not going to see the things we do until YOU experience that fire for yourself, and we can't go back, and wouldn't want to anyhow to your way of thinking, we already been there and have come out. All Praise be to The One who sits on The Throne

no, there are children of God and children of the devil. They are not the same person in the end. We read in 1 john 3 about Cain killing abel. Cain was of that wicked one and Bbel of God. As we can draw spiritual examples of those that walk in the flesh and those that walk in the spirit , you cannot take it to the extreme you do and make each person the other person

LoveofTruth · Oct 12, 2015

BukiRob said:
The error of many "Christians" is to completely miss the purpose of the Torah/Law.

No man has ever or will ever be saved through the Law in terms of observance because man in his flesh is at enmity with the Father.

Genesis 15:6 And Abram believed the LORD, and the LORD counted him as righteous because of his faith. In fact, Paul in Romans as well as Galatians cites this very verse.

From the beginning Man was and is saved by FAITH.

What then of the Torah/Law? Isn't its sole purpose to show and convict us of sin? Yes and no. Yes it does indeed do that. But, its also is the means by which we are shown HOW we are to love G-d and our fellow man. In every instance of scripture we find that "doing right in our own eyes is evil" Proverbs tells us that Prv 14:12 and Prv 16:25 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Immediately man will say we have no need of the law because the Spirit will lead us in all truth....And to that I say AMEN! Now what does scripture say truth is?

To that we are shown in scripture that the Torah IS truth. PS 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Thy law is truth.
And Thy law is truth. To the one who says I do not need the Torah because the Spirit will lead me in all truth. True... the Spirit will LEAD you to Torah because Torah IS TRUTH!!!!

We are then told it is the way in which we should go... PS 25:12 Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way the way he should choose.

Finally we are led to this... Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching is light; And reproofs for discipline are the way of life.

Then we find the Messiah saying this... I AM the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father but by me.

We see this in Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called blessed.

When the Scroll is returned to its Ark every Sabbath this is what is said... It is a tree of life to those who lay hold of it and all of its way are pleasantness and blessed are those who hold fast to it.

The Tree of Life (Law/Torah/Jesus) was in the Garden at creation. That is why Adam and Eve were driven out lest they eat of it Genesis 3: 22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

"21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." ( Galatians 3:21- 25

Steeno7 · Oct 12, 2015

jugghead said:
out of which nature do we speak when we accuse another?

When I try to do good I find that evil is always present

Which nature? How many do you think we have?

LAStreetPreacher · Oct 12, 2015

anonymouswho said:
I'm sorry for the delay my friend. I got lost somewhere in all these messages. Thank you very much for your reply.

Yes, I do think annihilation is an infinite amount better than eternal torture, but I just don't find it to be Scriptural. That's my concern with all of these. I only believe the Scriptures, and the Scriptures say:

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:54

The grave has no victory. Annihilation is vastly better than eternal torture, but we have to remember that the Jews never believed in eternal torture to begin with.

Plus there are just too many passages that confirm God is gather all things back to Himself; such as this one:

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." 1 Timothy 4:10

Please consider what Yeshua is trying to tell us:

"And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would.
When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost." John 6:1

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.
And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread.
And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?
Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.
And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, SEVEN.
And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?" Mark 8:15

Thank you my friend and God bless you.

LAStreetPreacher · Oct 12, 2015

Without repeating everything you wrote I'll just comment on this part of your thought: "The grave has no victory. Annihilation is vastly better than eternal torture, but we have to remember that the Jews never believed in eternal torture to begin with.

Plus there are just too many passages that confirm God is gather all things back to Himself; such as this one:

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." 1 Timothy 4:10"

When Paul said that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men we must remember how the word "all" is used in scripture.
Sometimes the word "all" is used to mean all without exception and at other times "all" is used to be all without distinction. It is the later meaning I believe the apostle has in view. Let me explain by using some scriptural examples.

Example #1 When it was said of John the Baptist that "There went out unto him all the country of Judaea, and all they of Jerusalem; and they were baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins" (Mark 1:5), we know that this doesn't mean every man, woman and child were baptized and yet that is what this passage seems to be saying doesn't it? When we compare Luke 7:30 it says, "But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being NOT BAPTIZED of him."

So what does "all baptized of him" mean? It clearly does not mean all without exception but rather all without distinction as in all classes of people.

Example #2 In John 8:2 we read: "And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them." Does the word "all" here mean every single person in Jerusalem? Obviously not because the temple could not accommodate every single person in Jerusalem nor would all the people desire to sit under the teaching of Jesus espcially the Scribes and Pharisees. We must conclude therefore that "all" in John 8:2 means all without distinction meaning all kinds and classes of people. That best fits the context.

Example #3 In Acts 22:16 it says, "For thou (Paul) shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou has seen and heard."
Surely we can not understand the world "all men" to include every single person in the human race can we?

Example #4, 5 & 6 We read that after Peter and John had healed the lame man at the door of the temple, "all men glorified God for that which was done" (Acts 4:21). Not all men glorified God for what was done because we know there were many who hated Jesus. Jesus told his disciples that they would be "hated of all men" for His name's sake (Luke 21:17). Not every man hates Jesus. His disciples and all who believe on him love him. And when Jesus said, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself" (John 12:32), He certainly did not mean that every individual of mankind would be so drawn. What He did mean was that Jews and Gentiles, men of all nations and races, would be drawn to Him. And that is what we see is actually happening.

Now back to 1 Timothy 4:10 which many try to use to prove "universalism" that is, that salvation is universal and that God has purposed to save every single person in the human race. By now you should understand that "all" doesn't mean necessarily "all without exception" but can mean "all without distinction." With this in mind let us read this passage again.

1 Timothy 4:10 "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, (without distinction...all kinds of men, rich, poor, sick, healthy, Germans, Jews, Russians, etc) specially of those that believe." When it says specially of those that believe we know that Jesus is truly the redeemer of those given to him by the Father, that is, the elect chosen before the foundation of the world. (John 17:1-3; Eph. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13)

jugghead · Oct 13, 2015

Stenno7 question: Which nature? How many do you think we have?

will rephrase the question ..... who is speaking through us when we accuse another?

And again I will repeat ..... when I try to do good I find evil is always present

So with that being said ..... if we are of the Spirit (the divine nature) we should not allow Satan (the flesh nature) to speak through us and accuse another

2KnowHim · Oct 13, 2015

LoveofTruth said:
no, there are children of God and children of the devil. They are not the same person in the end. We read in 1 john 3 about Cain killing abel. Cain was of that wicked one and Bbel of God. As we can draw spiritual examples of those that walk in the flesh and those that walk in the spirit , you cannot take it to the extreme you do and make each person the other person

To be spiritually minded is Life and Peace, God's Word is Spirit and life.
God birthed His Son out of His own being, God's Son is His Word.
The same as us, we bring forth The Son in The same manner.
We bear children in the spirit also, till they become The Son/Truth.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, the twins in the womb, these are all outward pictures of things we wrestle with like Jacob did within us, things that have been sown by wicked one, and things that are sown by The Spirit of God. Until we all come to the place where our name/nature is changed, such as Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul. Then and only then can we birth The Son, and many more children after His kind.

If it is as you understand it to be, ex. Cain and Able, (two separate people), how do you explain them coming forth from the one man Adam?
We do birth children in the Spirit, our words are our children the same as God has many children by The one Son/His Word. Or have you never read we are All the offspring of God?

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Steeno7 · Oct 13, 2015

jugghead said:
Stenno7 question: Which nature? How many do you think we have?

will rephrase the question ..... who is speaking through us when we accuse another?

And again I will repeat ..... when I try to do good I find evil is always present

So with that being said ..... if we are of the Spirit (the divine nature) we should not allow Satan (the flesh nature) to speak through us and accuse another

Are you accusing me of something??

BukiRob · Oct 13, 2015

2KnowHim said:
To be spiritually minded is Life and Peace, God's Word is Spirit and life.
God birthed His Son out of His own being, God's Son is His Word.
The same as us, we bring forth The Son in The same manner.
We bear children in the spirit also, till they become The Son/Truth.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, the twins in the womb, these are all outward pictures of things we wrestle with like Jacob did within us, things that have been sown by wicked one, and things that are sown by The Spirit of God. Until we all come to the place where our name/nature is changed, such as Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul. Then and only then can we birth The Son, and many more children after His kind.

If it is as you understand it to be, ex. Cain and Able, (two separate people), how do you explain them coming forth from the one man Adam?
We do birth children in the Spirit, our words are our children the same as God has many children by The one Son/His Word. Or have you never read we are All the offspring of God?

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Wait are you suggesting that Cain and Able did not exist?

They are physical realities showing a spiritual truth.

Marriage is a shadow/type of the greater spiritual reality between the Bride (Ecclesia) and Messiah.

2KnowHim · Oct 13, 2015

BukiRob said:
Wait are you suggesting that Cain and Able did not exist?
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They are physical realities showing a spiritual truth.

Marriage is a shadow/type of the greater spiritual reality between the Bride (Ecclesia) and Messiah.

No I'm not suggesting that at all. And I do agree they are Physical realities showing us Truth.
As far as the bride, ecclesia, being the Church, this I am not so sure about.
How can His Body be His bride?

BukiRob · Oct 13, 2015

2KnowHim said:
No I'm not suggesting that at all. And I do agree they are Physical realities showing us Truth.
As far as the bride, ecclesia, being the Church, this I am not so sure about.
How can His Body be His bride?

Because its called that.

Eph 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it; that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.

2KnowHim · Oct 14, 2015

I know what the scriptures say, but that doesn't mean I have understanding on it yet. There is a bride and there is a bride wife too in Rev. this also is something I don't understand as of yet. The only difference between the two is consummation, but I think even in Jewish tradition a bride is considered married even if she is betrothed.

Even Paul calls this a great mystery, so.....I think a lot of people quote it but don't truly understand it, if their honest about it.....just saying.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

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