Archbishop Robert J. Carlson and Rev. Dr. Matthew C. Harrison... have issued a statement...

MarkRohfrietsch

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Sword of the Lord

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Uniting with the RCC against such an atrocity is good, as is uniting with anyone against such an atrocity, RCC or not. Let's not get too cozy, though.

With that said, the videos literally made me sick to my stomach. The fact that the world largely doesn't care and supports this garbage doesn't surprise me; but the fact that so-called Christians want to pass this off as nothing, continue to support abortion, and attack those who take issue against the murder of children makes me so angry and sick. Hopefully Planned Parenthood is fully and completely defunded. Hopefully they all repent, and God brings their buildings to the ground.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Uniting with the RCC against such an atrocity is good, as is uniting with anyone against such an atrocity, RCC or not. Let's not get too cozy, though.

With that said, the videos literally made me sick to my stomach. The fact that the world largely doesn't care and supports this garbage doesn't surprise me; but the fact that so-called Christians want to pass this off as nothing, continue to support abortion, and attack those who take issue against the murder of children makes me so angry and sick. Hopefully Planned Parenthood is fully and completely defunded. Hopefully they all repent, and God brings their buildings to the ground.
We will remain as "cozy" with our fellow Christians as both we and they are comfortable with; and in moral and ethical issues we are very, very comfortable supporting each other in the light of Scripture.:preach:
 
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Sword of the Lord

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We will remain as "cozy" with our fellow Christians as both we and they are comfortable with; and in moral and ethical issues we are very, very comfortable supporting each other in the light of Scripture.:preach:
You can speak for, what, the LCC? We in the LCMS will keep our liturgical distance from the pope of Rome.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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You can speak for, what, the LCC? We in the LCMS will keep our liturgical distance from the pope of Rome.
This is off topic.

...and BTW, this is the LCMS and a representative of the CC issuing this joint statement. You may not realize what's going on within your own synod.
 
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brinny

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MarkRohfrietsch

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Because I respect you both, and the last thing I want to see is a classic internet fight, I'm going to point out that you two are definitely talking about different things.
Indeed; this is about two Christian leaders from divergent theologies, supporting each other on a theological and social issue in which they (and their respective Churches) both agree.

God bless them both.
 
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LizaMarie

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Personally- I think it's great. Christians need to work together fighting the evil.
This is one area where I really sometimes wish I were LCMS over WELS. I love my little church but just working with other Christians doesn't mean you have to agree on every jot and tittle point of doctrine.
Take The National March for life, for example. YOu have RC, Eastern Orthodox, LCMS, evangelicals,ect working together to speak up against this great evil. And also speaking for up for marriage, as well in other forums.
I very much like this statement.
 
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Athanasias

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You can speak for, what, the LCC? We in the LCMS will keep our liturgical distance from the pope of Rome.
I can only speak for from what I have seen. I live and work in St. Louis at a Catholic store. I talk to many Lutheran LCMS ministers and scholars, and seminarians on a almost daily basis who buy liturgical things from my store. I also talk to alot of Catholic Seminarians and priest. I can honestly say there is alot of friendships and ecumenical good relationships between the Catholic and LCMS Lutherans in St. Louis on a seminary level and personal level.

I know personally from talking to both sides. They like each other, get together on a semi regular basis(this includes the seminarians from Concordia and Kenrick and their professors and ministers) and prayerfully discuss/debate doctrine, eat, and play sports against each other. Many of the LCMS are friends with our priest and sems. This is true so much so that they used to share the same biblical greek professor(VELS) for years. And Concordia allowed our Catholic sems to use their parking lot when our campus was being remodeled for a year. For the most part they are very supportive and friendly for one another even if there are points they disagree with each other on. But even then they share alot of liturgical history and theology as I have discussed with the LCMS guys that come in my store.

At least in St. Louis(where your Either Catholic or Lutheran) there is alot of good relations between the two and as traditional liturgical Christians we support each other and the morals that Christ taught in scripture.
 
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GracetotheHumble

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I can only speak for from what I have seen. I live and work in St. Louis at a Catholic store. I talk to many Lutheran LCMS ministers and scholars, and seminarians on a almost daily basis who buy liturgical things from my store. I also talk to alot of Catholic Seminarians and priest. I can honestly say there is alot of friendships and ecumenical good relationships between the Catholic and LCMS Lutherans in St. Louis on a seminary level and personal level.

I know personally from talking to both sides. They like each other, get together on a semi regular basis(this includes the seminarians from Concordia and Kenrick and their professors and ministers) and prayerfully discuss/debate doctrine, eat, and play sports against each other. Many of the LCMS are friends with our priest and sems. This is true so much so that they used to share the same biblical greek professor(VELS) for years. And Concordia allowed our Catholic sems to use their parking lot when our campus was being remodeled for a year. For the most part they are very supportive and friendly for one another even if there are points they disagree with each other on. But even then they share alot of liturgical history and theology as I have discussed with the LCMS guys that come in my store.

At least in St. Louis(where your Either Catholic or Lutheran) there is alot of good relations between the two and as traditional liturgical Christians we support each other and the morals that Christ taught in scripture.

This wasn't the case when the Pope was burning Protestants at the stake.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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This wasn't the case when the Pope was burning Protestants at the stake.

Or when we looted Rome; or when the Calvinists ran my ancestors out of Alsace; but that is indeed the way it is now. Open, official dialogues between our respective Churches is now the norm. This is a reality. As a Lutheran, you may need to either get with the program or depart the main-stream and join one of the more isolationist synods that exist on the fringes of Lutheranism.

Opening old wounds will yield no glory for any of us.
 
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GracetotheHumble

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Or when we looted Rome; or when the Calvinists ran my ancestors out of Alsace; but that is indeed the way it is now. Open, official dialogues between our respective Churches is now the norm. This is a reality. As a Lutheran, you may need to either get with the program or depart the main-stream and join one of the more isolationist synods that exist on the fringes of Lutheranism.

Opening old wounds will yield no glory for any of us.

We must not forget that it is our doctrine that the Pope of Rome is that man of sin the antiChrist who opposes and exalts himself above the God of heaven.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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We must not forget that it is our doctrine that the Pope of Rome is that man of sin the antiChrist who opposes and exalts himself above the God of heaven.
Actually, it is the office of the papacy and the attributes of infallibility and universal supremacy that are anti-Christian. Take time to read the treatise and you will note that there are clear statements about how the Pope should behave. This makes it clear that a Pope could avoid these anti-christian aspects of the office. In this case, it is very clear that both the Archbishop of St. Louis and the National Bishop of the LCMS are moving forward where they can; no compromise on either side required.

Why not stay focused on the evil done to the unborn daily and even as we speak, instead of evils and hardened hearts that originated 500 years ago? The LCMS is not turning Catholic, nor the Catholic Church turning LCMS any time soon; so I think you have nothing to worry about. While we should and can not forget the past; living in the past often means we have no future.

Christendom in the west is faltering and collapsing; we need to unite against the root causes. Vilifying the Pope is not a viable countermeasure to counteract the decline of Christianity.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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We must not forget that it is our doctrine that the Pope of Rome is that man of sin the antiChrist who opposes and exalts himself above the God of heaven.
BTW, this is off topic and against the rules of CF as is my reply above.

Let's post on topic and take the hate elsewhere.
 
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LizaMarie

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Thanks LizaMarie,

Is there anything that would preclude WELS from participating in this sort of thing; yes, this is unity in belief, but this is not theological fellowship.
Well, I will have to find the little booklet I was given a few years ago on WELS and fellowship by our pastor, but from what I'm guessing now, they would take issue with joining with the RCC on just about anything -which I think is sort of ridiculous in some ways. I like the LCMS much better on this issue. On this issue we are not in any way saying we agree with all doctrine we are just joining in a common cause. I think the WELS is even stricter than the LCMS on things like this.
We are not allowed to even pray at public events with other(non Lutheran) Christians, or attend things that do not specifically pray in Jesus name. Now the WELS does consider RCC, Orthodox, Baptists, ect, to be fellow Christians that teach most of the truth but that have let error creep in to their teachings(per our church) so no fellowship. So not like some super fundamentalist churches that think the RCC is the harlot of Babylon or something.
I was given this booklet by our pastor when my then middle-school aged son wanted to attend am overnight para-church outing with non- Lutherans, that would include some scripture study, ect. Personally I had no problem with it as my son was well versed in what we believed and would not be swayed as he attended our parochial school and it was just an overnight thing. (So I let him go). I think our Pastor was concerned ( and with some validity) that he would be swayed into the Anabaptist way of seeing salvation. I figured it was way better than some of the things he could be involved on an overnight trip.
 
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LizaMarie

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Actually, it is the office of the papacy and the attributes of infallibility and universal supremacy that are anti-Christian. Take time to read the treatise and you will note that there are clear statements about how the Pope should behave. This makes it clear that a Pope could avoid these anti-christian aspects of the office. In this case, it is very clear that both the Archbishop of St. Louis and the National Bishop of the LCMS are moving forward where they can; no compromise on either side required.

Why not stay focused on the evil done to the unborn daily and even as we speak, instead of evils and hardened hearts that originated 500 years ago? The LCMS is not turning Catholic, nor the Catholic Church turning LCMS any time soon; so I think you have nothing to worry about. While we should and can not forget the past; living in the past often means we have no future.

Christendom in the west is faltering and collapsing; we need to unite against the root causes. Vilifying the Pope is not a viable countermeasure to counteract the decline of Christianity.
Good post and you are correct exactly. As my deceased mother said in the last year of her life(and she is LCMS) "Christians must find common cause and work together the way the world is going".
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Well, I will have to find the little booklet I was given a few years ago on WELS and fellowship by our pastor, but from what I'm guessing now, they would take issue with joining with the RCC on just about anything -which I think is sort of ridiculous in some ways. I like the LCMS much better on this issue. On this issue we are not in any way saying we agree with all doctrine we are just joining in a common cause. I think the WELS is even stricter than the LCMS on things like this.
We are not allowed to even pray at public events with other(non Lutheran) Christians, or attend things that do not specifically pray in Jesus name. Now the WELS does consider RCC, Orthodox, Baptists, ect, to be fellow Christians that teach most of the truth but that have let error creep in to their teachings(per our church) so no fellowship. So not like some super fundamentalist churches that think the RCC is the harlot of Babylon or something.
I was given this booklet by our pastor when my then middle-school aged son wanted to attend am overnight para-church outing with non- Lutherans, that would include some scripture study, ect. Personally I had no problem with it as my son was well versed in what we believed and would not be swayed as he attended our parochial school and it was just an overnight thing. (So I let him go). I think our Pastor was concerned ( and with some validity) that he would be swayed into the Anabaptist way of seeing salvation. I figured it was way better than some of the things he could be involved on an overnight trip.
Actually, being WELS, I doubt you would officially be able to participate with the LCMS/LCC even if it were just our Churches.
 
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