ONE FOR ALL, ALL FOR ONE—UNDERSTANDING THE TITHING PRINCIPLE

pdudgeon · Oct 2, 2015

DamianWarS said:
The word "tithing" is OT language meaning literally a tenth and I believe it is irresponsible to continue using this language as it will always invoke the OT perspective.

The NT concept is not "tithing" but instead "giving". It is about the heart in it over the amount showing that giving with the wrong spirit is meaningless but with the right focus is redemptive and builds unity. It is also not about giving once a week in a passed around plate it is about meeting the needs of the church community.

The corporate church tends to micromanage this value which is not altogether wrong but it does tend to remove the heart element and promotes giving an exact amount each week rather than focusing on the needs which may require a lot more. Those needs may very well be met but many have no idea where the money goes and don't really know how they are contributing which can stifle giving or create mismanaged spending. When a great need comes up people can have an attidude of not desiring to give over their weekly amount. The system is so set that people do not want to hear the needs and would rather give blindly.

A more biblical system would be focused around a house church and a lot of volunteering among members and surprisingly they do not need million dollar budgets to run. Rather than bogging down "needs" with a large list of building maintenance and extra staff people tend to care more and give when needs arise and they tend to be more focused on member care. Like Mrs. Smith needs a new oven but can't afford one, so the need is presented and people give to care for the need of Mrs. Smith. It's a far simpler system and much more biblical than what we see in modern churches today.

there's only one problem with that approach.
the people are in charge making the decisions instead of God,
or as in some cases even instead of the pastor.

Who are we to decide if Mrs. Smith should receive help from the church for her new oven?
and why should we be in such a position in the first place?

If it is put to the church to approve, half of them would say yes,
and the other half would say "when is it my turn?" or "she doesn't manage her money well,
and she'll just take the money and spend it on something else."

learn to let God manage the money for each family, and these problems won't happen.

Strong in Him · Oct 2, 2015

pdudgeon said:
put all three of those points together, and it is possible for anyone to learn how to tithe.

Anyone can tithe, by simply giving 10% of their wages to the church. My point was that this is not taught in Scripture, is not a commandment and churches should not make people feel guilty if they can't do it.

One lady joined our church simply because a member in her previous church sat down beside her one day and said, "tell me how much you earn, and I'll help you sort out your giving." This should not happen; how much a person decides to give to the church is between themselves and God.

faroukfarouk · Oct 2, 2015

Strong in Him said:
Anyone can tithe, by simply giving 10% of their wages to the church. My point was that this is not taught in Scripture, is not a commandment and churches should not make people feel guilty if they can't do it.

One lady joined our church simply because a member in her previous church sat down beside her one day and said, "tell me how much you earn, and I'll help you sort out your giving." This should not happen; how much a person decides to give to the church is between themselves and God.

Strong in Him: Well, exactly. When churches start functioning like a business, it's time to read the Scripture passages about the demise of Babylon.

pdudgeon · Oct 4, 2015

Strong in Him said:
Anyone can tithe, by simply giving 10% of their wages to the church. My point was that this is not taught in Scripture, is not a commandment and churches should not make people feel guilty if they can't do it.

One lady joined our church simply because a member in her previous church sat down beside her one day and said, "tell me how much you earn, and I'll help you sort out your giving." This should not happen; how much a person decides to give to the church is between themselves and God.

where to start...
1. it was the Law in Jesus' day. remember the coin in the fish's mouth that Peter used to pay the Temple tax (another word for tithing) for himself and Jesus?
they also had to pay tax to the Romans. Remember that both Zacheus and Matthew were tax collectors.
Jews today still pay a temple tax.

2. anyone can tithe is correct. the plain fact is that almost all do not tithe, because they are too used to tipping for a service rendered.
in fact, many people tip better for a meal out, than they give to the church!
For far too many the deciding factor is to give what is left over--scraping the bottom of the barrel--rather than giving off the top.

for me it was scraping the bottom of my wallet for my last 2 cents that changed my mind.
I felt terrible that the 2 cents was all i had available to give, even though in my heart i wanted to give more.
I asked God for a second chance to do the right thing, He granted it to me, and i've been on an uphill climb ever since that day.

Giving is not a drugery, it is a joy.

Strong in Him · Oct 4, 2015

pdudgeon said:
where to start...
1. it was the Law in Jesus' day. remember the coin in the fish's mouth that Peter used to pay the Temple tax (another word for tithing) for himself and Jesus?
they also had to pay tax to the Romans. Remember that both Zacheus and Matthew were tax collectors.
Jews today still pay a temple tax.

Tithing was Jewish law and Jesus was a Jew. Paying a compulsory tax to the temple, or the Romans, is not the same as freely giving to God, or the work of God.

pdudgeon said:
2. anyone can tithe is correct. the plain fact is that almost all do not tithe, because they are too used to tipping for a service rendered.
in fact, many people tip better for a meal out, than they give to the church!
For far too many the deciding factor is to give what is left over--scraping the bottom of the barrel--rather than giving off the top.

People may give in other ways, so how do you know that some decide to give only what they have left over? If a person gives time and money to the church - teaching Sunday school, gardening, helping with maintenance, baking cakes for sale or to be enjoyed over coffee - and they don't charge for their time or claim expenses, why on earth should they feel guilty about only putting a few coins into the offertory plate? How do you, and they, decide how to give? Should it be ALL to the offertory, some to the offertory, some to charity and some in providing a meal, or mini break, for the stressed Pastor?
Supposing you are in a church - as I am - which spends about 70% of money on maintaining its buildings, and you don't believe that buildings are that important? Are buildings God's main priority; what about feeding the hungry, visiting the sick etc?
Supposing God gives you a vision for the church and the direction it should go, and no one else shares it; supposing he tells you NOT to give to the church fund for a while but to give the money elsewhere?
Supposing God is asking the church to do something, or serve him in some way, the leadership aren't listening and he decides to withhold financial blessing until they learn to trust him?

pdudgeon said:
Giving is not a drugery, it is a joy.

Yes, it is. But the teaching "you have to give 10% cash to the church because tithing is Scriptural, and if you don't you are failing as a Christian, robbing God and won't be blessed by him", only makes people feel guilty or under pressure if they don't do it.

I very much doubt that any pastor says, "no, you can't give 25%, it has to be 10%" or even "Mrs x was able to give 25% this month so don't worry about giving only 5%; next month you might be able to give 25%, while someone else can only give 3 or 4%."

faroukfarouk · Oct 4, 2015

Strong in Him said:
Tithing was Jewish law and Jesus was a Jew. Paying a compulsory tax to the temple, or the Romans, is not the same as freely giving to God, or the work of God.

People may give in other ways, so how do you know that some decide to give only what they have left over? If a person gives time and money to the church - teaching Sunday school, gardening, helping with maintenance, baking cakes for sale or to be enjoyed over coffee - and they don't charge for their time or claim expenses, why on earth should they feel guilty about only putting a few coins into the offertory plate? How do you, and they, decide how to give? Should it be ALL to the offertory, some to the offertory, some to charity and some in providing a meal, or mini break, for the stressed Pastor?
Supposing you are in a church - as I am - which spends about 70% of money on maintaining its buildings, and you don't believe that buildings are that important? Are buildings God's main priority; what about feeding the hungry, visiting the sick etc?
Supposing God gives you a vision for the church and the direction it should go, and no one else shares it; supposing he tells you NOT to give to the church fund for a while but to give the money elsewhere?
Supposing God is asking the church to do something, or serve him in some way, the leadership aren't listening and he decides to withhold financial blessing until they learn to trust him?

Yes, it is. But the teaching "you have to give 10% cash to the church because tithing is Scriptural, and if you don't you are failing as a Christian, robbing God and won't be blessed by him", only makes people feel guilty or under pressure if they don't do it.

I very much doubt that any pastor says, "no, you can't give 25%, it has to be 10%" or even "Mrs x was able to give 25% this month so don't worry about giving only 5%; next month you might be able to give 25%, while someone else can only give 3 or 4%."

A number of years ago, the Church Commissioners in the UK seemed to blow a huge amount of money on the stock market; their 'soulution'? the people in the pew needed to give more.

When the professing church behaves like a business, it's time for Biblical simplicity to be reverted to.

Strong in Him · Oct 4, 2015

faroukfarouk said:
A number of years ago, the Church Commissioners in the UK seemed to blow a huge amount of money on the stock market; their 'soulution'? the people in the pew needed to give more.

I know! You'd think they might have sold a cathedral or two to compensate - or move their bishops into ordinary housing.

SAAN · Oct 5, 2015

DWJL511 said:
Sometime in the late nineties, I had what I like to call a “personal spiritual revival.” Due to an unfortunate event, I actually came to be “on fire for God,” and there was a great peace. The flowers looked more colorful, the trees were greener, even the setting sun and darkening skies could make me smile. I was also baptized in the Spirit, and spoke in tongues to praise God for His wonderful creation.

In that season, something was birthed in my heart. As the Bible says, God can work new desires into your heart (Philippians 2:13). I started having a desire to give a portion of my modest income to God—not once off, but regularly.

I was attending a traditional Methodist church then and all I knew about giving regularly (besides Sunday offerings) was the “pledge.” My father had been pledging some of his income or pension to the church annually. I wanted to do the same. No one put a gun to my head. And I didn’t think God would curse me if I didn’t.

Then, I heard a cassette-tape sermon by a pastor who is now my pastor. He taught on tithing (something he rarely does)—not under law and obligation, but under grace and revelation. It all clicked. That desire in my heart was fleshed out with words and scriptures. It was a confirmation that I was on the right track, and as they say, the rest is history.

Today, many years, and tithes, later, I have grown in my understanding of tithing, and that’s what I want to talk about. Just what is tithing?

First off, many Christians say that tithing is obsolete because the Old Testament folks tithed grains, seeds, wine, oil, fruits and flocks, and not dollars and cents. If you bring up the case of Abraham, they will likewise say that if you want to follow Abraham’s example, you will have to fight a war and make sure you win so you can tithe on the spoils.

I find these arguments rather silly. It’s like saying if you want to preach today the right way to do it is to use your bare voice and a donkey, and not any of the modern technologies—public address systems, radio, television, the Internet, and land and air transportation systems—since they didn’t use these things back in Bible days. Or, if you want to get baptized in the Spirit, then you must like the early disciples go to Jerusalem and tarry there, until Pentecost is fully come!

Tithing is really not that difficult to understand and appreciate, once you understand a certain economic principle that God has. And the principle is this:

Romans 11:16, NIV
If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy…

If you set apart unto God (that is what it means to “make holy”) a firstfruits (first or best pickings) portion of your “harvest” (whatever that may be in modern times), your entire “harvest” is also sanctified or made holy. In other words, Offering just the firstfruits is equivalent to offering the entire harvest.

This principle is inherent in the tithe too. If you tithe just 10% of the increase you have to God, you have in effect given your entire increase (all 100% of it) to God. The entire batch or lump becomes holy just because of the tithe. Like the firstfruits, The tithe or 10% is a representative of the whole.

Let me make this clearer with a simple illustration.

Let’s say you have 100 shirts to give to an orphanage. According the world’s economic principles, if you want to give all your shirts to the orphanage, you would have to give all 100 shirts. Simple Math. But according to God’s economic principle of the tithe, giving just 10 shirts (10%) is as good as giving all 100 shirts (100%). As far as God is concerned, in giving just 10% you have given everything.

I mentioned earlier that the entire batch or the 100% becomes holy (or set apart unto God) just through the offering of the firstfruits or the tithe. What’s the benefit of the entire batch becoming holy? Well, what’s set apart unto God is blessed and protected by God. So if you tithe 10% of your income to God, He blesses and protects the rest. Despite having 10% less after tithing, I have always had enough at the end of the month. All these years, I have never lacked. There are other benefits of tithing too, like how it helps us break the hold or love of money—the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10). If you don’t want your children to grow up loving money, then get them to tithe from a young age, or as soon as they start earning.

Once you understand God’s principle of the tithe—how the tenth represents the whole or how it is “one for all, all for one”—you will see that this principle is also inherent in other well-known Bible doctrines and stories, since it is a divine principle that never goes out of style. Here are a few examples:

• If you break just 1 commandment (10%) out of the 10 commandments, as far as God is concerned, you have broken ALL 10 (James 2:10).

• The Holy Spirit convicts people of just 1 sin—the sin of unbelief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (John 16:9). But if you repent of just this 1 sin and believe in Jesus, you are justified not just from this 1 sin but also from ALL sins of your entire life (Acts 13:39). One for all, all for one!

• In his negotiation with the Lord to not destroy the city of Sodom, Abraham went from 50 righteous men all the way down to just 10 righteous men, to which the Lord said, “I will not destroy it for the sake of TEN” (Genesis 18:32). Just 10 righteous men, symbolic of the 10%, were enough for the Lord to spare ALL the other men of the city!

• Abraham’s servant, who was tasked to look for a bride for Isaac, took just 10 of his master’s camels along with him, yet the Bible tells us this: “for ALL his master’s goods were in his hand” (Genesis 24:10). The servant didn’t need to bring along everything, just 10 camels symbolic of the 10%, and that was enough to show others that his master had entrusted ALL his goods to him.

• ALL the Israelites had to wander in the desert because of the evil report of the 10 spies, who were symbolic of the 10% (Numbers 14:34–35). Once more, we see how the 10% represents ALL. The fate of the ENTIRE nation for the next forty years was determined by the faithless 10.

There are other examples, but I think you get the point.

When you understand the principle of the tithe and see how it is used throughout Scripture, you will begin to understand how it can also apply to various aspects of your walk with God.

Do you want all 24 hours of your day to be made holy and blessed by the Lord? Then give the first pickings—the first few minutes or moments of the day—to the Lord. That’s why we do morning devotions or “quiet time.” You’ll find that the rest of your day goes smoother, even if you face challenges.

If you want your entire week sanctified and blessed as well, then set apart one day, such as Sunday, for the Lord. Yes, go to church and worship Him, and He will bless the rest of your week.

Now we come to the touchy part—tithing on our salaries.

Many Christians like to say, “Lord, all that I have is Yours. I give You everything!”

While the first statement is true since He gave us life and holds our breath in His hand, the second statement is rather absurd, an impossibility, naturally speaking.

You can’t give ALL of your money to the Lord. How are you going to pay the bills or put food on the table for your children? Who’s going to pay the rent and taxes? It’s just not practical or feasible.

God understands this, and He is a very practical God. He says, “If you really want to give Me ‘everything,’ here’s how you can still do it: give a tenth to Me and you’ve given everything to Me.”

Simply give a tenth of your salary, and you’ve given it all to Him. You’ll also find that the remaining 90% goes a longer way than if you had kept it all for yourself.

So that’s the principle of the tithe. Once you grasp it, you won’t miss the forest for the trees. You won’t split hairs and get caught up in details—“It’s agricultural produce, not money!”—and miss the big picture, with all its blessings.

The bible says to not add or subtract from the word of God. To say that you must tithe 10% of your income or you are robbing God is adding to the word of God, as there is no command anywhere in the Torah that says to tithe 10% of your income. Jesus loves a cheerful giver, so to give freely from your heart 5, 10, 15 or 20% is what he is looking for, not a legalistic, 10% or that's robbing me, that these prosperity gospel churches are teaching.

We can break down the out of context Mal 3:8

Malachi 3:8
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

- Mal 1 explains how they robbed God by offering lame and beaten up animals that they wouldnt even offer their governor, but it doesnt say because they were not giving 10% of their income.
Malachi 1:6-8 (KJV)
6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible.

8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts.

-Deut 17:1 is the command of God they were breaking Mal 1:6-8 and Mal 3:8 points out how they were robbing God.
Deuteronomy 17:1 (NKJV)
17 “You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God a bull or sheep which has any blemish or defect, for that is an abomination to the Lord your God.

The only way you are robbing God is if you can afford to give an offering and choose to give nothing at all!

Acts24Fourteen · Oct 9, 2015

Frogster said:
Tithing is something that most pastors seem to think is a rule for the church, even though it is not.

The Holy Tithe, the firstfruits, which belongs unto the LORD is not only present from the beginning in Genesis, but found throughout from Genesis to Malachi, and also from Matthew to Revelation.

The Holy Tithe is God's command/law for all, not a rule of any 'pastor' [except it be the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls, Jesus Christ], and it is especially for the faithful Church, as faithful stewards to return that which belongs unto God, rightly, otherwise, it is verily robbing God of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, of which the Tithe is a demonstration of, by faith.

Do not rob God "Frogster", as these 'frogs' [Revelation 16:13] do, for it is written:

1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Does any say it is not part of the New Covenant? As it is written, "... Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." [Matthew 22:29]

Read Malachi, more closely, for Malachi 3 is verily in the context of the New Covenant itself, centered in Jesus Christ:

Malachi 3:1 - Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Are any a child of Abraham, in/by faith? Let us test their boldness of claim by the word of God, whether it be genuine faith or lawless presumption:

[For I notice, that you so love 'Galatian's, but is it in Truth, according to the written word of God, let us test by it]

Galatians 3:29 - And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

John 8:39 - They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

As it is written:

Hebrews 7:1 - For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

Hebrews 7:2 - To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Hebrews 7:3 - Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 7:4 - Now consider how great this man [was], unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Hebrews 7:5 - And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:6 - But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 - And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Hebrews 7:8 - And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Hebrews 7:9 - And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Hebrews 7:10 - For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Consider "Frogster", most closely, for the word of God is clear, to not return the Holy Tithe, which symbolizes Jesus Christ and His righteousness, being the Holy firstfruits, is to rob God, of that which only He can accept, for He cannot accept our so-called 'righteousness', nor from/of our own spirit.

Abraham was faithful, as a father of the faithful, in returning the Holy Tithe, the firstfruits, to the type of Jesus Christ, Melchizedek [Melchisedec]. Thus, as faithful Abraham, the faithful children/seed so too also return it unto our Melchizedek, Jesus Christ.

"Frogster", in all love [1 Corinthians 12-13] the end of all things is at hand, therefore, let us all, who were once ignorant [simply, willingly/purposefully] of the ways of God, repent, and turn unto Him while His arms are still open to receive, for the time is coming, soon, where God will no longer strive with the hearts of rebellious men, and they will reap what they have sewn, and pay for what they, in unrighteousness, have kept back by fraud.

Acts 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Not only, do not reject to return the Holy Tithe, that Holy/sacred firstfruits, but, per your own present signature on the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, do not either rob God of that Tithe [that Holy 1/10th] of His Ten Commandments, which is designated Holy and Hallowed, do not reject the Holy Commandment delivered unto you:

2 Peter 2:21 - For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 - But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 - For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

SAAN · Oct 9, 2015

Acts24Fourteen said:
The Holy Tithe, the firstfruits, which belongs unto the LORD is not only present from the beginning in Genesis, but found throughout from Genesis to Malachi, and also from Matthew to Revelation.

The Holy Tithe is God's command/law for all, not a rule of any 'pastor' [except it be the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls, Jesus Christ], and it is especially for the faithful Church, as faithful stewards to return that which belongs unto God, rightly, otherwise, it is verily robbing God of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, of which the Tithe is a demonstration of, by faith.

Do not rob God "Frogster", as these 'frogs' [Revelation 16:13] do, for it is written:

1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Does any say it is not part of the New Covenant? As it is written, "... Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." [Matthew 22:29]

Read Malachi, more closely, for Malachi 3 is verily in the context of the New Covenant itself, centered in Jesus Christ:

Malachi 3:1 - Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Are any a child of Abraham, in/by faith? Let us test their boldness of claim by the word of God, whether it be genuine faith or lawless presumption:

[For I notice, that you so love 'Galatian's, but is it in Truth, according to the written word of God, let us test by it]

Galatians 3:29 - And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

John 8:39 - They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

As it is written:

Hebrews 7:1 - For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

Hebrews 7:2 - To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Hebrews 7:3 - Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 7:4 - Now consider how great this man [was], unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Hebrews 7:5 - And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:6 - But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 - And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Hebrews 7:8 - And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Hebrews 7:9 - And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Hebrews 7:10 - For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Consider "Frogster", most closely, for the word of God is clear, to not return the Holy Tithe, which symbolizes Jesus Christ and His righteousness, being the Holy firstfruits, is to rob God, of that which only He can accept, for He cannot accept our so-called 'righteousness', nor from/of our own spirit.

Abraham was faithful, as a father of the faithful, in returning the Holy Tithe, the firstfruits, to the type of Jesus Christ, Melchizedek [Melchisedec]. Thus, as faithful Abraham, the faithful children/seed so too also return it unto our Melchizedek, Jesus Christ.

"Frogster", in all love [1 Corinthians 12-13] the end of all things is at hand, therefore, let us all, who were once ignorant [willingly, or purposefully] of the ways of God, repent, and turn unto Him while His arms are still open to receive, for the time is coming, soon, where God will no longer strive with the hearts of rebellious men, and they will reap what they have sewn, and pay for what they, in unrighteousness, have kept back by fraud.

Acts 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Not only, do not reject to return the Holy Tithe, that Holy/sacred firstfruits, but, per your own present signature on the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, do not either rob God of that Tithe [that Holy 1/10th] of His Ten Commandments, which is designated Holy and Hallowed, do not reject the Holy Commandment delivered unto you:

2 Peter 2:21 - For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 - But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 - For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Can you list one verse in the entire bible that states you must give 10% of your income?
All examples of tithe was food and they had money back then too.

Acts24Fourteen · Oct 9, 2015

SAAN said:
Can you list one verse in the entire bible that states you must give 10% of your income?
All examples of tithe was food and they had money back then too.

Sure, please consider carefully and prayerfully:

Q. Is the Tithe merely of food [victuals], of crops, of cattle?

Genesis 14:11 KJV - And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way.

Genesis 14:12 KJV - And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

Genesis 14:16 KJV - And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

Genesis 14:17 KJV - And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that [were] with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which [is] the king's dale.

Genesis 14:18 KJV - And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God.

Genesis 14:19 KJV - And he [Melchizedek] blessed him [Abram, Abraham], and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Genesis 14:20 KJV - And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 14:21 KJV - And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

Abram [Abraham] would not take a thing of the “goods”. Thus this Tithe is surrounded by the very context that it is God that owns “all”, “possessor of Heaven and Earth” [Genesis 14:19,22], and thus the Tithe would include more than food [“victuals”], crops and cattle, and it would include “anything” [Genesis 14:23] of “increase” from God, even down to a “thread” and “shoelatchet”.

This is where the New Testament Pharisee had learned to return tithe down to the smallest item, but abused it [Luke 18:12 KJV - “... I give tithes of all that I possess.” ], because they missed the “weightier matters” [Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42] of the Law.

Genesis 14:22 KJV - And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

Genesis 14:23 KJV - That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Thus the Tithe was given before anything else, which remained, was distributed.

Genesis 14:24 KJV - Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

All of the spoils, “goods” [Genesis 14:16] [“increase”, including money, wealth, etc], among which is the “victuals” [Genesis 14:11], now belonged to the victor, and thus Abram [Abraham] was increased, and yet not desiring it, he still gave “tithes of all” of that which was his rightfully in victory to Melchizedek, the High Priest Of Peace and Righteousness. This is the typological history pointing to the Salvation in Christ Jesus.

We, as sinners, being taken captive by Satan, yet being delivered by a saviour, and not taken back to the previous condition, Sodom, but brought to Salem, with the Tithe/Firstfruits being presented, and so we are indebted [Romans 8:12, 15:27], etc.

Joshua himself also recognizes this:

1 Chronicles 26:27 KJV - Out of the spoils won in battles did they dedicate to maintain the house of the LORD.

Joshua recognizes that the Firstfruits of Ai belong unto the LORD:

Joshua 6:24 KJV - And they burnt the city with fire, and all that [was] therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.

Q. Or will we yet withhold that which belongs unto God as did Achan?

Joshua 7:21 KJV - When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they [are] hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.

Q. What was Achans “reward”, his “wages” [a type of the second death, a valley, stones and fire, and complete loss of all] for “covetousness”, to even secretly desire a “Babylonish garment” instead of the clothing of the Righteousness of Christ, and to keep back the “gold” and “silver” for himself rather than to have the joy, approval and approbation of God, His Father?

Q. What did this sin of selfishness cost and bring upon own kin and brethren?

Q. Was this the demonstration of Love to God and neighbour?

Q. Was it the Holy Spirit that led Achan to withhold that which rightfully belonged unto God, or was it from the unclean, greedy and sneaking spirit of Satan? Even as he thought to hide the items in the earth, in his tent, so too he sought to hide this sin from all eyes, buried in his earthen heart, in the midst of his fleshy tabernacle, but God reads the hearts of all, for there is nothing hid from Him, which shall not come abroad.

Joshua 7:22 KJV - So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran unto the tent; and, behold, [it was] hid in his tent, and the silver under it.

Joshua 7:23 KJV - And they took them out of the midst of the tent, and brought them unto Joshua, and unto all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD.

Joshua 7:24 KJV - And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them unto the valley of Achor.

Joshua 7:25 KJV - And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.

Joshua 7:26 KJV - And they raised over him a great heap of stones unto this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Wherefore the name of that place was called, The valley of Achor, unto this day.

Let us be careful to notice, that there are troublers in Israel, even tares among wheat, goats among sheep, foolish among wise, and yet the final judgment by a great and fiery hail of stones is coming, and so let us not be among that number. When our “Joshua”[Jesus] conquers our worldliness, and the strongholds of sin in our lives, let us not be as Achan, who continued to desire, covet and secretly obtain the Babylonish garments, the worldly wealth and ill-gotten gain, but rather let us openly, and in the light, honour the LORD with all the “increase”, even with all our substance.

Q. What is included in this “increase” [Deuteronomy 14:22,28, 26:12; Proverbs 3:9, etc], for is it only fruits, goods and cattle? Though the “increase” is often spoken of as coming from the “seed”, “field” and from the “flocks”, the underlying Hebrew word for “increase” is “tĕbuw'ah”, and is also used in the following passages [in red]. Take notice of the connecting and associated words therein:

Proverbs 3:14 KJV - For the merchandise of it [is] better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.

Proverbs 8:9 KJV - My fruit [is] better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

Proverbs 15:6 KJV - In the house of the righteous [is] much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.

Proverbs 16:8 KJV - Better [is] a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.

Job 31:12 KJV - For it [is] a fire [that] consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.

Ecclesiastes 5:10 KJV - He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this [is] also vanity.

Thus these Bible texts give us further definition of the word “increase”, and showing that it is not reduced to mere association with 'farming' or 'agriculture', even as Strong's Concordance agrees with, “"1) produce, product, revenue; a) product, yield, crops (of the earth usually); b)income, revenue; c) gain (of wisdom) (fig); d) product of lips (fig)" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H8393&t=KJV

Further, the word “revenue” is also defined Bibically as it is found in the following:

Ezra 4:13 KJV - Be it known now unto the king, that, if this city be builded, and the walls set up [again, then] will they not pay toll, tribute, and custom, and [so] thou shalt endamage the revenue of the kings.

Proverbs 8:19 KJV - My fruit [is] better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

Proverbs 15:6 KJV - In the house of the righteous [is] much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.

Proverbs 16:8 KJV - Better [is] a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.

Isaiah 23:3 KJV - And by great waters the seed of Sihor, the harvest of the river, [is] her revenue; and she is a mart of nations.

Jeremiah 12:13 KJV - They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, [but] shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD.

And “revenue” is classically defined as:

“REV'ENUE, noun [Latin revenio; re and venio, to come.]

1. In a general sense, the annual rents, profits, interest or issues of any species of property, real or personal, belonging to an individual or to the public. When used of individuals, it is equivalent to income. In modern usage, income is applied more generally to the rents and profits of individuals, and revenue to those of the state. In the latter case, revenue is

2. The annual produce of taxes, excise, customs, duties, rents, etc. which a nation or state collects and receives into the treasury for public use.

3. Return; reward; as a rich revenue of praise.

4. A fleshy lump on the head of a deer.” - http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Home?word=Revenue

We can now go back and look again at Leviticus 27:

Leviticus 27:25 KJV - And all thy estimations shall be according to the shekel of the sanctuary: twenty gerahs shall be the shekel.

Leviticus 27:26 KJV - Only the firstling of the beasts, which should be the LORD'S firstling, no man shall sanctify it; whether [it be] ox, or sheep: it [is] the LORD'S.

Leviticus 27:27 KJV - And if [it be] of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem [it] according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth [part] of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

Leviticus 27:33 KJV - He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Leviticus 27:30 KJV - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 KJV - And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 KJV - And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 KJV - He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

The “increase” of the “tithe”, if it be of the seed, field, fruit, flock, etc could be “redeemed” for “shekel” [Leviticus 27:25] of the Temple, even “of the money” [Leviticus 27:15,19] having “value” [Leviticus 27:8,12] of “estimation” [Leviticus 27:15,19,23,25,27], if a “fifth” part was added to it.

Truly the Firstfruits of Holy Tithe is full of “value”, a true “treasure”, in “gold” and “silver” even, since, in certain instances, “Silver” [Exodus 30:15; Leviticus 27:3] is the symbol of Redemption in Christ [2 Samuel 24:24; Zechariah 11:12,13; Matthew 26:15, 27:3,5,6,9; Acts 19:19] and “refining” [Zechariah 13:9; Proverbs 17:3, 27:21], and “Gold” the symbol of “tried” [Zechariah 13:9] and perfect Character of Christ fulfilling all the will of God [Genesis 24:22; Deuteronomy 10:4; Psalms 19:10, 119:127; Isaiah 13:12; Zechariah 13:9; Malachi 3:3; Matthew 22:40; 1 Corinthians 3:12; 2 Timothy 2:20; 1 Peter 1:7; Revelation 3:18], Christ Jesus being the true Treasure:

Psalms 135:4 KJV - For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself,andIsrael for his peculiar treasure.” Psalms 135:4

Isaiah 33:6 KJV - And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

1 Peter 1:18 KJV - Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;

1 Peter 1:19 KJV - But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Christ Jesus, the precious “kinsman” redeemer [Numbers 27:11; Ruth 1:1-4:22] and we are his “purchase”:

Exodus 15:16 KJV - Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.

Psalms 74:2 KJV - Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Psalms 78:54 KJV - And he brought them to the border of his sanctuary, even to this mountain, which his right hand had purchased.

Acts 20:28 KJV - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

I pray that this has been of true service.

SAAN · Oct 9, 2015

Acts24Fourteen said:
Sure, please consider carefully and prayerfully:

Q. Is the Tithe merely of food [victuals], of crops, of cattle?

Genesis 14:11 KJV - And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way.

Genesis 14:12 KJV - And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

Genesis 14:16 KJV - And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

Genesis 14:17 KJV - And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that [were] with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which [is] the king's dale.

Genesis 14:18 KJV - And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God.

Genesis 14:19 KJV - And he [Melchizedek] blessed him [Abram, Abraham], and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Genesis 14:20 KJV - And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 14:21 KJV - And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

Abram [Abraham] would not take a thing of the “goods”. Thus this Tithe is surrounded by the very context that it is God that owns “all”, “possessor of Heaven and Earth” [Genesis 14:19,22], and thus the Tithe would include more than food [“victuals”], crops and cattle, and it would include “anything” [Genesis 14:23] of “increase” from God, even down to a “thread” and “shoelatchet”.

This is where the New Testament Pharisee had learned to return tithe down to the smallest item, but abused it [Luke 18:12 KJV - “... I give tithes of all that I possess.” ], because they missed the “weightier matters” [Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42] of the Law.

Genesis 14:22 KJV - And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

Genesis 14:23 KJV - That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Thus the Tithe was given before anything else, which remained, was distributed.

Genesis 14:24 KJV - Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

All of the spoils, “goods” [Genesis 14:16] [“increase”, including money, wealth, etc], among which is the “victuals” [Genesis 14:11], now belonged to the victor, and thus Abram [Abraham] was increased, and yet not desiring it, he still gave “tithes of all” of that which was his rightfully in victory to Melchizedek, the High Priest Of Peace and Righteousness. This is the typological history pointing to the Salvation in Christ Jesus.

We, as sinners, being taken captive by Satan, yet being delivered by a saviour, and not taken back to the previous condition, Sodom, but brought to Salem, with the Tithe/Firstfruits being presented, and so we are indebted [Romans 8:12, 15:27], etc.

Joshua himself also recognizes this:

1 Chronicles 26:27 KJV - Out of the spoils won in battles did they dedicate to maintain the house of the LORD.

Joshua recognizes that the Firstfruits of Ai belong unto the LORD:

Joshua 6:24 KJV - And they burnt the city with fire, and all that [was] therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.

Q. Or will we yet withhold that which belongs unto God as did Achan?

Joshua 7:21 KJV - When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they [are] hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.

Q. What was Achans “reward”, his “wages” [a type of the second death, a valley, stones and fire, and complete loss of all] for “covetousness”, to even secretly desire a “Babylonish garment” instead of the clothing of the Righteousness of Christ, and to keep back the “gold” and “silver” for himself rather than to have the joy, approval and approbation of God, His Father?

Q. What did this sin of selfishness cost and bring upon own kin and brethren?

Q. Was this the demonstration of Love to God and neighbour?

Q. Was it the Holy Spirit that led Achan to withhold that which rightfully belonged unto God, or was it from the unclean, greedy and sneaking spirit of Satan? Even as he thought to hide the items in the earth, in his tent, so too he sought to hide this sin from all eyes, buried in his earthen heart, in the midst of his fleshy tabernacle, but God reads the hearts of all, for there is nothing hid from Him, which shall not come abroad.

Joshua 7:22 KJV - So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran unto the tent; and, behold, [it was] hid in his tent, and the silver under it.

Joshua 7:23 KJV - And they took them out of the midst of the tent, and brought them unto Joshua, and unto all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD.

Joshua 7:24 KJV - And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them unto the valley of Achor.

Joshua 7:25 KJV - And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.

Joshua 7:26 KJV - And they raised over him a great heap of stones unto this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Wherefore the name of that place was called, The valley of Achor, unto this day.

Let us be careful to notice, that there are troublers in Israel, even tares among wheat, goats among sheep, foolish among wise, and yet the final judgment by a great and fiery hail of stones is coming, and so let us not be among that number. When our “Joshua”[Jesus] conquers our worldliness, and the strongholds of sin in our lives, let us not be as Achan, who continued to desire, covet and secretly obtain the Babylonish garments, the worldly wealth and ill-gotten gain, but rather let us openly, and in the light, honour the LORD with all the “increase”, even with all our substance.

Q. What is included in this “increase” [Deuteronomy 14:22,28, 26:12; Proverbs 3:9, etc], for is it only fruits, goods and cattle? Though the “increase” is often spoken of as coming from the “seed”, “field” and from the “flocks”, the underlying Hebrew word for “increase” is “tĕbuw'ah”, and is also used in the following passages [in red]. Take notice of the connecting and associated words therein:

Proverbs 3:14 KJV - For the merchandise of it [is] better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.

Proverbs 8:9 KJV - My fruit [is] better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

Proverbs 15:6 KJV - In the house of the righteous [is] much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.

Proverbs 16:8 KJV - Better [is] a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.

Job 31:12 KJV - For it [is] a fire [that] consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.

Ecclesiastes 5:10 KJV - He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this [is] also vanity.

Thus these Bible texts give us further definition of the word “increase”, and showing that it is not reduced to mere association with 'farming' or 'agriculture', even as Strong's Concordance agrees with, “"1) produce, product, revenue; a) product, yield, crops (of the earth usually); b)income, revenue; c) gain (of wisdom) (fig); d) product of lips (fig)" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H8393&t=KJV

Further, the word “revenue” is also defined Bibically as it is found in the following:

Ezra 4:13 KJV - Be it known now unto the king, that, if this city be builded, and the walls set up [again, then] will they not pay toll, tribute, and custom, and [so] thou shalt endamage the revenue of the kings.

Proverbs 8:19 KJV - My fruit [is] better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

Proverbs 15:6 KJV - In the house of the righteous [is] much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.

Proverbs 16:8 KJV - Better [is] a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.

Isaiah 23:3 KJV - And by great waters the seed of Sihor, the harvest of the river, [is] her revenue; and she is a mart of nations.

Jeremiah 12:13 KJV - They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, [but] shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD.

And “revenue” is classically defined as:

“REV'ENUE, noun [Latin revenio; re and venio, to come.]

1. In a general sense, the annual rents, profits, interest or issues of any species of property, real or personal, belonging to an individual or to the public. When used of individuals, it is equivalent to income. In modern usage, income is applied more generally to the rents and profits of individuals, and revenue to those of the state. In the latter case, revenue is

2. The annual produce of taxes, excise, customs, duties, rents, etc. which a nation or state collects and receives into the treasury for public use.

3. Return; reward; as a rich revenue of praise.

4. A fleshy lump on the head of a deer.” - http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Home?word=Revenue

We can now go back and look again at Leviticus 27:

Leviticus 27:25 KJV - And all thy estimations shall be according to the shekel of the sanctuary: twenty gerahs shall be the shekel.

Leviticus 27:26 KJV - Only the firstling of the beasts, which should be the LORD'S firstling, no man shall sanctify it; whether [it be] ox, or sheep: it [is] the LORD'S.

Leviticus 27:27 KJV - And if [it be] of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem [it] according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth [part] of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

Leviticus 27:33 KJV - He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Leviticus 27:30 KJV - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 KJV - And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 KJV - And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 KJV - He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

The “increase” of the “tithe”, if it be of the seed, field, fruit, flock, etc could be “redeemed” for “shekel” [Leviticus 27:25] of the Temple, even “of the money” [Leviticus 27:15,19] having “value” [Leviticus 27:8,12] of “estimation” [Leviticus 27:15,19,23,25,27], if a “fifth” part was added to it.

Truly the Firstfruits of Holy Tithe is full of “value”, a true “treasure”, in “gold” and “silver” even, since, in certain instances, “Silver” [Exodus 30:15; Leviticus 27:3] is the symbol of Redemption in Christ [2 Samuel 24:24; Zechariah 11:12,13; Matthew 26:15, 27:3,5,6,9; Acts 19:19] and “refining” [Zechariah 13:9; Proverbs 17:3, 27:21], and “Gold” the symbol of “tried” [Zechariah 13:9] and perfect Character of Christ fulfilling all the will of God [Genesis 24:22; Deuteronomy 10:4; Psalms 19:10, 119:127; Isaiah 13:12; Zechariah 13:9; Malachi 3:3; Matthew 22:40; 1 Corinthians 3:12; 2 Timothy 2:20; 1 Peter 1:7; Revelation 3:18], Christ Jesus being the true Treasure:

Psalms 135:4 KJV - For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself,andIsrael for his peculiar treasure.” Psalms 135:4

Isaiah 33:6 KJV - And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

1 Peter 1:18 KJV - Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;

1 Peter 1:19 KJV - But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Christ Jesus, the precious “kinsman” redeemer [Numbers 27:11; Ruth 1:1-4:22] and we are his “purchase”:

Exodus 15:16 KJV - Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.

Psalms 74:2 KJV - Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Psalms 78:54 KJV - And he brought them to the border of his sanctuary, even to this mountain, which his right hand had purchased.

Acts 20:28 KJV - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

I pray that this has been of true service.

This here explains tithing principles and what exactly a tithe is.
Deuteronomy 14:22-28 (NKJV)
Tithing Principles
22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before theLord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.

28 “At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates.

I have no problems with free will offerings to the church or to help the needy, because that is what a free will offering from the heart of a cheerful giver is, but we ARE NOT commanded to tithe 10% of our income or we are robbing God. That is a man made doctrine.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 9, 2015

Sure wouldn't want to offend any of those lovely Pharisees

Matthew 17:24-27

The Temple Tax

24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”
25 “Yes, he does,” he replied.
When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own children or from others?”
26 “From others,” Peter answered.
“Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him. 27 “But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

Malachi explains how the people were giving less than their best to God. I don't believe that monetary covers the bases.

Acts24Fourteen · Oct 9, 2015

SAAN said:
This here explains tithing principles and what exactly a tithe is.
Deuteronomy 14:22-28 (NKJV)
Tithing Principles
22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before theLord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.

28 “At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates.

I have no problems with free will offerings to the church or to help the needy, because that is what a free will offering from the heart of a cheerful giver is, but we ARE NOT commanded to tithe 10% of our income or we are robbing God. That is a man made doctrine.

Malachi 3:1,8, New Covenant, in Christ Jesus, "tithe" and [meaning in addition to, also, moreover, etc] "offerings". It is not 'either/or', but 'both/and'.

A person may 'offer' whatever amount they think to choose, but if they refuse to return the Holy firstfruits [first] [for notice it is "tithe" first and then "offering"] and "devour" it for their own use, are in serious trouble with the Wonderful Numberer Himself, who will take "account" of his servants and their entrusted "talents" [Matthew 18:21-35], for they have not truly tithed, nor offered according to the word, but their own ways, and it is unacceptable to God. Judgment, going on now [Revelation 14:6-7, etc], is about to pass from the dead to the living. Even if those who knowingly refused to return the Holy Tithe, 'offered' all they had, it is worthless, for it is not according to God's command. We can only offer what God accepts, the righteousness of Christ Jesus, for Christ Jesus Himself tithed and offered, thus Jesus said:

Matthew 23:23 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 11:42 - But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Therefore, are we all warned of Scripture, not to devour that which is Holy, and belongs unto God:

Proverbs 20:25 - [It is] a snare to the man [who] devoureth [that which is] holy, and after vows to make enquiry.

Leviticus 27:30 - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

In so doing they devour Jesus Christ:

Hosea 11:1 - When Israel [was] a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Matthew 2:13 - And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Matthew 2:14 - When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Matthew 2:15 - And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Jeremiah 2:3 - Israel [was] holiness unto the LORD, [and] the firstfruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them, saith the LORD.

1 Corinthians 15:23 - But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Romans 11:16 - For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.

Acts 4:27 - For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 4:30 - By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Luke 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Presently, you seem to have misunderstanding of the Deuteronomy text, the differing tithes, even of the money part therein. and of its importance in the plan of redemption.

Q. The Tithe is the increase, and firstfruits of the Seed, but why?

Deuteronomy 14:22 - Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Galatians 3:16 - Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Notice again:

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man [Heb. “'adam”, mankind] rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

The “reward” of the faithful labouring minister of the Everlasting Gospel is found in the Scripture:

1 Timothy 5:17 KJV - Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Timothy 5:18 KJV - For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer [is] worthy of his reward.

Q. Who is the labourer, what are they to labour for and who also is their hire?

In these passages, we find the faithful servant of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, quoting from Moses in Deuteronomy 25:4, “Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out [the corn].” and from Jesus in Luke 10:7, “And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.”

Those who preach the Everlasting Gospel, are to live of that Gospel, and so Paul even speaks to this from several examples:

1 Corinthians 9:1 KJV - Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Thus we see that “Jesus Christ our Lord” is the one who hires, and the Apostle Paul, as a faithful and wise steward and servant, was one who laboured [1 Corinthians 3:8,14] for the Master, and those he had ministered to out in the “field”, are called “my work in the Lord”.

1 Corinthians 9:2 KJV - If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

The Holy Spirit explains through Paul:

1 Corinthians 9:3 KJV - Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,

1 Corinthians 9:4 KJV - Have we not power to eat and to drink?

[See also Luke 10:8 KJV - “And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:”

2 Thessalonians 3:8 KJV - Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

2 Thessalonians 3:9 KJV - Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 KJV - For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Please notice the argumentation, and from where at least eight points of argument are drawn for the providence of those labourers who are preaching the Everlasting Gospel.]

1 Corinthians 9:5 KJV - Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

1 Corinthians 9:6 KJV - Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

[See also, Acts 6:2 KJV - "Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples [unto them], and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables."]

[Argumentation 1] 1 Corinthians 9:7 KJV - “Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? ...”

[Argumentation 2] “... who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? ...”

[Argumentation 3] “... or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?”

[Argumentation 4] 1 Corinthians 9:8 KJV - Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

1 Corinthians 9:9 KJV - For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

[See also the same in 1 Timothy 5:17-18]

[Argumentation 5] 1 Corinthians 9:10 KJV - Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

[Argumentation 6] 1 Corinthians 9:11 KJV - If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

[Argumentation 7] 1 Corinthians 9:12 KJV - If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

[Argumentation 8] 1 Corinthians 9:13 KJV - Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

[Conclusion] 1 Corinthians 9:14 KJV - Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Herein Paul was being more charitable to those he preached to, not claiming the right, and yet working among them, even supporting himself through his tent-making trade [Acts 18:3], though the right was his, being granted unto him by the testimony of Jesus, by the written word in the Law/Torah, for though the Tithe was to assist in his spreading the Everlasting Gospel as it was for every such minister, he would not demand it, but accepted it when pressed, as he says, “if against my will”, so that none would be offended [Romans 14:7,8,13], nor that he “abuse” his “power in the Gospel”:

1 Corinthians 9:15 KJV - But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for [it were] better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

1 Corinthians 9:16 KJV - For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV - For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

1 Corinthians 9:18 KJV - What is my reward then? [Verily] that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

Though the Tithe is also for the faithful minister of the Everlasting Gospel to live of, it is not our real “reward”, for the actual “reward” is Christ Jesus Himself [Numbers 18:20; Ezekiel 44:28; Hebrews 11:26].

Q. What is the 'reward' of those which hoard to themselves, and keep back of that which belongs unto God for His service, and/or faithlessly wastes the Lord's talents?

James 5:1 KJV - Go to now, [ye] rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon [you].

James 5:2 KJV - Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.

James 5:3 KJV - Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

James 5:4 KJV - Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

James 5:5 KJV - Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

James 5:6 KJV - Ye have condemned [and] killed the just; [and] he doth not resist you.

James 5:7 KJV - Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

While the general person is responsible before God, how much more are those in positions and offices of responsibility within the very Body of Christ, even those at the highest levels. What will happen if they keep back even the “hire” of those God hath called to be “labourers” in His “field” and misappropriate it for selfish schemes? The Holy Tithe and so also offerings, etc are to be for the upbuilding of the Body of Christ, and God knows that there are many a “labourer” which has gone many a day without that which was due unto them and they and the work of God, suffered, whether small or great, because of covetousness, and souls were lost, due to greed and love of/for this world, more than God and their fellows were loved, and weeping upon earth and Heaven are recorded in the Books, as are the deeds of those “rich” men [Revelation 3:17]. Rich in this worlds goods, but not towards God, is no real richness, but fleeting vanity, even soon to be dust in the mouth, and cold ashes upon the tongue. The day is coming, even very soon, in which the personal account of each of us is to be made before God, even Jesus Christ, for our talents, and soon, very soon [Revelation 3:10], the judgment and examination is to pass from the [professed] dead to the [professing] living.

Matthew 18:23 KJV - Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

Therefore, let us be faithful, and give Glory unto God, and not as the wicked one who tried to take all the Glory of God unto himself:

Jonah 2:9 KJV - But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

Matthew 22:21 - “Render therefore ... unto God the things that are God's.”

Woe unto to them which keep back that which is Holy unto God, robbing Him in His very presence [Exodus 33:14; Matthew 28:20; Malachi 3:6], and hinder the spread of the Gospel, because of their greed, for they withhold that which is God's from God, and effectively say to God, I can manage God's own better, it is safer with me than in God's hands, even as Judas who held the bag.

bbbbbbb · Oct 9, 2015

One day last April while I was teaching a Bible class in China one girl began going on about the need to tithe. The girl next to her began disagreeing with her and finally told her that God doesn't own just 10% of her money, but he own everything, completely and entirely of her. It would be really lovely if God only expected my 10% and I was free to engage the remainder any way my little heart desired, wouldn't it?

Strong in Him · Oct 10, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
One day last April while I was teaching a Bible class in China one girl began going on about the need to tithe. The girl next to her began disagreeing with her and finally told her that God doesn't own just 10% of her money, but he own everything, completely and entirely of her. It would be really lovely if God only expected my 10% and I was free to engage the remainder any way my little heart desired, wouldn't it?

That's just what the OP is about though; if we give 10% to God he regards it as if we have given him 100%. So by that reasoning, we can give 10%, spend the remainder exactly as we choose and God will treat it as if we have give it ALL to him.

I don't believe the NT teaches tithing as a command, and I certainly don't believe this "principle".

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 10, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
One day last April while I was teaching a Bible class in China one girl began going on about the need to tithe. The girl next to her began disagreeing with her and finally told her that God doesn't own just 10% of her money, but he own everything, completely and entirely of her. It would be really lovely if God only expected my 10% and I was free to engage the remainder any way my little heart desired, wouldn't it?

Giving 10% of your time to prayerfully spending time with God still doesn't mean that your free to engage yourself in any way your little heart desires the other 21 and !/2 hrs of the day either ... jus sayin

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 10, 2015

Strong in Him said:
That's just what the OP is about though; if we give 10% to God he regards it as if we have given him 100%. So by that reasoning, we can give 10%, spend the remainder exactly as we choose and God will treat it as if we have give it ALL to him.

I don't believe the NT teaches tithing as a command, and I certainly don't believe this "principle".

~Cassia~ said:
Giving 10% of your time to prayerfully spending time with God still doesn't mean that your free to engage yourself in any way your little heart desires the other 21 and !/2 hrs of the day either ... jus sayin

I think this is where the principle of the OP does hold true. What we give to God of that which belongs to God, as He increases our faith, then all is consecrated to Him.

SAAN · Oct 10, 2015

Acts24Fourteen said:
Malachi 3:1,8, New Covenant, in Christ Jesus, "tithe" and [meaning in addition to, also, moreover, etc] "offerings". It is not 'either/or', but 'both/and'.

A person may 'offer' whatever amount they think to choose, but if they refuse to return the Holy firstfruits [first] [for notice it is "tithe" first and then "offering"] and "devour" it for their own use, are in serious trouble with the Wonderful Numberer Himself, who will take "account" of his servants and their entrusted "talents" [Matthew 18:21-35], for they have not truly tithed, nor offered according to the word, but their own ways, and it is unacceptable to God. Judgment, going on now [Revelation 14:6-7, etc], is about to pass from the dead to the living. Even if those who knowingly refused to return the Holy Tithe, 'offered' all they had, it is worthless, for it is not according to God's command. We can only offer what God accepts, the righteousness of Christ Jesus, for Christ Jesus Himself tithed and offered, thus Jesus said:

Matthew 23:23 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 11:42 - But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Therefore, are we all warned of Scripture, not to devour that which is Holy, and belongs unto God:

Proverbs 20:25 - [It is] a snare to the man [who] devoureth [that which is] holy, and after vows to make enquiry.

Leviticus 27:30 - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

In so doing they devour Jesus Christ:

Hosea 11:1 - When Israel [was] a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Matthew 2:13 - And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Matthew 2:14 - When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Matthew 2:15 - And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Jeremiah 2:3 - Israel [was] holiness unto the LORD, [and] the firstfruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them, saith the LORD.

1 Corinthians 15:23 - But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Romans 11:16 - For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.

Acts 4:27 - For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 4:30 - By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Luke 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Presently, you seem to have misunderstanding of the Deuteronomy text, the differing tithes, even of the money part therein. and of its importance in the plan of redemption.

Q. The Tithe is the increase, and firstfruits of the Seed, but why?

Deuteronomy 14:22 - Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Galatians 3:16 - Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Notice again:

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man [Heb. “'adam”, mankind] rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

The “reward” of the faithful labouring minister of the Everlasting Gospel is found in the Scripture:

1 Timothy 5:17 KJV - Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Timothy 5:18 KJV - For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer [is] worthy of his reward.

Q. Who is the labourer, what are they to labour for and who also is their hire?

In these passages, we find the faithful servant of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, quoting from Moses in Deuteronomy 25:4, “Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out [the corn].” and from Jesus in Luke 10:7, “And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.”

Those who preach the Everlasting Gospel, are to live of that Gospel, and so Paul even speaks to this from several examples:

1 Corinthians 9:1 KJV - Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Thus we see that “Jesus Christ our Lord” is the one who hires, and the Apostle Paul, as a faithful and wise steward and servant, was one who laboured [1 Corinthians 3:8,14] for the Master, and those he had ministered to out in the “field”, are called “my work in the Lord”.

1 Corinthians 9:2 KJV - If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

The Holy Spirit explains through Paul:

1 Corinthians 9:3 KJV - Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,

1 Corinthians 9:4 KJV - Have we not power to eat and to drink?

[See also Luke 10:8 KJV - “And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:”

2 Thessalonians 3:8 KJV - Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

2 Thessalonians 3:9 KJV - Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 KJV - For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Please notice the argumentation, and from where at least eight points of argument are drawn for the providence of those labourers who are preaching the Everlasting Gospel.]

1 Corinthians 9:5 KJV - Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

1 Corinthians 9:6 KJV - Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

[See also, Acts 6:2 KJV - "Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples [unto them], and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables."]

[Argumentation 1] 1 Corinthians 9:7 KJV - “Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? ...”

[Argumentation 2] “... who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? ...”

[Argumentation 3] “... or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?”

[Argumentation 4] 1 Corinthians 9:8 KJV - Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

1 Corinthians 9:9 KJV - For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

[See also the same in 1 Timothy 5:17-18]

[Argumentation 5] 1 Corinthians 9:10 KJV - Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

[Argumentation 6] 1 Corinthians 9:11 KJV - If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

[Argumentation 7] 1 Corinthians 9:12 KJV - If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

[Argumentation 8] 1 Corinthians 9:13 KJV - Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

[Conclusion] 1 Corinthians 9:14 KJV - Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Herein Paul was being more charitable to those he preached to, not claiming the right, and yet working among them, even supporting himself through his tent-making trade [Acts 18:3], though the right was his, being granted unto him by the testimony of Jesus, by the written word in the Law/Torah, for though the Tithe was to assist in his spreading the Everlasting Gospel as it was for every such minister, he would not demand it, but accepted it when pressed, as he says, “if against my will”, so that none would be offended [Romans 14:7,8,13], nor that he “abuse” his “power in the Gospel”:

1 Corinthians 9:15 KJV - But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for [it were] better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

1 Corinthians 9:16 KJV - For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV - For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

1 Corinthians 9:18 KJV - What is my reward then? [Verily] that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

Though the Tithe is also for the faithful minister of the Everlasting Gospel to live of, it is not our real “reward”, for the actual “reward” is Christ Jesus Himself [Numbers 18:20; Ezekiel 44:28; Hebrews 11:26].

Q. What is the 'reward' of those which hoard to themselves, and keep back of that which belongs unto God for His service, and/or faithlessly wastes the Lord's talents?

James 5:1 KJV - Go to now, [ye] rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon [you].

James 5:2 KJV - Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.

James 5:3 KJV - Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

James 5:4 KJV - Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

James 5:5 KJV - Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

James 5:6 KJV - Ye have condemned [and] killed the just; [and] he doth not resist you.

James 5:7 KJV - Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

While the general person is responsible before God, how much more are those in positions and offices of responsibility within the very Body of Christ, even those at the highest levels. What will happen if they keep back even the “hire” of those God hath called to be “labourers” in His “field” and misappropriate it for selfish schemes? The Holy Tithe and so also offerings, etc are to be for the upbuilding of the Body of Christ, and God knows that there are many a “labourer” which has gone many a day without that which was due unto them and they and the work of God, suffered, whether small or great, because of covetousness, and souls were lost, due to greed and love of/for this world, more than God and their fellows were loved, and weeping upon earth and Heaven are recorded in the Books, as are the deeds of those “rich” men [Revelation 3:17]. Rich in this worlds goods, but not towards God, is no real richness, but fleeting vanity, even soon to be dust in the mouth, and cold ashes upon the tongue. The day is coming, even very soon, in which the personal account of each of us is to be made before God, even Jesus Christ, for our talents, and soon, very soon [Revelation 3:10], the judgment and examination is to pass from the [professed] dead to the [professing] living.

Matthew 18:23 KJV - Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

Therefore, let us be faithful, and give Glory unto God, and not as the wicked one who tried to take all the Glory of God unto himself:

Jonah 2:9 KJV - But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

Matthew 22:21 - “Render therefore ... unto God the things that are God's.”

Woe unto to them which keep back that which is Holy unto God, robbing Him in His very presence [Exodus 33:14; Matthew 28:20; Malachi 3:6], and hinder the spread of the Gospel, because of their greed, for they withhold that which is God's from God, and effectively say to God, I can manage God's own better, it is safer with me than in God's hands, even as Judas who held the bag.

In these 2 verses, they were still under the law, so they were expected to tithe and if you look at the verses carefully you will see its food once again.

Matthew 23:23 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 11:42 - But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And lets look at the context Mal 3:8 again.

Malachi 3:8
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

- Mal 1 explains how they robbed God by offering lame and beaten up animals that they wouldnt even offer their governor, but it doesnt say because they were not giving 10% of their income.
Malachi 1:6-8
6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible.

8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts.

-Deut 17:1 is the command of God they were breaking Mal 1:6-8 and Mal 3:8 points out how they were robbing God.
Deuteronomy 17:1 (NKJV)
17 “You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God a bull or sheep which has any blemish or defect, for that is an abomination to the Lord your God.

And the final example will be Paul

1 Corinthians 16:2 (NKJV)
2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

-Notice how Paul never said to set aside a tithe or a tenth of their income so he may pick it up. This is a prime example of a free will offering and that there is NO biblical commandment to tithe 10% of your income and that you are robbing God if you dont. That is a man made doctrine, just like the man made doctrine of net vs gross tithing.

I still give 10% of my actual pay check as that is what I grew up being taught, even though I know the truth about what a tithe is now, but I still see it as a free will offering that i give every 2 weeks. Even with that, their is debates of if you get $1600 and your check is $1300, you should be giving $160 instead of $130 and I see it as I only physically have $1300, not $1600.

Strong in Him · Oct 10, 2015

~Cassia~ said:
I think this is where the principle of the OP does hold true. What we give to God of that which belongs to God, as He increases our faith, then all is consecrated to Him.

Everything we have, and are, comes from God. But the OP said that if we give 10% of our money to God, he regards it as if we have given him 100%. That's what I don't agree with; give God 10% and if you spend the rest on booze, drugs, wild parties or down at the betting shop, no matter, because in God's eyes it will be as if you have given 100% so you might as well blow it on what you want.
Jesus didn't commend the Pharisees for giving a small part of their great wealth and say, "that's great; God considers that you have given it all. He commended a widow for giving all she had.

ONE FOR ALL, ALL FOR ONE—UNDERSTANDING THE TITHING PRINCIPLE

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