Boy Trained to Handle Hunting Rifle by Father Now in Trouble. Father Not

Crowns&Laurels said:

There was a kid who took a car out joyriding. Would you have blamed his guardian if he had steam rolled somebody?

Of course not, because a car isn't a gun, and the only reason you're even trying to have some loaded opinion on the matter is because it's gun related.

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If the kid was 13, yes, yes I would, because that meant he wasn't licensed, and the parents were negligent.

Vylo said:

If the kid was 13, yes, yes I would, because that meant he wasn't licensed, and the parents were negligent.

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So.. charge the guardian on account of them not stashing their car keys. How reasonable, because all parents know to stash their car keys at all times from children..

And by the way, the kid was 7 years old. It's pretty impressive actually.

Crowns&Laurels said:

There was a kid who took a car out joyriding. Would you have blamed his guardian if he had steam rolled somebody?

Of course not, because a car isn't a gun, and the only reason you're even trying to have some loaded opinion on the matter is because it's gun related.

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Guns are designed to kill other people. Cars are meant to get you to the store and work. Not the same thing.

Loudmouth said:

Guns are designed to kill other people. Cars are meant to get you to the store and work. Not the same thing.

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Guns are meant as a means of self-defense, to hunt, restore order, and resist tyranny. When you say 'designed to kill people', you are just trying to slander them as evil instruments of death.

You can't charge a person with murder because they left their gun safe unlocked. You can't justify taking away guns because people leave their gun safe unlocked either.
The fact of the matter is that if anyone thought such an incident would occur, they would have kept them away. You nor anyone has the right to judge on such things.

I'm not an American, and I am mystified, by the gun culture there. Is there not a law, that gun owners, must be responsible, in how they store their guns? Parents can leave their guns, around the house, where young children can access them? That is legal?

Blue Wren said:

I'm not an American, and I am mystified, by the gun culture there. Is there not a law, that gun owners, must be responsible, in how they store their guns? Parents can leave their guns, around the house, where young children can access them? That is legal?

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Depends on local and state law and on how young the child is. By the time I was this kid's age, I had my own .22 rifle. I used to spend all day out in the woods, though that may not have been until I was 12. The caveat, of course, is that Daddy only let me take three bullets. And he counted the shots.

Crowns&Laurels said:

Guns are meant as a means of self-defense, to hunt, restore order, and resist tyranny.

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Guns are designed to kill. Period. A car is not. They are not comparable.

When you say 'designed to kill people', you are just trying to slander them as evil instruments of death.

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I am describing what they are. Do you think guns were designed to weed your garden or mow your lawn? There is nothing inherently evil about something that is designed to kill. However, I see no reason why we shouldn't expect someone to be responsible gun owners, and that includes storing their guns in a safe manner.

You can't charge a person with murder because they left their gun safe unlocked.

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Actually, DC v. Heller did settle that question very recently. It is unconstitutional to require storage of firearms in a way that would prevent quick access when needed. However, we do need to hold gun owners responsible when they have been negligent.

You can't justify taking away guns because people leave their gun safe unlocked either.
The fact of the matter is that if anyone thought such an incident would occur, they would have kept them away. You nor anyone has the right to judge on such things.

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What you are describing is manslaughter, and people are convicted of manslaughter.

"the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder."
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=manslaughter

Blue Wren said:

I'm not an American, and I am mystified, by the gun culture there. Is there not a law, that gun owners, must be responsible, in how they store their guns? Parents can leave their guns, around the house, where young children can access them? That is legal?

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Let me help you understand.

There isn't a gun violence problem in America (easily demonstrable). What you read and hear is carefully crafted hysteria that distorts what is actually happening into a national tragedy by (mostly) well-meaning but ill-informed citizens and a manipulative self-serving media.

OldWiseGuy said:

Let me help you understand.

There isn't a gun violence problem in America (easily demonstrable). What you read and hear is carefully crafted hysteria that distorts what is actually happening into a national tragedy by (mostly) well-meaning but ill-informed citizens and a manipulative self-serving media.

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The "carefully" crafted hysteria says that a dude in Oregon killed 9 people using firearms. What really happened is that a dude in Oregon killed 9 people using firearms.

1. The father did not properly secure the firearm, true. However,

2. According to what the article implies, this was a malicious act, not an accident. This was not a child picking up a gun and accidentally shooting someone. I wonder if he would have looked for some other weapon if he did not have access to the gun?

What a horrible incident.

Blue Wren said:

I'm not an American, and I am mystified, by the gun culture there. Is there not a law, that gun owners, must be responsible, in how they store their guns? Parents can leave their guns, around the house, where young children can access them? That is legal?

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It depends on the state. Some require the firearm be locked in one safe while the ammo in another, but the NRA and the gun people fight such laws tooth and nail, claiming "a locked gun, is a useless gun". The 'ol adage in the Bible Belt is, "you don't childproof your guns. You gunproof your children". It's sad. I wish our nation didn't have such a fixation with guns and violence.

How can people defend the parents in this situation?

You cannot leave a firearm with ammunition in a place where a child can reach it unsupervised. This is how incidents like this happen.

I would not leave my pen knife in the company of a child unsupervised, let alone a gun.

Crowns&Laurels said:

Guns are meant as a means of self-defense, to hunt, restore order, and resist tyranny. When you say 'designed to kill people', you are just trying to slander them as evil instruments of death.

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There is no slander.

Guns are designed to kill.

Do you disagree?

The parents in this situation should be locked up and never allowed to own firearms again.

Blue Wren said:

I'm not an American, and I am mystified, by the gun culture there. Is there not a law, that gun owners, must be responsible, in how they store their guns? Parents can leave their guns, around the house, where young children can access them? That is legal?

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Virtually all states have laws under which the father could be prosecuted. The general term is attractive nuisance. The classic example is an unfenced swimming pool. Basically something attractive and dangerous.

The question here would be just what the kid had to do to get to the gun. It would come down to details. Loaded and on the coffee table is a slam dunk in one direction, in a gun safe would be close to a slam dunk in the other. (Since there would not even be the start of a case if the kid did not get the gun one would have to ask how the kid got in to the safe, dad giving him the combination would not be a good situation for dad).

TheQuietRiot said:

The parents in this situation should be locked up and never allowed to own firearms again.

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That's a mighty opinion you have right there. I doubt even the victims parents feel the same way.

Welcome to the first time in history where people are against self defense. I see no martyrs, though.

Crowns&Laurels said:

That's a mighty opinion you have right there. I doubt even the victims parents feel the same way.

Welcome to the first time in history where people are against self defense. I see no martyrs, though.

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Mother leaves gallon of drain cleaner on the coffee table with no lid on it. Child drinks it and dies. People say the mother should be arrested and put in jail. Other people say that those people calling for her arrest are against free flowing drains.

Who are the crazy ones?

Loudmouth said:

Mother leaves gallon of drain cleaner on the coffee table with no lid on it. Child drinks it and dies. People say the mother should be arrested and put in jail. Other people say that those people calling for her arrest are against free flowing drains.

Who are the crazy ones?

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..the one's saying she should be arrested and put in jail.

Negligence on this scale are not arrest-able offenses, because they are not crimes. A crime in negligence is defined as negligence in the process of a crime. Like killing somebody while drinking and driving.
If, for example, the woman was on drugs during the time, then it would be a crime.

Crowns&Laurels said:

That's a mighty opinion you have right there. I doubt even the victims parents feel the same way.

Welcome to the first time in history where people are against self defense. I see no martyrs, though.

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What does a child shooting another child have to do with self defence?

The parents have demonstrated quite clearly that they are not responsible gun owners. If you cannot be responsible with a deadly weapon and let it fall loaded and ready to kill into the hands of a child you should never be allowed to own one again because you are a danger to the rest of society.