The high price of freedom.

OH heck on second thought since about 90% +of men will use or have or abuse and disease their peckers and lets just take them all from all men right at birth and the 2 real sources of the problem . that will stop a lot of death and disease and abuse and save how many billions of lives , and horrid things done intentionally to others ? by those who are confused and crazy and out of control , control freaks and militant and aggressive. so how many lives will that alone save? no one may even ever needs guns again now that I think about it.

OldWiseGuy said:

Our expectations are greater, as well as our disappointments, which may account for much of the violence.

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Oh, fair enough. Non Americans just don't have the same emotional range, I guess.

dgiharris said:

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.

However, I'm a big fan of meeting in the middle.

If we have the same requirements for gun ownership as we do car ownership, we'd solve a lot of problems related to gun issues.

Require Registration, require ballistics registration of each gun so you can match a bullet with a gun in a national database, require licensing to own a gun (i.e. you have to pass a test), require screening (background checks and medical checks mental health check)...

The real culprit here isn't so much the gun, but the people who wield them. The root cause of the mass shooting problems isn't the gun but rather mentally unstable people. We need to focus on the root cause meaning we need to focus on how we identify and treat the mentally ill in this country.

It is normal to periodically get a physical, however, why isn't it normal to get a periodic mental health screening?
The vast majority of the populace has never had a real in-depth mental health screening. Mental health is one of those things that everyone just assumes they know all about.

What we really need as a nation is to rethink mental health and to take concrete steps to ensure a mentally healthy populace. Those who are not mentally healthy should not be allowed to own guns. And illegal guns should be regarded the same way that drugs are. Which brings us back to registration.

Registration and screening is only a partial solution. The real solution is to take steps to ensure a mentally healthy populace and identify those who are not mentally stable and ensure they aren't allowed to own guns.

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Problem with that is that I don't consider the predatory crony capitalists who have captured our government by incorporation, are mentally or financial healthy enough to trust with a monopoly on violence.
The deceit and coercion that has been used to set up and maintain this victory of the UCC over the Constitution and common law naturally breeds violence. And when the lying gov/"public" schools have dumbed these shooters down enough not to know who to aim at, you get public massacre.

Join the Torch & Pitchfork Party.

Armoured said:

Oh, fair enough. Non Americans just don't have the same emotional range, I guess.

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Canadians, especially.

OldWiseGuy said:

If you really want to see a horrible mess get ahold of official photo's from vehicle accidents. Years ago such presentations were shown to high school kids who were about to get their driving licenses. In the Army we were shown these horrible images before every holiday furlough. The thoughtlessness that causes these horrific deaths is as criminal as a mass shooting. However, we just don't see it the same way. We get into our cars and drive away as if nothing had happened.

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right! a car in the hands of a 10 -20 % drunks out of millions of cars is lot of lives .. and 90% of the peckers in the hands of the abuser and aggression of 1/4 to 1/2 the population who creates nothing but death and misery and disease with them ,
or .01 % out of millions of guns used safely and responsibly , I say lop off the the trinity of evil in the world and cars next !

ok so in IRL I like my hubby's trinity and I think men should be given the chance and right to use theirs rightly in the eyes of God , though odds are against them figuring it out with out them doing some kind of abuse and filth first , especially since they are not taught how too or why too . and why Jesus made sure we all understood forgiveness first and foremost before force . not that force won't be used at some point.
but
if lives is really the issue here like the lefty are pretending , then I say take the real trinity of evil in this world and then we sure won't need the guns as much. .

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Or we can stop the freedom nonsense, make it illegal to own guns.

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We should also make driving illegal because some idiots can't do it responsibly and even act criminally and put people's lives in danger with their cars. Sound like a good idea?

Chicken Little said:

OH heck on second thought since about 90% +of men will use or have or abuse and disease their peckers and lets just take them all from all men right at birth and the 2 real sources of the problem . that will stop a lot of death and disease and abuse and save how many billions of lives , and horrid things done intentionally to others ? by those who are confused and crazy and out of control , control freaks and militant and aggressive. so how many lives will that alone save? no one may even ever needs guns again now that I think about it.

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I find it quite interesting that you compare owning a gun to having a "pecker". Talk about insecure gun owners....

GoldenBoy89 said:

I find it quite interesting that you compare owning a gun to having a "pecker". Talk about insecure gun owners....

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no I was saying a filthy pecker is way more dangerous and deadly on the misery index in the hands of a sinner than a gun is in the hands of a sinner as long as someone can shoot back .

Chicken Little said:

no I was saying a filthy pecker is way more dangerous and deadly in the hands of a sinner than a gun is as long as someone can shot back .

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Fair enough.

How about gun condoms?

Mentally ill people can be highly INTELLIGENT are VERY RESOURCEFUL, gun laws of any nature would not apply to them. Just as laws to gangs to not concern them either. History educates us to understand that restricting weapons from the general public invites tyranny.

OldWiseGuy said:

When the dust has settled the innocent lives taken by the Oregon shooter are indeed part of the price of freedom in the U.S. The shooter had not violated any gun laws, and the only way he could have been prevented from doing this act was to have been committed to a secure mental institution under the pertinent laws of the State of Oregon.

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Well, with respect,perhaps another avenue to stop this man who had in his possession guns he'd legally acquired was if those who read what he supposedly wrote on the social media site, 4Chan, as pertained to warning people to avoid the Oregon Campus the day of the shooting, had reported that posting to someone at the campus. Or to the police.

Nithavela said:

How about gun condoms?

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Lives are lost or are changed forever due to this premeditated mass slaughter, and you're making stupid jokes?

Should I rather try to promote my political agenda, like everyone else? Would that be better?

heatedmonk said:

Well, with respect,perhaps another avenue to stop this man who had in his possession guns he'd legally acquired was if those who read what he supposedly wrote on the social media site, 4Chan, as pertained to warning people to avoid the Oregon Campus the day of the shooting, had reported that posting to someone at the campus. Or to the police.

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You don't know 4chan, do you? If everything suspicious posted on that site would be reported to the police, you'd need a million more officers.

dysert said:

While I think that's good in theory, it wouldn't work in practice. That's because of the way mentally ill people are treated in society. For example, I personally know someone who was fired as soon as their employer found out they had depression. So it's not just a social stigma but a problem that can affect a person's whole life.

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We have to work at turning theory into practice. Once upon a time, equal rights for women and minorities was "good in theory". Eventually through trial and error and growing pains we've turned theory into practice.

As a nation, we've got to do the same with mental health. We've got to get over the stigmas and taboo nature of mental health. And part of that is the severe lack of mental health education and the fact everyone thinks they are a defacto expert on their own personal mental health when the reality is most people aren't that mentally healthy.

Rick Otto said:

......... And when the lying gov/"public" schools have dumbed these shooters down enough not to know who to aim at, you get public massacre..

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What???

Please dont' convolute and twist this into some sort of right vs left Fox News talking points conspiracy theory.

This isn't about the lying government or public schools,.

This is about a mentally sick individual conducting mass murder. He wasn't a liberal, he wasn't a conservative, he was a looney crazy mother-bleeper who grabbed a gun and decided to express his depression and rage by killing innocent people.

Every single time we go on some politicized tangent we enable the next massacre and the next and the next. Both sides of the isle need to stop the politics and address the issue with concrete fixes.

Making guns illegal will never fly. As a tax paying law abiding citizen I REFUSE to surrender my guns simply because crazy people out there go on shooting rampages. To me, that is no more a fix than taking everyone's automobiles to stop all the drunk drivers out there.

We have all of this freaking technology. How about we use some of it along with the scientific method.

Develop metrics and correlations for mass shootings
Profile the people who commit these things
Use databases and A.I. programs out there to comb through all of our information
ID people who are "at risk" of committing these types of shootings and monitor them and get them mental help BEFORE they go on shooting rampages
Require registration and licensing for guns
Put GPS trackers on all guns
Require mental health screenings for all gun applicants

Anyways, we need to be more proactive about these things and stop trying to blame the left or the right for all the problems here.

Nithavela said:

Should I rather try to promote my political agenda, like everyone else? Would that be better?

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Who can advise such a one as that who thinks of all things but compassion in the wake of this.

In less than 10 minutes the Douglas County sheriff is going to give a news conference. MSNBC announced this. I would imagine most news networks will carry the live broadcast. Just as an FYI. It's currently 3 p.m eastern time and noon in Oregon.

if your talking to me , first of all I wasn't making a joke. first thing this president does use it ! then the liberals here used it.. men do use many things to destroy all of society most of which is their pecker, then cars and bars and booze , drugs and and list goes on and on including the courts.. by courts they they have stolen lands and kill babies they are billions times more deadly than guns are.
violent crime goes up triple in England when they took away guns..
why is not all those other things which by themselves are a thousand time more miserable and deadly to all in society .. why are they not on the board of things to take away " TO save society "? especially from the abusers all of these things ?
no the liberals only want to take away the innocent peoples right to defend themselves against all abusers of all these things . because everyone want their freedom to do that to everyone else and to abuse all those things !
they don't want anyone to defend themselves against all that abuse from all those other things either ? their motives are clear a crystal . they are seeking who they can destroy, the weak the old and the young are most vulnerable in a society that can't or won't defend them.