Pictures of Jesus.

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Fireinfolding

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In Jesus Christ was the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Col 2:9) and Paul says, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. (Acts 17:29)

Paul adds that God winked at this particular ignorance (Acts 17:30, see sin in ignorance in Lev 4:2 & 4:27) but commanded all men to repent from the idolatry he saw the city which they were given to (as is shown in Acts 17:16), the same is shown in Duet 29:17, adressed in Acts 17:30, informed to repent of the same in Acts 17:30, expounded on here 1 Cr 10:7 spoken of here Exodus 32:6-8 corrupted themselves in the making of the same which is also testified of accordingly here in Duet 4:16 of which things they did not repent shown in Rev 19:20
 
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Fireinfolding

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The word became flesh not cement

2 Cr 5:17
Wherefore henceforth ((know we)) no man after the flesh:
(( yea )), though we have known Christ after the flesh,
(( yet now )) henceforth ((know we him)) no more.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And likewise,

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
we ought not to think
that the Godhead is like unto gold,
or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
 
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Root of Jesse

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He would look like Sly Stallone if we went by one of the earliest pics

2333650
2333647


Wouldnt he? ^_^

I just couldnt resist, Peace Bro, just popping in and adding a pic

Jesus Christ coming in the flesh was the image of THE INVISIBLE (not visible) God, so any "after the flesh" representation really doesnt capture the fulness of the Godhead in that way.

But I'm thinking he looks like Sly Stallone a little (at least according to what chicken scratch artwork there is of him after the flesh). Theres so many after the flesh Jesus pictures out there

2340905


God bless Jason
Actually, the Icon you posted looks a lot like the image He left us. Not in stone or concrete, but on cloth.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Covetousness is also idolatry (Col 3:5) showing there is inward and outward (as Paul beheld the same in Acts 17:16) both called by God abominations (Duet 29:17 &Luke 16:14) Jesus adresses their hearts in the inward idolatry

Luke 16:14 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

This...

Ye are they
which justify yourselves before men
 
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Root of Jesse

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Covetousness is also idolatry (Col 3:5) showing there is inward and outward (as Paul beheld the same in Acts 17:16) both called by God abominations (Duet 29:17 &Luke 16:14) Jesus adresses their hearts in the inward idolatry

Luke 16:14 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

This...

Ye are they
which justify yourselves before men
Absolutely! The way people pursue money and TVs these days is idolatry. Having a picture of Jesus, when used as a worship-aid, is not the same thing. But I am convinced that we have at least two images of Jesus that He Himself left us, and that the vision of Him in iconography stems from those images.
 
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Root of Jesse

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I thought this was interesting as well

2456424
Mary is queen of heaven ONLY because Jesus is the King of Kings. The example of Solomon's queen (Bathsheba, his mother) is Biblical.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Outward abominations(that which can be seen as expressed here)
Duet 29:16 (For ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt;
and how we came through the nations which ye passed by;


Duet 29:17 And ye have seen their abominations,
andtheir idols,wood and stone, silver and gold,
which were among them)


Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him
when he saw
the city wholly given to idolatry.
(See Acts 17:29-30 & Rev 9:20 in respects to the same)

Paul being among the philosophers of the Epicureans (Acts 17:18) he adressed as
men of Athens(Acts 17:22) and warns in Col 2:8 saying

Col 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world,
and not after Christ
.

As he writes of Christ this way,

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And what we ought not think concerning the Godhead
when it comes to that graven by art and man's device

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold,
or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Shows God overlooking the time of this ignorance
(of things that ought not be done) Lev 4:2 &47

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at;
but now commandeth all men every where to repent
(it also shows some men do not repent of this in Rev 9:20)

In 1 Cr, Paul touches on idolatry in a certain place in Exodus

As 1 Cr 19:7 is referring to Exodus 32:6
When Paul writes, Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them;
as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

This is where the LORD said to Moses

Exodus 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people,
which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves
:

Corrupting yourselves is actually shown in accord with the same, for example

Duet 4:16-18 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image,
the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female
The likeness of any beast that is on the earth,
the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground,
the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth

Go also to Duet 4:25 as well regarding corrupting one self in the same thing (see below)
(and the provoking him unto anger) with Duet 32:2 and Psalm 78:58 (which confirm)

Then Paul goes into how these things (he lists) happened unto them for ensamples
1 Cr 10:11 and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

He closes it by saying,

1 Cr 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry

Childrens children corrupting yourselves and make a graven image of likeness of any thing

Duet 4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children,
and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves,
and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing,
and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger
:
 
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Root of Jesse

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Outward abominations(that which can be seen as expressed here)
Duet 29:16 (For ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt;
and how we came through the nations which ye passed by;


Duet 29:17 And ye have seen their abominations,
andtheir idols,wood and stone, silver and gold,
which were among them)
These idols were worshiped, though, they weren't just objects they made.
Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him
when he saw
the city wholly given to idolatry.
(See Acts 17:29-30 & Rev 9:20 in respects to the same)

Paul being among the philosophers of the Epicureans (Acts 17:18) he adressed as
men of Athens(Acts 17:22) and warns in Col 2:8 saying

Col 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world,
and not after Christ
.

As he writes of Christ this way,

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And what we ought not think concerning the Godhead
when it comes to that graven by art and man's device

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold,
or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device
.

Shows God overlooking the time of this ignorance
(of things that ought not be done) Lev 4:2 &47

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at;
but now commandeth all men every where to repent
(it also shows some men do not repent of this in Rev 9:20)

In 1 Cr, Paul touches on idolatry in a certain place in Exodus

As 1 Cr 19:7 is referring to Exodus 32:6
When Paul writes, Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them;
as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

This is where the LORD said to Moses

Exodus 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people,
which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves
:

Corrupting yourselves is actually shown in accord with the same, for example

Duet 4:16-18 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image,
the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female
The likeness of any beast that is on the earth,
the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground,
the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth

Go also to Duet 4:25 as well regarding corrupting one self in the same thing (see below)
(and the provoking him unto anger) with Duet 32:2 and Psalm 78:58 (which confirm)

Then Paul goes into how these things (he lists) happened unto them for ensamples
1 Cr 10:11 and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

He closes it by saying,

1 Cr 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry

Childrens children corrupting yourselves and make a graven image of likeness of any thing

Duet 4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children,
and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves,
and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing,
and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger
:
An idol is anything you put before God. Your own vanities, for example. Your quote from Deuteronomy 4 leaves out the first part of v 16 and v 15 altogether
"Because you saw no form at all on the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire, be strictly on your guard
16not to act corruptly by fashioning an idol for yourselves to represent any figure, "
Again, it's to make something that you worship. Idols are things made to be worshiped as Gods. The image we make of God is not to be worshiped itself.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Blessing idols is mentions in Isaiah

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol.

Yea, they have chosen their own ways,
and their soul delighteth in their abominations.



2333460


Duet 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves,
and make you a graven image,
the similitude of any figure
, the likeness of male or female,

2333611


Again,

He that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol.
(Isaiah 66:3)

2333590


Which one is being done here?

Burning incense (?)
or blessing an idol (?)

(Isaiah 66:3) It appears to me that blessing idols is not a good thing (altogether)
and he that burneth incense unto the same IS (( AS IF )) he did the same thing (which blesses idols)

If he that burneth incense unto the same is equated with that blessing an idol

Then blessing an idol is good?

Water blessing idols?
Not incense blessing idols?

santo_ninos_statues2.jpg


Paul even says

1 Cr 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Will God give his praises to graven images?

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

mary_worship34.jpg


As then, there were some who said,

Jerm 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth,

To do what?

To burn incense

Unto whom?

Unto the queen of heaven
,

meg25.jpg


See the earlier post showing in Acts 14:12 that pagans will quickly place holy men (like Barnabas and Paul) into pagan god positions such as they did the same to the apostles to sacrifice unto them, and put the two into
Jupiter and Mercurius position (ready to do sacrifice unto them).

The same with Mary into the pagan Queen of heaven's position, there they are both side by side

She is called the Queen of heaven also

It was bad enough they made these images,
but now they not only bow before them
but tell them to kiss them (go ahead kiss them!)

Hosea 13:2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen:
they say of them,
((( Let the men ))) that sacrifice kiss the calves.

2333614



Kissing idols,

Prayer is set before idols
is even as incense is burned before idols
idols are bowed before and kissed
And idols are blessed with holy water

2333461


Prayer or incense (either one)

Psalm 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before (( thee )) as incense;
and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

Hosea 11:2 As they called them, so they went from them:
they sacrificed unto Baalim
, and burned incense (( to )) graven images.
2333460


Again, see Acts 14:12 showing pagans will quickly place holy men into these pagan god positions to do sacrifice unto them

In Acts 14 shows the pagans calling the apostles themselves by the names of the same (such as Jupiter and Mercurius).

So it shouldnt be surprising to have Mary (as Paul and Barnabas were)
and the same being placed (even set up) in these pagan positions in order to be sacrificed unto.

I dont believe Mary is no exception to this rule (as even oral tradition would have it)

it is of their own mouth not God's

Jerm 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth,

And,

to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her,

as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem:

Which shows long standing tradition, an oral one that they themselves testify of (saying, they would do that which goeth forth out of their own mouth)

And they continue, saying, for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

They burned incense (whether literally with a censor, or by prayer before these things) when that wasnt even permitted to what represented Christ becoming sin, and His being lifted up in such a manner (even by the commandment of God)

The brazen serpent, they were to look upon to live

2340129


Burning incense to it was what they were not to be doing back then
either, not justifiably (whether it is being called an icon or not)

2340130


The brasen serpent was destroyed... why?

2 Kings 18:4 He (Hezekiah) removed the high places, and brake the images,

and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it:

and he
(Hezekiah) called it Nehushtan
(a thing of brass)

And, Hezekiah did what was right in the eyes of the LORD as he trusted in Him
 
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Root of Jesse

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Blessing idols is mentions in Isaiah

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol.

Yea, they have chosen their own ways,
and their soul delighteth in their abominations.



2333460


Duet 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves,
and make you a graven image,
the similitude of any figure
, the likeness of male or female,
I don't see any idol here. I see a statue.

2333611


Again,

He that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol.
(Isaiah 66:3)
For it to be an idol, it must be worshiped as God. Not so here.

2333590


Which one is being done here?

Burning incense (?)
or blessing an idol (?)
Is there a problem with burning incense? Again, no idol here.
(Isaiah 66:3) It appears to me that blessing idols is not a good thing (altogether)
and he that burneth incense unto the same IS (( AS IF )) he did the same thing (which blesses idols)

If he that burneth incense unto the same is equated with that blessing an idol

Then blessing an idol is good?

Water blessing idols?
Not incense blessing idols?

santo_ninos_statues2.jpg
Point out which are idols, meaning figures being worshiped as God?
Paul even says

1 Cr 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Will God give his praises to graven images?

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

mary_worship34.jpg
Again, I don't see any idol...sorry for my blindness. If you're saying the man is kissing and bowing to an idol, how would YOU know that the statue is his god? Seems you're judging people by actions which you translate as worship. Judging hearts, I think...
As then, there were some who said,

Jerm 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth,

To do what?

To burn incense

Unto whom?

Unto the queen of heaven
,

meg25.jpg
I don't know what the first picture is, but the second is an icon, a painting of God and his mother. The image represents God, but is not, in and of itself, worshiped. Therefore, no idol.
See the earlier post showing in Acts 14:12 that pagans will quickly place holy men (like Barnabas and Paul) into pagan god positions such as they did the same to the apostles to sacrifice unto them, and put the two into
Jupiter and Mercurius position (ready to do sacrifice unto them).
Anyone making any sacrifices to any of the figures above? I don't see that.
The same with Mary into the pagan Queen of heaven's position, there they are both side by side
The pagan image, whatever it is, is not Jesus' mother, therefore, not the Queen of Heaven that Jesus' mother is.
She is called the Queen of heaven also

It was bad enough they made these images,
but now they not only bow before them
but tell them to kiss them (go ahead kiss them!)
Their responses to the entity represented by the image is not worship. Sorry to pop your bubble.
Hosea 13:2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen:
they say of them,
((( Let the men ))) that sacrifice kiss the calves.

2333614



Kissing idols,

Prayer is set before idols
is even as incense is burned before idols
idols are bowed before and kissed
And idols are blessed with holy water

2333461


Prayer or incense (either one)

Psalm 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before (( thee )) as incense;
and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

Hosea 11:2 As they called them, so they went from them:
they sacrificed unto Baalim
, and burned incense (( to )) graven images.
2333460


Again, see Acts 14:12 showing pagans will quickly place holy men into these pagan god positions to do sacrifice unto them

In Acts 14 shows the pagans calling the apostles themselves by the names of the same (such as Jupiter and Mercurius).

So it shouldnt be surprising to have Mary (as Paul and Barnabas were)
and the same being placed (even set up) in these pagan positions in order to be sacrificed unto.

I dont believe Mary is no exception to this rule (as even oral tradition would have it)

it is of their own mouth not God's

Jerm 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth,

And,

to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her,

as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem:

Which shows long standing tradition, an oral one that they themselves testify of (saying, they would do that which goeth forth out of their own mouth)

And they continue, saying, for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

They burned incense (whether literally with a censor, or by prayer before these things) when that wasnt even permitted to what represented Christ becoming sin, and His being lifted up in such a manner (even by the commandment of God)

The brazen serpent, they were to look upon to live

2340129


Burning incense to it was what they were not to be doing back then
either, not justifiably (whether it is being called an icon or not)

2340130


The brasen serpent was destroyed... why?

2 Kings 18:4 He (Hezekiah) removed the high places, and brake the images,

and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it:

and he
(Hezekiah) called it Nehushtan
(a thing of brass)

And, Hezekiah did what was right in the eyes of the LORD as he trusted in Him
Sorry, still no idols I can see...so therefore no worshiping idols.
 
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Fireinfolding

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You can just post scripture and they will chase you around the board as if the scripture is an enemy to them because Jesus told us they would justify themselves in such like abominations

So just let the scripture speak for themselves
 
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Root of Jesse

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Is it a sin to burn incense? No, not according to Revelation, where the smoke from incense carries the prayers of the living to the saints in heaven. So incense carries our prayer to the one we're asking for intercession. So now you can see that the image is a representation, a worship aid, that the incense is not being burned for the image's sake, but for the person it represents. That person, in turn, is not being worshiped, but being asked for intercessory prayer. Sorry to burst your bubble again.
 
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Fireinfolding

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You can just post scripture and they will chase you around the board as if the scripture is an enemy to them because Jesus told us they would justify themselves in such like abominations

So just let the scripture speak for themselves

2456511
 
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