Is the Book of Enoch true?

Free at Calvary · Sep 21, 2015

Superhero Sam said:
A guy at my church says it's true, but I doubt it is divinely inspired because it makes many far fetched claims.

I agree.

The apocryphal books read like the Koran to me, or some other dime store novel. They might be good for a laugh, but that’s it. The sentence structure, the content, etc., all clearly man’s style, with dramatic effect and much imagination. I don’t even need to research it; seems obvious it’s not God’s counsel, wisdom, instruction, etc.

Hey, if people can call the Amplified Bible the word of God which to me is commentary, why not the apocryphal books? But that’s them and this is me, receiving as truth such things on which we cannot agree.

zippy2 · Sep 21, 2015

Jde 1:13

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Jde 1:14

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jde 1:15

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

If Jude spoke of Enoch's prophesy of something that would happen at the end of this age and Jude believed him, why should we speak against Enoch's writings?

Handmaid for Jesus · Sep 21, 2015

zippy2 said:
Jde 1:13

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Jde 1:14

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jde 1:15

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

If Jude spoke of Enoch's prophesy of something that would happen at the end of this age and Jude believed him, why should we speak against Enoch's writings?

The fear is that the so called "outrageous" claims of the book of Enoch may be true, and the things coming on the Earth are too horrible for today's soft, head in the clouds,believers to contemplate.

Free at Calvary · Sep 21, 2015

Many people claiming to know God are on their own, following their own intellect, leaning on their own understanding, believing whatever sounds right. I can't imagine these folks are living by faith otherwise how could they stand building on shifting sand?

Besides, people that know Christ shouldn't be afraid of the destructions to fall on the world.

zippy2 · Sep 21, 2015

Pro 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

thesunisout · Sep 21, 2015

Before I came to know the Lord, I read all of the "banned" books and so-called lost gospels. They tell their own story about God and who Jesus is, and Gods plan of redemption. I thought, like so many others, that these were the advanced teachings and the bible was kind of like spiritual kindergarten, and highly edited to boot. God shook me of that and showed me that I could trust the bible as being His complete revelation. He guided me away from the book of enoch, and the whole controversy of the fallen angels having sex with human women, and so forth. I'm not afraid of these books, I know exactly what is in them. The Lord doesn't want me to read them, so I haven't. There is more to the bible than anyone could possibly assimilate in a hundred lifetimes, let alone putting it into practice and living like Jesus did. I don't understand the need people have for more, when no one on Earth is even living a fraction of what they could be from the revelation God has given us in His word. This isn't to insult anyone here, I honestly just don't understand it.

Handmaid for Jesus · Sep 21, 2015

thesunisout said:
Before I came to know the Lord, I read all of the "banned" books and so-called lost gospels. They tell their own story about God and who Jesus is, and Gods plan of redemption. I thought, like so many others, that these were the advanced teachings and the bible was kind of like spiritual kindergarten, and highly edited to boot. God shook me of that and showed me that I could trust the bible as being His complete revelation. He guided me away from the book of enoch, and the whole controversy of the fallen angels having sex with human women, and so forth. I'm not afraid of these books, I know exactly what is in them. The Lord doesn't want me to read them, so I haven't. There is more to the bible than anyone could possibly assimilate in a hundred lifetimes, let alone putting it into practice and living like Jesus did. I don't understand the need people have for more, when no one on Earth is even living a fraction of what they could be from the revelation God has given us in His word. This isn't to insult anyone here, I honestly just don't understand it.

At least you did read them.

which is admirable. But let others have the chance to read them and have the same chance to come to their own conclusions as you were able to do without condemnation. I think that is all the posters here are saying.

Crowns&Laurels · Sep 21, 2015

Apocrypha doesn't necessarily mean 'false text'. They are simply dubious in their nature, and do not need to be in the canon. No doubt, there are still some that are simply outrageous.

The book of Enoch has very interesting detail, and is older. It wasn't part of the myriads of ridiculous writings that surged after Christ, which was a major obstacle in preserving the genuine scriptures of those surrounding him.

But there's things within it that are controversial, like this:
Enoch treats Lucifer as the bearer of 'truth', which is very strange considering that he is also called the Father of Lies. And he does not call him Lucifer, but Azazel, which means something along the lines of 'scapegoat'.

It's almost creepy, actually, and such expression can easily mislead others to something such as Luciferianism.

The Christian Church decided to just stay clear of it, to avoid over complication and mystery.

thesunisout · Sep 21, 2015

Handmaid for Jesus said:
At least you did read them. which is admirable. But let others have the chance to read them and have the same chance to come to their own conclusions as you were able to do without condemnation. I think that is all the posters here are saying.

Hi Handmaid,

Let me say first that I am not trying to be critical of you personally, or any other brother or sister in the Lord who considers these books to be legitimate. I love the brethren, whether I agree with them or not. In this case, though, I have to respectfully disagree. I think we as believers have to be absolute about what we call the word of God. If we say that there are books outside the bible that are inspired by God, we are opening up a Pandoras box for weaker believers who don't have a lot of discernment, and even for mature believers in this case. You cannot put the word of God into a category of personal taste and preference. This is why the bible warns so strongly about going outside of what is written, and about false teachers and false prophets. What is or isn't Gods word doesn't belong in the realm of human opinion; we have a book full of Gods words which He promised to preserve for every generation. There are many generations which never saw the book of Enoch, but every generation has had access to Gods word.

There are many books claiming to be Gods word, and there are many commentators, theologians, cultural influences, and even Pastors which point to extra-biblical sources as being the inspired word of God. We as believers need to be a light in that darkness. If we say, okay go outside the bible, then where do you draw the line? This isn't something we can ever afford to be wishy washy on. The world needs to know exactly what is and what isn't Gods word, because it is the word of God which converts the soul; that means eternity could actually be at stake by what we call the word of God.

heatedmonk · Sep 21, 2015

Job8 said:
Because all truth is not Bible Truth. Scripture is GOD-BREATHED (2 Tim 3:16). If God caused Jude to quote from Enoch, then we accept Jude as Scripture. Paul also quotes from secular sources.

Interesting position. All scripture is God breathed, all the canon was mortally elected to become so.

BryanW92 · Sep 22, 2015

thesunisout said:
The Lord doesn't want me to read them, so I haven't. There is more to the bible than anyone could possibly assimilate in a hundred lifetimes, let alone putting it into practice and living like Jesus did. I don't understand the need people have for more, when no one on Earth is even living a fraction of what they could be from the revelation God has given us in His word. This isn't to insult anyone here, I honestly just don't understand it.

God doesn't give us more than we can handle. Genesis 6-9 takes up 2-3 pages in the bible. That's not a lot of information for an event that literally changed the face of the world and killed almost every living thing. Some of us need to know more because the biblical account of the flood raises more questions than it answers. In another thread, someone explained the various levels of "truth" in Hebrew literature and it answered the inerrancy question for me. Enoch is not scripture. It is not inerrant, but it does expound on the brief account of the flood in Genesis.

BryanW92 · Sep 22, 2015

thesunisout said:
There are many generations which never saw the book of Enoch, but every generation has had access to Gods word.

Every generation since the 16th century. Prior to that, the public access to God's word was filtered through priests.

mikedsjr · Sep 22, 2015

Deleted

Handmaid for Jesus · Sep 22, 2015

thesunisout said:
Hi Handmaid,

Let me say first that I am not trying to be critical of you personally, or any other brother or sister in the Lord who considers these books to be legitimate. I love the brethren, whether I agree with them or not. In this case, though, I have to respectfully disagree. I think we as believers have to be absolute about what we call the word of God. If we say that there are books outside the bible that are inspired by God, we are opening up a Pandoras box for weaker believers who don't have a lot of discernment, and even for mature believers in this case. You cannot put the word of God into a category of personal taste and preference. This is why the bible warns so strongly about going outside of what is written, and about false teachers and false prophets. What is or isn't Gods word doesn't belong in the realm of human opinion; we have a book full of Gods words which He promised to preserve for every generation. There are many generations which never saw the book of Enoch, but every generation has had access to Gods word.

There are many books claiming to be Gods word, and there are many commentators, theologians, cultural influences, and even Pastors which point to extra-biblical sources as being the inspired word of God. We as believers need to be a light in that darkness. If we say, okay go outside the bible, then where do you draw the line? This isn't something we can ever afford to be wishy washy on. The world needs to know exactly what is and what isn't Gods word, because it is the word of God which converts the soul; that means eternity could actually be at stake by what we call the word of God.

None of us have said that we call the book of Enoch the Word of God. None of us said it is infallible. None of us have said that it is divine. I personally said that I read it as history as I would read any other history book.I read it as I would read Josephus which most studious Christians read.The Book of Enoch is NOT canon. I DO NOT take it as scripture. Do you understand what I am saying here? It is a HISTORY BOOK! I read Maccabees as HISTORY. That is how I know about how the miracle of Hanukkah( which is celebrated every year) was instituted. Try as you might, you will not find that in our canon.We never said the Book of Enoch was the Word of God.

zippy2 · Sep 22, 2015

Handmaid for Jesus said:
None of us have said that we call the book of Enoch the Word of God. None of us said it is infallible. None of us have said that it is divine. I personally said that I read it as history as I would read any other history book.I read it as I would read Josephus which most studious Christians read.The Book of Enoch is NOT canon. I DO NOT take it as scripture. Do you understand what I am saying here? It is a HISTORY BOOK! I read Maccabees as HISTORY. That is how I know about how the miracle of Hanukkah( which is celebrated every year) was instituted. Try as you might, you will not find that in our canon.We never said the Book of Enoch was the Word of God.

Amen Handmaiden.
For some reason the book of Enoch gets folks all up in arms even when one discusses it as an historical document.
I read somewhere Jude had his own copy of it. If it's good enough for Jude, then it's good enough for me to at least READ.
And don't even TRY to bring up the book of Mary. My oh my they start gathering wood for the fire. Again, historically it is very interesting although not canon. I would not stake my salvation on it. I would not train a new Christian on it for heaven's sake.
I dunno the big deal.
Zip

BryanW92 · Sep 22, 2015

mikedsjr said:
The Bible doesn't say,"God doesn't give us more than we can handle". That's false theology. Im not opposed to motivational sayings. I listen to motivational speeches all the time. 1 Cor 10:13 deals with temptation. Not information. Your stance on this book reminds me of someone reading The Shack to understand the Trinity. You might mean well, but your reading a load of manure. And until you figure this out, you'll just find my words as rude, instead of truth. Because there isn't a lot of difference between the two, except one is modern and known. Yet the Shack was praised by many ignorant Christians.

Nice. Your insult me multiple times in one post and then say that I'm insulted because I'm ignorant. I refused to read The Shack, so I'm not fully ignorant.

But I was actually talking about temptation when I said that God never gives you more than you can handle: the temptation to read things that may change your worldview and your beliefs about God and the bible. There are people who even think that reading anything but the KJV is sinful.

Obviously God gives people more tribulations than they can handle. You see cancer, divorce, crime, betrayal, etc all the time in the lives of Christians. But, reading is really just a temptation to see what you can see, discover new things--some edifying and some not so edifying.

mikedsjr · Sep 22, 2015

BryanW92 said:
Nice. Your insult me multiple times in one post and then say that I'm insulted because I'm ignorant. I refused to read The Shack, so I'm not fully ignorant.

But I was actually talking about temptation when I said that God never gives you more than you can handle: the temptation to read things that may change your worldview and your beliefs about God and the bible. There are people who even think that reading anything but the KJV is sinful.

Obviously God gives people more tribulations than they can handle. You see cancer, divorce, crime, betrayal, etc all the time in the lives of Christians. But, reading is really just a temptation to see what you can see, discover new things--some edifying and some not so edifying.

I apologize.

In fact I'm the biggest idiot. I just realized I was thinking of the book of Jasher this entire time, which I read. I have no clue what the book of Enoch is, what it is about. I can't even come close to giving an educated guess on this book.

BryanW92 · Sep 22, 2015

mikedsjr said:
I apologize.

In fact I'm the biggest idiot. I just realized I was thinking of the book of Jasher this entire time, which I read. I have no clue what the book of Enoch is, what it is about. I can't even come close to giving an educated guess on this book.

I was introduced to it in a class on Creationism. You should read it. Think of it as fiction, but note all the things in it that people assume are true for the account of the Flood and of angels, yet do not appear in the bible. The book (3 books actually: 1, 2, and 3 Enoch) have had some influence on Christianity even if they aren't scripture.

ToBeLoved · Sep 22, 2015

Handmaid for Jesus said:
The fear is that the so called "outrageous" claims of the book of Enoch may be true, and the things coming on the Earth are too horrible for today's soft, head in the clouds,believers to contemplate.

Yeah that's it. We are all to scared to read it. :scratch:

We read the book of Revelation which is very dim, very dim but we are scared of the book of Enoch that happened 2,300 years ago.

Xalith · Sep 22, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Yeah that's it. We are all to scared to read it. We read the book of Revelation which is very dim, very dim but we are scared of the book of Enoch that happened 2,300 years ago.

People are afraid that one might read that book and suddenly end up worshipping Satan or something, lol. God gave us a discernment muscle for a reason, right? God tells us to "test the spirits", to test what we hear or read against Scripture. If it aligns with Scripture, then there's nothing wrong with it. If it conflicts with Scripture, then it is false, and wrong.

I don't think God wanted everybody to be bound and locked up inside of a book. I've met so many people (especially on these forums, no offense) who say "if it ain't in the Bible it is absolutely false" and they will refuse to take seriously or even consider anything at all unless it appears in the Bible to the extremes that they will go "WHERE'S THE SCRIPTURE SAYING THAT!?" when you make some common-sense remark that agrees with Scripture. I've seen it happen in threads I've participated in.

Is the Book of Enoch true?

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