Walter Williams on the pathology of racial problems in Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit and Ferguson

Mr Williams ignores the decades of Jim Crow laws, the fact that even menial jobs now expect some level of education (that black teens have less of relative to white teens) and the fact that poor finances affect marriage stability more than marriage instability affects finances.

Maybe poverty manifests itself today differently than it did a century ago. Maybe it manifests itself differently in urban areas than in rural areas. But when you spend generations forcing a segment of the population into poverty (which is what our nation did, and continues to do on a more limited scale), it's not really fair to blame them for living in ghettos.

NightHawkeye said:

Having watched the process with interest for more than half a century, it seems clear enough now. Like nearly all problems, these have causes much closer to home than people admit to.

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Any individual's problems likely start at home, but when you have the same thing happening on a large scale, it's time to start looking at systemic causes. It's not unlike disease: sure, maybe Johnny caught measles from his sister, but when everybody in Johnny's school has measles, maybe you should be looking at vaccination programs and other large-scale measures that can be taken to prevent its spread.

Rather than putting so much faith in government and political institutions, perhaps if there had been more focus on God and personal responsibility.

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The Bible belt has some of the highest rates of poverty, teen pregnancy, and divorce in the country, so I don't think focus on God is a terribly effective public policy. Perhaps if we have government address the proper solutions to the problems, instead of ignoring them for political gain, then we can make some headway.

I would like to see where Williams got his figures.

Dr. Walter E. Williams has hit on something that does not play in the Liberal mindset. It seems that the people who blame someone or something else for their plight are encouraged by the things they say are intended to HELP them. It is clear that these things (gov.charity, etc.,) are actually causing the problems we see today. Jim Crow laws have not been in effect for all the lifetime of anyone under 60 years old, and slavery has not been in effect for 150 years! The problems causing the current ills, that keep young black people from getting a job, have more to do with their own behavior, and the efforts of some people and groups to HELP them.

The Minimum Wage is a large factor in this. If there is a minimum that must be paid to ANYONE working, the person had better know more, and do more, because the company cannot get as many low-skilled people for the monies available for that. Other factors are how many black youths are discouraged by their peers from getting an education. That is the exact opposite attitude that existed immediately after slavery was abolished. The people who wanted black people to remain ignorant by not allowing (or simply discouraging) them were not their friends and peers. Now, the education many of these people get is how to work the system. That seems to be more valuable and acceptable in the crowd they run in than to seek to better their opportunities through education.

I am not talking about ALL black people, and Dr. Williams is an example of the opposite situation. Regardless of his situation, and whoever may have impeded him, he got an education, and achieved significant things in his lifetime. This does, however, cause a serious problem for about half of all young black people these days.

In my own life, I see things that were keeping me from doing better that had to do with my parents and friends, more than the society at large! That is not the exact same thing, but I still feel it today. It is an overriding factor in certain situations where I had believed certain errors taught by my parents. An example is how it took many years and a lot of trouble for me to learn that certain things my dad taught me about automobile brakes were wrong. Small example, but that cannot be blamed on society. It is my own fault.

It is not how we start, but how we finish that is important! We may have little power over circumstances, influences and motivations that exist when we begin life, and may even embrace the wrong things, but that can change in a positive way if we allow it, or work towards it!


Dr. Thomas Sowell did not stay the way he was when he was young. It was not "beaten" out of him when getting an education under the Nobel Prize winning economist, but his real life experience taught him better than he allowed anyone else to do.

Avid said:

It is not how we start, but how we finish that is important! We may have little power over circumstances, influences and motivations that exist when we begin life, and may even embrace the wrong things, but that can change in a positive way if we allow it, or work towards it!


Dr. Thomas Sowell did not stay the way he was when he was young. It was not "beaten" out of him when getting an education under the Nobel Prize winning economist, but his real life experience taught him better than he allowed anyone else to do.

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What a load of crap (not you but what Sowell says). He talks a lot but doesn't really say anything. Sowell and Williams....other than talking a lot, what have they dones for the black community lately? "the annointed ones" LOL

Here is a guy truly making a difference. Here is a man walking the walk, and not just blowing hot air.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...james-helping-parents-ohio-earn-ged/71921656/
LeBron James is helping Ohio parents earn their GED

Avid said:

It is not how we start, but how we finish that is important!

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How we start has a huge impact on how we finish. For every Dr Sowell, there are 100 who don't rise to that level. Your argument is no more substantive than the lottery's old slogan that "all it takes is a dollar and a dream." The exceptions do not make the rule.

Avid said:

The Minimum Wage is a large factor in this. If there is a minimum that must be paid to ANYONE working, the person had better know more, and do more, because the company cannot get as many low-skilled people for the monies available for that.

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Removing minimum wage isn't going to reduce or ease poverty. It will deepen poverty for a large segment of the country. Removing minimum wage might increase the number of jobs, put it will put further downward pressure on wages. Allowing people to work for pennies doesn't help anyone but the employers, who are already giving workers the lowest amount relative to their production in the last 40 years. Businesses are reaping more profits than ever, and workers are receiving less compensation than they have in some time. Removing the minimum wage would amplify this already troubling trend.

NightHawkeye said:

Wasn't Always This Way | TownHall

Academics and public intellectuals, who should know better, attempt to explain the highly visible and publicized pathology witnessed in cities such as Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, Ferguson and others as a legacy of slavery. The argument is made that the problems encountered by many black Americans are rooted in white racism, greed and income inequality. They are able to get away with these untruths because most people believe that what is seen today has always been. A bit of history would belie such a vision.
...
I have only addressed three major problems confronting a large segment of the black community -- family structure, illegitimacy and unemployment. Which one of them can be tackled by expending resources on what white people are doing or not doing? The weak family structure and illegitimacy are devastating problems, but they are not civil rights problems and have nothing to do with racial discrimination. The black unemployment problem is different. Much of it is the result of the labor market's having been rigged by powerful vested interests aided, perhaps unwittingly, by much of the black political structure.​

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What jumps out at me right away is the dishonesty of presentation. Trying to pass off illegitimacy and weak family structure as two seperate problems is, to put it nicely, just plain dishonest.

Should the minimum wage be $27 per hour? People making $27 per hour in this economic climate are not so poor! Does that sound like a plan?

Avid said:

Should the minimum wage be $27 per hour? People making $27 per hour in this economic climate are not so poor! Does that sound like a plan?

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Who suggested making the minimum wage $27 per hour (other than the person who just prior said we should do away with the minimum wage)?

There are calls to make it $15. Why not $27? I do expect you to answer.

This would specifically help the younger people now required to pay for everyone else's Health Insurance, since $8 or $15 would not be really enough for what has been placed upon them.

Avid said:

There are calls to make it $15. Why not $27? I do expect you to answer.

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There are multiple reasons not to make it $27. The primary reason $27 is probably not a good change is that it doesn't accurately reflect the productivity of the lowest paid workers in the economy. It would likely be onerous to businesses, especially changing the minimum wage that much (400%) in one step. Change is better accommodated if it is gradual.

Businesses are confiscating the majority of productivity of workers as profits rather than paying that productivity back as wages. There has been a 40 year decline in wages relative to productivity. Increasing the minimum wage is one tool to help push that back to what was working in an effective economy (a tide that raised all ships). Currently we have an economy in which the only ships being raised are at the very top of the food chain, and the real contributors to the economy - workers - are not reaping the benefits of their productivity.

Don't those people deserve a chance to make more money? If 2x is good, why isn't 4x twice as good?

If increasing it is good, why is increasing it faster not good?

Avid, would you care to explain how removing the minimum wage and allowing businesses to pay workers less than the current minimum wage will lift people out of poverty. In your earlier post you stated the minimum wage increased poverty, but didn't offer any explanation as to how it increased poverty. The company being able to hire more low-skilled workers at a lower wage won't decrease poverty as far as i'm aware...

Answering a question with a question? I had hoped you would consider the actual impact of what I asked.

There are reasons to have a minimum wage, but they have little or nothing to do with benefiting poor people (as described in the above video with Dr. Thomas Sowell.) He showed that the Labor Dept. has no interest in improving the lives of the poor people using a minimum wage. It is simply a way to finance and justify their existence!


There is more reason to think the minimum wage is motivated by racist intents than any intent to improve the circumstances of poor people.

Why do you think a minimum wage helps people who are not working? How does it help them get a job? Eighty years ago, people were glad to get a job making a dollar a day. From that perspective, my grandfather told me that no one was worth $8 per hour! I guess he had heard something about that and was just itching to make his opinion known!

Avid said:

Don't those people deserve a chance to make more money? If 2x is good, why isn't 4x twice as good?

If increasing it is good, why is increasing it faster not good?

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I already answered that question. The minimum wage should be in-line with worker productivity. This isn't to say that workers are only producing $15/hour of value (they produce more), but that level of compensation allows businesses to still see profit margins they had in the past. Increasing it beyond worker productivity doesn't make sense.

Avid said:

Answering a question with a question? I had hoped you would consider the actual impact of what I asked.

There are reasons to have a minimum wage, but they have little or nothing to do with benefiting poor people (as described in the above video with Dr. Thomas Sowell.) He showed that the Labor Dept. has no interest in improving the lives of the poor people using a minimum wage. It is simply a way to finance and justify their existence!

There is more reason to think the minimum wage is motivated by racist intents than any intent to improve the circumstances of poor people.

Why do you think a minimum wage helps people who are not working? How does it help them get a job? Eighty years ago, people were glad to get a job making a dollar a day. From that perspective, my grandfather told me that no one was worth $8 per hour! I guess he had heard something about that and was just itching to make his opinion known!

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I answered your questions. You have not answered my questions. How does working at less than current minimum wage help anyone out of poverty, being that working a full-time job at minimum wage keeps a worker in poverty.