Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Jan Volkes said:

How much of the Quran is true?

Any sentence can be made to say whatever you want it to say, even America is mentioned in the bible,
'And they entered a land of plenty and the multitude did go forth unto their estates', surly it's talking about the US,
where else do they have estates? apart from every where on earth?

There are a couple of sure fire ways to make money, write a book about religion or start your own religion, either way the religious will pay a lot of money for both.
Would you buy a book that told you that what you wanted to believe was in fact true?

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This is typical of someone that hasn't really had any education in Biblical history.

[serious] said:

Ok, agreed.

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Ok.

[serious] said:

How far of a hike?

If you accept micro, but not macro, I'd be curious what distinction you draw between them other than degree. Or alternatively, I suppose you could say the last 6000 years of evolution happened, but anything longer than that couldn't because your interpretation of the bible dictates that nothing older than 6000 years actually happened.

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Could you give me ten examples of macro evolution using evidence provided by science. What I mean is evidence that one type of organism evolved into another using scientific discovery excluding the whale. Thanks.

Here we go folks.

Take; 4,322

DogmaHunter said:

Like Maurice Bucaille. Only he said those things about the Quran.

You can find them in every religion if you look hard enough.

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This shows again that you know little about the Quran or the Bible.

Oncedeceived said:

Evolution doesn't explain how or why sex came about at all. Sex is one element in evolution that remains unexplained and even some think it doesn't seem to fit at all. Why go to all that trouble and necessity for two organisms to reproduce.

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Okay.

Thanks for the correction.

I was going to quote this verse as my trump card ...

1 Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

Oncedeceived said:

Evolution doesn't explain how or why sex came about at all.

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Except that it does.
There's real evolutionary advantage to sexual reproduction as well.
Quite a lot is known about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction

Oncedeceived said:

Could you give me ten examples of macro evolution using evidence provided by science. What I mean is evidence that one type of organism evolved into another using scientific discovery excluding the whale. Thanks.

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Why "excluding the whale"?
To devastating to your objections to macro evolution?

Here are a couple:
- human chromosome nr2: evidence of "macro divergence" of an ape ancestor into chimps and humans
- shared ERV's: evidence of "macro divergence" of ape ancestors into all the great apes (including humans).


You can turn your denial mode on now.

Oncedeceived said:

This shows again that you know little about the Quran or the Bible.

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Do you deny that Maurice Bucaille, a medical doctor, wrote a book explaining how mega accurate the Quran is scientifically?

Perhaps you should look it up.
This has nothing to do about my understanding (or lack thereof) concerning the bible or the quran, and everything to do with the fact that you can find "professionals" in every religion claiming how scientifically accurate that specific religion is.

It doesn't mean anything because on every occasion, one requires a "very specific" interpretation of the scripture in question to reverse match it to the actual scientific knowledge, given to us by science, not by religious scriptures.

In almost all cases I have been presented with, it required quite some psychological gymnastics to "match" the scriptures to the facts of reality.

Every time, I remain unimpressed.

AV1611VET said:

The store and the edifice across the country are not related.

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You can drive to the store, but you can't drive across the country? Really?

You must be one of those people who are able to put one foot in front of the other, but are completely baffled as to how you can walk to the curb.

In macroevolution, I drive to Store A, then I drive across the country to Store B and should find it related to Store A.

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In macroevolution, it is nothing more than repeated microevolutionary events, just as you repeatedly put one foot in front of the other to walk from your porch to the curb.

AV1611VET said:

Including Jesus?

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What do you know about Jesus? stories?

Oncedeceived said:

This is typical of someone that hasn't really had any education in Biblical history.

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What is biblical history? what part of the bible is history apart from some place names?

whois said:

i'm not sure science itself knows what the distinction is.

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They do. Microevolution is evolution within a population. Macroevolution is evolution at or above the level of the population (i.e. species).

only recently have they come up with a possible theory that could be empirically tested.

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Population genetics has been around for quite a while, and it has been used to measure genetic barriers between populations and the divergence of their genomes as part of macroevolution.

whois said:

from the review:
Lest Six Day Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates see Parker's book as support for their readings of Scripture, Parker is at pains to dismiss such arguments. In no way is he trying to suggest that Genesis 1 is a scientific account.

The dangers with a book like this is that in writing such an honest account of one's pondering about faith and the origin of life, the writer leaves himself open to criticism from absolutely everyone. Some scientists will critique his science, Christian's may critique his reading of Genesis, theologians might question his reading of Scripture and his understanding of God, and historians could question some of the historical analysis.

from the author:
But I must admit, rather nervously as a scientist averse to entertaining such an idea, that the evidence that the writer of the opening page of the Bible was divinely inspired is strong. I have never before encountered such powerful, impartial evidence to suggest that the Bible is the product of divine inspiration.

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Can you give us an example of how Genesis agrees with science?

It seems rather problematic that Genesis has the emergence of plants before there is even a sun. It also seems rather problematic that Genesis has the emergence of whales occurring before the emergence of land mammals. The science has just the opposite for those two.

Loudmouth said:

You can drive to the store, but you can't drive across the country? Really?

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Of course I can drive to both.

Where did you get the idea otherwise?

Loudmouth said:

You must be one of those people who are able to put one foot in front of the other, but are completely baffled as to how you can walk to the curb.

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Either that, or you misread what I said.

Loudmouth said:

In macroevolution, it is nothing more than repeated microevolutionary events, just as you repeatedly put one foot in front of the other to walk from your porch to the curb.

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I do not believe in macroevolution.

In macroevolution, once I got from the porch to the curb, I would have to observe that both the porch and the curb are related to each other somehow.

In other words, had there been no porch, there would be no curb.

Therefore it wouldn't matter if the curb was one baby-step away, or halfway across the galaxy.

The point would be the same: macroevolution is a joke.

Jan Volkes said:

What do you know about Jesus? stories?

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It's not how much of Him I know that really counts.

It's how much of me He knows.

Galatians 4:9a But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,

AV1611VET said:

I do not believe in macroevolution.

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If I said that I believed Pluto does not exist, would it disappear?

In macroevolution, once I got from the porch to the curb, I would have to observe that both the porch and the curb are related to each other somehow.

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They are related through each step that links them.

The point would be the same: macroevolution is a joke.

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When sticking your head in the sand doesn't work, insults are the next salvo.

Loudmouth said:

If I said that I believed Pluto does not exist, would it disappear?

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No, but then you would give up your right to call it our ninth ...

Oh, wait ... nevermind.

Loudmouth said:

They are related through each step that links them.

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No they are not.

Loudmouth said:

When sticking your head in the sand doesn't work, insults are the next salvo.

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What insult?

AV1611VET said:

Rachel Evans prioritized though.

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I think she prioritized a quest for honesty. Specifically in regards to this section topic, she went from fervently believing in Young Earth Creationism, accepting the false dogma that couldn't be a Christian and doubt it, and demonizing evolution to fully accepting and embracing it as she gained an education and allowed her mind to truly utilize it.

Artemis97 said:

I think she prioritized a quest for honesty.

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That's not what I meant.

Rachel Evans got saved first, then went backsliding.

At least YECs led her to Christ.

Some people who believe in evolution get saved, but don't give up their philosophy.

So they don't really backslide, per se.

AV1611VET said:

That's not what I meant.

Rachel Evans got saved first, then went backsliding.

At least YECs led her to Christ.

Some people who believe in evolution get saved, but don't give up their philosophy.

So they don't really backslide, per se.

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She was raised by Young Earth Creationists in a town that infamously rejects evolution because of fallacious ideology about it. Had she been raised by any of the majority of Christians who accept evolution as an explanation for the mechanisms of life and embrace Christ as the meaning of life, she wouldn't have undergone the intense conflict she experienced in young adulthood. She didn't "backslide." She advanced.

For most normal Christians, evolution has very little to do with their salvation.