White lives matter too......

Belk

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Source please!

http://www.bustle.com/articles/3609...-men-more-often-statistics-say-yes-absolutely

From the article
The cities with the greatest racial disparity in these shootings were New York, San Diego, and Las Vegas — in each of these cities, the percentage of black people killed was at least twice that of their percentage of the city's population. This means that if these statistics remained constant in 2010, when the percentage of black people in New York City was 25 percent, a whopping 50 percent of those killed in police shootings would have been of African American descent.

It's an "issue" because it's not true. When you look at the statistics, Blacks commit 52 percent of all homicides and are only 'gunned down' by police about 32 percent of the time. Meanwhile whites are gunned own almost as frequently as they commit murder (about 4 percent less often, but not 20 percent less).

Why are you comparing the number of murders they commit with the number of times they are killed by police? I fail to see how that is relevant? Unless you are claiming the two are linked?[/QUOTE]
 
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Michael

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Because police brutality is wrong, no matter who it happens to. When it is fought on the bases of race there are unfavorable consequences.
Whites ignoring the problem because they think it only happening to blacks.
Blacks hating whites because they believe it's only happening to blacks.
Whites saying if those blacks were busy working for a living instead of hang out and getting in trouble it wouldn't happen.
Blacks saying .....and on and on it goes.

What is happening across the country with police violence is serious and it needs to stop. Instead it's being turned into a racial war, that will go nowhere. What a gift to law enforcement, divide and conquer.

:oldthumbsup:

The *actual* problem is police brutality. That's where our attention should be.
 
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Michael

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The cities with the greatest racial disparity in these shootings were New York, San Diego, and Las Vegas — in each of these cities, the percentage of black people killed was at least twice that of their percentage of the city's population. This means that if these statistics remained constant in 2010, when the percentage of black people in New York City was 25 percent, a whopping 50 percent of those killed in police shootings would have been of African American descent.

That's a bogus statistic because it ignores the fact that the homicide rate is disproportionately committed by black offenders, so guess who the police have to go arrest disproportionately, and are more like to shoot disproportionately?

Why are you comparing the number of murders they commit with the number of times they are killed by police? I fail to see how that is relevant? Unless you are claiming the two are linked?

They are linked! If the police have to disproportionately arrest young black violent offenders, they're likely to be shooting them disproportionately too. It's common sense and simple statistics. Blacks often commit more than 1/2 of all murders, an *incredibly* skewed percentage compared to the general population in any given city, so it wouldn't shock me if they got shot disproportionately too. The police have to arrest the most violent segments of our society and blacks are disproportionately involved in violent crime, particularly murder.
 
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Crowns&Laurels

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That's a bogus statistic because it ignores the fact that the homicide rate is disproportionately committed by black offenders, so guess who the police have to go arrest disproportionately, and are more like to shoot disproportionately?



They are linked! If the police have to disproportionately arrest young black violent offenders, they're likely to be shooting them disproportionately too. It's common sense and simple statistics. Blacks often commit more than 1/2 of all murders, and *incredibly* skewed percentage compared to the general population in any given city, so it wouldn't shock me if they got shot disproportionately too. The police have to arrest the most violent segments of our society and blacks are disproportionately involved in violent crime.

We live in a country where we are supposed to simply ignore the fact that every big town and city is surrounded by black gangs and criminal enterprises.
Bringing it up marks you as 'racist'.
Political correctness is the wrench in the gears of reality, distorting the projection.
 
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Maynard Keenan

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That's a bogus statistic because it ignores the fact that the homicide rate is disproportionately committed by black offenders, so guess who the police have to go arrest disproportionately, and are more like to shoot disproportionately?



They are linked! If the police have to disproportionately arrest young black violent offenders, they're likely to be shooting them disproportionately too. It's common sense and simple statistics. Blacks often commit more than 1/2 of all murders, an *incredibly* skewed percentage compared to the general population in any given city, so it wouldn't shock me if they got shot disproportionately too. The police have to arrest the most violent segments of our society and blacks are disproportionately involved in violent crime, particularly murder.

Why do you keep pretending like murder is the only kind of violent crime, or the only kind of crime police will be arresting people for? The vast, vast majority of police encounters aren't related to murders, so I don't understand why the relative murder rate of black vs white Americans has anything to do with how frequently police shoot someone. Even if you only look at violent crime arrests, 97.8% are for something other than murder, What exactly do Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Samuel Dubose, Walter Scott or any of the other unarmed men who had not killed anyone have to do with the roughly 1 out of 8000 black people arrested for murder in a year (based on homicide arrests, us population, and percentage of population that is black)?

Now, you could look at killed-by-police data and find that, using 2014 numbers posted earlier in this thread that 36% of people killed by police were black, or using the Guadian's 2015 count that 28% of known-race victims have been black. You could compare this to the 37% of violent crime arrestees that are black and conclude that police aren't more likely to shoot a suspect that is black, they are just more likely to encounter a black suspect. This is a somewhat reasonable conclusion and no doubt explains at least part of the discrepancy. It does, however, neglect encounters with police that are for non-violent crime - again, Garner, Dubose, and Scott are all examples of this. I'll except Tamir Rice since a caller to police had said he was pointing guns at people, even if cops found him doing no such thing. And going back to the Guardian's database, there is one very curious data point - there were 60 unarmed black people killed by police (40% of those unarmed with a known race) compared to 62 unarmed white people. This subset of the data suggests that there may be a racial bias component as well, with unarmed black suspects disproportionately likely to be killed by police.
 
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fizzygiraffe

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All lives matter.
It just so happens there are radicals that, while espousing the superior rights that should be accorded their life, which they label with their race preceding that, and in so doing demonstrate their personal and collective racism, don't believe any life but those of "their people" count.

And in that way demonstrate they are opposed to all others who have lives, but are of a different race than the one they state matters most.

Such as the movement that catapults their racism using the assault label; white privilege.

State and Federal department of Justice files would quickly dispel any notion of such a thing as that. Further, that there is one poor white person anywhere in America, or who is homeless, dispels the notion as well.

The slur is born from a limited consciousness that thinks to cast aspursions on others while denying the reality of crime and apathy itself.
Blacks are more populace in American prisons because juries put them there.
They're not alone there however. There is every race of person sharing cells throughout all of America.

There's a racist native Indian movement that uses the same excuse; white privilege. And that movements activists hate Caucasian people, hate America, and hate life itself because they're so full of hate living in a country they hate, populated by the people they hate.
My sister is a moderator of a Christian chat site. One of the native Indian activist members they had registered there was so offensive on that forum spewing their anti-American, anti-Caucasian , "whine because I'm red" rhetoric, as the Moderators in their private Q called it, that they banned her for life.
I've no idea where that member went after that but that they were forbidden to remain in a forum where there were posts made hoping to help the angry demonic spirit that fed their hate and devoured their soul, is pathetic quite frankly.

All life matters!

When hate manufacturers its own language to make a public declaration that only one kind of life matters it is a terribly sad day in the diversely populated landscape of America. Where all colors and all cultures, all races, live within borders who's national label beings with, United.
 
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TerranceL

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I thought it was pretty clear that 'black lives matter' implies 'black lives matter too', not 'only black lives matter'.
You would have a point, but the BLM people seem to think that the phrase, "All lives matter" is racist so it's pretty clear that they don't.
 
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TerranceL

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Are you implying that black people commit twice the violent crime of white people? Because white men actually account for 69% of violent crime arrests nationwide. If it matched violent crime statistics, and cops actually went after criminals, you'd find a lot more white deaths than black ones.
Cops do kill more whites than blacks.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...e-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/?page=all
An analysis released last week shows that more white people died at the hands of law enforcement than those of any other race in the last two years, even as the Justice Department, social-justice groups and media coverage focus on black victims of police force.

Meanwhile, the deaths of whites at the hands of law enforcement typically receive less attention, even when the case is shrouded in controversy. For example, Gilbert Collar, an 18-year-old white student at the University of South Alabama, was shot and killed while naked, unarmed and under the influence of drugs by a black police officer.

The officer, Trevis Austin, was cleared of wrongdoing in 2013 by a Mobile County grand jury in a case that received little media coverage outside Alabama. Mr. Collar’s parents filed a federal lawsuit last year against the officer.

As researchers are quick to point out, FBI data on police shootings by race is notoriously incomplete, which may explain why Peter Moskos, assistant professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York, decided to use figures from the website Killed by Police.

Mr. Moskos reported that roughly 49 percent of those killed by officers from May 2013 to April 2015 were white, while 30 percent were black. He also found that 19 percent were Hispanic and 2 percent were Asian and other races.

His results, posted last week on his blog Cop in the Hood, arrived with several caveats, notably that 25 percent of the website’s data, which is drawn largely from news reports, failed to show the race of the person killed.

Killed by Police lists every death, justified or not, including those in which the officer had been wounded or acted in self-defense.

“The data doesn’t indicate which shootings are justified (the vast majority) and which are cold-blooded murder (not many, but some). And maybe that would vary by race. I don’t know, but I doubt it,” Mr. Moskos said on his blog.

Adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown of the U.S. population, he said black men are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by police than white men. But also adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown in violent crime, the data actually show that police are less likely to kill black suspects than white ones.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Why do you keep pretending like murder is the only kind of violent crime, or the only kind of crime police will be arresting people for? The vast, vast majority of police encounters aren't related to murders, so I don't understand why the relative murder rate of black vs white Americans has anything to do with how frequently police shoot someone. Even if you only look at violent crime arrests, 97.8% are for something other than murder,

You'll find that the numbers for rape, robbery and other violent crimes tell much the same story.
 
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Michael

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Why do you keep pretending like murder is the only kind of violent crime, or the only kind of crime police will be arresting people for?

The same disproportionate statistics apply to violent crime in general as well as arrests. Pick your violent crime and it's going to be about the same disproportionate number. The arrest rate is therefore going to be disproportionate, along with the shooting percentages.

The vast, vast majority of police encounters aren't related to murders, so I don't understand why the relative murder rate of black vs white Americans has anything to do with how frequently police shoot someone.

Well for starters the black community is killing more whites while playing the role of victim and trying to claim it's a racial inequality problem rather than a police brutality problem. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Even if you only look at violent crime arrests, 97.8% are for something other than murder, What exactly do Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Samuel Dubose, Walter Scott or any of the other unarmed men who had not killed anyone have to do with the roughly 1 out of 8000 black people arrested for murder in a year (based on homicide arrests, us population, and percentage of population that is black)?

Exactly which forms of crime are you claiming are split exactly down population racial lines and are the same as population racial lines? Certainly in terms of violent crimes and the number of *armed* individuals shot by police, the disproportionate number is proportional to whom the police are after in the first place.

Now, you could look at killed-by-police data and find that, using 2014 numbers posted earlier in this thread that 36% of people killed by police were black, or using the Guadian's 2015 count that 28% of known-race victims have been black. You could compare this to the 37% of violent crime arrestees that are black and conclude that police aren't more likely to shoot a suspect that is black, they are just more likely to encounter a black suspect. This is a somewhat reasonable conclusion and no doubt explains at least part of the discrepancy.

That's my whole point in fact. They're more likely to encounter a black suspect, so the shooting percentages are likely to be skewed in pretty much the same fashion.

It does, however, neglect encounters with police that are for non-violent crime - again, Garner, Dubose, and Scott are all examples of this. I'll except Tamir Rice since a caller to police had said he was pointing guns at people, even if cops found him doing no such thing.

But it's not as though such incidents only happen to black individuals. As my opening post points out, white young unarmed men are also killed by police. I do not condone police brutality in any form, regardless of the color of anyone's skin. They are however the 'exceptions' not the rule. Most police shootings are justified and in fact human beings commit suicide by cop all the time.

And going back to the Guardian's database, there is one very curious data point - there were 60 unarmed black people killed by police (40% of those unarmed with a known race) compared to 62 unarmed white people. This subset of the data suggests that there may be a racial bias component as well, with unarmed black suspects disproportionately likely to be killed by police.

But again, it all comes back to the number of encounters, not necessarily any specific racial component.

If however there actually is a racially motivated statistic that bears being scrutinized, it's the disproportionate amount of violent crime perpetrated by blacks on whites, not the other way around. Statistically speaking, you're barking up the wrong tree and pointing fingers at the wrong race. We don't even know how many of those 62 unarmed black men were shot by white police officers, so how do you know there is any racial inequality in the first place? All we ever hear about in the media are the cases where black men are killed by white officers. We never hear about black men shot by black police officers, or white men shot by any police officer of any color!
 
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Michael

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.... What exactly do Tamir Rice, Eric Garner,....

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...in-nyc-chokehold-death.7854590/#post-66715346
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...in-nyc-chokehold-death.7854590/#post-66715397

For the record, I was more than a little upset at what happened to Eric Garner and I commented on it publicly. If ever there was an example of excessive use of force on a human being, by a police officer, that was it. I take them all on a case by case basis. Even in that particular case I seriously doubt that the police officer was actually a racist, even though I would have supported a manslaughter charge against him for *police brutality* and excessive use of force. My anger also had absolutely nothing to do with the color of anyone's skin.
 
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classicalhero

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Eric Garner was arrested by a multi-racial group officers. While his death was tragic, he knew he was going to be arrested and resisted arrest. After that bad things are gong to happen to you. Compounded by the fact the he was extremely obese with many health issues he should have complied with police orders.
 
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Vylo

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Eric Garner was arrested by a multi-racial group officers. While his death was tragic, he knew he was going to be arrested and resisted arrest. After that bad things are gong to happen to you. Compounded by the fact the he was extremely obese with many health issues he should have complied with police orders.
He pulled his hands back like any person with a pulse would do. He didn't try to hit any of the officers, and choke holds are against policy unless an officer is at risk of imminent harm which none of them were.

Garner was straight up murdered by negligence. It's a shame he's getting lumped in with thugs like Brown, and even that kid that shot at officers on the anniversary. Garner just sold some cigerattes under the table. He wasn't some hardened criminal.
 
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Michael

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Eric Garner was arrested by a multi-racial group officers. While his death was tragic, he knew he was going to be arrested and resisted arrest. After that bad things are gong to happen to you. Compounded by the fact the he was extremely obese with many health issues he should have complied with police orders.

He wasn't acting violently toward the police, and I never accused the officers involved of acting based on racial motivation. The one officer did however elect to put a choke hold on Mr. Garner for simply selling individual cigarettes because somehow the city got stiffed out of the excess taxes they wanted to collect from his "profit" on the sale apparently. Mr. Garner can also be heard saying "I can't breath" over ten different times while on the ground during that arrest and yet the officer in question kept choking him out anyway while he was on the ground already, and nobody checked on him or helped him when he went limp. That was just an over the top use of force considering the so called 'crime'. Even what you're calling "resisting arrest" amounts to him simply moving away from the officers. It didn't warrant a choke hold in the first place, and the choke hold should never have continued while he was on the ground saying that he couldn't breath!
 
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ranunculus

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What you mean besides saying that saying that "all lives matter" is racist?

You would have a point, but the BLM people seem to think that the phrase, "All lives matter" is racist so it's pretty clear that they don't.

That doesn't mean white lives don't matter. That's just a reaction to the attempts at obfuscating the issue.

If you wanted to address the problem of male on male rape. But some feminists came in and tried to shut down the conversation by saying, "Women get raped too, you know". And you said, "Wait, I'm talking about a different issue". And then they call you a misogynist.

"Why are you trying to address only male on male rape? Don't you know all rape matters?"
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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It's really hard to watch this sort of behavior from an entire *group* of people who sat and watched this behavior and yet did nothing about it. Are these the same individuals claiming that only 'black lives matter'?


:oldthumbsup:

The *actual* problem is police brutality. That's where our attention should be.

Hmmm then what does that video have to do with it?
 
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Michael

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Hmmm then what does that video have to do with it?

From my perspective it graphically demonstrates the hypocrisy of blacks being the single most prolific perpetrators of racial violence upon other races, while publicly and arrogantly pretending to be is greatest victim.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ld-ferguson-girl-killed-while-doing-homework/

If black lives matter so much to black activists, they should begin by taking a cold hard look in the mirror and ending the violence they inflict upon each other, as well as upon every other race. They are the most prolific perpetrators of violence upon everyone, including and most especially upon themselves.
 
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