Why does everyone think Evolution contradicts Creationism?

joshua 1 9

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A video is not scientific evidence.
The research he did is the evidence.
The video just talks about the results of his research which is all published in peer reviewed journals.
 
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Songsmith

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Do you think knowledge is something that can be demonstrated?
Do you believe in loaded questions? :) Some forms of knowledge can be demonstrated. Some cannot.

Do you know that you love your __________(mother and father, wife, brother or sister, kids, etc.)? Even if you know it, and can demonstrate it sometimes, you also get angry with them (I'm sorry for the presumption, it's just for the sake of discussion) and demonstrate to the eyes of all the world that you don't love them by what you say about them. You can know it and it can be true, yet there are times where the opposite of the truth is demonstrated.

More objective truths can be demonstrated, usually. But evolution cannot be demonstrated at all. A theory can be proposed that seems to fit the evidence, but without a visual of the act in progress (which we do not now have, nor can it be found in the fossil record) it can't actually be demonstrated.
 
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Loudmouth

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Do you believe in loaded questions? :) Some forms of knowledge can be demonstrated. Some cannot.

What forms of knowledge can not be demonstrated, and how do they differ from fiction?

Do you know that you love your __________(mother and father, wife, brother or sister, kids, etc.)?

The difference being that I can demonstrate that those people exist. When people start claiming to love invisible people that no one can demonstrate to exist, it isn't the same thing.

But evolution cannot be demonstrated at all. A theory can be proposed that seems to fit the evidence, but without a visual of the act in progress (which we do not now have, nor can it be found in the fossil record) it can't actually be demonstrated.

We can demonstrate that the evidence is consistent with the theory. We are asking you to do the same thing with your claims.
 
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Songsmith

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What forms of knowledge can not be demonstrated, and how do they differ from fiction?

Love. You can't demonstrate it. You may know it to be true, but you can't prove it to anyone. Ever. Why? Because you will eventually do something that makes a person that you love feel unloved.


The difference being that I can demonstrate that those people exist. When people start claiming to love invisible people that no one can demonstrate to exist, it isn't the same thing.
Who cares if you can demonstrate they exist? Prove that Alexander the Great existed. You can't do it. You have word of mouth evidence that he did, but you have more people claiming to have experienced God today than you have historical accounts of Alexander the Great. If you are willing to dismiss the accounts of those living people who have had encounters with God then you must, yep, must, dismiss the lesser evidence of those who are not living who claimed to have been telling the story of Alexander.



We can demonstrate that the evidence is consistent with the theory. We are asking you to do the same thing with your claims.
That's just it. You can't fit the evidence to the theory. There is not one intermediate form of any animal that has ever been found. There is not one living today that we can put our peepers on. Show me one example of a dog changing species to a cat, or bird, or anything other than a dog. It has never happened and there is no evidence to show that it has.
 
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The Cadet

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The studies show that there is very little man does to actually add years to the lives of people with disease.

If you'd like to have an earnest discussion of the medical research I'd be glad to do that. However, you'd need to, you know, actually have an earnest discussion of the medical research. It would behoove you to actually bring up peer-reviewed papers; preferably ones published in the last decade or so, and not constantly bring up the non-peer-reviewed work of one particular doctor whose theories are wildly contentious and not widely accepted, nor has nothing to do with the malady I brought up. I was talking about cancer. Not heart disease. The scientific literature demonstrates beyond any reasonable doubt that the modern treatment modalities for cancer work.
 
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Astrophile

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Who cares if you can demonstrate they exist? Prove that Alexander the Great existed. You can't do it. You have word of mouth evidence that he did, but you have more people claiming to have experienced God today than you have historical accounts of Alexander the Great. If you are willing to dismiss the accounts of those living people who have had encounters with God then you must, yep, must, dismiss the lesser evidence of those who are not living who claimed to have been telling the story of Alexander.

Would it make any difference to most of us if Alexander turned out to be as mythical as, say, Hercules, Romulus and Remus, or Helen of Troy? I don't think it would. However, it would make a great deal of difference to many people's lives if it turned out that the god that they worship is equally mythical.
 
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Loudmouth

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Love. You can't demonstrate it.

Yes, I can. You can demonstrate emotion using methods such as fMRI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_magnetic_resonance_imaging

We can also demonstrate that the people who produce emotional responses actually exist.

Who cares if you can demonstrate they exist?

I do.

You don't care if God actually exists?

Prove that Alexander the Great existed. You can't do it.

I don't worship Alexander the Great and claim that he does exist.


That's just it. You can't fit the evidence to the theory. There is not one intermediate form of any animal that has ever been found.

Found them for you.

toskulls2.jpg


Show me one example of a dog changing species to a cat, or bird, or anything other than a dog. It has never happened and there is no evidence to show that it has.

If a dog turned into a cat or a bird, or anything other than a dog, it would DISPROVE evolution.

It appears that you don't understand what evolution is.
 
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joshua 1 9

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If you'd like to have an earnest discussion of the medical research I'd be glad to do that.
There is no need to. Go to youtube and listen to one of the many video that Dr Ornish has on there. I have NOTHING to add to what he is saying. I should just post the link and let people see for themselves first hand because information can only be lost by me repeating what he is saying.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Do you understand why a dog turning into a bird would disprove evolution?
No No one has a better story - theory. So evolution will be around until someone comes up with something better.

Don't you find it strange when creationist after creationist demands that evolution be disproven before they will accept it?
You can not disprove evidence. You can only comment on it. They can accept or reject your opinion but the evidence remains evidence for the next person that wants to come along and make up a story about it. This is a game people play. Here is an object lets all make up a story about the object then we will vote on what story we like the best. It's just basic human nature.
 
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Loudmouth

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No No one has a better story - theory. So evolution will be around until someone comes up with something better.

Do you even understand what the difference is between a story and a scientific theory? Do you understand why evolution is a scientific theory, and not just a story?
 
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The Cadet

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There is no need to. Go to youtube and listen to one of the many video that Dr Ornish has on there. I have NOTHING to add to what he is saying. I should just post the link and let people see for themselves first hand because information can only be lost by me repeating what he is saying.

Ornish's methodology has come under a lot of fire. Even if it were entirely reasonable, it is still very much outdated. His opinion in the public sphere is not the same thing as published, peer-reviewed science papers. In short: I have very little interest in your video link. If you have the original research by him in PubMed, I could take a look at that.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Ornish's methodology has come under a lot of fire. Even if it were entirely reasonable, it is still very much outdated. His opinion in the public sphere is not the same thing as published, peer-reviewed science papers. In short: I have very little interest in your video link. If you have the original research by him in PubMed, I could take a look at that.
If you do not want to follow his program then what program do you feel is better?
He recommends diet, exercise and stress control, what do you recommend?
McDonalds, Arbys, and Burger King for longevity?
With a little Taco bell on the side?

The point is they are killing people and science is not blowing the trumpet
to warn people that their life is in danger from eating that food.
 
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bhsmte

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Do you believe in loaded questions? :) Some forms of knowledge can be demonstrated. Some cannot.

Do you know that you love your __________(mother and father, wife, brother or sister, kids, etc.)? Even if you know it, and can demonstrate it sometimes, you also get angry with them (I'm sorry for the presumption, it's just for the sake of discussion) and demonstrate to the eyes of all the world that you don't love them by what you say about them. You can know it and it can be true, yet there are times where the opposite of the truth is demonstrated.

More objective truths can be demonstrated, usually. But evolution cannot be demonstrated at all. A theory can be proposed that seems to fit the evidence, but without a visual of the act in progress (which we do not now have, nor can it be found in the fossil record) it can't actually be demonstrated.

What do you think others should do with this knowledge that can not be demonstrated, if they don't agree with you?
 
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bhsmte

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If you do not want to follow his program then what program do you feel is better?
He recommends diet, exercise and stress control, what do you recommend?
McDonalds, Arbys, and Burger King for longevity?
With a little Taco bell on the side?

The point is they are killing people and science is not blowing the trumpet
to warn people that their life is in danger from eating that food.

Where have you been? Science has been telling people to eat fruits, vegetables and lean meats for decades?
 
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The Cadet

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If you do not want to follow his program then what program do you feel is better?
He recommends diet, exercise and stress control, what do you recommend?
McDonalds, Arbys, and Burger King for longevity?
With a little Taco bell on the side?

There is not a nutritionist on the planet who would not tell you that the standard American diet, high in fats, carbohydrates, and processed foods, is bad for you. Ornish was not the first person nor the last to say this. The idea that it's either his way or the highway is nonsensical. What does this have to do with cancer survival rates, again? Ornish's program is probably better than what the average low-income family eats. But whether its more extravagant claims about heart disease hold up is an entirely different question! Let alone what this says about all of modern medicine.

The point is they are killing people and science is not blowing the trumpet
to warn people that their life is in danger from eating that food.

Science has been blowing that trumpet since long before Ornish proposed his diet.
 
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Astrophile

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Who cares if you can demonstrate they exist? Prove that Alexander the Great existed. You can't do it. You have word of mouth evidence that he did, but you have more people claiming to have experienced God today than you have historical accounts of Alexander the Great. If you are willing to dismiss the accounts of those living people who have had encounters with God then you must, yep, must, dismiss the lesser evidence of those who are not living who claimed to have been telling the story of Alexander.

First, this sort of argument can be used to prove the validity of any religion, not just Christianity, and of any denomination of Christianity.

Second, there are probably more people who claim to have been abducted by aliens in flying saucers than people who could mount convincing arguments for the historicity of Alexander the Great. Do you think that this is evidence for the reality of alien abductions?

Third, your favourite book confirms the historicity of Alexander; see Daniel 8:5-8, 21 and I Maccabees 1:1-8.
 
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