curse of one's father.

Imagican · Aug 7, 2015

In the OT, it is stated that the sins of a father can be passed down to their children for generations.
This isn't a debate, it's meant to be a discussion concerning the TRUTH.
Now, when this was written, should the children FIGHT against the curse of their father or ENDURE it. You know, the Bible ALSO TELLS US that we are NOT who determines our SHAPE, we are but the CLAY. It is the POTTER, (God), that TRULY determines out SHAPE.
So, wouldn't it be the proper path, even if one UNDERSTOOD that they were being punished for their father's SINS, if they HONORED their father, (and their mother), shouldn't they WILLING accept the punishment and STILL do the best they can in every aspect of their lives?
For instance, (and this is JUST speculation or an EXAMPLE that is NOT MEANT to be literal in ANY SENSE), what if the curse of Cain was DARK skin and the physical attributes of Africans. BLACK Africans. instead of FIGHTING the 'curse' by insisting on EQUALITY, wouldn't it be BETTER to simply ACCEPT the curse and DEAL with it in the manner that the Bible instructs them? Shouldn't they be THANKFUL for LIFE no matter what position in life they are GIVEN?
And then what does the Bible TELL us about those that will LOVE God through His Son? It tells us that they will be PERSECUTED simply by acceptance of the NAME of God's Son. That if we FOLLOW His Son, we will be PUNISHED by this world in myriad manner.
So, how MUCH fighting for our PERSONAL 'rights' can we DO before we are completely going AGAINST God's Word. Not ONCE did Jesus FIGHT for His RIGHTS. He WILLINGLY allowed his enemies to treat him however they deemed fit and never ONCE started preaching RIGHTS. Never ONCE took up arms to insure He was treated FAIRLY.
So how MUCH can one FIGHT for their RIGHTS, how much can one ignore the example Christ offered before they become ANYTHING BUT a TRUE follower?
Blessings,

MEC

FlyingTurtle · Aug 7, 2015

Hm... Jeremiah 31:29-30 says

29 “In those days people will no longer say,
‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

So I kinda think God dealt with generational curses already on the cross.

But I agree, fighting for rights and stuff like that can often go against what God wants. God doesn't promise us good times and rights. He promises us hard times and persecution.

timewerx · Aug 7, 2015

This phenomenon has a solid foundation in modern scientific principles but only discussed in limited scope due to the potential to erupt in heated race-related debates.

We have tangible data to support the possibility of out-breeding bad behavior in humans by a similar process used in dog-breeding for example. But if you even try to suggest it, you'll be accused of being a "Eugenics Nazi".

RC1970 · Aug 7, 2015

Speaking to Christians, Peter said:

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation." ~ 1 Peter 2:9-12

Imagican · Aug 8, 2015

FlyingTurtle said:
Hm... Jeremiah 31:29-30 says

29 “In those days people will no longer say,
‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

So I kinda think God dealt with generational curses already on the cross.

But I agree, fighting for rights and stuff like that can often go against what God wants. God doesn't promise us good times and rights. He promises us hard times and persecution.

Ok, I STATED from the onset that I was referring to the OT.
But I find it refreshing that YOU are able to agree that oftentimes our FIGHTS for FREEDOM and to have things OUR way can and DOES contradict what the 'follower' has been instructed concerning GOD'S WILL, not OUR OWN.
Blessings,
MEC

Imagican · Aug 8, 2015

timewerx said:
This phenomenon has a solid foundation in modern scientific principles but only discussed in limited scope due to the potential to erupt in heated race-related debates.

We have tangible data to support the possibility of out-breeding bad behavior in humans by a similar process used in dog-breeding for example. But if you even try to suggest it, you'll be accused of being a "Eugenics Nazi".

timewerx, What an intelligent young man. Your responses are often HEART wrenching, and then utterly inspiration.
I can only commend you for NOT allowing the views of this world to TAINT your understanding of the TRUTH. You have been blessed in ways you probably don't even understand yet.
Blessings,
MEC

Imagican · Aug 8, 2015

Christus Discipulus said:
Speaking to Christians, Peter said:

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation." ~ 1 Peter 2:9-12

GOOD STUFF!!!!
For it is NOT about pleasing ourselves or the world around us for the sake of the FLESH. It is about being faithful followers of the TRUTH even when it is painful or hurtful to ourselves. If Christ was willing to SUFFER and DIE for us, isn't the least we should do is follow the example in the LITTLE things in our lives? And the MORE faithful we become, even the BIG things in our lives?
But how few are able to stand when the going get the least uncomfortable?
If it is GOD's will that we suffer in order to find our way, isn't that BETTER than trying to RUN away from any discomfort and try and hide in the bosom of THIS WORLD?
See, that's my point, what if, in order to SAVE a people, it is God's understanding and WILL that they SUFFER for their salvation? Yet that same people may well be BLINDED to God's truth and rebel at every turn. Insisting that they SHOULD NOT suffer for ANY reason. You know, WHAT ABOUT MY RIGHTS? Yet I don't recall God granting ANY man ANY rights other than to serve Him in RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Blessings,
MEC

timewerx · Aug 9, 2015

Imagican said:
timewerx, What an intelligent young man. Your responses are often HEART wrenching, and then utterly inspiration.
I can only commend you for NOT allowing the views of this world to TAINT your understanding of the TRUTH. You have been blessed in ways you probably don't even understand yet.
Blessings,
MEC

Likewise! Actually, I'm almost 34 MEC!

God had a big hand in it. I was 12 when I chose madness over sanity! (I'm speaking metaphorically, not literally!). It all started when staring at a big dark cloud.

I think one day, we'll find a solution to the world's problems and even solve poverty permanently. Our goal should not be about getting ahead of others but to get ahead together.

DamianWarS · Aug 10, 2015

Imagican said:
In the OT, it is stated that the sins of a father can be passed down to their children for generations.
This isn't a debate, it's meant to be a discussion concerning the TRUTH.
Now, when this was written, should the children FIGHT against the curse of their father or ENDURE it. You know, the Bible ALSO TELLS US that we are NOT who determines our SHAPE, we are but the CLAY. It is the POTTER, (God), that TRULY determines out SHAPE.
So, wouldn't it be the proper path, even if one UNDERSTOOD that they were being punished for their father's SINS, if they HONORED their father, (and their mother), shouldn't they WILLING accept the punishment and STILL do the best they can in every aspect of their lives?
For instance, (and this is JUST speculation or an EXAMPLE that is NOT MEANT to be literal in ANY SENSE), what if the curse of Cain was DARK skin and the physical attributes of Africans. BLACK Africans. instead of FIGHTING the 'curse' by insisting on EQUALITY, wouldn't it be BETTER to simply ACCEPT the curse and DEAL with it in the manner that the Bible instructs them? Shouldn't they be THANKFUL for LIFE no matter what position in life they are GIVEN?
And then what does the Bible TELL us about those that will LOVE God through His Son? It tells us that they will be PERSECUTED simply by acceptance of the NAME of God's Son. That if we FOLLOW His Son, we will be PUNISHED by this world in myriad manner.
So, how MUCH fighting for our PERSONAL 'rights' can we DO before we are completely going AGAINST God's Word. Not ONCE did Jesus FIGHT for His RIGHTS. He WILLINGLY allowed his enemies to treat him however they deemed fit and never ONCE started preaching RIGHTS. Never ONCE took up arms to insure He was treated FAIRLY.
So how MUCH can one FIGHT for their RIGHTS, how much can one ignore the example Christ offered before they become ANYTHING BUT a TRUE follower?
Blessings,

MEC

there is still one generational curse that we for sure all have and it is the curse of Adam. Our response to this curse is not to just accept it but to seek restoration through Christ.

But redemption is not out "right" nor is any other perceived "right" we may think we have from a biblical perspective. Socially or our civil rights are about us vs society and has nothing to do with God. This doesn't make them wrong but because they are not God focused can be conflicting in nature. The bible speaks of slave to submit to master perspective rather than salve to revolt for his rights.

Taking a stand with society always runs the risk of leaving God out of the picture, it's like God and politics. Since the end to civil rights is not interested in God it can go against God's design. We can still stand up for rights but we still need to make sure we give God glory through those stands and understand these "rights" are man designed in nature not God designed.

AHH who-stole-my-name · Aug 10, 2015

FlyingTurtle said:
Hm... Jeremiah 31:29-30 says

29 “In those days people will no longer say,
‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

So I kinda think God dealt with generational curses already on the cross.

But I agree, fighting for rights and stuff like that can often go against what God wants. God doesn't promise us good times and rights. He promises us hard times and persecution.

Agreed. Someone once told me that the Bible needed updated, but It was already updated when Jesus died.

AHH who-stole-my-name · Aug 10, 2015

timewerx said:
Likewise! Actually, I'm almost 34 MEC!

Good grief I feel old!. ^_^

Imagican · Aug 11, 2015

DamianWarS said:
there is still one generational curse that we for sure all have and it is the curse of Adam. Our response to this curse is not to just accept it but to seek restoration through Christ.

But redemption is not out "right" nor is any other perceived "right" we may think we have from a biblical perspective. Socially or our civil rights are about us vs society and has nothing to do with God. This doesn't make them wrong but because they are not God focused can be conflicting in nature. The bible speaks of slave to submit to master perspective rather than salve to revolt for his rights.

Taking a stand with society always runs the risk of leaving God out of the picture, it's like God and politics. Since the end to civil rights is not interested in God it can go against God's design. We can still stand up for rights but we still need to make sure we give God glory through those stands and understand these "rights" are man designed in nature not God designed.

See, that's what I'm talking about. Society often takes a direction that is utterly SELF instead of GOD'S will. And even the 'churches' TEACH this direction. Encouraging that congregation to VOTE, (which is about as WORLDLY an act one could participate in in MY opinion), teaching WORLD PEACE, (which is contrary to the very WORDS of Christ).
What about those that believe actually FOLLOWING what it is that they SAY they believe? It would seem that the TRUTH constantly takes a 'back seat' to one's DESIRES. And even those that profess to be followers are more often INFLUENCED by 'this world' than God through His Son. And then seek any method imaginable to JUSTIFY their 'faith' or LACK thereof.
It would SEEM from observation from a perspective of TRUTH that the 'falling away' is practically COMPLETE.
Blessings,
MEC

Imagican · Aug 11, 2015

AHH who-stole-my-name said:
Good grief I feel old!.

ME TOO.
But what a WISE 'young man' timewerx truly is. When I was that age I was JUST coming to the realization that there was something BIGGER to the truth. That's about the age that I STARTED studying the Bible. Spent most of the previous years in pursuit of utter SELF satisfaction. I was certainly the
'typical child of THIS WORLD'. Totally oblivious to the concerns of others. It was ALL about my personal pursuit of HAPPINESS with little if any regard towards the TRUTH.
But I have to admit, DUE to that recognition, I have tried to work even harder at studying God's Word in order to MAKE UP for LOST ground. For once the TRUTH was revealed, I couldn't get ENOUGH of it. Very PAINFUL transition but one that has been well worth the effort. Not an easy thing to do: completely ALTER or ALLOW one's COMPLETE understanding to BE altered when they have reached such an age of maturity, (or immaturity). Timewerx has been fortunate enough to have come to the truth at an earlier age. Can only be a GOOD thing.
Blessings,
MEC

DamianWarS · Aug 11, 2015

Imagican said:
See, that's what I'm talking about. Society often takes a direction that is utterly SELF instead of GOD'S will. And even the 'churches' TEACH this direction. Encouraging that congregation to VOTE, (which is about as WORLDLY an act one could participate in in MY opinion), teaching WORLD PEACE, (which is contrary to the very WORDS of Christ).
What about those that believe actually FOLLOWING what it is that they SAY they believe? It would seem that the TRUTH constantly takes a 'back seat' to one's DESIRES. And even those that profess to be followers are more often INFLUENCED by 'this world' than God through His Son. And then seek any method imaginable to JUSTIFY their 'faith' or LACK thereof.
It would SEEM from observation from a perspective of TRUTH that the 'falling away' is practically COMPLETE.
Blessings,
MEC

Voting is a civil right and I see nothing wrong with it. We may not be 'of' the world but we are still called to be in the world. Rejecting society is only going to estrange you from society and the gospel will suffer because your message will be about the weird guy that doesn't vote or believe in world peace rather that chirst.

We have to figure out how to live in the world while still engaged in our culture to be effective for christ. You should pick your battles and learn what issues are important. For example speaking against world peace is not going to communicate the message of christ very effectively regardless of the actual fate of the world. Change the conversation to something that doesn't estrange you from your mission while still giving glory to God.

Imagican · Aug 18, 2015

Really? I couldn't disagree more. Your comments seem more some sort of NEO 'Christianity' that is totally contrary to the Bible. The Bible tells us not to even sit and EAT with someone LIVING IN sin. It also tells us that a little yeast will leaven the entire measure of flour.
You are WRONG. It is NOT what 'Christians' are TAUGHT to try and CHANGE this world. This world CANNOT be changed EXCEPT by God and His Son. If you THINK you are more capable than God or His Son, then you certainly aren't FOLLOWING them. You are trying to be a LEADER of this world.
The Bible CLEARLY states that before the return of Christ, there MUST be a 'falling away' FIRST. You would indicate that this is somehow in error. That those that confess to be followers are capable of PREVENTING the inevitable so far as what we have been offered in Revelation through God's Word.
Our 'battles' are not against 'abortion' or 'world peace', they are against principalities and powers in HIGH places. We battle for our very souls. And the ONLY way we can WIN the battle is AVOID getting caught up in this WORLD or WORLDLY pursuits. We are to stay on the PROPER path and that path is NOT taking part in WORLDLY pursuits. It is a STRAIGHT and NARROW path that FEW will ever FIND and even FEWER will FOLLOW.
Now, if you truly believe that what you have offered is God's will, then SHOW us through scripture. If you can't, then it is obvious that it is merely YOUR beliefs in contradiction to the very Word of God. So instead of trying to argue the point using YOUR rationality, SHOW us the scriptures that would instruct us in the manner YOU have offered.
Blessings,
MEC

Imagican · Aug 18, 2015

Oh, and let me add again: What you have offered is about as FAR away from Christianity, according to the Bible, as POSSIBLE.
Blessings,
MEC

DamianWarS · Aug 23, 2015

Imagican said:
Oh, and let me add again: What you have offered is about as FAR away from Christianity, according to the Bible, as POSSIBLE.
Blessings,
MEC

1 Cor 5:9-13 is what I'm talking about. We need to be smart about how we engage our mission. Jesus says to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves not wise as doves and gentle as serpents.

Imagican · Aug 30, 2015

We are also told to separate ourselves from this world. Not the 'world' so far as this Earth. But the 'world' so far as that which is WORLDLY, sensual, of the FLESH instead of Spirit.
I know of NOTHING that exists upon this world that is MORE worldly than POLITICS. The RULING of our fellow men.
Now couple this with the FACT that the ONLY form of government EVER instituted by God upon this planet according to the Bible is a KINGDOM. Then consider that EVERY TIME men have been allowed to choose their OWN path they have chosen that which is CONTRARY to God's will, and it then becomes apparent that a democracy, (which we do NOT live under any way), is of the DEVIL, not of God.
We live under a REPRESENTATIVE democracy. BIG difference between the PEOPLE running the show verses people ELECTED by the people running the show.
Every time I read the news, another Politician is being charged with crimes against the PEOPLE. The indication is that they are ALL committing crimes against the people but are only getting CAUGHT one at a time. It is a conspiracy of Politicians being AGAINST the people and in it for THEMSELVES instead.
If you have a choice between ten crooks, which one would YOU choose?
And your statement of 'civics' is EXACTLY what I have been talking about. You state it as if it is something Godly. When in FACT, the concept is about as UNGodly as anything can be.
It is clear that you and I see things in a completely DIFFERENT manner. I believe that I UNDERSTAND what is meant by 'separating' ourselves FROM this world. What I see in your words is encouragement to be as MUCH a part of this world as EVERYONE else. Your words indicate that we can MIX as much YEAST as we choose with our wheat and still end up with flat bread. I contend that this is an IMPOSSIBILITY. If you add ANY yeast you end up with FLUFFY bread compared to FLAT bread. In other words, one cannot be just a LITTLE bit of a prostitute. You either ARE one or you aren't. There is no IN BETWEEN.
While your words may sound appealing to SOME, the only way that they would have ANY real validity in TRUTH is if you can offer some BIBLICAL support for them And I can think of NO passage in the Bible that encourages us to VOTE or be ANY part of a POLITICAL system other than a KINGDOM. Therefore it is pretty clear that America doesn't follow any sort of GOD inspired 'system', but one inspired from a DIFFERENT source. That SAME source that led Eve to disobedience: FREEDOM of CHOICE and an influence to follow FLESH instead of Spirit.
Blessings,
MEC

DamianWarS · Aug 30, 2015

Imagican said:
We are also told to separate ourselves from this world. Not the 'world' so far as this Earth. But the 'world' so far as that which is WORLDLY, sensual, of the FLESH instead of Spirit.
I know of NOTHING that exists upon this world that is MORE worldly than POLITICS. The RULING of our fellow men.
Now couple this with the FACT that the ONLY form of government EVER instituted by God upon this planet according to the Bible is a KINGDOM. Then consider that EVERY TIME men have been allowed to choose their OWN path they have chosen that which is CONTRARY to God's will, and it then becomes apparent that a democracy, (which we do NOT live under any way), is of the DEVIL, not of God.
We live under a REPRESENTATIVE democracy. BIG difference between the PEOPLE running the show verses people ELECTED by the people running the show.
Every time I read the news, another Politician is being charged with crimes against the PEOPLE. The indication is that they are ALL committing crimes against the people but are only getting CAUGHT one at a time. It is a conspiracy of Politicians being AGAINST the people and in it for THEMSELVES instead.
If you have a choice between ten crooks, which one would YOU choose?
And your statement of 'civics' is EXACTLY what I have been talking about. You state it as if it is something Godly. When in FACT, the concept is about as UNGodly as anything can be.
It is clear that you and I see things in a completely DIFFERENT manner. I believe that I UNDERSTAND what is meant by 'separating' ourselves FROM this world. What I see in your words is encouragement to be as MUCH a part of this world as EVERYONE else. Your words indicate that we can MIX as much YEAST as we choose with our wheat and still end up with flat bread. I contend that this is an IMPOSSIBILITY. If you add ANY yeast you end up with FLUFFY bread compared to FLAT bread. In other words, one cannot be just a LITTLE bit of a prostitute. You either ARE one or you aren't. There is no IN BETWEEN.
While your words may sound appealing to SOME, the only way that they would have ANY real validity in TRUTH is if you can offer some BIBLICAL support for them And I can think of NO passage in the Bible that encourages us to VOTE or be ANY part of a POLITICAL system other than a KINGDOM. Therefore it is pretty clear that America doesn't follow any sort of GOD inspired 'system', but one inspired from a DIFFERENT source. That SAME source that led Eve to disobedience: FREEDOM of CHOICE and an influence to follow FLESH instead of Spirit.
Blessings,
MEC

Then don't vote but also don't judge others who want to vote and do so with a clear conscience.

Voting is a moot point and the right to vote or the act of voting has nothing to do with what is godly or not. It is our hearts that God is concerned with and how we show his glory not if we vote or not.

If you preach on the corner of the street with your bull horn that voting is wrong (which by the way is your constitutional right and is protected by the law) all you are going to do is distant people from the gospel. It's not a moral issue and we need to allow the Holy Spirit to speak into people's lives so they can have the opportunity to follow his conviction not yours.

Don't work so hard at superimposing standards that simply don't exist in the bible. Leave some room for the Holy Spirt.

Imagican · Sep 5, 2015

While your opinion is YOURS to possess and share, that is all I gathered from your post. NOTHING of a 'Spiritual nature' and your indication that there is NOTHING in the Bible to guide us in this issue is an indication you must not have either READ IT or simply didn't understand what you read. Either way, your opinion, in MY opinion, couldn't be FURTHER from the TRUTH. You have tried to mix government with Spirituality and that is an impossibility unless the government you mix is that instituted by GOD. And there is absolutely NO indication that OUR government has ANYTHING to do with God. No indication whatsoever that the government of America was instituted by God. The ONLY indication of God's involvement with America in the ENTIRE Bible is that America was given: 'the heart of a man'. That means NOTHING concerning Spirituality: there are many people with 'good hearts' that will end up in hell. There are many people with GOOD intentions that do the WRONG things.
The Bible warns us to AVOID the 'things of this world'. And I can think of NOTHING more 'worldly' than politics. The attempt to govern 'other men' is futile and fleeting at best. Tyranny at it's worse.
And let me offer this: there are NO 'God given RIGHTS'. No such thing. The ONLY right that we have been given by God is LIFE and the ability to USE it to serve Him. Other than that, we have NO RIGHTS to anything. That is an utterly MAN MADE concept.
Since you believe that voting is a GOOD thing or something that everyone should participate in, I BLAME YOU for the condition of this country. You and everyone else that VOTES. I blame YOU for the Godlessness, the insanity, the EVIL in high places. For from your perspective it is YOU that makes it possible for these things to exist. For it is YOU that has voted for and placed your FAITH in 'other men' who would do nothing other than make 'merchandise of you' and everyone else under their rule.
You say that I should leave room for the Holy Spirit???? I say that you err in that the Holy Spirit has already spoken on the matter and that it is YOU that has refused to heed the message.
And how foolish to believe that a 'system' that can be manipulated by MEN who instituted it has any validity whatsoever. In other words, if you don't understand, you have absolutely NO proof or even indication that YOUR vote is ever even COUNTED in truth. For the system itself CAN BE manipulated by those in CONTROL of it. The NUMBERS can be manipulated by those in congtrol to the point that you have NO WAY to even SAY that your vote matters. Not in TRUTH that is.
And that is WHY we are to place our faith in GOD, not in MAN or man's systems that are capable of being manipulated by principalities and powers in HIGH places.
And I'll bet that you place your faith in MONEY as well. Believing that if you have ENOUGH that your security is assured. Oblivious to the FACT that in a blinking of an eye money can be rendered utterly USELESS. In a microsecond, whatever wealth you believe you possess can become WORTHLESS. For it is a SYSTEM devised by principalities and powers in HIGH places who are in utter REJECTION of God or His will. They are manipulating things for their OWN purposes and those purposes are EVIL in nature.
So offer your opinion if you choose. But at least recognize it as such. I choose to place my faith in the truth as offered through God's Word: the Bible. And it warns us OVER and OVER to avoid taking part in the 'things of this world'. To separate ourselves and follow that which is Spiritual instead of sensual. YOU have NO control by VOTING. And even if you did, all indications are that EVERY TIME it has been left up to the PEOPLE to choose their path, they have chosen the WRONG path. We follow by FOLLOWING, not trying to LEAD. And we follow in TRUTH by following God's will, not our own or the will of those who control us PHYSICALLY. ALL that we DO is to be DONE in order to bring Glory to God. And I see NO 'glory' offered to GOD by following MEN or their institutions. Participation in 'the things of this world' CERTAINLY brings NO glory to God. And believing oneself to be RIGHTEOUS enough to choose the manner in which we live is about as VAIN as anything could be. For it is NOT our CHOICE if we are TRUE followers. The 'way' has already been declared to those that have truly been 'born again'. And that 'way' is not through VOTING, but through faithful FOLLOWING that which has been REVEALED.
Blessings,
MEC

curse of one's father.

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