Do Christian Believers Sin?

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
"Do you not know that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?"

The modern church, lacking any tangible and clear instruction on how to walk in full obedience, has simply opted for the next best thing, to make sin that they do not have any idea how to defeat, a non-issue. When this happens, the heart has no protection against being hardened, for the believer now can sin without conviction, without the need for repentance, and in the end, the result is a religious form of Christianity that may actually generate tears during worship on Sundays,but when the temptations come, and they will, no armor is in place, no sword is wielded to ward off the devil's attacks, and the shield of faith, our protection that God has offered us, faith that we are truly new creations and that sin has no authority, nor dominion over us, is found unused, lying in the corner.

Sister, I know you think what I share is legalism, for that is the only option we can think of as long as sin is discussed. But God is trying to awaken us to another option, one His church needs so very desperately in order to truly....visibly... walk in holiness, in purity of heart, in real obedience, in true agape love. Will we not believe Him? He longs to set us free indeed where we do not commit sin and see our abiding interrupted. He can give us new natures, NEW HEARTS! Yes, we still have to function in our fleshly bodies, but we are made overcomers, and given the ability to actually walk in the Spirit and keep our bodies under. Our spirits are no longer fleshly, and praise God, Paul tells us that we owe NOTHING to the fleshly nature any more.

So to your question, sin does have the power to erode our relationship with God, for Jesus said that if we commit sins, we cannot abide in the house all the time. We may be servants, but do not enjoy the position of sons and daughters that God so wants for us.

Praise God, all that is about to change.

Blessings, dear friend

Gideon

Honestly, I'm starting to question what kind of churches some people here attend.

When we think that our sin (which because God is fair and just) is more powerful than love, than I see why there are not more people in our churches. We are in fact setting a bad example of who and what God is. When Jesus spoke to His disciples in the Word, He didn't chastise their sin all the time, but taught them faith, love, devotion to Him.

This is why our churches our lukewarm. People do not see Jesus in us, they see people with a HUGE concentration on themselves. Very sad story indeed.

Why didn't Jesus include sin in the two most important commandments? How come the only real time Jesus chastised sin was with the Pharisee's? Not so much because of their sin, but because they were hypocrites.

Are we given the strength of Christ to do all things only to avoid sin? Seems Jesus didn't preach sin as much as you are here. Why is that?
 
Upvote 0

Gideons300

Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.
Jun 26, 2015
1,697
1,275
74
Maryville, Tennessee
✟109,977.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So there is no other way to love God, huh? Interesting.
Why is it some have such a hard time accepting that obedience is part of the gospel? It is like some want to say, "OK, Lord, you know I am weak and sometimes do not want to obey you, so I am going to love you another way, some way where I do not actually have to leave my flesh and self-love behind."

Jesus said that we are His friends if we do whatsoever He commands us. If we find doing that something we are unable to do, would it not be far better and more pleasing to God to draw near Him like Paul did in Romans 7, crying out with a broken heart:

"Lord, I HATE that part of me that makes excuses for my continued disobedience. I long to be free indeed as you defined that freedom but I simply fail no matter how hard I try. God, deliver me. Let my eyes be opened to how powerful the grace of God really is. You promised that grace would teach me how, Lord. If I cannot obey you Lord, I cannot honor you, nor be your friend. Give me the answer I so desperately need, dear Father. Do not leave me in this miserable state of contentment without godliness. Change me Lord. Make me new just as you promised, where sin no longer has dominion over me. Sanctify me wholly, my God, and make me a child who loves to obey you. Amen."

The prodigal son may have been a son, even in His disobedience, but he enjoyed no benefit of that sonship. But glory to God, when it finally broke inside him, and he "came to himself" and realized even being an obedient servant has more blessings than to be a disobedient son, and returned humbled, broken, willing to simply serve God with no thought for himself or his "rights", it was then, and only then, that the blessings of full sonship came to be his.

We as the church today have been taught that grace makes obedience optional. We have been taught wrong. Grace makes real obedience not only possible, but actually assures us that God will fulfill His promise to us and cause us to walk in full obedience.

Grace does not cause God to wink at our continuing in self rule and sin. Hating our life, our rebellion, our religiousness is the cost to our being made free indeed. As long as we continue to love ourselves more than our neighbor, as long as we love His forgiveness, but bristle at His Lordship over us, as long as we continue to ask for the blood to be applied to our wilful sin with our hearts totally content right where we are, we give satan even more opportunity to keep us from the land of promise He offers.

Let none be deceived. He that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. If we do not know HOW to eny self, or resist temptation or stop sinning, TELL HIM! Let your joy be turned to heaviness and break before your Father. He has an answer and when we seek Him with ALL of our heart, He will answer us and that answer will turn our tears of sorrow into tears of amazing joy. He promises it.

Huge changes are coming.

Blessings,

Gids
 
Upvote 0

Johnlove1

Active Member
Aug 5, 2015
322
26
89
✟598.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
So there is no other way to love God, huh? Interesting.
So there is no other way to love God, huh? Interesting.
So there is no other way to love God, huh? Interesting.
So there is no other way to love God, huh? That is a short sided view of what loving God entails. God says with ALL your heart, your soul and your mind. All that comes from obedience?

That's not my experience in Christ.

There is no way to sugar coat the truth. The Church has been wrong about sin for so long that some don’t even believe God’s cares if one sins of not.


If one has been given the Holy Spirit, and has allowed the Holy Spirit to instruct him or her, they would know that a Christian does not sin ever.


How can one say they love God, and turn right around and disobey him? Before Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit from whom we receive the grace to withstand Satan/sin, then there was an excuse for one to sin.


Paul explains that in Romans seven, but in Romans eight Paul tells us how God made it possible not to sin again.


(Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”


Many people want to believe they have been given the Holy Spirit, but have nothing to verify his presence.


Even the magnification of some gifts can be given to one by Satan. The only true way one knows if he or she is being led by the Holy Spirit is by the fruits produced.


(Matthew 12:33) “Make a tree sound and its fruit will be sound; make a tree rotten and its fruit will be rotten. For the tree can be told by its fruit.”
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Why is it some have such a hard time accepting that obedience is part of the gospel? It is like some want to say, "OK, Lord, you know I am weak and sometimes do not want to obey you, so I am going to love you another way, some way where I do not actually have to leave my flesh and self-love behind."

Jesus said that we are His friends if we do whatsoever He commands us. If we find doing that something we are unable to do, would it not be far better and more pleasing to God to draw near Him like Paul did in Romans 7, crying out with a broken heart:

"Lord, I HATE that part of me that makes excuses for my continued disobedience. I long to be free indeed as you defined that freedom but I simply fail no matter how hard I try. God, deliver me. Let my eyes be opened to how powerful the grace of God really is. You promised that grace would teach me how, Lord. If I cannot obey you Lord, I cannot honor you, nor be your friend. Give me the answer I so desperately need, dear Father. Do not leave me in this miserable state of contentment without godliness. Change me Lord. Make me new just as you promised, where sin no longer has dominion over me. Sanctify me wholly, my God, and make me a child who loves to obey you. Amen."

The prodigal son may have been a son, even in His disobedience, but he enjoyed no benefit of that sonship. But glory to God, when it finally broke inside him, and he "came to himself" and realized even being an obedient servant has more blessings than to be a disobedient son, and returned humbled, broken, willing to simply serve God with no thought for himself or his "rights", it was then, and only then, that the blessings of full sonship came to be his.

We as the church today have been taught that grace makes obedience optional. We have been taught wrong. Grace makes real obedience not only possible, but actually assures us that God will fulfill His promise to us and cause us to walk in full obedience.

Grace does not cause God to wink at our continuing in self rule and sin. Hating our life, our rebellion, our religiousness is the cost to our being made free indeed. As long as we continue to love ourselves more than our neighbor, as long as we love His forgiveness, but bristle at His Lordship over us, as long as we continue to ask for the blood to be applied to our wilful sin with our hearts totally content right where we are, we give satan even more opportunity to keep us from the land of promise He offers.

Let none be deceived. He that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. If we do not know HOW to eny self, or resist temptation or stop sinning, TELL HIM! Let your joy be turned to heaviness and break before your Father. He has an answer and when we seek Him with ALL of our heart, He will answer us and that answer will turn our tears of sorrow into tears of amazing joy. He promises it.

Huge changes are coming.

Blessings,

Gids

That is not fairly representing what I said. I did not say that obedience is not important, I said that when sin is on our minds and hearts more than love, than we are not following what Jesus Christ did when He was here on earth. Jesus lead by example and He didn't take a huge part of His ministry to talk about sin, as a matter of fact, He was loving and forgiving to the adulterer who they were trying to stone.

Why don't we live as Christ lived? Jesus said that love is more important. He made that VERY CLEAR when He said that the two most important commandments (re love) fulfill the law if followed.

You are going against the very Word of God, literally.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
There is no way to sugar coat the truth. The Church has been wrong about sin for so long that some don’t even believe God’s cares if one sins of not.


If one has been given the Holy Spirit, and has allowed the Holy Spirit to instruct him or her, they would know that a Christian does not sin ever.


How can one say they love God, and turn right around and disobey him? Before Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit from whom we receive the grace to withstand Satan/sin, then there was an excuse for one to sin.


Paul explains that in Romans seven, but in Romans eight Paul tells us how God made it possible not to sin again.


(Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”


Many people want to believe they have been given the Holy Spirit, but have nothing to verify his presence.


Even the magnification of some gifts can be given to one by Satan. The only true way one knows if he or she is being led by the Holy Spirit is by the fruits produced.


(Matthew 12:33) “Make a tree sound and its fruit will be sound; make a tree rotten and its fruit will be rotten. For the tree can be told by its fruit.”

No one is sugar coating sin. My church is very big on obedience and walking in faith, but not at the detremention of living the love of Christ.

The biggest thing non-Christians don't respect about us is that we do not live as our Lord, talk the talk, but not walk the walk.

I am saying LOVE over OBEDIENCE. NOT that obedience is not important.
That love breeds obedience because by being loving we are being obedient. One cannot be breaking the law of God if we are walking in love.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Why is it some have such a hard time accepting that obedience is part of the gospel?

Obedience is NOT part of the gospel.

The gospel is the Good News that the Son of God has come to earth and died for the sins of the world and all are available to accept His gift of Salvation!

Do you not know the gospel of Jesus Christ?
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
There is no way to sugar coat the truth. The Church has been wrong about sin for so long that some don’t even believe God’s cares if one sins of not.


If one has been given the Holy Spirit, and has allowed the Holy Spirit to instruct him or her, they would know that a Christian does not sin ever.


How can one say they love God, and turn right around and disobey him? Before Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit from whom we receive the grace to withstand Satan/sin, then there was an excuse for one to sin.


Paul explains that in Romans seven, but in Romans eight Paul tells us how God made it possible not to sin again.


(Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”


Many people want to believe they have been given the Holy Spirit, but have nothing to verify his presence.


Even the magnification of some gifts can be given to one by Satan. The only true way one knows if he or she is being led by the Holy Spirit is by the fruits produced.


(Matthew 12:33) “Make a tree sound and its fruit will be sound; make a tree rotten and its fruit will be rotten. For the tree can be told by its fruit.”

If avoiding sin is more important than love, how come Jesus told us that He is fair and just to FORGIVE us our sins when we ask Him and to CLEANSE us from unrighteousness.

However, Jesus does not give any substitution for the lack of love? As a matter of fact, HE STATES that love is most important and that ALL OF THE LAW is fulfilled through love?

Love leads to obedience. Try it some time, it works.
 
Upvote 0

Johnlove1

Active Member
Aug 5, 2015
322
26
89
✟598.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
If avoiding sin is more important than love, how come Jesus told us that He is fair and just to FORGIVE us our sins when we ask Him and to CLEANSE us from unrighteousness.

However, Jesus does not give any substitution for the lack of love? As a matter of fact, HE STATES that love is most important and that ALL OF THE LAW is fulfilled through love?

Love leads to obedience. Try it some time, it works.

(Matthew 21:28-31) “‘What is your opinion? A man had two sons. He went and said to the first, “My boy, you go and work in the vineyard today”. He answered, ‘I will not go’, but afterwards thought better of it and went. *The man then went and said the same thing to the second who answered, ‘Certainly, sir’, but did not go. Which of the two did the father’s will?


The son who did not do the father’s will, was telling the father I love you, but they were just empty words.
 
Upvote 0

Travelers.Soul

Traveler; Dreamer; Warrior; Coffee lover
Aug 15, 2010
6,510
8,662
Land of the Horse
✟132,318.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Yes people quote that part of John’s letter, and how they can do so without feeling totally dishonest, I sure don’t understand.


Do you believe John was telling those Children of God who can’t sin, that they need not tell anyone? Do you believe that John was saying they were liars if they shared they no longer sinned?


I don’t believe people, when they quote 1 John 1:8-10 they expect any intelligent person to use that as to believe everyone still sins.


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible[/QU

I will make my response short sweet and to the point. Here is a break down of the passages in greek and an explanation of them. Feel free to look over it. https://carm.org/can-true-christian-sin

The real question is can the Bible contradict itself? I believe it is impossible for the Word of God to contradict itself. Why would the Scripture teach that sinners and saints alike need to repent and confess their sins if after we were saved we become perfect? If we are perfect and no longer sin then why did Christ's example of prayer mention "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors", why does Ps 51 exist, James 5:16, or any other passage like it? Why did Paul bemoan his sin or cry out for deliverance from "this body of death" if indeed we can reach a state of sinlessness in this life? If the apostle Paul encouraged people to put of sin and spoke of his struggle with sin who am I to claim I do not? Why would the writer of Hebrews write "...in your struggle against sin..." if a Christian can no longer sin? Just some thoughts and questions. I firmly believe that Christians still can and do sin until they are called home. This is the reason we need confession, repentance, and forgiveness.
 
Upvote 0

Johnlove1

Active Member
Aug 5, 2015
322
26
89
✟598.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Scripture does not contradict its self, it is just man’s understanding of the written Word that make it appear that way.


I am not going to address all your understandings of how scripture says we will struggle with sin.


Like the Lord’s Prayer, it was given to the disciples before they had be given the Holy Spirit, and Jesus knew that would still sin.

Once a person allows the Holy Spirit to direct one’s life it is no longer a struggle to not sin. All one needs to do is obey what the Holy Spirit/Jesus tells him or her to do. It is God’s work that is being done in a Spiritual Christian.


Paul knew that, and that is why he said one does not get to heaven by one’s work.


I struggled not to sin for my first thirty some years, but once I gave my life to Jesus, not sinning no longer was a problem.


I use the written Word of God, and know personally from Jesus that it is God’s written Word. But I came to know God because Jesus personally has taught me about him.


Jesus has used the bible to help teach me at times, but Jesus/Holy Spirit always gives me the true understanding to the written Word of God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gideons300

Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.
Jun 26, 2015
1,697
1,275
74
Maryville, Tennessee
✟109,977.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Obedience is NOT part of the gospel.
And there it is. The lie that we have swallowed hook line and sinker.

On the last day, when it is time for each one of us to give account for what has been entrusted to us in this life, what do we find according to scripture? Do we see Jesus telling people who have disobeyed the gospel call to be doers of the word and not hearers only that it is all ok? Will Jesus wink at us and our willful sins and say "C'mon in anyway, you said that one prayer fifty years ago that makes your life of full disobedience a moot point" ?

And shall He then turn to the non-religious disobedient one and say "Depart from me, ALL ye that work iniquity" and then cast them into everlasting hell? Have we forgotten that our Jesus has told us that to whom much is given, much is required? We are about to get a reminder, and praise God, with it will be the secret we have missed as to HOW to insure that we do what God desires of us. We are about to be shown the truth of the new nature and that it must be PUT ON.

Who do we think these people are who were shocked and rejected on the last day?? Nominal Christians? Those from denominations other than our own? Those who never spoke in tongues? These people cast out demons, guys. They did many wonderful works...in their own minds at least.

But in the end, righteous judgment will reign. God will see the thoughts and intents of each of our hearts. Those who did the will of God, and even those who wanted to but knew not how, they all entered into the glory of heaven. Those who disobeyed, who remained religious and yet were as Jesus called them, whitewashed tombs, all prettied up outwardly but rulers over themselves still inwardly, found to their shock and horror that obedience DID have much to do with the gospel.

The difference between the two covenants is NOT that obedience is not desired or required in the new. It is that under the old covenant, the law, true obedience was impossible. Our natures were disobedient ones! We could not truly obey no matter how dedicated we were or how hard we tried to do what was right. But praise the Lord, under the new covenant though, the pathway to our becoming fully obedient to the leadings of the Lord, to our walking as a true friend of the Lord, is made available to the hungry humble ones by way of faith alone. He wants to impart to us brand new obedient natures, where we not only want to do His will, but actually DO IT.

Do we think God gives us the Holy Sprit so He can hear us speak in tongues or perform miracles or speak prophecies? No. He gives us the indwelling Spirit and His spiritual gifts for the perfecting of the saints... to make us holy, obedient children, where walking as living sacrifices is not viewed as extremism.

In truth, the early church lived this out and turned the entire world upside down in one generation. The devil trued through Ananias and Saphira to infiltrate the purity of the church and we know how that turned out. Let each one of us know this though. Before our Lord comes back for His bride, we will have the blinders removed from our eyes and discover that the joy of our salvation is found only when we finally fully surrender to let Him rule over us in ALL things. Savior AND Lord. Those who want to claim the blood but who have no desire to obey Him in love will find to their horror that God sees through our smokescreens of excuses and will ask us "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do, or even want to do those things I command you?"

Currently, we cringe when we hear that. Legalism, we cry! How can we truly be free if we have to be servants ? We are sons, not servant! And it is that blindness that has infected us, that has hardened our hearts, that has caused us to be seen as nothing more than religious hypocrites to the world we were sent to lead to Christ.

But God will not let his glorious name be blasphemed by His own people much longer. If our lives are not demonstrating what God can do to change our rebellious disobedient selves into love filled obedient children, bond servants who LOVE to obey their Lord, then it is time for tears, not our defending the indefensible position that obedience is not part of the gospel.

In truth, obedience is the very purpose of the gospel, the HOW to our being made holy, and yet as of now, how few there are who see it.... and few less who want it. But.....not for long.

God said "I shall yet be inquired of by the house of Israel to DO IT FOR THEM."

Our path will soon lead us into the valley of decision, where each one of us will ultimately choose whom we will serve.....Him or us. We cannot serve both. Either our faith must die, or our old self nature must be hated and denied. There simply is no way around it.

Blessings,

Gids
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
(Matthew 21:28-31) “‘What is your opinion? A man had two sons. He went and said to the first, “My boy, you go and work in the vineyard today”. He answered, ‘I will not go’, but afterwards thought better of it and went. *The man then went and said the same thing to the second who answered, ‘Certainly, sir’, but did not go. Which of the two did the father’s will?


The son who did not do the father’s will, was telling the father I love you, but they were just empty words.

If your definition of 'love' is so wrapped up in obedience than I guess that is your understanding. It is too bad though, love is much more.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,794
✟322,485.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
On the last day, when it is time for each one of us to give account for what has been entrusted to us in this life, what do we find according to scripture? Do we see Jesus telling people who have disobeyed the gospel call to be doers of the word and not hearers only that it is all ok? Will Jesus wink at us and our willful sins and say "C'mon in anyway, you said that one prayer fifty years ago that makes your life of full disobedience a moot point" ?

I don't think you read what I posted a few posts back, because I wrote in all caps and bolded to say that I think love is more important, not that obedience is not important at all.

But it's been a good conversation. God bless you Gids.
 
Upvote 0

Johnlove1

Active Member
Aug 5, 2015
322
26
89
✟598.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
If your definition of 'love' is so wrapped up in obedience than I guess that is your understanding. It is too bad though, love is much more.

Yes love is much more than just obedience, but obeying God includes all that love is.


Living God’s Commandments is loving people, and by doing so Jesus told us that those who live his Commandments are loving him.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


Notice the Father will love those who keep God’s Word. Does that not say the Father in Heaven will not love those who do not keep his Word?


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


Jesus said he would show himself to those who love him, how many people do you know that have seen Jesus?
 
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
19,742
3,717
Midlands
Visit site
✟562,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think the OP steps into a misunderstanding that is all to common when reading 1 John.
Look again at the text of 1 John 3:9

1 John 3:
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

One is forced to ask in what context this verse is written. Some will read this and think it pertains to the "whole man." When it says "he that is born of God" does it mean the whole man, including the whole spirit, soul, and body? Easy question. When "you" were born again, was you body born again? No. Was you soul born again. Did you become a different personality with an entirely new set of thoughts, memories, and emotions? I did not. The only part of me that was born again was my spirit. My spirit is the only part that inherited the divine nature of God. My body stayed the same and my soul stayed the same. ( I think the OPer clarified this in a later post... thank you very much!)

Jesus specifically stated the difference between flesh and spirit when He taught us about being born again:

John 3:
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Habitual? Continue? Practice?
The use of the word "practice" in the verse is simply incorrect. I do not know where these translators get this because there is really nothing in the Greek to substantiate it. Nor is the word "continue." This is simply the translator becoming an interpreter. To introduce the concept of "habitual" into this verse causes a very nasty problem. The verse says we do not sin because we are God's seed and since God does not sin(logically) we do not (cannot) sin either.

But lets introduce the concept of "habitual" into that idea:

"We do not habitually sin because God does not habitually sin."
So we and God sin - just not habitually?

Even worse:

"We do not continue to sin because God does not continue to sin."
So we and God have both ceased to continue on in sin?

Neither of these are acceptable.

God does not and never has sinned, habitually or otherwise. So the verse is saying that if your spirit is born of God, it "cannot sin": habitually or otherwise. Also, the introduction of the concept of "habitually" has the verse contradicting itself. A spirit that "cannot sin" does not sin at all - habitually or otherwise. So which is it? God and we do not sin...or God and we may sin a little, but not habitually? Does not work does it.

But the OP is very much correct in this regard. That which is born of God does not sin, in fact cannot sin. I just see this as referring to the part of us that was actually born again - our spirit, not our whole self.

Finally, apply the reasonableness test. Have you sinned since you were born again? I have. Just not from my spirit. My spirit is a good tree and it cannot sin. If what the OP says is correct, then nobody is born again and God's plan is a total and absolute failure.(Again, I think the OPer clarified this in a later post - thank you very much!)

Of course the uncrucified flesh and unrenewed mind still has to be dealt with. But that is another subject.

Good discussion.... thanks Oscarr.
Peace...

Hobs a.k.a Dids
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Johnlove1

Active Member
Aug 5, 2015
322
26
89
✟598.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
I think the OP steps into a misunderstanding that is all to common when reading 1 John.
Look again at the text of 1 John 3:9

1 John 3:
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

One is forced to ask in what context this verse is written. Some will read this and think it pertains to the "whole man." When it says "he that is born of God" does it mean the whole man, including the whole spirit, soul, and body? Easy question. When "you" were born again, was you body born again? No. Was you soul born again. Did you become a different personality with an entirely new set of thoughts, memories, and emotions? I did not. The only part of me that was born again was my spirit. My spirit is the only part that inherited the divine nature of God. My body stayed the same and my soul stayed the same. ( I think the OPer clarified this in a later post... thank you very much!)

Jesus specifically stated the difference between flesh and spirit when He taught us about being born again:

John 3:
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Habitual? Continue? Practice?
The use of the word "practice" in the verse is simply incorrect. I do not know where these translators get this because there is really nothing in the Greek to substantiate it. Nor is the word "continue." This is simply the translator becoming an interpreter. To introduce the concept of "habitual" into this verse causes a very nasty problem. The verse says we do not sin because we are God's seed and since God does not sin(logically) we do not (cannot) sin either.

But lets introduce the concept of "habitual" into that idea:

"We do not habitually sin because God does not habitually sin."
So we and God sin - just not habitually?

Even worse:

"We do not continue to sin because God does not continue to sin."
So we and God have both ceased to continue on in sin?

Neither of these are acceptable.

God does not and never has sinned, habitually or otherwise. So the verse is saying that if your spirit is born of God, it "cannot sin": habitually or otherwise. Also, the introduction of the concept of "habitually" has the verse contradicting itself. A spirit that "cannot sin" does not sin at all - habitually or otherwise. So which is it? God and we do not sin...or God and we may sin a little, but not habitually? Does not work does it.

But the OP is very much correct in this regard. That which is born of God does not sin, in fact cannot sin. I just see this as referring to the part of us that was actually born again - our spirit, not our whole self.

Finally, apply the reasonableness test. Have you sinned since you were born again? I have. Just not from my spirit. My spirit is a good tree and it cannot sin. If what the OP says is correct, then nobody is born again and God's plan is a total and absolute failure.(Again, I think the OPer clarified this in a later post - thank you very much!)

Of course the uncrucified flesh and unrenewed mind still has to be dealt with. But that is another subject.

Good discussion.... thanks Oscarr.
Peace...

Hobs a.k.a Dids
When did one’s spirit ever sin? Jesus came to stop Satan from leading people to sin. Only the flesh sinned. That is what Jesus came to stop.


(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since thedevilhas been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.
 
Upvote 0