The Rider Of The White Horse.

Berean777 · Aug 7, 2015

kingdomwitness said:
This Is The 2nd Or 3rd Time I Have Posted Concerning This Topic. People Think The Rider Of The White Horse Is The Antichrist. How Can One Of The Riders Be A Person And The Rest Be Things? I Think The Rider Of The White Horse Symbolizes The Ministry Of The Church Or The Church Itself. People Rightly Point Out That The Church And Israel Are Usually Symbolized By A Woman. But There Are Exceptions.

Exodus 4:22 - "And You Shall Say Unto Pharaoh `This Is What JEHOVAH Says' Israel Is My Son, My Firstborn Son"

Also Read Hosea 11:1 To See My Point.

The Rider Held A Bow Which I Think Is The Bible. The Crown Might Symbolise Victory.

This bow doesn't symbolise an instrument of war, it is the rainbow of God. The Living Word has a rainbow of God above his head, because God's promise is to him. Paul writes that God made the promise to his seed meaning singular and not to seeds, therefore this person is the Israel of God whom the promise is for, and to thy seed. So the rainbow is the symbol of promise in the same way God made a promise to Noah that he will never flood the world by the sign of the rainbow.
This rider in white is the Lord himself who exacts vengeance upon his enemies who are not under the rainbow of protection.

Berean777 · Aug 7, 2015

The crown given to him is the crown of righteousness that the ancient of days had given him, to exact his righteousness and to conquer the world by his righteousness alone by silencing all false accusations.

vinsight4u · Aug 8, 2015

Straightshot · Aug 8, 2015

My comment

The first seal symbolizes the Lord, His gospel of salvation, and soon coming kingdom upon the earth

Conquering and .... to continue conquering during His coming time of trial and judgment upon the earth

Here He is again [Revelation 19:11]

Berean777 · Aug 8, 2015

Grammar is important in verse two of chapter 6 because it has several independent clauses that are not meant to be read sequential. Just like a shopping list that can have any order and the items don't relate to each other.

For example the colon and semicolon used applies independant clauses where the colon is a stronger one, whereas the semicolon still maintain some context but different instances.

For example:

University of New York: 123 central Avenue; New York: department of science.

University of New York and department of science are independant clauses from the address. Whereas the address uses a semicolon to separate independant clauses having similar context which is the address separating street from suburb for example.

Revelation 6:2
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

In the versus above the white horse and the going forth to conquer is completely independant of the person who sat on the white horse having a bow and a crown. You see the context where the semicolon is used is similar in that the bow and the crown being independant from each other have the same contextual application in that both the bow and the crown are applied to the head, that is this rider has a crown onto of his head and also a bow over it.

Straightshot · Aug 9, 2015

The seals are symbolic portents of the actual events of tribulation to come, and all must first be removed from the scroll before the events of the tribulation can begin [Revelation 5:1-7]

All represent the prevalent conditions that will exist during the tribulation

.... and one of these conditions will be the continued spreading of the gospel of the Lord's soon coming millennial kingdom upon the earth [Matthew 24:14; Revelation 6:1-2; 7:1-8; 14:1-7]

Conquering .... and to conquer

"White" is the color symbol of the Lord, His gospel, and His true followers given in Revelation's unfolding

ebedmelech · Aug 9, 2015

Berean777 said:
This bow doesn't symbolise an instrument of war, it is the rainbow of God. The Living Word has a rainbow of God above his head, because God's promise is to him. Paul writes that God made the promise to his seed meaning singular and not to seeds, therefore this person is the Israel of God whom the promise is for, and to thy seed. So the rainbow is the symbol of promise in the same way God made a promise to Noah that he will never flood the world by the sign of the rainbow.
This rider in white is the Lord himself who exacts vengeance upon his enemies who are not under the rainbow of protection.

I would say this is close, but not correct as far as the part I bolded. I think you'vve imposed on the text with those words. To understand the bow one has to remember the Psalms! This bow is constantly symbolized as the instrument of spiritual war:

*Psalm 7:12 If a man does not repent, He will sharpen His sword; He has bent His bow and made it ready.

*Psalm 11:2 For, behold, the wicked bend the bow, They make ready their arrow upon the string To shoot in darkness at the upright in heart.

*Psalm 18:34 He trains my hands for battle, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

*Psalm 21:12 For You will make them turn their back; You will aim with Your bowstrings at their faces.

*Psalm 37:15 Their sword will enter their own heart, And their bows will be broken.

All of those show the bow used as a spiritual weapon of God, or the righteous, or the wicked.

Context is always determinative! The rider on the white horse is Christ! The church goes forth under the authority of Christ. This is the context of the passage...Revelation 6:2:
2 I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

I think the translation of this passage shows it was never considered that this was Christ by the translators, and that lends to the idea that this is antichrist...but that is quite wrong as I see it. I think there is a reasonable argument that this is the church led by Christ.

*The first thing to understand is the white horse, a symbol of purity and power.

*The second thing is the rider on the horse with the bow. The description of his authority follows in that it says "a crown was given him"...Hebrews 2:9 comes to mind:

9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

I posted this earlier, which is Romans 8:37-39:
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The church conquers on the authority (or power) of Christ! Christ said to His disciples in Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Straightshot · Aug 9, 2015

Seals 2 through 4 symbolize Satan's involvement in the coming tribulation .... the "red" is consistent with this one's involvement in the tribulation

Berean777 · Aug 9, 2015

ebedmelech said:
I would say this is close, but not correct as far as the part I bolded. I think you'vve imposed on the text with those words. To understand the bow one has to remember the Psalms! This bow is constantly symbolized as the instrument of spiritual war:

*Psalm 7:12 If a man does not repent, He will sharpen His sword; He has bent His bow and made it ready.

*Psalm 11:2 For, behold, the wicked bend the bow, They make ready their arrow upon the string To shoot in darkness at the upright in heart.

*Psalm 18:34 He trains my hands for battle, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

*Psalm 21:12 For You will make them turn their back; You will aim with Your bowstrings at their faces.

*Psalm 37:15 Their sword will enter their own heart, And their bows will be broken.

All of those show the bow used as a spiritual weapon of God, or the righteous, or the wicked.

Context is always determinative! The rider on the white horse is Christ! The church goes forth under the authority of Christ. This is the context of the passage...Revelation 6:2:
2 I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

I think the translation of this passage shows it was never considered that this was Christ by the translators, and that lends to the idea that this is antichrist...but that is quite wrong as I see it. I think there is a reasonable argument that this is the church led by Christ.

*The first thing to understand is the white horse, a symbol of purity and power.

*The second thing is the rider on the horse with the bow. The description of his authority follows in that it says "a crown was given him"...Hebrews 2:9 comes to mind:

9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

I posted this earlier, which is Romans 8:37-39:
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The church conquers on the authority (or power) of Christ! Christ said to His disciples in Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

The word bow mentioned in the Psalms versus you had quoted is a completely different word to that mentioned in Revelation 6:2.

Firstly I hope you use some sort of fabric to tie a bow around your present rather than an arrow. The author of Revelation uses the word fabric to figuratively imply that God's promise is symbolised by the rainbow of promise, for that is the gift/present that God has given to humanity through his Son Jesus Christ.

Psalm 7:12, Psalm 11:2, Psalm 18:34 and Psalm 37:15 uses the following word in the Greek:

7198
קשׁת
[qesheth] \keh'-sheth\
7185 in the original sense (of 6983) of bending; a {bow} for shooting (hence figuratively strength) or the iris: - X arch ({-er}) + {arrow} bow ({[-man} -shot]).
Find all occurrences

Psalm 21:12 uses the following word in the Greek:

4340
מיתר
mêythâr] \may-thawr'\
From 3498; a cord (of a {tent}) (compare 3499) or the string (of a bow): - {cord} string.

This would be similar to Ephessians 6:16

956
906; a missile, i.e. spear or arrow:--dart.
See Greek 906.

However all the above occurrences do NOT use the following occurrence of BOW used in Recelation 6:2. The word bow in the Greek used is:

5115 \tox' on\
5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):--bow.
See Greek 5088.

It is apparently a fabric which 5088 describes as:

5088 τίκτω [TI/KTW] {tíktō} \tik'-to\
a strengthened form of a primary τέκω [TE/KW] {tékō} \tek'-o\
(which is used only as alternate in certain tenses); to produce (from seed, as a mother, a plant, the earth, etc.), literally or figuratively:--bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail.

What was the word used to promise Noah that God will not flood the world again?

Genesis 9:13
I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

Genesis 9:16
And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Believe it or not the word used here is the same as the word used in the Psalms:

7198
קשׁת
[qesheth] \keh'-sheth\
7185 in the original sense (of 6983) of bending; a {bow} for shooting (hence figuratively strength) or the iris: - X arch ({-er}) + {arrow} bow ({[-man} -shot]).
Find all occurrences

The same word is used to imply two different figurative meanings, where in Psalms it is used as an instrument of war/strength, and the other as the promise given to Noah.

So how can we definitively say that it is an instrument of war if a word like tox' on (5115) is used?

Here is another commentary on the translation of the word tox' on used in Revelation 6:2:

Not to belabor the point, but if "bow", as used in Revelation 6:2 and defined by Strong's as "the simplest fabric", actually means "rainbow" and should have been translated that way, why in Revelation do we twice find the word "rainbow" actually in the text being translated from a different Greek word.

And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow (Strong's 2463)round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. Revelation 4:3

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow (Strong's 2463) was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: Revelation 10:1

2463 iris {ee'-ris} perhaps from 2046 (as a symbol of the female messenger of thepagan deities); a rainbow ("iris"):--rainbow. See Greek-- 2046
Now, if I told you I had wrapped a Christmas present with a "bow", what would you think? That I had attached a rainbow or hunting bow to it? Hopefully not. It is obvious to most readers what "bow" means from the context, simple loops of cloth around the present.

Here is the link to the commentary:

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2013/tedp34.htm

Berean777 · Aug 9, 2015

The word Tox'on is used and means fabric and if we consider the difference between an object of war such as a bow and a fabric, we have these distinctions:

A bow is a hard object that uses a hard and sharp projectile to shoot at the enemy whilst a fabric is soft and is used to wear or to cover a package, maybe a gift or even a promise sealed by the fabric that is tied in a bow fashion.

“This shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes (fabric tox'on), lying in a manger.” His wrappings surely would have been distinctive.

I think that such a concept of a cloth (fabric tox'on) with family markings might also have been relevant when Joseph, son of Israel, became the birthright son and received the unique cloth coat of many colors–a fabric symbolic of the birthright. (Russel M. Nelson, “Christ the Savior is Born,” BYU Devotional, 10 December 2002, http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=506 )

I believe according to 5115 and 5088 as I my previous post link below:

<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-rider-of-the-white-horse.7898081/page-8#post-68441804">The Rider Of The White Horse.</a>

The bow is a birth right where I originally mentioned in:

<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-rider-of-the-white-horse.7898081/page-8#post-68433065">The Rider Of The White Horse.</a>

To thy seed in singular being applied to the Son of righteousness Jesus Christ who wears the crown because he is our kingly chief priest ministering on our behaves in the Holy of Holies.

ebedmelech · Aug 9, 2015

Berean777 said:
The word bow mentioned in the Psalms versus you had quoted is a completely different word to that mentioned in Revelation 6:2.

Firstly I hope you use some sort of fabric to tie a bow around your present rather than an arrow. The author of Revelation uses the word fabric to figuratively imply that God's promise is symbolised by the rainbow of promise, for that is the gift/present that God has given to humanity through his Son Jesus Christ.

Psalm 7:12, Psalm 11:2, Psalm 18:34 and Psalm 37:15 uses the following word in the Greek:

Psalm 21:12 uses the following word in the Greek:

This would be similar to Ephessians 6:16

However all the above occurrences do NOT use the following occurrence of BOW used in Recelation 6:2. The word bow in the Greek used is:

It is apparently a fabric which 5088 describes as:

What was the word used to promise Noah that God will not flood the world again?

Believe it or not the word used here is the same as the word used in the Psalms:

The same word is used to imply two different figurative meanings, where in Psalms it is used as an instrument of war/strength, and the other as the promise given to Noah.

So how can we definitively say that it is an instrument of war if a word like tox' on (5115) is used?

Here is another commentary on the translation of the word tox' on used in Revelation 6:2:

Not to belabor the point, but if "bow", as used in Revelation 6:2 and defined by Strong's as "the simplest fabric", actually means "rainbow" and should have been translated that way, why in Revelation do we twice find the word "rainbow" actually in the text being translated from a different Greek word.

Here is the link to the commentary:

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2013/tedp34.htm

I think you should dig a bit deeper. I've studied this for the very reason you've quoted above. This is Vine's dictionary:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/Dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=VT0000340#vineDiv

I've researched commentaries also...here are a few:
Barnes:
(3) the bow: “and he that sat on him had a bow.” The bow would be a natural emblem of war - as it was used in war; or of hunting - as it was used for that purpose. It was a common instrument of attack or defense, and seems to have been early invented, for it is found in all rude nations. Compare Genesis 27:3; Genesis 48:22; Genesis 49:24; Joshua 24:12; 1 Samuel 18:4; Psalm 37:15; Isaiah 7:24. The bow would be naturally emblematic of the following things:

(a)War. See the passages above.

(b)Hunting. Tires it was one of the emblems of Apollo as the god of hunting.
(c)The effect of truth - as what secured conquest, or overcame opposition in the heart.
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/view.cgi?bk=65&ch=6

Clarke:
A bow - The preaching of the Gospel, darting conviction into the hearts of sinners.
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/view.cgi?bk=65&ch=6

Critical Commentary On The Whole Bible:
Evidently Christ, whether in person, or by His angel, preparatory to His coming again, as appears from Revelation 19:11, Revelation 19:12.

bow — (Psalm 45:4, Psalm 45:5).

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfb/view.cgi?bk=65&ch=6

John Gill:
and he that sat on him had a bow; with arrows; the bow is the word of the Gospel, and the arrows the doctrines of it; see Habakkuk 3:9; so called for their swift motion, sudden and secret striking, piercing, and penetrating nature, reaching to the very hearts of men; laying open the secret thoughts and iniquity thereof; wounding, and causing them to fall, and submit themselves to the sceptre of Christ's kingdom:

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/geb/view.cgi?bk=65&ch=6

Vincent's Word Studies:
Bow ( τόξον )

See Psalm 45:4, Psalm 45:5; Hebrews 3:8, Hebrews 3:9; Isaiah 41:2; Zechariah 9:13, Zechariah 9:14, in which last passage the figure is that of a great bow which is drawn only by a great exertion of strength, and by placing the foot upon it. Compare Homer's picture of Telemachus' attempt to draw Ulysses' bow:

“And then he took his place

Upon the threshold, and essayed the bow;

And thrice he made the attempt and thrice gave o'er.”

http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/vnt/view.cgi?bk=re&ch=6#1

I've studied it extensively. I will hold it's the bow...a symbol of war.

Straightshot · Aug 10, 2015

"I've studied it extensively. I will hold it's the bow...a symbol of war"

.... but with no arrow

ebedmelech · Aug 10, 2015

Straightshot said:
"I've studied it extensively. I will hold it's the bow...a symbol of war"

.... but with no arrow

Yet He went forth CONQUERING and to CONQUER.

???

Berean777 · Aug 10, 2015

ebedmelech said:
Yet He went forth CONQUERING and to CONQUER.

???

In what context. How did Christ conquer the world?

For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

He went forth conquering and to conquer is pointing to the head of the church our chief priest Jesus Christ. The statement implies not one instant of conquering but a perpetual conquering until.........

1 Corinthians 15:25-27
25For he must reign (conquer) until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.”

Romans 8:37
37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

How is the rider on the white horse going forth to conquering and to conquer as the head of his body?

Through his church, his body of believers.

Zechariah 10:4
From Judah will come the cornerstone, from him the tent peg, from him the battle bow, from him every ruler.

Paul says through the rider of the White horse we are more than conquerors and in Zechariah it gives a chronology where from the cornerstone Jesus Christ the temple builder will emerge to build the Holy Temple not made from human hands and then from the Holy Spirit filled church every ruler/conqueror.

The identity of the rider of the White horse in singular must be our Lord who makes us victors with him.

Straightshot · Aug 11, 2015

"Yet He went forth CONQUERING and to CONQUER."

He still is and will continue .... the Lord knows how to do this thing

He never looses at that which He sets out to do

Christianity is not like the Muslim religion which teaches to kill those who will not submit to Allah .... if you know what I mean

ebedmelech · Aug 12, 2015

Berean777 said:
In what context. How did Christ conquer the world?

For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

He went forth conquering and to conquer is pointing to the head of the church our chief priest Jesus Christ. The statement implies not one instant of conquering but a perpetual conquering until.........

How is the rider on the white horse going forth to conquering and to conquer as the head of his body?

Through his church, his body of believers.

Paul says through the rider of the White horse we are more than conquerors and in Zechariah it gives a chronology where from the cornerstone Jesus Christ the temple builder will emerge to build the Holy Temple not made from human hands and then from the Holy Spirit filled church every ruler/conqueror.

The identity of the rider of the White horse in singular must be our Lord who makes us victors with him.

This is true, but you must also consider more.

Pay attention to what Jesus said when He told the apostles in John 16:33:
33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

The word for "overcome" is the Greek word "nikaō" , the very word translated "conquer" in Revelation 6:2.

Once again, just as Romans 8:37 says:
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

The church is the body of Christ and we conquer through Christ.

Christ said to the church at Laodicea in Revelation 3:21
21 He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Think about that point.

Berean777 · Aug 12, 2015

ebedmelech said:
This is true, but you must also consider more.

Pay attention to what Jesus said when He told the apostles in John 16:33:
33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

The word for "overcome" is the Greek word "nikaō" , the very word translated "conquer" in Revelation 6:2.

Once again, just as Romans 8:37 says:
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

The church is the body of Christ and we conquer through Christ.

Christ said to the church at Laodicea in Revelation 3:21
21 He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Think about that point.

Yes the church is conquering with Christ but the rider in singular is the Lord himself who is conquering through his body of believers because we are his ambassadors.

Remember this verse:

Greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.

So our boasting is of Christ where Christ is our knight in shining armour who rides the White horse. He is leading the spiritual fight while we tag along with him also. Food for thought, Hmmmm.....

ebedmelech · Aug 12, 2015

Berean777 said:
Yes the church is conquering with Christ but the rider in singular is the Lord himself who is conquering through his body of believers because we are his ambassadors.

Remember this verse:

Greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.

Also remember this verse...1 Corinthians 12:27:
27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

The church IS the body of Christ! That's the point. As you said, we are ambassadors...now...what do ambassadors do?

Berean777 said:
So our boasting is of Christ where Christ is our knight in shining armour who rides the White horse. He is leading the spiritual fight while we tag along with him also. Food for thought, Hmmmm.....

Whose talking about boasting? This is about the church, as Christ's body, going forth with the gospel. This is spiritual warfare!

Berean777 · Aug 12, 2015

ebedmelech said:
Also remember this verse...1 Corinthians 12:27:
27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

The church IS the body of Christ! That's the point. As you said, we are ambassadors...now...what do ambassadors do?

Whose talking about boasting? This is about the church, as Christ's body, going forth with the gospel. This is spiritual warfare!

The ambassadors ride alongside the one who sits on the White horse having the crown of righteousness above his head and the promise of God symbolised by the rainbow (fabric).

ebedmelech · Aug 12, 2015

Berean777 said:
The ambassadors ride alongside the one who sits on the White horse having the crown of righteousness above his head and the promise of God symbolised by the rainbow (fabric).

I can't agree. Even the symbolism of Revelation 6:2 points to spiritual warfare...you don't conquer with a fabric. The passage ties back to Zechariah.

One conquers by war. Paul told Timothy to "war a good warfare"...Ephesians 6:10-17.

The Rider Of The White Horse.

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