Anglicans and purgatory ?

Theatreguy18 said:

hi my Anglican brothers and sisters I'm a Roman Catholic I was wondering do u believe in purgatory

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Depends what you mean by "purgatory". That which is described by Benedict in Spe Salvi, for instance, wouldn't be a problem.

Beaker said:

So can you actually GIVE us those scriptures or is what you are saying NOT backed up with proof?

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Here is a link for Catholic Answer that represents several of the verses; http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-purgatory-in-the-bible

And so may you know, for me as Anglo-Catholic, I go by The Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition, and Reason. Which is something I don't think you do.

And just you know, I believe in the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Mother of God. And also her Assumption. Probably the only things that stop me from going to the Catholic Church are the Papacy issue, and how the Mass these days is even less liturgical than many Anglican churches I went to.

RaylightI said:

What "truth" ? That bunch of priests somehow came up together with this evil plan to get some cash ?! There are several early Christian writings from the early Church Fathers who wrote about the purgatory, as a period of time where we are purified. There is no "truth" in all what you said. It is just bunch of anti-Catholic dogma that I really don't want to waste my time on. I've been there, and I've done that.

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LOL gold pure gold....

Talking about fleecing cash from devotees - I visited one of those evangelical mega churches over here in Australia once, there was 45 minutes of music, 10 minutes of biblical teaching that was all over the place and 30 minutes of telling the congregation how blessed they will be if they dive ever deeper into their pockets. I felt more hope when I walked out of that place than what I did when I walked into it.

[QUOTE ] staff edit [/QUOTE]

Of course you allowed your opinion but the arguing with members of this community about the Anglican theology is what is rude in this forum. The following is an extract from the Purpose of the Faith Group sub-forum:

House Rules:

All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

I am not a moderator but I do find your tone to be quite rude...

You have been asked nicely to back off so please do so.

Blessings, Gordon

Theatreguy18 said:

Good point my brother I believe that before death a Christian who has not repented of certain mortal sins goes to a place of purification a purging of sins therefor purgatory the Christian remains there for a time until said mortal sins have been purged from the soul I believe we can pray for these souls and they can pray for us

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The belief of Purgatory suggests that humans have to do something to add to the work Jesus did on the cross.
Either Jesus paid for all sin once for all, or we have to add something to His work.
It is my belief that Jesus's work was total and complete and I can add nothing to it, as can no other human.
Col 2: 13-15 is proof of the work Jesus did.

Col 2: 13　You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14　He cancelled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15　In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.

John Shrewsbury said:

I'm offended because of the way you wrote it. You made it sound as if all Anglo Catholics are only there for the event rather than worship. I am most certainly not, and I would argue strongly that neither were most Anglo Catholics in the "Victorian slums." Please think before posting.

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The early Anglo-Catholics became well-known for preaching and ministering in the slums, however. Most often, that's remembered as a commendable development, but it's true that there was in it an element of what we'd today call social/political activism.

Theatreguy18 said:

Why should the most wicked of sinners be brought forth into heaven from hell there are tons of people " Hitler , Mao , Stalin , Jeffery damer " that should not even be given a chance at paradise they where given there chance on earth

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How do you feel about a mass murderer who repents on their death bed? Do you feel you are more qualified to judge them than God?

Theatreguy18 said:

Unless that murderer confessed to a priest or has perfect contrition they can not be let into heaven but as I said those people are still living people in hell gave up their chance at redemption

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So it seems the only thing we really disagree on than is whether or not God's mercy is limited to the living. A sinner being more awful than another doesn't really factor into it.

This thread has undergone 2 clean ups in two days due to flaming and insulting posts. Please stop being disrespectful to each other.

Purgatory is Roman Catholic dogma. Non-Catholics do not believe it. (To my VERY limited knowledge, there might be SOME Anglo-Catholics that do...but someone can correct me if I am wrong).

See my Post #15 for my continued belief in Purgatory even after leaving RC in 1992. Eastern Orthodox believe in "Stations", which was about the same as Purgatory until they got embarrassed by the similarity and changed what they believe by it. (And what I believe is different than either, it was my "rescue" of Purgatory in 1970 when RC seemed to be rejecting it during post-Vatican II radicalism.)

RileyG said:

Purgatory is Roman Catholic dogma. Non-Catholics do not believe it. (To my VERY limited knowledge, there might be SOME Anglo-Catholics that do...but someone can correct me if I am wrong).

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Some Anglo Catholics do believe in it, yes.

RileyG said:

Purgatory is Roman Catholic dogma. Non-Catholics do not believe it. (To my VERY limited knowledge, there might be SOME Anglo-Catholics that do...but someone can correct me if I am wrong).

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There are "some" self-styled Anglo-Catholics who believe everything that the Roman Catholic Church believes, with the probable exception of Papal Infallibility. That means that any question of this sort automatically gets that footnote, but the bigger question concerns the significance of always having to take note of this piece of trivia in order to be technically accurate.

Maybe, but nuance that by acknowledging that with Papal Infallibility out for Anglo-Catholics, that cuts out the ground from under the 1950 Bodily Assumption of the Virgin Mary and the 1854 Immaculate Conception.
Not that any of such distinctions determine who to vote for, what career to choose, who to marry...

Korah said:

Maybe, but nuance that by acknowledging that with Papal Infallibility out for Anglo-Catholics, that cuts out the ground from under the 1950 Bodily Assumption of the Virgin Mary and the 1854 Immaculate Conception.
Not that any of such distinctions determine who to vote for, what career to choose, who to marry...

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Well, not really. The Papacy maintains that these were merely formalizations of beliefs that had been held by Christians through the ages. Whether or not that's true, the decree is deemed to be infallible but any individual could still buy into the theory that the belief has always been there and is, therefore, to be believed by "Sacred Tradition."

gordonhooker said:

[QUOTE ] staff edit

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Of course you allowed your opinion but the arguing with members of this community about the Anglican theology is what is rude in this forum. The following is an extract from the Purpose of the Faith Group sub-forum:

House Rules:

All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

I am not a moderator but I do find your tone to be quite rude...

You have been asked nicely to back off so please do so.

Blessings, Gordon[/QUOTE]
EVERYONE should be ALLOWED their opinion. You state that you are NOT a moderator, so WHY are you interfering?

Theatreguy18 said:

But one should clarify the the assumption and immaculate conception where already very prominent teachings in the church we can actually trace the believe in the assumption to the 2nd century and the immaculate conception to the 2/3rd

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...which even if we were of the belief that essential doctrine (which is what these are considered to be in the Roman Catholic Church) can be established by custom in the absence of Scriptural backing does not make these two beliefs true by reference to the theory of "Tradition."

That's because it is impossible to determine that they were the belief of the whole church and going back continuously to the beginning of the church. Being "prominent" teachings several centuries after Christ doesn't qualify.

Still, it's not unheard of for an Anglican to believe one or both of them simply because the person involved accepts the claims made for them by the Roman Catholic Church, although not because of the doctrine of Papal Infallibility itself.