Why Stop?

Mr.Cheese

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Often times when I wonder about issues such as this, what is really happening is that I know I don't need to be doing what I'm doing, but I don't want to stop either.
I think it would prudent if you guys could stop having sex because it will help develop other areas of your relationship that have perhaps been overlooked. Plus it eliminates the possibility of pregnancy completely.
It's really nice not having to worry about that.
In the mean time, here's another *hug*
 
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OLDoMiNiON

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Well for Cammie to post an article about how guys don't want to get married for all those different reasons, is judging me and my boyfriend, it doesn't prove that what I'm doing is wrong in God's eyes, its just taking a shot at my relationship based on some survey that generalizes guys.
Yes, please don't feel that i am judging you or your boyfriend, but it does say in the bible that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and i don't think that it is healthy for your relationship to be going against God will, even just on that one issue. Don't you want to know that you please God in everything that you do? I do!!!! It's hard, i admit, but it's doable, in *any* situation!

We can do anything through christ wo gives us strengh! ;)

love in christ
Chris
 
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OracleX

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25th February 2003 at 11:19 AM JillLars said this in Post #20

I am not waiting to hear the answer I want, I am doing some soul searching and looking for the right reason to stop. You know, when I first came here, I decided to stop, but realized I was stopping for all the wrong reasons, now I'm looking for the right reasons. 




I understand your struggle in regaurds to stop having sex.  It is hard and in your currently living setup I would imagine it being next to impossible.  The temptation is just too obvious and great.

You said that you are looking for the right reasons to stop.  Well here it is: because you are sinning against God.  If that is not the right reason than nothing is.  We all struggle with sin and there is sin that we all enjoy.  But if we are committed to God and love Him with all our heart, soul and mind - He can deliver us from anything.  Other reasons to consider too is that many people who have sex before they are married are burdened with guilt.  Guilt can kill love in a heart beat.

As far as getting pregnent, our first child was concived when BC was being used and both our doctors said that we would have difficulty have children.  (Just for the record, we don't regret our wonderful little girl and thank God for the miracle that she is.)  Children do cost a lot.  They will take almost every waking momment of your days.  If you have children, the environment you raise them in is the environment that they easly take as ok.  Socitity teaches our children as best it can how to live immoral lives without us being a prime example of it.

When you say that you have no other possible place to go, you short change God.  If you really wanted to change things and trusted in God to help you, don't you think He would provide for you?  I am sure it is not your intention, but you talk as if God is not big enough to help you.

As few other comments:

  • Are you attending a church?  If not why?
  • Do you have anyone who you are accountable to?  If not why?
  • Do you read you Bible everyday and pray everyday?
  • Is your boy friend a born again Christian?
  • Does your boy friend read and pray everyday?

It basically comes down to this.  Who are you going to serve?  God or yourself.  If you are going to choose God then choose Him completely.  We are to give everything to God, not just the stuff that we want.  Living completely for Christ is not easy and can be full of trials.  But this life is so short, look to eternity and see where you will be if you follow Chirst.  If you choose yourself then ... what you do should not bother you.

You have my prayers and thoughts.

:pray:
 
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seebs

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Today at 05:53 PM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #42 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=680240#post680240)
Yes, please don't feel that i am judging you or your boyfriend, but it does say in the bible that sex outside of marriage is wrong,

Could you point to exactly where it says this? I know it's the commonly accepted conventional wisdom these days, but there's been a few threads about this, and no one's found anything specific. The use of the word "fornication" doesn't tell us much; the word was coined to refer to a Greek word for some kind of sexual immorality, and the Bible never actually breaks it down and gives an exact listing.
 
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OLDoMiNiON

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Will consider this another time as i'm going away in a few minutes... but what about the 10 commandments?!? Do you not commit adultery when you have sex outside of wedlock? Are you not effectively cheeting on your future wife, even though it way be the person you actuallky do marry..?
If the word fornication doesn't mean sex outside marriage, and it only reffers to some sexual acts that are considered wrong, why would sex, the next step, not be a sin?
 
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seebs

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Today at 03:24 AM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #47 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681227#post681227)
Will consider this another time as i'm going away in a few minutes... but what about the 10 commandments?!? Do you not commit adultery when you have sex outside of wedlock? Are you not effectively cheeting on your future wife, even though it way be the person you actuallky do marry..?

The Hebrew rules for what is or isn't adultery are pretty much totally shocking to the modern mind. But no, sex outside of marriage wasn't "adultery" unless you *were* married. You can't break a promise you haven't made yet. Thus "forsaking all others" - marriage is the point at which you definitely stop sleeping with other people.

I would guess that a lot of the concern about virgin brides dates back to the droit de signeur (the right of a local lord in a feudal society to the maidenhead of every bride) and concern over inheritance.

I don't know exactly what God's standards for sexual relationships are; I know that human standards have changed substantially over time, and at any given time, we've always said it was God's will, not our culture, but empirically, most of what we actually practice is cultural.


If the word fornication doesn't mean sex outside marriage, and it only reffers to some sexual acts that are considered wrong, why would sex, the next step, not be a sin?

Well, the canonical example of 'inappropriate contentea' (the Greek word) would be, say, ritual sex. In early usages, it was often seen as basically a form of idolatry.

Most people don't realize how much sex was used as a ritual practice two thousand years ago.

I don't know whether or not all sex outside of marriage is fornication, but the word's original usage had different connotations.
 
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OLDoMiNiON

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Sure, but don't you think we should still abstein from it just in case??!?! ;)
Homosexuality is a tough topic cos the people concerned have absolutely no control over their own sexuality. Yet, with this we do!

In genesis it talks about a mna leaving his father and mother to join his wife, and to "become one". Therefore if by having sex you are becoming one with another gilr, and another, and another, and another, how absolutely scr*wed up is your marriage going to be?! All your relationships add up to affect your marriage relationship, and having previously had sex with maybe 20 partners... how much is your marriage going to be affected?? - Greatly! beause you have given yourself over to many other partners, and have "become one" with all of them. You don't want to have sex with your wife, but be thinking of Betty from High School do you?!? ...and wouldn't that be sin too?
 
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Evening Mist

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In genesis it talks about a mna leaving his father and mother to join his wife, and to "become one". Therefore if by having sex you are becoming one with another gilr, and another, and another, and another, how absolutely scr*wed up is your marriage going to be?! All your relationships add up to affect your marriage relationship, and having previously had sex with maybe 20 partners... how much is your marriage going to be affected?? - Greatly!

I agree with you that this sort of lifestyle is damaging. It certainly would be for me anyway. But Jill isn't asking us about this sort life. She is talking about a man she loves and is comitted to spending her life with. It is still my opinion that the "sin" here would be if they part ways and move onto new partners, because that would do the damage.


Are you not effectively cheeting on your future wife, even though it way be the person you actuallky do marry..?

How can you cheat on someone WITH them?


You said that you are looking for the right reasons to stop. Well here it is: because you are sinning against God.

Respectfully, God doesn't demand that we follow arbitrary rules -- his rules are for our own good, and our own protection. If Jill is married to this guy "in her heart" and he is equally comitted to her, and they have forsaken all others and intend to spend their life together -- I just don't see where the sin is.
 
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OracleX

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I will respond a bit later with scripture but being married in your heart is not the biblical example of marriage. The Bible says that we have a public convenant. As far as sleeping together or living together before marriage the examples in the Bible are also clear on that as well.

The thing is that there doesn't seem to be any guilt or shame or conviction about their actions. It is also of no point to continue if there is no conviction of sin which is also Biblical.

I will respond when i have my lunch break.
 
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hmm........

I can never tell whether this passage is refering to after marriage or before marriage, but I will quote it anyway:

Matthew 5:27-30
27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'
28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.


A guy can't get an errection without lusting first - so, if we take this passage to do with before marriage then pre-marrital sex is wrong even if you love each other.
 
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seebs

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The Bible is full of people who made covenants, and didn't involve human witnesses. I am willing to believe that one witness is enough, if it's God, and I do not recognize the authority of any state to permit or deny such a thing.
 
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First lets get the definitions out of the way.

Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion
Date: 14th century
: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare ADULTERY

Main Entry: adul·tery
Date: 15th century
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery

Main Entry: cov·e·nant
Date: 14th century
1 : a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement
2 b : a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action b : the common-law action to recover damages for breach of such a contract

Now that you understand that fornication is between two persons not married and that adultery is also done with someone that you are not married to. Here are some scriptures that are very clear that these are not good things and are sin and despised by God.

Matthew 15:18-20
But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."


Exodus 20:14 & Deuteronomy 5:18
"You shall not commit adultery."


Proverbs 6:32
"The one who commits adultery with a woman is lacking sense; He who would destroy himself does it."


Hosea 4:1,2
"Listen to the word of the LORD, O sons of Israel, For the LORD has a case against the inhabitants of the land, Because there is no faithfulness or kindness Or knowledge of God in the land. There is swearing, deception, murder, stealing and adultery. They employ violence, so that bloodshed follows bloodshed."


Matthew 5:28
"but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."


1 Corinthians 7:9
"But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."


We could go on an on with more verses but I think that this is clear enough. Fornication is sin. Fornication is sexual relations with someone outside of marriage. Adultery is sin. Lusting for anyone outside of marriage is sin. There is also the story of Jesus with the woman at the well in John 4.

John 4:17,18 “The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."

Jesus says very clearly here that the person that she is living with is not her husband. She is living with him and that does not constitute a marriage.

As far as marriage goes, the Bible is not very clear or specific on what acts need to be done to be married. However, just as the Bible does not say ‘though shalt not listen to rock music,’ you can gather by looking at scripture and the character of God that it is not right. Marriage is the same. There are many verses that speak of marriage but do not speak to that acts that made the two married. But again, taking scripture as a whole and the character of God, we can come to some conclusions about marriage.

Weddings are public events
The Bible talks of weddings and how it was public event where people are invited to witness the covenant between the two getting married.
  • Matthew 22:1-13 is a parable that Jesus tells of a wedding. People are invited, it is an event with many witnesses.
  • John 2:1-12 Jesus is at a wedding because He was invited to it along with many others.
  • Ruth 4:10 Ruth is purchased and is taken as the wife as Boaz in with presence of many witnesses.

There are other passages as well but as you can see, weddings we events that people were invited to and were celebrated things. The taking of a wife was something that there were witnesses to. There are verses that talk of weddings being public events where witnesses gather together. What I was not able to find was verses that said that weddings were secret or hidden or that they just happened in peoples heart. There are passages that don’t give detail as to what happened but the ones that do, they state a public event and witnesses.

Another way to look at this is that in the Bible marriage was binding. A married man or woman just couldn’t walk away from a marriage. They were binded by the covenant that they made when they got married. Here is an example of where one is bond to the covenant of marriage.
Malachi 2:14 “Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.”
Here it talks not about people being witness but God. It also says that there is a covenant between a husband and a wife. Going back to the definition of covenant it is a binding agreement. Also Deuteronomy 24:1,3 talks about a certificate of divorce. Why would you need a certificate of it was never a binding agreement in the first place? Matthew 5:21 states that if anyone sends away his wife that they must send them with a certificate of divorce. Again why bother if there was not a binding agreement? Why all the paperwork? Note that it is a piece of paper, a certificate. It is officially dissolving the marriage agreements between two people. If there is a certificate of divorce that makes the dissolving of a marriage official, wouldn’t it make sense that there is a certificate or a piece of paper making it official between them in the first place? If you are just living with someone, do you have this certificate? If something were to happen and you walked away, would you have a divorce certificate. No, because you we never married in the first place.

If you add it all up you get that marriage is a binding agreement that is witnessed by others and God that has a paper trail. We also see that in most of the references that it is a public event where people are invited and it is a ‘feast.’ So living together before marriage and having sex and loving each other with all your heart does not make you married. And since you are not married then what you are doing is fornication and adultery which is sinning against God.
 
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