#WhitePeople: MTV Premieres Documentary on White Privilege in America

Hank · Jul 29, 2015

WalksWithChrist said:
One thing the video did bring up is how black people are assumed to be "ghetto". I'm a white guy and I've had the "privilege" of never once been referred to as ghetto just because of my race. One girl broke into tears when the term was brought up. That indicates trauma in her past. Something that I know nothing about as a white person.
Outside what the video covered (or not very deeply...if at all, I really don't remember now) is treatment by police. I've seen many instances, just this month, of blacks being arrested for very minor offenses. I've been pulled over so many times and it's always polite, even if I do get a ticket. You can be a black celebrity or even a black cop and get treated terribly by police. So, yes. It's real. And yeah, you must have missed it. lol
That's no insult to you. I lived most of my life not aware of anything like white privilege. It took time for me to investigate it and decide, based on lots of info, that it's a real thing.

As for the young woman, I suspect a hyper sensitive personality only, and a good opportunity to make his (MTV guy) story.
My longest standing business partner is from Jamaica, and loves fancy cars, even a Canadian License plate did not stop the police from flagging him down. I did not believe him, and we drove from Detroit to Cleveland, and got stopped 3 times. Reasons: driving 11 miles over the speed limit, a sudden lane change and driving on the left lane that is reserved for passing cars. To me this is a police issue though. Today he still drives his fancy cars, prejudice or not, cops and anti-black folks can not take that away from him.
[added - he did not get stopped for the last 14 years though, and follows the rules by the letter, now]
Finally, I don't feel insulted. I see the world through my eyes, and I reserved the right to be wrong.

Strathos · Jul 29, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
"White privilege" is as much racial bias as is antisemitism or KKK style hatred of blacks.

Can I hear a resounding chorus of "Seig Heil!?" It is that same old "Master Race" idea but toned down to the point that many cannot see it.

Show me the people who have been hung from trees or shoved into gas chambers for having 'white privilege' and I might take you seriously here.

lunastella · Jul 29, 2015

Red Fox said:
Thank you for your response. Did you watch the video?

I am Native American. It is my race, my nationality, and my heritage. It completely defines me. It is who I am and what I am. I hope that makes sense.

In the video, the director goes to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. I'm very glad to see him talk about and include Native Americans.

I really wish they had spent more time discussing the reservation and talking to the people there.

While I thought the entire documentary was a good starting point, I see it only as a starting point. 40 minutes isn't long enough to unpack all of the issues that need to be discussed.

Hank · Jul 29, 2015

Red Fox said:
So, will someone please show me the nationwide coverage or the public outrage of Native Americans being brutalized by police or dying at the hands of police officers?

Sure, let's hear it.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2228
One can download the pdf table, and the white male hit the jack pot in getting killed by the police.
As I hinted in my previous post, the US may has an police issue, but what ever issue it may be it is not limited to Native Americans.

Crowns&Laurels · Jul 29, 2015

WhitePeople: MTV Premieres Documentary on White Privilege in America

I have a better name-
'WhiteLiberalGuilt: MTV Premieres Documentary on The White Lie About White Privilege In America'

Ken-1122 · Jul 29, 2015

WalksWithChrist said:
One thing the video did bring up is how black people are assumed to be "ghetto". I'm a white guy and I've had the "privilege" of never once been referred to as ghetto just because of my race. One girl broke into tears when the term was brought up. That indicates trauma in her past. Something that I know nothing about as a white person.
Outside what the video covered (or not very deeply...if at all, I really don't remember now) is treatment by police. I've seen many instances, just this month, of blacks being arrested for very minor offenses. I've been pulled over so many times and it's always polite, even if I do get a ticket. You can be a black celebrity or even a black cop and get treated terribly by police. So, yes. It's real. And yeah, you must have missed it. lol
That's no insult to you. I lived most of my life not aware of anything like white privilege. It took time for me to investigate it and decide, based on lots of info, that it's a real thing.

I've never heard a white person called "ghetto" but I've heard plenty of them called "redneck" or "hillbilly". I think it is the same thing.
As a black man, the only time I've ever been followed in a stores or harassed by Police, was when I was in an economically suppressed, high crime neighborhood where not only the majority of the residences were black, but a high number of police, and store employees who assumed I was a criminal were black as well. I've never been treated this way in middle to high income low crime white neighborhoods. This tells me the treatment has more to do with the crime in the neighborhood than racist police officers and business owners.

Ken

Ken-1122 · Jul 30, 2015

OliviaMay said:
I don't take offense at your questions or statement.

I benefit from being white. I can see the benefits I get. People give me the benefit of the doubt. I don't get hassled by police. I don't get profiled in stores. People don't cross to the other side of the street or instincively fear me. It is nice. It makes the day to day easier. It is just all those little things that we get. Is it wrong society is like this. Yep it is, but it isn't like I can give back my privilege. I can only acknowledge it is there.

That isn't an example of White privilege, that is how everybody should be treated. Anybody who is not is being mistreated. You are not experiencing white privilege, you are just not being mistreated.

Ken

Strathos · Jul 30, 2015

Ken-1122 said:
That isn't an example of White privilege, that is how everybody should be treated. Anybody who is not is being mistreated. You are not experiencing white privilege, you are just not being mistreated.

Ken

They're kind of the same thing.

Dave-W · Jul 30, 2015

Ken-1122 said:
I benefit from being white. I can see the benefits I get. People give me the benefit of the doubt. I don't get hassled by police. I don't get profiled in stores. People don't cross to the other side of the street or instinctively fear me. It is nice. It makes the day to day easier. It is just all those little things that we get. Is it wrong society is like this. Yep it is, but it isn't like I can give back my privilege. I can only acknowledge it is there.

Click to expand...

That isn't an example of White privilege, that is how everybody should be treated. Anybody who is not is being mistreated. You are not experiencing white privilege, you are just not being mistreated.

In one sense that is EXACTLY what "white privilege" is all about. EVERYONE should be treated that way; but if you are NOT white then that is not your experience. You DON'T get the benefit of the doubt. You ARE hassled by police. You DO get profiled and are feared by the majority of people.

And that is part of the reason we whites cannot see this subtle form of racism: WE don't experience those DISadvantages day in and day out.

Ken-1122 · Jul 30, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
In one sense that is EXACTLY what "white privilege" is all about. EVERYONE should be treated that way; but if you are NOT white then that is not your experience. You DON'T get the benefit of the doubt. You ARE hassled by police. You DO get profiled and are feared by the majority of people.

And that is part of the reason we whites cannot see this subtle form of racism: WE don't experience those DISadvantages day in and day out.

As I said before, as a black man, I don’t experience those disadvantages day in or day out either unless I am in a high crime neighborhood where most of the residences and cops, are black. When I am in a low crime white neighborhood I am treated like anyone else. This tells me it is more about the high crime in the neighborhood than it is about racism.

Ken

Dave-W · Jul 30, 2015

Ken-1122 said:
As I said before, as a black man, I don’t experience those disadvantages day in or day out either unless I am in a high crime neighborhood where most of the residences and cops, are black. When I am in a low crime white neighborhood I am treated like anyone else. This tells me it is more about the high crime in the neighborhood than it is about racism.

Well, that may be your experience. You are fortunate.

My wife had a good friend back in Michigan when we lived there. She was black and her husband had a high paying job so she had a luxury car. (but not over the top luxurious) EVERY TIME she drove to or thru our little town (which was about 15% black and low crime) she got pulled over. EVERY TIME.

"Show me your license. Insurance card. Registration. Did you steal this car? Did you forge this registration?" and on and on ....

So they call it in and she always came up clean and proper and they let her go. 20 minutes later. Since it was a small town with less than 10 people total in the force, she saw the same cops over and over. Same questions. Over and over.

No white person I ever knew had that problem.

Red Fox · Jul 30, 2015

Hank said:
Sure, let's hear it.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2228
One can download the pdf table, and the white male hit the jack pot in getting killed by the police.
As I hinted in my previous post, the US may has an police issue, but what ever issue it may be it is not limited to Native Americans.

First of all, I never once said that the police issue in this country was limited to Native Americans. And secondly, the statistical tables you cited as a source doesn't mention any Native American statistics as far as I could see. While I'm truly sorry that, at least according to this report, the white male "hit the jack pot in getting killed by police," however, that doesn't negate the fact that the police brutality against Native Americans and the death of many Native Americans at the hands of police doesn't get anywhere near the massive media attention or public outrage that the police brutality against African Americans and the death of many African Americans at the hands of police does. In fact, the police brutality against Native Americans and deaths of Native Americans at the hands of the police barely gets any national news coverage at all, outside the Native news sources. So, I'm not exactly sure what your point was or why you must have thought that posting those arrest-related death statistics could possibly chide me.

Red Fox · Jul 30, 2015

Crowns&Laurels said:
I have a better name-
'WhiteLiberalGuilt: MTV Premieres Documentary on The White Lie About White Privilege In America'

I have a better idea -

Let's not be snide, rude, disrespectful, angry or defensive when we post in this thread.

It is possible to be respectful, rational, and reasonable while we participate in this kind of a discussion.

No one, as far as I'm aware, at least not in this discussion or what I saw in the documentary anyway, has asked or demanded that white people feel guilty for being white, so if a white person does feel guilty for that reason, then it is something personal on their end, and it is possible that it isn't due to the direct fault of someone else.

Ken-1122 · Jul 30, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
Well, that may be your experience. You are fortunate.

My wife had a good friend back in Michigan when we lived there. She was black and her husband had a high paying job so she had a luxury car. (but not over the top luxurious) EVERY TIME she drove to or thru our little town (which was about 15% black and low crime) she got pulled over. EVERY TIME.

"Show me your license. Insurance card. Registration. Did you steal this car? Did you forge this registration?" and on and on ....

So they call it in and she always came up clean and proper and they let her go. 20 minutes later. Since it was a small town with less than 10 people total in the force, she saw the same cops over and over. Same questions. Over and over.

No white person I ever knew had that problem.

I've never been to Michigan so I can't say what goes on there. My experiences have been on the West coast; Washington and California. Perhaps it is different on the west coast than the eastern part of the Country.

Ken
PS are all Cities and towns in Michigan that way or just the one you live in?

Dave-W · Jul 30, 2015

Ken-1122 said:
PS are all Cities and towns in Michigan that way or just the one you live in?

I now live in the Washington DC area. And the town I was in, is extreme southwest lower peninsula Michigan. Outside the greater Detroit area, the state is quite conservative, but Detroit has well over 50% of the population so it often goes democratic. Michigan has many paramilitary militias that oppose the government. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols both had ties to Michigan militias. There is a streak of racism in that radical right mentality. While it is not overt or infects everyone, there is enough of it and wide spread enough to make things very uncomfortable for many people.

Hank · Jul 30, 2015

Red Fox said:
First of all, I never once said that the police issue in this country was limited to Native Americans. And secondly, the statistical tables you cited as a source doesn't mention any Native American statistics as far as I could see. While I'm truly sorry that, at least according to this report, the white male "hit the jack pot in getting killed by police," however, that doesn't negate the fact that the police brutality against Native Americans and the death of many Native Americans at the hands of police doesn't get anywhere near the massive media attention or public outrage that the police brutality against African Americans and the death of many African Americans at the hands of police does. In fact, the police brutality against Native Americans and deaths of Native Americans at the hands of the police barely gets any national news coverage at all, outside the Native news sources. So, I'm not exactly sure what your point was or why you must have thought that posting those arrest-related death statistics could possibly chide me.

Correct. This is due to the sad fact that news only carries what news thinks sells.
White people getting killed by the police, that are supposed to Serve And Protect, is not news.
Native American people getting killed by police is also not news.
Can you see the pattern? It is not a race issue, it is a policing issue. Yet, I have no inside info on how cops are trained to arrest people, and when an event allows for using reasonable force.
However, if you wish to make this a race related issue, similar to the claims by the news media in respect to African Americans, go for it.

Red Fox · Jul 30, 2015

Hank said:
Correct. This is due to the sad fact that news only carries what news thinks sells.
White people getting killed by the police, that are supposed to Serve And Protect, is not news.
Native American people getting killed by police is also not news.
Can you see the pattern? It is not a race issue, it is a policing issue. Yet, I have no inside info on how cops are trained to arrest people, and when an event allows for using reasonable force.
However, if you wish to make this a race related issue, similar to the claims by the news media in respect to African Americans, go for it.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your position here, but since you said it was a police issue and not a racial issue, it sounds to me like you're claiming that there are no racist white police officers who purposely target and racially profile people of color (African Americans, Native Americans, Latinos). I'm not sure if that's your argument or not. If it is, then I will have to firmly disagree with you, particularly because of the various national statistics that have been released testifying to the contrary. There may be a police issue to consider in all of this, but there is also, without a doubt, a very deep ingrained racial issue here too. A very serious racial issue that shouldn't be disregarded.

Hank · Jul 30, 2015

Red Fox said:
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your position here, but since you said it was a police issue and not a racial issue, it sounds to me like you're claiming that there are no racist white police officers who purposely target and racially profile people of color (African Americans, Native Americans, Latinos). I'm not sure if that's your argument or not. If it is, then I will have to firmly disagree with you, particularly because of the various national statistics that have been released testifying to the contrary. There may be a police issue to consider in all of this, but there is also, without a doubt, a very deep ingrained racial issue here too. A very serious racial issue that shouldn't be disregarded.

Well, yes, I disagree with a blank statement like the police are racist (sure some are).That is why I linked to factual stats.
If the police are racists, then why are so many white people in jail and top the numbers in death under their custody?
As for the racist issue in general, I don't ignore this either, all I am trying to accomplish here is to keep things in perspective. If/when a given police officer acted with racist intention, they ought to be prosecuted. But in general, I don't think most of the cops in the US are racists, in this case I use innocent until proven guilty, because some simply try to stay alive for one more day.

Hope this helps. If not, I am gone for three month. Keep strong and fight for your rights.

Red Fox · Jul 30, 2015

By the way, Hank, thank you for sharing your perspective and your opinions in this discussion. I do appreciate it.

Ken-1122 · Jul 30, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
I now live in the Washington DC area. And the town I was in, is extreme southwest lower peninsula Michigan. Outside the greater Detroit area, the state is quite conservative, but Detroit has well over 50% of the population so it often goes democratic. Michigan has many paramilitary militias that oppose the government. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols both had ties to Michigan militias. There is a streak of racism in that radical right mentality. While it is not overt or infects everyone, there is enough of it and wide spread enough to make things very uncomfortable for many people.

I'm not talking about those working outside the law, the West coast has plenty of "thugs" and "Gangmembers", I'm talking about those representing the law. Again; is this type of police harassment normal for all Michigan cities, or are you only speaking for your town

Ken

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