Is Sola Scriptura a Heresy?

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parousia70

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Back in the days when the RC used to kill my brothers and sisters in Christ you could speak for what all Christians believe but thankfully through the work of God overturning the tyranny - today? not so much

All Bible believing Christians are preterist. We only vary by degree.

You must suck at algebra and maths - because A is not at max 10 power something else must be greater than it?

Mine goes to 11

You made the claim that Jesus is not yet fully reigning as King upon David's throne. I have demonstrated that Scripture proves you wrong.
 
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parousia70

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Even when you quote it out and paste it you butcher and maim it. for example Tells us all in Isaiah 13 where the mountains melt and stars are said to fall rather than just not give their light. I'll wait for the verse number. I know it must be there since you admonished me to read it carefully and your post said its there

Well if not Isaiah 13, lets try these previously fulfilled verses:
Psalm 97:5
The mountains melt like wax at the presence of the Lord, At the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 34:3
Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

Micah 1:4
The mountains will melt under Him, And the valleys will split Like wax before the fire, Like waters poured down a steep place.

Nahum 1:5
The mountains quake before Him, The hills melt, And the earth heaves at His presence, Yes, the world and all who dwell in it.

Daniel 8:10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.

The fact is, you take specific apocalyptic language in the OT and interpret it in polar opposite fashion to the same language when you find it in the NT, without any scriptural instruction to do so.

You do so solely because of previously held bias and because you can't let go of un biblical traditions.

I'm confident I've done a good enough job to enlighten our readers to this fact, but I'll add some more for good measure:

Jehovah's OT apocalypses are always described as Jehovah coming down and leading armies, and shooting arrows, and bowing or rolling up the heavens and destroying the earth and such. Those OT events had corresponding judgments on earth, but the Jews knew Jehovah never literally and physically did those things. Yet the prophets spoke in very physical/literal terms about those judgments:

*Yahweh came down and shot his arrows at Saul and his armies, destroying the earth and the heavens at the time (2 Sam 22:8-16)

*Yahweh came down and shot his arrows over Greece and blew His trumpet (Zechariah 9:13-16);

*Yahweh came down riding a cloud to beat up on Egypt (Isa 19:1-2);

*Yahweh made bare his Holy Arm in the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10);

*Yahweh came to the Israelites at Sinai and Seir with Ten Thousand of His Saints and led a march on the fields of Edom (Deut 33:2; Judges 5:4-5);

*Yahweh destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30) and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon (Ezekiel 32:2-8).

So also did Christ do these things when "the Lord of the Vineyard came" in AD 66-70 and was to them the Stone that crushed them to powder and removed the Kingdom of God from them ( Matthew 21:40-45).

Again, not Rocket Surgery or even Brain Science. Just scripture, in context, at face value, applied consistently.

But, feel free to show us where the Bible alone teaches you to interpret "God Rides a swift Cloud" and was "seen by the eyes of all nations" in polar opposite fashion to "He is coming on the clouds and every eye shall see".
 
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LostMarbels

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Now that you know you can respond to my post as to Christians who are alive interceding, will you please reply? Here is the post again:

I don't think we disagree about that. Asking others to pray for us doesn't usurp Jesus' unique role as mediator, right???? That would be one example of intercession that doesn't step on Jesus' role. There are many others, where God uses, i.e. the Church or other people to step in on his behalf for us.

I think that we have to be very careful about what we think is God speaking directly to us. We can be fooled by our own emotions, our own internal dialogue, our own intuition, and psychological phenomena. It is always best to check out what we have been told to see that it agrees with Church teaching such as the Bible.

I did: #370

Im sorry but none of your views make any sense to me. You would have to clarify it for me.

For me this statement is backwards: "It is always best to check out what we have been told to see that it agrees with Church teaching such as the Bible."

My line of thinking: "It is always best to check out what the church has told us to see that it agrees with Jesus's teaching as it is found in the Bible."

I do not believe that any man can interpret the bible for you. You have to have the willingness to study yourself with the holy spirit.
 
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parousia70

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I did: #370

I do not believe that any man can interpret the bible for you. You have to have the willingness to study yourself with the holy spirit.

So all those Christians for the first 1500 years who couldn't read or if they could didn't have access to the scriptures for personal study before the advent of the printing press were simply out of luck?
 
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LostMarbels

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If it's such an affront to God, why are these heavenly beings "interceding" to offer up other peoples prayers to Him, right upon His heavenly altar??

Job 4:15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
Job 4:16 It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:


Job 5:1 Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
Job 5:2 For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
Job 5:3 I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
Job 5:4 His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.

Job 15:15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
Job 15:16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?

Those in the body of Christ are the saints.
Eph_4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

We are commissioned to become saints by not being over come by sin.
Eph_5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

We are to pray FOR the saints not TO them so they can pray for us.
Eph_6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;





And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

I believe it, Do you?
Yes
 
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LostMarbels

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So all those Christians for the first 1500 years who couldn't read or if they could didn't have access to the scriptures for personal study before the advent of the printing press were simply out of luck?

Why do you think God, your creator is not able to convey his message without your logic?

Take a deaf, blind, mute that has never been communicated to ever in his life. Can God communicate to this man?
 
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parousia70

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Why do you think God, your creator is not able to convey his message without your logic?

I don't think that. Seemed to me you claimed that the only way to understanding right doctrine is through personal study of the scriptures. I'm heartened to see You don't believe that.

Take a deaf, blind, mute that has never been communicated to ever in his life. Can God communicate to this man?
Well sure, but the more likely scenerio is that other people would establish a line of communication with him before God does...Where is this man and how did he come to be without being communicated to in some way by his/her parents, teachers, family etc...? there are many ways to communicate.. the deaf blind mute can be communicated with through smell and touch for example....Can he be taught Braille?

Your fallacious person simply doesn't exist.
 
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parousia70

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We are to pray FOR the saints not TO them so they can pray for us.
Eph_6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints

Agreed.
Do you believe this admonition for us cease to be in effect after we physically die, or are the Living dead in Christ supposed to continue to perform this Holy task?
 
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LostMarbels

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I don't think that. Seemed to me you claimed that the only way to understanding right doctrine is through personal study of the scriptures. I'm heartened to see You don't believe that.

Knowledge is promised to any who ask. You do not have to read if you can watch Jesus.

The other thing to note is what Jesus christ spoke about doctrine: Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Well sure, but the more likely scenerio is that other people would establish a line of communication with him before God does...Where is this man and how did he come to be without being communicated to in some way by his/her parents, teachers, family etc...? there are many ways to communicate.. the deaf blind mute can be communicated with through smell and touch for example....Can he be taught Braille?

Your fallacious person simply doesn't exist.

How can you teach what a smell or touch is to a person that cannot see to read, or hear to be explained to? If you give him braille it would be nothing more than a bumppy piece of paper. And yes they do exist. Helen Keller was a deaf, blind, mute. She was however not as such at birth. But back to the question. Can God speak directly to an individual that can not be spoken to by any other?
 
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LostMarbels

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Agreed.
Do you believe this admonition for us cease to be in effect after we physically die, or do the Living dead in Christ continue to perform this Holy task?

Mat_8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Mat_22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


Mar 12:24-27 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Jesus is not the God of the dead. Those who are dead, are dead. They do not pray for us, and praying to them is just blasphemous.


 
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parousia70

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Knowledge is promised to any who ask. You do not have to read if you can watch Jesus.

The other thing to note is what Jesus christ spoke about doctrine: Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

So you are arguing against Sola Scriptura? Your position is that studying the scriptures for ones self is not necessary for one to receive, understand, and live by "correct" doctrine?

How can you teach what a smell or touch is to a person that cannot see to read, or hear to be explained to?
A deaf Blind Mute Baby can still learn about love from the warmth of his mothers Bosom can it not?
And yes they do exist. Helen Keller was a deaf, blind, mute. She was however not as such at birth.
And yet Helen Keller was taught to read and write by another human being....

But back to the question. Can God speak directly to an individual that can not be spoken to by any other?

Already answered the first time you asked. Sure.
 
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parousia70

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Mat_8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Mat_22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


Mar 12:24-27 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Jesus is not the God of the dead. Those who are dead, are dead. They do not pray for us, and praying to them is just blasphemous.

OK, but in your post #385 you agreed that those who are physically dead in Christ are in actuality NOT DEAD, so such admonition would not apply to them now would it?
 
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parousia70

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Physical Death is a tool God created in the beginning to bring Human Beings into the Deepest possible level of existence in relationship with Him.

Spiritual Death is separation from God, and came in as a result of the fall, rendering physical death from that point to the Cross to be an uncrossable gulf between Man and God. The Cross of course Bridged that gulf and restored physical death to it's original purpose from that point forward.

The 2nd Death is the Eternal conscious punishment of the unregenerate in the LOF.
 
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LostMarbels

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You know the answer.
Yes I do... but that doesn't answer my question: Physical death, Spiritual death, and the second death. What are they? Are they in any way different?

The reason I bring this up is this statement:
upload_2015-7-29_14-13-40.png


I assure you... dead people are most certainly dead. At the moment of death their fate is sealed. They have already chosen heaven or hell and are awaiting judgement.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Physical death, Spiritual death, and the second death. What are they? Are they in any way different?

I have seen that term mentioned a few times on CF and found a thread on that topic:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/spiritually-dead.7896191/

What do you think "spiritually dead" means?
This favorite spirit led commentator of mine also mentioned that term:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/lb/LB1.htm

*SNIP*

........ Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order.
However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and
spiritual death.


.
 
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parousia70

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I assure you... dead people are most certainly dead. At the moment of death their fate is sealed. They have already chosen heaven or hell and are awaiting judgement.

John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
 
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LostMarbels

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John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Not as I believe you are presenting it. I will die. All of us are. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. I do not find any evidence of dead people praying for the living, nor the living being commanded to pray to the dead.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Not as I believe you are presenting it. I will die. All of us are. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
I do not find any evidence of dead people praying for the living, nor the living being commanded to pray to the dead.
Must be a Catholic thang.......

Act 2:29
“Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Rom 6:4
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
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