Pre-Mil Only The Messiah Is Coming ...

Ronald · Jul 24, 2015

An old ultra-orthodox Rabbi said, The Messiah is coming, we need to call all the Jews back to Israel. One Rabbi asked him, "I have 700 students, what should I do about them?" He said, "Bring them too!" He was asked when will the Messiah come? He said at
the end of the Sabbatical Year -- which ends on Sept. 12, 2015. He gave scriptural references of the gathering of Jews back home. (see article below)
Is it a coincidence that a partial Solar Eclipse will be visible in Israel on the 13th, (which starts on the evening of the 12th and which happens to fall on Rosh HaShanah) and then followed two weeks later by a Super Blood Moon, (the only one in the tetrad that is visible in Israel) and falling on a High Holy Day, Yom Kippur. Note that historically, the Jews in Israel viewed blood moons that fell on Holy Days as signs, warnings that war was imminent.
Is it also a coincidence that Sept. 20th happens to be the end of the 60-day Congressional review of this Iranian Deal?
I've studied eschatology for a long time but never paid attention to anything Rabbis said, nor do I recall them ever prophesying any event. They do anticipate the Messiah coming, yet do not know that He is Jesus. They will though, Romans 11 tells us that the veil will be lifted over their blinded eyes and when they will see Him, they will mourn. I can't imagine how they will feel when they realize that for almost 2000 years, they've rejected Him.
Coupled with the books and reports by key economists (Weidemer, Rickards and Stansberry), who all are predicting an economic collapse within the year, this may be it. I am not setting dates, this Rabbi seems to be though and who better to warn Jews to repent and prepare for the Messiah's return then a Rabbi?
This means, we can be two months away from the beginning of the Great Tribulation Period, in other words, Hell on Earth. It also means our resurrection is near.
I examined these Jewish holidays. Rosh HaShanah is a day of repentance, a time to ask for forgiveness and also a period of judgment. The Feast of Trumpets accompanies this holy day and continues for ten days during which time the books are opened and examined to see who is written in the Book of Life and who is not. On Yom Kippur, Sept. 22/23, they are sealed. I would discern that this sealing coincides with the 144,000 virgin males (Rev.14:3,4) who will be sealed along with the remnant 1/3 Jews together and this sealing, by the Holy Spirit, will take place prior to the destruction on earth. "... Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants or our God on their foreheads." Rev.7:3
This remnant of Israel will be protected during the GT, but will not be transformed as we will be.
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/4...ah-imminent-jewish-world/#hYuCdDkjIUbxQgMD.97

Straightshot · Jul 24, 2015

What you say above is correct ..... and the 70th week decreed for Israel [the time of Jacob's trouble could break out before this day is over .... this is at the door, but will not begin until the Lord is ready

However, as you most likely know, the Lord has not revealed His dating of the time to any

The current setting in the Middle East is daunting and will lead up to the balanced of the fulfillment of the visions of the prophets .... no doubt

Douggg · Jul 24, 2015

Ronald said:
An old ultra-orthodox Rabbi said, The Messiah is coming, we need to call all the Jews back to Israel. One Rabbi asked him, "I have 700 students, what should I do about them?" He said, "Bring them too!" He was asked when will the Messiah come? He said at
the end of the Sabbatical Year -- which ends on Sept. 12, 2015. He gave scriptural references of the gathering of Jews back home. (see article below)
Is it a coincidence that a partial Solar Eclipse will be visible in Israel on the 13th, (which starts on the evening of the 12th and which happens to fall on Rosh HaShanah) and then followed two weeks later by a Super Blood Moon, (the only one in the tetrad that is visible in Israel) and falling on a High Holy Day, Yom Kippur. Note that historically, the Jews in Israel viewed blood moons that fell on Holy Days as signs, warnings that war was imminent.
Is it also a coincidence that Sept. 20th happens to be the end of the 60-day Congressional review of this Iranian Deal?
I've studied eschatology for a long time but never paid attention to anything Rabbis said, nor do I recall them ever prophesying any event. They do anticipate the Messiah coming, yet do not know that He is Jesus. They will though, Romans 11 tells us that the veil will be lifted over their blinded eyes and when they will see Him, they will mourn. I can't imagine how they will feel when they realize that for almost 2000 years, they've rejected Him.
Coupled with the books and reports by key economists (Weidemer, Rickards and Stansberry), who all are predicting an economic collapse within the year, this may be it. I am not setting dates, this Rabbi seems to be though and who better to warn Jews to repent and prepare for the Messiah's return then a Rabbi?
This means, we can be two months away from the beginning of the Great Tribulation Period, in other words, Hell on Earth. It also means our resurrection is near.
I examined these Jewish holidays. Rosh HaShanah is a day of repentance, a time to ask for forgiveness and also a period of judgment. The Feast of Trumpets accompanies this holy day and continues for ten days during which time the books are opened and examined to see who is written in the Book of Life and who is not. On Yom Kippur, Sept. 22/23, they are sealed. I would discern that this sealing coincides with the 144,000 virgin males (Rev.14:3,4) who will be sealed along with the remnant 1/3 Jews together and this sealing, by the Holy Spirit, will take place prior to the destruction on earth. "... Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants or our God on their foreheads." Rev.7:3
This remnant of Israel will be protected during the GT, but will not be transformed as we will be.
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/4...ah-imminent-jewish-world/#hYuCdDkjIUbxQgMD.97

Ronald, the first question to ask is what exactly is the rabbi's basis for the messiah's coming is imminent to happen this fall? I read the article and no specifics are given.

Of course what he says doesn't mean anything anyway - that their perceived messiah, the Antichrist, will come this fall, because he is not a Christian and has rejected the truth - so he has no full understanding of the end times.

The person who becomes the Antichrist, their perceived messiah, first has to come to power as the little horn, which itself cannot happen until the ten king (leader) kingdom of Daniel 7 has materialized.

Then after he becomes the leader of that kingdom, after a period of time, Gog/Magog has to develop and take place. After that, due to the events of Gog/Magog, the person will be perceived as the Jews long awaited messiah.

Are all those things going to happen between now and October?

Well, the first thing has to happen first - and that is the EU must transform its government to a 10 leader fiscal union. The debt crisis in Greece and to the euro imo is the catalyst that will eventually make it happen, perhaps very shortly. The EU is what is to watch.

The one thing that is of importance regarding the rabbi's proclamation is that it prepares the Jews' mindset to get a case of messiah-fever, which will be at a high following Gog/Magog, because they themselves at their websites believe the messianic era to be following Gog/Magog.

Dave Watchman · Jul 24, 2015

Douggg said:
Are all those things going to happen between now and October?
googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1431698694306-1'); });
Well, the first thing has to happen first - and that is the EU must transform its government to a 10 leader fiscal union.

I don't know Doug, are you sure all that stuff has to be in place before the trib begins?

What if those ten kings don't come along until the last "hour" of the trib?

It just looks like you've got a long list of things we're supposed to see on TV before the trib can begin.

Douggg · Jul 24, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
I don't know Doug, are you sure all that stuff has to be in place before the trib begins?

What if those ten kings don't come along until the last "hour" of the trib?

It just looks like you've got a long list of things we're supposed to see on TV before the trib can begin.

If by "trib" you mean the beginning of the 70th week, then yes, very certain.

The "long" list is actually three things.

1. The ten king kingdom must be made manifest.
2. The little horn come to power to be the leader of it.
3. Gog/Magog must then take place.

Following Gog/Magog, the person will become the Antichrist, the King of Israel. He confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for seven years, by overseeing the Deuteronomy 31:9-13 commemorative reading of the law to the nation of Israel, a 7 year cycle written in the text. That's what begins the 70th week.

3 1/2 years later, the Revelation 17 reference is when the person has ended the Antichrist stage, and has entered the revealed man of sin stage, which he becomes the beast of Revelation. Rejected by Israel, as no longer their king, he reverts back to his original European power base, which the ten kings buy into his claim of having achieved God-hood. That arrangement continues through the great tribulation 42 months until the end of the 70th week with the return of Jesus.

Dave Watchman · Jul 24, 2015

Douggg said:
1. The ten king kingdom must be made manifest.
2. The little horn come to power to be the leader of it.
3. Gog/Magog must then take place.

Following Gog/Magog, the person will become the Antichrist, the King of Israel. He confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for seven years, by overseeing the Deuteronomy 31:9-13 commemorative reading of the law to nation of Israel, a 7 year cycle written in the text. That what begins the 70th week.

Well that sure is a load off of my mind, I had been taking a stroke thinking that the tribulation could begin this weekend.

Douggg · Jul 24, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
Well that sure is a load off of my mind, I had been taking a stroke thinking that the tribulation could begin this weekend.

Well let's turn all this to a positive....

"Look up for your redemption draws near..."

Ronald · Jul 25, 2015

Straightshot said:
What you say above is correct ..... and the 70th week decreed for Israel [the time of Jacob's trouble could break out before this day is over .... this is at the door, but will not begin until the Lord is ready

However, as you most likely know, the Lord has not revealed His dating of the time to any

The current setting in the Middle East is daunting and will lead up to the balanced of the fulfillment of the visions of the prophets .... no doubt

I don't adhere to the 70th week of Daniel "Gap theory". I believe the 70 weeks was a time line directing the reader to determine when Christ would come the first time. I realize that many Pre-Tribers think otherwise. I'm a Mid-Triber btw. I do believe that we are taken out at the 7th Trumpet (the last) and so will have to persevere part of the GT .. unless of course the trumpets are all blown during the feast of trumpets. If that is the case then we are just shown them individually to understand what events are tied each one and not that all the events must be complete until the next trumpet is blown. This is a big topic of course that I've posted numerous times about and we can go round and round about with it, but I just thought it was interesting that a Rabbi had apparently a dream or a vision. Is that impossible? Yes and appropriate. All the Prophets were Jews and they don't go around prophesying without reason or just to sell a book, like many Protestants have falsely done. They mean well, but it is as I said, a purpose of God and a promise that these remnant Jews (according to Rom. 11 and Rev. 7 & 14) be sealed just prior to the GT.

AlasBabylon · Jul 25, 2015

Ronald said:
An old ultra-orthodox Rabbi said, The Messiah is coming, we need to call all the Jews back to Israel.

There are lots of prophecies in the Bible... are they sure they know which prophecy that fulfills.

Reminds me of what the oracle at Delphi told Croesus... if he attacked the Persians he would destroy an empire.

.

Ronald · Jul 25, 2015

Douggg said:
Ronald, the first question to ask is what exactly is the rabbi's basis for the messiah's coming is imminent to happen this fall? I read the article and no specifics are given.

Of course what he says doesn't mean anything anyway - that their perceived messiah, the Antichrist, will come this fall, because he is not a Christian and has rejected the truth - so he has no full understanding of the end times.

The person who becomes the Antichrist, their perceived messiah, first has to come to power as the little horn, which itself cannot happen until the ten king (leader) kingdom of Daniel 7 has materialized.

Then after he becomes the leader of that kingdom, after a period of time, Gog/Magog has to develop and take place. After that, due to the events of Gog/Magog, the person will be perceived as the Jews long awaited messiah.

Are all those things going to happen between now and October?

Well, the first thing has to happen first - and that is the EU must transform its government to a 10 leader fiscal union. The debt crisis in Greece and to the euro imo is the catalyst that will eventually make it happen, perhaps very shortly. The EU is what is to watch.

The one thing that is of importance regarding the rabbi's proclamation is that it prepares the Jews' mindset to get a case of messiah-fever, which will be at a high following Gog/Magog, because they themselves at their websites believe the messianic era to be following Gog/Magog.

What is the basis for any dream or vision from God? Did they ask Isaiah, what do you base your words from God on ... or how do you prove it? Old Testament prophets were put to the test for sure. The test was that they would have to prophesy not just events far beyond their lifetimes but something that would happen soon. The test was if they said anything that did not come to pass, they were stoned to death. 100% accuracy was required. These Rabbi took it seriously. If present day scholars thought that if they one thing they predicted did not come to pass, he would be killed, I think they 95% of them would be silent about the end times.
You are wrong about their perceptions about the Messiah. Though they believe that He is not Jesus does not negate God's word in Rom. 11 and Rev. 7 & 14 where it says that a remnant (including the 144k) will be saved. The veil will be lifted from their spiritual blindness. They believe everything about the Messiah in the OT although their discernment is not accurate - because God blinded them.
So, you are off on a rant about the Antichrist. The Antichrist is not only against Christ but against the Jews and today we see that very clearly. Let me ask you this, if Satan could be manifest as a Beast and this Beast with 7 heads (nations) and 10 horns (kings/presidents/Ayatollah), what would this Beast look like TODAY, RIGHT NOW? The answer is Islam, not the EU or the US. This idea that a revised Roman Empire will return as the BEAST is speculative and unsubstantiated. The EU does not attack Jews and Christians, nor does the US. Yes we are attacked verbally and are rights are being eroded, (family under attack with Gay marriage, abortion) but they aren't chopping our heads off and raping and murdering us ... yet. This is why I look at Islam. It has always been antichristian and anti-Semitic since it's beginning. Buddhist or Hindus don't persecute Jews or Christians. Ok, we do have the Liberals, atheists, etc. who resent us. But again, who is the major evil presence in the world today
Just look at what has happened in the Arab Spring. Tunisia, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. all within months, revolts, and their leaders plucked out. These are the 3 horns that were plucked out, Mubarek, Qudafi, Saddam. The Little horn will not be a Jew, he is a Muslim, and he is about to Persecute the entire Middle East. Actually, Iran has funded terrorism: Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaida, etc. The Beast is not united, it is part iron and part clay as Iran = iron, ISIS = Clay. But they have the same purpose, Death to Israel, death to U.S. and convert the world to Islam. What more proof do we need to identify this Beast?
Not all events will happen before October, I do know if any will. I'm just pointing out the prophecy of a key Rabbi, Solar and Lunar Eclipses that fall on high holy days and that war may be imminent. Yom Kippur would be the day of sealing of the remnant before the GT so all I'm saying is that it may start soon after the final Blood Moon on Sept 28.
Again all you guys are fixed on this EU becoming the BEAST. Putin is led by Satan and so are many who display his fruit. But the fruit of the EU does not resemble Satan nearly as much as the fruit of Islam. Our nation and the world is corrupt for sure and now the final straw that broke the camels back (Same Sex Marriage) backed by an evil President and SCOTUS and much of Congress have reached our time to be judged. Do you think Obama could be the antichrist? I just think he is a pawn who is blind to the will of God and follows after the dreams of his father and his mentors. He is winging it and naïve, actually believing what he is doing is great. He's a Marxist, but he's not chopping peoples heads off.

If all this is not enough to confirm that Islam is the Beast, read this:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been BEHEADED FOR THEIR WITNESS TO JESUS AND FOR THE WORD OF GOD, WHO HAD NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST OR HIS IMAGE and had not received the mark on their foreheads or on their hands ... Rev.20:4
Beheading IS HIS SIGNATURE for those who will not convert.

AlasBabylon · Jul 25, 2015

Ronald said:
Putin is led by Satan and so are many who display his fruit.

.

What fruit is that ?

.

Douggg · Jul 25, 2015

Ronald said:
What is the basis for any dream or vision from God? Did they ask Isaiah, what do you base your words from God on ... or how do you prove it? Old Testament prophets were put to the test for sure. The test was that they would have to prophesy not just events far beyond their lifetimes but something that would happen soon. The test was if they said anything that did not come to pass, they were stoned to death. 100% accuracy was required. These Rabbi took it seriously. If present day scholars thought that if they one thing they predicted did not come to pass, he would be killed, I think they 95% of them would be silent about the end times.

Are you saying the rabbi had a dream as the basis for his proclamation that the messiah would arrive this fall? If so, then copy and paste the exact sentence(s) from that article stating so. I didn't see it in the article.

Right now, as far as I can tell, his basis wasn't stated.

You are wrong about their perceptions about the Messiah. Though they believe that He is not Jesus does not negate God's word in Rom. 11 and Rev. 7 & 14 where it says that a remnant (including the 144k) will be saved. The veil will be lifted from their spiritual blindness. They believe everything about the Messiah in the OT although their discernment is not accurate - because God blinded them.

I almost don't know where to start. You are so un-knowledgeable

. Messiah, the word, goes back to the Hebrew word for anointed. The priests and kings were anointeds back in the Tanach days. "The" messiah is a special anointed. He is to be descended from King David, and was promised to the Jews to be the great King of Israel, to lead them and the world into the messianic age, which the Jews call the redemption. The Jews in the four gospels rejected Jesus as being that King. And are looking for another.

The Jews don't believe that messiah means "Savior from our sins". "The" messiah to them means "King of Israel". In Mark 15:32, Christ means King of Israel. 32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

I have made over 4000 posts in discussion, over the course of ten years, with Jews themselves at their (Judaism) sites to understand what they believe. As a result, I have become very knowledgeable on what they believe. You can go to this site http://messiahtruth.yuku.com/forums/1/CounterMissionary-Forum#.VbQUIPk71LE ; my screen name there is "Douggg" same as here. Find any post there by me, and it will show the number of posts which at that site alone is over 2900 posts.

Here is a good link for you to go to learn up on the mashiach, what the jews believe http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

So, you are off on a rant about the Antichrist. The Antichrist is not only against Christ but against the Jews and today we see that very clearly. Let me ask you this, if Satan could be manifest as a Beast and this Beast with 7 heads (nations) and 10 horns (kings/presidents/Ayatollah), what would this Beast look like TODAY, RIGHT NOW? The answer is Islam, not the EU or the US. This idea that a revised Roman Empire will return as the BEAST is speculative and unsubstantiated.

I wasn't making a rant. I wasn't angry about anything. Using all caps in my post - like somebody

.

The beast is a term used in Revelation. That term is found active in Revelation 13, with 42 months left in the 7 years. So we don't have a picture of the beast right now.

At any rate, the beast is not a muslim because it is against the very fundamental premise of Islam to worship a man claiming to be God - which the beast requires.

The EU does not attack Jews and Christians, nor does the US.

Well we are not at that point in time yet. The bible in Revelation 13:8 says the whole world worships the beast except them who's names are written in the book of life.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes we are attacked verbally and are rights are being eroded, (family under attack with Gay marriage, abortion) but they aren't chopping our heads off and raping and murdering us ... yet. This is why I look at Islam. It has always been antichristian and anti-Semitic since it's beginning. Buddhist or Hindus don't persecute Jews or Christians. Ok, we do have the Liberals, atheists, etc. who resent us. But again, who is the major evil presence in the world today
Just look at what has happened in the Arab Spring. Tunisia, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. all within months, revolts, and their leaders plucked out. These are the 3 horns that were plucked out, Mubarek, Qudafi, Saddam. The Little horn will not be a Jew, he is a Muslim, and he is about to Persecute the entire Middle East. Actually, Iran has funded terrorism: Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaida, etc. The Beast is not united, it is part iron and part clay as Iran = iron, ISIS = Clay. But they have the same purpose, Death to Israel, death to U.S. and convert the world to Islam. What more proof do we need to identify this Beast?
Not all events will happen before October, I do know if any will. I'm just pointing out the prophecy of a key Rabbi, Solar and Lunar Eclipses that fall on high holy days and that war may be imminent. Yom Kippur would be the day of sealing of the remnant before the GT so all I'm saying is that it may start soon after the final Blood Moon on Sept 28.
Again all you guys are fixed on this EU becoming the BEAST. Putin is led by Satan and so are many who display his fruit. But the fruit of the EU does not resemble Satan nearly as much as the fruit of Islam. Our nation and the world is corrupt for sure and now the final straw that broke the camels back (Same Sex Marriage) backed by an evil President and SCOTUS and much of Congress have reached our time to be judged. Do you think Obama could be the antichrist? I just think he is a pawn who is blind to the will of God and follows after the dreams of his father and his mentors. He is winging it and naïve, actually believing what he is doing is great. He's a Marxist, but he's not chopping peoples heads off.

If all this is not enough to confirm that Islam is the Beast, read this:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been BEHEADED FOR THEIR WITNESS TO JESUS AND FOR THE WORD OF GOD, WHO HAD NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST OR HIS IMAGE and had not received the mark on their foreheads or on their hands ... Rev.20:4
Beheading IS HIS SIGNATURE for those who will not convert.

Ronald, there is a tag available "Antichrist - a muslim" . While I personally don't subscribe to that theory, I recognize that many many Christians hold that view. I am just saying it is available if you don't want someone like me posting against the notion, if want to have a discussion on the topic with other like minded posters.

A muslim cannot be the Antichrist because because the person to become the King of Israel, instead of Jesus the rightful King of Israel, has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism.

In Revelation, the person is not called the Antichrist in the text because Chapter 13 is after his stint of being the Antichrist is over, as the Jews will have rejected him as continuing as their King of Israel at that point in time.

And again a muslim cannot be the beast because it is fundamental against the tenants of Islam to worship a man claiming to be God. For your view to come to pass, it would mean that Islam rejects Jesus as God, but embraces some forth coming man as God - does that make sense to you?

So my point is that a muslim (1) can't be the Antichrist and (2) can't be the beast.

bibletruth469 · Jul 26, 2015

Dave Watchman said:
I don't know Doug, are you sure all that stuff has to be in place before the trib begins?

What if those ten kings don't come along until the last "hour" of the trib?

It just looks like you've got a long list of things we're supposed to see on TV before the trib can begin.

The tribulation begins when the Antichrist confirms the covenant with many, Daniel 9:27, for one week( 7 years). I believe the 10 kings must be set in place before the tribulation can begin. One must read Daniel chapter 7 to understand the complete prophecy. Look at Daniel 7: 24-25." And the 10 horns out of this kingdom are 10 kings that shall arise: and another shall arise after them; and shall be diverse from the first, and shall subdue 3 kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and dividing of time".

Douggg · Jul 26, 2015

bibletruth469 said:
The tribulation begins when the Antichrist confirms the covenant with many, Daniel 9:27, for one week( 7 years). I believe the 10 kings must be set in place before the tribulation can begin. One must read Daniel chapter 7 to understand the complete prophecy. Look at Daniel 7: 24-25." And the 10 horns out of this kingdom are 10 kings that shall arise: and another shall arise after them; and shall be diverse from the first, and shall subdue 3 kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and dividing of time".

Yes. And that time, times, and half times is the second half of the 7 years, equating to the time, times, and half times of Revelation 12:14.

The only thing that Daniel 7 could confuse some people on is that it is not said in text, it is the same person - but will be the beast when that time, times, and half times is in progress.

Ronald · Jul 26, 2015

AlasBabylon said:
What fruit is that ?

.

Evil, the opposite of the Fruit of the Spirit

Ronald · Jul 26, 2015

Douggg said:
Are you saying the rabbi had a dream as the basis for his proclamation that the messiah would arrive this fall? If so, then copy and paste the exact sentence(s) from that article stating so. I didn't see it in the article.

Right now, as far as I can tell, his basis wasn't stated.

I almost don't know where to start. You are so un-knowledgeable . Messiah, the word, goes back to the Hebrew word for anointed. The priests and kings were anointeds back in the Tanach days. "The" messiah is a special anointed. He is to be descended from King David, and was promised to the Jews to be the great King of Israel, to lead them and the world into the messianic age, which the Jews call the redemption. The Jews in the four gospels rejected Jesus as being that King. And are looking for another.

The Jews don't believe that messiah means "Savior from our sins". "The" messiah to them means "King of Israel". In Mark 15:32, Christ means King of Israel. 32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

I have made over 4000 posts in discussion, over the course of ten years, with Jews themselves at their (Judaism) sites to understand what they believe. As a result, I have become very knowledgeable on what they believe. You can go to this site http://messiahtruth.yuku.com/forums/1/CounterMissionary-Forum#.VbQUIPk71LE ; my screen name there is "Douggg" same as here. Find any post there by me, and it will show the number of posts which at that site alone is over 2900 posts.

Here is a good link for you to go to learn up on the mashiach, what the jews believe http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

I wasn't making a rant. I wasn't angry about anything. Using all caps in my post - like somebody .

The beast is a term used in Revelation. That term is found active in Revelation 13, with 42 months left in the 7 years. So we don't have a picture of the beast right now.

At any rate, the beast is not a muslim because it is against the very fundamental premise of Islam to worship a man claiming to be God - which the beast requires.

Well we are not at that point in time yet. The bible in Revelation 13:8 says the whole world worships the beast except them who's names are written in the book of life.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Ronald, there is a tag available "Antichrist - a muslim" . While I personally don't subscribe to that theory, I recognize that many many Christians hold that view. I am just saying it is available if you don't want someone like me posting against the notion, if want to have a discussion on the topic with other like minded posters.

A muslim cannot be the Antichrist because because the person to become the King of Israel, instead of Jesus the rightful King of Israel, has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism.

In Revelation, the person is not called the Antichrist in the text because Chapter 13 is after his stint of being the Antichrist is over, as the Jews will have rejected him as continuing as their King of Israel at that point in time.

And again a muslim cannot be the beast because it is fundamental against the tenants of Islam to worship a man claiming to be God. For your view to come to pass, it would mean that Islam rejects Jesus as God, but embraces some forth coming man as God - does that make sense to you?

So my point is that a muslim (1) can't be the Antichrist and (2) can't be the beast.

Ronald · Jul 26, 2015

"I have over 4000 posts for ten years ... am very knowledgeable ... bla, bla, bla" What pride you have and arrogance. Please don't try to educate me with your Pre-Trib view or what the Messiah means to the Jews. I am just reporting a prophecy, which was uttered by a Rabbi; (a prophecy that apparently he believes is from God - whether from a dream or vision) and some other currents events that will soon be visible to Israel! I've done my share of studying scripture for 24 years and have written a book on Christianity btw which contains some 570 scriptures, while drawing from seven different translations. If you think you know how the Great Tribulation is all going to unfold, then excuse yourself from this thread, since you think I don't know what I'm talking about. Simply, don't waste your time with my posts and I won't waste anymore time with you. Go in peace. God Bless

Armoured · Jul 26, 2015

The Messiah Is Coming ...

So everyone look busy!

Ronald · Jul 26, 2015

bibletruth469 said:
The tribulation begins when the Antichrist confirms the covenant with many, Daniel 9:27, for one week( 7 years). I believe the 10 kings must be set in place before the tribulation can begin. One must read Daniel chapter 7 to understand the complete prophecy. Look at Daniel 7: 24-25." And the 10 horns out of this kingdom are 10 kings that shall arise: and another shall arise after them; and shall be diverse from the first, and shall subdue 3 kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and dividing of time".

In context, Daniel 9:26 refers to the Messiah being cut off after the 69th week which would be, the 70th week, in the middle of that week (vs.27) He shall bring an end to sacrifice. This whole passage of the 70 weeks is talking about Jesus First coming. Though some may say it is not complete, let me ask you this. Did He put an end to transgression/sin in all the lives of Christians? He died for our past, present and future sins and sealed us with the Holy Spirit. Spiritually, we are cleansed, although still having two nature and sin dwelling in the members of our flesh, we are dead to sin, it has no more power. Did He make reconciliation with us when He came? Absolutely, and continues to do so. Did He bring in everlasting righteousness? Yes, we are partakers of this righteousness that has been imputed to us forever. Did He seal up vision and prophecy? His word is complete, the New Testament is the completion His word. However, scripture in Daniel does say that it is sealed until the end times ... and then dreams, visions and signs will accompany the end times scenario. Was the Most Holy anointed? Yes, Jesus, when He came the first time. Did He bring and end to sacrifice and offering? Yes. Abominations made Jerusalem desolate in 70 A.D. and beyond. "even until the consummation (arriving soon) which is poured out on the desolate." (the Jews) These 70 weeks all speak to His First Coming -- there is no gap. Why would an angel give us a specific time period and then put a 1983 year gap in it? It wasn't exacting 70 weeks of years, the last week wasn't finished, so it was approximate. If a day is not finished, it's still a day. So the Holy Spirit will soon pour out His Spirit on the desolate (the Jews).
Listen, if you don't think Islam is the Beast, then wait for another and while you are waiting be careful not to get your head chopped off.

Douggg · Jul 26, 2015

Ronald said:
"I have over 4000 posts for ten years ... am very knowledgeable ... bla, bla, bla"

Here is what I actually wrote... "I have made over 4000 posts in discussion, over the course of ten years, with Jews themselves at their (Judaism) sites to understand what they believe. As a result, I have become very knowledgeable on what they believe."

What pride you have and arrogance.

I was just saying why I am qualifed to know what the Jews (Judaism) believes and you are not. Which I would not even had to mention it, but you told me I was wrong about what the Jews believe by referring to a couple of verses in the testament. I am just explaining to you that you are not knowledgeable on what they believe, and gave you a very good site at Judaism 101.com and their view of the mashiach. A person cannot understand the end times without that knowledge, Ronald.

Please don't try to educate me with your Pre-Trib view or what the Messiah means to the Jews.

You may be beyond education, but my post contained material with links that should be invaluable to them who are willing to expand their knowledge base in order to understand the end times, and put together a probable start to finish end times scenario.

btw, why do you falsely accuse me of being Pre-trib? Why are you even bring the rapture up? It has no relevancey to my posts in this thread.

I am just reporting a prophecy, which was uttered by a Rabbi; (a prophecy that apparently he believes is from God - whether from a dream or vision) and some other currents events that will soon be visible to Israel!

He did not say it was a prophecy. And he would not say it, because he would have to had said - "thus saith the Lord. A very serious offense in Judaism if it was not a message from God.

He was giving his opinion, conjecture. It did not say dream or vision that he had. The article did not say the basis for his expectation.

I've done my share of studying scripture for 24 years and have written a book on Christianity btw which contains some 570 scriptures, while drawing from seven different translations. If you think you know how the Great Tribulation is all going to unfold, then excuse yourself from this thread, since you think I don't know what I'm talking about. Simply, don't waste your time with my posts and I won't waste anymore time with you. Go in peace. God Bless

I think I have better handle on it than you. I am not excusing myself from this thread. I like the opportunity this site gives for me to express myself.

What the Jews believe is based upon the Tanach and Talmud. And as far as the scriptures go, if you are just quoting those thinking that those reveal what the Jews believe - think again.

What the Jews (Judaism) believe is how they interpret those scriptures - which is completely different than Christianity. Which a person to know what they believe, must go to their websites and read, and augment that with discussion with Jews themselves, or ask questions at their sites, or watch videos on You Tube made by them regarding their beliefs.

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