Atheistic Darwinist Creationism and It's Just a Sack of Chemicals

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2015

JasonClark said:
You deny reality ...

On the contrary.

"Our reality" is much, much, much larger than "your reality."[VERSE=2 Kings 6:17,KJV]And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.[/VERSE]

JasonClark · Jul 18, 2015

AV1611VET said:
On the contrary.

"Our reality" is much, much, much larger than "your reality."

That's called your "Imagination".

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2015

JasonClark said:
That's called your "Imagination".

So Elisha prays for God to give Gehazi a taste of total reality, and God responds with my imagination?

Is that what you're saying?

JasonClark · Jul 18, 2015

AV1611VET said:
So Elisha prays for God to give Gehazi a taste of total reality, and God responds with my imagination?

Is that what you're saying?

How would I know it's your imagination? you work it out, try a different book.

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2015

JasonClark said:
How would I know it's your imagination?

Aren't you the one who said this?

JasonClark said:
That's called your "Imagination".

JasonClark · Jul 18, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Aren't you the one who said this?

Yes the operative word was 'your' imagination, although the idea in your head obviously originally came from someone else you ran with it.

I don't know how old you are or if this applies to you or not.
I was watching a history documentary the other day and they talked about the 'concorde syndrome', it describe the phenomenon whereby an animal or a bird persists with a strategy even when it has become apparent that the strategy is failing, the analogy is clear, having spent so much already on the Concorde programme, the UK and French governments had no choice but to keep going.
I think you might be in a similar position as the two government were regarding your religion.

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2015

JasonClark said:
I don't know how old you are or if this applies to you or not.

I'm 61.

JasonClark said:
I was watching a history documentary the other day and they talked about the 'concorde syndrome', it describe the phenomenon whereby an animal or a bird persists with a strategy even when it has become apparent that the strategy is failing, the analogy is clear, having spent so much already on the Concorde programme, the UK and French governments had no choice but to keep going.
I think you might be in a similar position as the two government were regarding your religion.

I don't know if this applies to the UK or France or not, but isn't the Antichrist supposed to come from Europe?

JasonClark · Jul 18, 2015

AV1611VET said:
I'm 61.I don't know if this applies to the UK or France or not, but isn't the Antichrist supposed to come from Europe?

The question is, have you invested too much in your religion to stop believing in it now even if you wanted to?

How can you talk of an antichrist when you don't even know if there was a Christ?

The Cadet · Jul 18, 2015

TheBarrd said:
Atheists are definitely in the minority.
One does tend to wonder why...since it's supposed to be the "default position"...

Question. In how many communities in the USA is it not absolutely standard to teach your children the truth of Christ long before they have the ability to examine the claim with any form of rational thought?

JasonClark · Jul 18, 2015

The Cadet said:
Question. In how many communities in the USA is it not absolutely standard to teach your children the truth of Christ long before they have the ability to examine the claim with any form of rational thought?

If religions were unable to indoctrinate children they would simply die out, what's more there's not a religions in this world that doesn't recognise that fact.
They are all fooling themselves because they know that the indoctrination of kids is the key to their success, truth has nothing at all to do with any religion.

That's why all the other gods of history disappeared because parents stopped indoctrinating their children about them, the gods went out of fashion,
people died for their gods and then their gods were forgotten.

Oncedeceived · Jul 18, 2015

Why have all these threads turned to General Apologetic ones? We need to stay on creationism vs. evolution people or every thread that begins will end the same way...

gladiatrix · Jul 19, 2015

TheBarrd said:
I never assume that someone has not read the Bible.
However, the post you answered was actually addressed to someone else who had told me that he hadn't read the Bible.
Do keep up.

Did you "forget" what you said? Let me refresh your memory:

TheBarrd said:
I see...so you have never read the Bible and you have absolutely no idea what might be in that book, or any notion of what Christians believe...heck most American atheists are a bit confused on that score...

And yet you want to come here and engage an American Christian in debate?
Why?

Do note the red/underlied part which implies that it's not just JasonClark who's never read the Bible and doesn't have "any notion of what Christians believe" but "most atheists" (they're "a bit confused on that score"), so backpeddle, MUCH!

TheBarrd said:
gladiatrix said:

I can say that reading the so-called "good Book" (fully agree with Dawkin's assessment of the God for the reasons HERE and HERE) deconverted me completely (predict now that at least one self-important Christian will swoop in to declare that I was never a Christian in the first place)
4) In addition HERE'S a post containing links to other posts pointing out why I've come to the conclusion that the Bible, like other self-proclaimed "holy books", is nothing but a self-serving fiction

Click to expand...

Don't let me spoil your fun. You are welcome to believe whatever you like.

My but how generous of you to allow me to think (NOT believe which is nothing but a mug's game AFAIC) what I "like" (try not use emotion to make decisions either, which would be a sister mug's game to believing IMO)

At least you haven't claimed I'm was never a TRUE Christian™ as some have in the past HERE (my rebuttal to that arrogance)..but it's early day.

TheBarrd said:
I'm not here to try to convert anyone.

ORLY? Since I haven't seen any scientific discussion from you, but lot's of talk about Jesus, God, Bible verses out the kazoo on a forum allegedly for scientific discourse, you will just have to understand why I'm rather incredulous of your claim here.

TheBarrd said:
gladiatrix said:

IOW, like all stories about alleged supernatural entities, when God-s? are "speaking" it's only HUMAN lips observed moving, God-s? being such great "Excusers" for any crime these HUMANS might want to be "absolved" from committing, e.g., enslaving other human beings or persecuting/murdering/marginalizing other Christians/non-believers (so conveniently "handy" if these "heathens" are in possession of something coveted by them, that their God/s? hate the same people they do)

Click to expand...

I hope you didn't pay too much to get into that performance.

What are you on about, IOW what "performance"?

TheBarrd said:
gladiatrix said:

Why argue with Christians?

A. Simple, it's time atheists refused to "sit down and shut up" and started refuting the garbage spread about them by self-entitled theists (as the "majority" don't ya' know"), as well as opposing the efforts of these same theists to impose their POV on everyone else.

B. Believers are heavily indoctrinated to both to hate and distrust non-believers (especially if that non-believer's an atheist), something that has absolutely no basis in fact as seen in this study by Gervais showing such attitudes by the "faithful" are completely WITHOUT warrant here in this post and here in the vile treatment of Jessica Alhquist by self-entitled Christians.

C. What's really ironic here is that this smug, self-satisfied-in-their-righteousness lot who are actually often the "People of the Lie" as described HERE in Post #49 by Dr. Peck, not atheists as some less than honest posters might have us believe.

D. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God(s?) and there's no morality/worldview (definition here) that goes with this lack of belief.

E. Post #71, 03-20-15, 10:10 PM explains why religion (whatever one wants to call this appeal to an alleged supernatural realm/agent) was and is nothing more that a means to gain control power/control over others by making them fear/obey the hawkers of such claims, nothing but a human variant them just "banging" their version Mike the Chimp's kerosene cans , a deceitful ploy used by this low-ranking chimp male to gain control of the troop as the alpha male, illustrating to me that religion "evolved" as a means of power/control (why belly-crawling in God-fear is NOT a reliable guarantor of moral behavior)

The scientific evidence shows that morals/altruism is just a survival strategy, no Deity(-ies?) need apply, as outlined below (even bacteria use it!):

a. Post #205 (Part 1), 03-21-15, 02:00 PM

b. Post #206 (Part 2), 03-21-15, 02:01 PM

c. The Sin-Seller Spiel: ==>Here's why it's just "conning the mugs" (acquire power/control over the target, make the sin-sellers feel secure/safe in a world where everyone believes what they do)

I can see why the Christians often refer to themselves as "God-fearing" ==> if one actually believes the image and stories in the Bible, IMO there would indeed be a lot to fear as outlined HERE in Post #81.

Click to expand...

You seem to be a tad angry. I wonder why?

Why don't you tell me since you're obviously dying to...

Oh wait.... I can't possibly have any good reasons for rejecting the preposterous, unsupported extraordinary claims made by theists and I'm just "a tad angry" because I don't "like" being told that my life's just a worthless "filthy rag before the Lord" and that I need to grovel to the Lord for forgiveness (take the "cure"). I'm told that I reject this "generous offer" seeing that I'm "carnally minded" and just want to sin, sin, SIN because as an atheist I've become "corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one", (Psalm 14:1-3,Psalm 53:1-3,Ecclesiastes 7:20 NIV) amirite?

Ya know, it also a funny thing I never see any statistics showing that belly-crawling to some vengeful Cosmic GODfather is a requirement for generating a decent, moral human being , YET I keep get accused of being "corrupt" (this despite the FACT that the vast majority of criminals in prison are Christians/other God-botherers and atheists are considerably under-represented as this actual DATA from Federal prisons demonstrates).

Goonie · Jul 19, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
Why have all these threads turned to General Apologetic ones? We need to stay on creationism vs. evolution people or every thread that begins will end the same way...

Agreed.

whois · Jul 19, 2015

gladiatrix said:
ORLY? Since I haven't seen any scientific discussion from you, but lot's of talk about Jesus, God, Bible verses out the kazoo on a forum allegedly for scientific discourse, you will just have to understand why I'm rather incredulous of your claim here.

why all the animousity towards the barrd?
question for you, do you have any evidence at all that there isn't some kind of supernatural influence when it comes to life and the universe?
sorry, phrases like ridiculous and nonsense isn't evidence.
also, please be advised this is primarily a christian site, so take your "anti religious, anti god" crap elsewhere.

signed,
a non religious, doesn't believe in god, poster.

TheBarrd · Jul 19, 2015

The Cadet said:
Question. In how many communities in the USA is it not absolutely standard to teach your children the truth of Christ long before they have the ability to examine the claim with any form of rational thought?

I don't know of anyone who was in a scramble to teach their children the truth of Christ at any particular age. It's just something that naturally happens...

JasonClark · Jul 19, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
Why have all these threads turned to General Apologetic ones? We need to stay on creationism vs. evolution people or every thread that begins will end the same way...

God forbid we talk about religion on a Christian Forum, if we are not careful people might even start to think about what it is they believe and we couldn't have that.

TheBarrd · Jul 19, 2015

gladiatrix said:
Did you "forget" what you said? Let me refresh your memory:

Do note the red/underlied part which implies that it's not just JasonClark who's never read the Bible and doesn't have "any notion of what Christians believe" but "most atheists" (they're "a bit confused on that score"), so backpeddle, MUCH!

My but how generous of you to allow me to think (NOT believe which is nothing but a mug's game AFAIC) what I "like" (try not use emotion to make decisions either, which would be a sister mug's game to believing IMO)

At least you haven't claimed I'm was never a TRUE Christian™ as some have in the past HERE (my rebuttal to that arrogance)..but it's early day.

ORLY? Since I haven't seen any scientific discussion from you, but lot's of talk about Jesus, God, Bible verses out the kazoo on a forum allegedly for scientific discourse, you will just have to understand why I'm rather incredulous of your claim here.

What are you on about, IOW what "performance"?

Why don't you tell me since you're obviously dying to...

Oh wait.... I can't possibly have any good reasons for rejecting the preposterous, unsupported extraordinary claims made by theists and I'm just "a tad angry" because I don't "like" being told that my life's just a worthless "filthy rag before the Lord" and that I need to grovel to the Lord for forgiveness (take the "cure"). I'm told that I reject this "generous offer" seeing that I'm "carnally minded" and just want to sin, sin, SIN because as an atheist I've become "corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one", (Psalm 14:1-3,Psalm 53:1-3,Ecclesiastes 7:20 NIV) amirite?

Ya know, it also a funny thing I never see any statistics showing that belly-crawling to some vengeful Cosmic GODfather is a requirement for generating a decent, moral human being , YET I keep get accused of being "corrupt" (this despite the FACT that the vast majority of criminals in prison are Christians/other God-botherers and atheists are considerably under-represented as this actual DATA from Federal prisons demonstrates).

Let me very gently remind you that you are in something called "Christian Forums".
What is the likelihood that you are going to meet Christians in a place called "Christian Forums", do you think?
Since you seem to have a problem with Christians, I have to wonder why you would come to a place where you know you are going to meet Christians? You obviously aren't here to discuss our faith...

TheBarrd · Jul 19, 2015

whois said:
why all the animousity towards the barrd?
question for you, do you have any evidence at all that there isn't some kind of supernatural influence when it comes to life and the universe?
sorry, phrases like ridiculous and nonsense isn't evidence.
also, please be advised this is primarily a christian site, so take your "anti religious, anti god" crap elsewhere.

signed,
a non religious, doesn't believe in god, poster.

Thank you.
I don't recall ever having met this person before, so I'm a bit confused about what seems to be an attack out of nowhere.

JasonClark · Jul 19, 2015

AV1611VET said:
On the contrary.

"Our reality" is much, much, much larger than "your reality."[VERSE=2 Kings 6:17,KJV]And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.[/VERSE]

Why do you quote bible verses at atheists AV1611VET? you do realise that you might just as well quote the Koran, for atheists they are just meaningless words taken from an old book.

JasonClark · Jul 19, 2015

whois said:
why all the animousity towards the barrd?
question for you, do you have any evidence at all that there isn't some kind of supernatural influence when it comes to life and the universe?
sorry, phrases like ridiculous and nonsense isn't evidence.
also, please be advised this is primarily a christian site, so take your "anti religious, anti god" crap elsewhere.

I agree, all supernatural gods exist until they can be shown not to exist, so far over 2,500 Deities exist throughout the world,
all exist because believe it or not none of them has ever been shown not to exist.

http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Gods-Over-Deities-World/dp/0816029091

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