What would it take for non-RC Christians to join the RCC?

Rick Otto

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Agreed. It is the non-Catholic churches, too. Religion is BIG Business!
Agreed. And in order to monetize it (make merchandise), it must be rendered as a contract.
So we have God's people surrendering their God given rights, allowing them to be turned into state controlled privilege, by applying for 501C-3 Tax exempt status. In return, they get to not only not pay taxes they never had to, they get to censure their own sermons to avoid opposing public (government) policy.
Sick situation.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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What would be necessary is to:

1) deny your own denomination;
2) deny your demoniantional patriarchal head in favour to that of the papacy;
3) forget about the denominational blood of the martyrs in Christ;
4) forget about the 500-2000 year history of denomination's history in preaching the gospel;
5) accept to be assimilated into a different denomination than that you had been brought up in;
6) accept the RCC as your new denomination now and forever;
7) accept pope infalibility;
8) enjoy second class citizenship in your new joined religious institution;
9) forget about your culture/tradition that your denomination means to you.
10) accept dictation from the the superior one.

I have just covered some aspects of what is required to join RCC, other than that, why not! let :234::doh1::bbrr:

1. In some sense, you don't have to deny that there may exist good decent faithful in the previous denomination, but you have to deny their teachings as false and heretical to some extent, that's a given.

2. Yes of course, if not you wouldn't have a desire to become Catholic to begin with.
Either you believe that the pope is the successor of Saint Peter, the supreme leader of Christ's only church, the church created by Christ himself where any other self proclaimed church are founded by men or you don't.

If you don't, why on earth will you become catholic to begin with?
Catch my drift?

3. To say that one has to forget about the blood shedded by the denomination one leaves is absurd.
Why does one have to forget about the martyrs of one's previous denomination just because one think their religious leaders erred in one or several dogmatical matters?
Their faith would most likely have been great if they chose to die for Christ.

I consider Christians who have suffered martyrdom for their faith to be witnesses to all of us.
If a Lutheran brother die for his faith who am I to ridicule that enormous offering?

I personally mourn over every brother or sister who are killed for our Lord.
To have full deposit of faith is a tremendous advantage and treasure that we catholics have been blessed with, but it doesn't give us the authority to judge anyone.

Our separated brethren outside the church has a disadvantage and for them separated by the Holy Mother Church to suffer martyrdom is in a sense even greater than for us catholics to die for our faith as I consider people without the full deposit of faith to start their faith journey with a handicap.

So again I disagree with you in your perception.

4. Again if one has come to see the truth of the church and believes that even the purest and modest of denominations are separated from THE ONE church established by our Lord and that they are contradictions of what Christ himself intended as he established the church, I don't think the traditions of the heterodox denomination matters to much anymore.

One does not have to hate his or hers origins to think that they are lost, cut of from the tree.
I am a former Lutheran myself, do I consider Luther to be a heretic, yes.
Do I consider Lutheranism heresy, yes.

Does this mean that I don't see any good things in Lutheranism? No.
In some ways I'm even grateful for being born into that faith.
It is in the Lutheran church that I was baptized and presented to Christ.
I learned to pray, I learned lots of stuff that I cherish greatly to this very day.

I even see Lutheranism as the start of my path back home to the Catholic faith, yes I say home because I consider Catholicism to be Christianity as it's ment to be.

God works in mysterious ways you know...

5. You mean to be a part of God's wonderful quire that together are blessed with a unison voice to worship Christ with the saints and Mother Mary for eternity?

Expression is a key factor here.
If one believes the church to be the one, one shouldn't see this as negative at all.

6. Consecrate yourself to Christ and his church for now and forever, YES, YES AND YES.

Why would one need to relocate?
Isn't peace found in him alone?
Why would his body, the church stick out as anything different than himself the head?

7. The church is infallible, why? Because Christ said so.
"The gated of hell shall not prevail against it".
A gathered council affirmed what the church herself always have taught, that The Holy See of Saint Peter are the primacy and supreme leader of the church.

Christ gave Saint Peter the authority to bind and loose which is exactly what the pope does.

That's why a individual who convert to Catholicism gladly obey the Papal office.

(A side note in all of this is that the pope is a servant of Christ.
The Pope is the protector of the Gospel and the church nothing else.
As JPII said it so famously regarding ordination of female clergy, "I would if I could, but I can't because I'm only pope")

8. Sorry if I sound rude, but this is as far as it's possible to come from the truth.
This has no grounds what so ever.

Being a convert myself I was appreciated, accepted and welcomed from the moment I walked into the church.
I've always been treated as if Im a lifelong catholic both before my actual conversion and afterwards.

There are absolutely no second class citizenship at all and to be honest I find it a tad insulting that you imply that I am such.

This is unofficially aswell as officially the case.
We even believe that all baptized Christians after the trinitarian formula are in half communion with our church.

It's like a child are being baptized into the catholic faith, but raised into another faith tradition as soon as the baptismal ritual are over.
So for any christian to convert to Catholicism is to come back home as we see it.

Why should a lost son or daughter who turn home to their father be considered a second class citizen?
Difficult to understand the reasoning behind that conclusion...

9. I'm not sure I understand you correctly but if you're say episcopal Christian, confessional Lutheran or any other western high church Christian there are very little difference between mass and the service you're used to.

Again, the history of your previous denomination will be seen as a history of disobedience and rebellion towards Rome and Christ (or a result of such) when one comes to realize the truth that rests within the Catholic faith.

10. There are no room for dictation, but rather unity under the Holy See.
Some popes have been dictating and horribly so in the past, but one has to remember that even the supreme poniff is just a human.
The past is both glorious as well as grusome.

Unrighteousness has been committed by popes and bad men, but never by the church.
The Divine truth of the faith had never been shattered by the evilness of some men and an era that didn't knew the moral standards that we've been blessed with after WW2 (despite abortion and other evilness that is).

So see the protection of the divine truth that are still within and use that to praise God for his church and his servants the Popes.
 
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Albion

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1. In some sense, you don't have to deny that there may exist good decent faithful in the previous denomination, but you have to deny their teachings as false and heretical to some extent, that's a given.
Nothing is a "given" in this discussion. It's entirely a matter of "What would it take?" regardless of whether or not it's reasonable, likely, or even possible.
 
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Berean777

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1. In some sense, you don't have to deny that there may exist good decent faithful in the previous denomination, but you have to deny their teachings as false and heretical to some extent, that's a given.

2. Yes of course, if not you wouldn't have a desire to become Catholic to begin with.
Either you believe that the pope is the successor of Saint Peter, the supreme leader of Christ's only church, the church created by Christ himself where any other self proclaimed church are founded by men or you don't.

If you don't, why on earth will you become catholic to begin with?
Catch my drift?

3. To say that one has to forget about the blood shedded by the denomination one leaves is absurd.
Why does one have to forget about the martyrs of one's previous denomination just because one think their religious leaders erred in one or several dogmatical matters?
Their faith would most likely have been great if they chose to die for Christ.

I consider Christians who have suffered martyrdom for their faith to be witnesses to all of us.
If a Lutheran brother die for his faith who am I to ridicule that enormous offering?

I personally mourn over every brother or sister who are killed for our Lord.
To have full deposit of faith is a tremendous advantage and treasure that we catholics have been blessed with, but it doesn't give us the authority to judge anyone.

Our separated brethren outside the church has a disadvantage and for them separated by the Holy Mother Church to suffer martyrdom is in a sense even greater than for us catholics to die for our faith as I consider people without the full deposit of faith to start their faith journey with a handicap.

So again I disagree with you in your perception.

4. Again if one has come to see the truth of the church and believes that even the purest and modest of denominations are separated from THE ONE church established by our Lord and that they are contradictions of what Christ himself intended as he established the church, I don't think the traditions of the heterodox denomination matters to much anymore.

One does not have to hate his or hers origins to think that they are lost, cut of from the tree.
I am a former Lutheran myself, do I consider Luther to be a heretic, yes.
Do I consider Lutheranism heresy, yes.

Does this mean that I don't see any good things in Lutheranism? No.
In some ways I'm even grateful for being born into that faith.
It is in the Lutheran church that I was baptized and presented to Christ.
I learned to pray, I learned lots of stuff that I cherish greatly to this very day.

I even see Lutheranism as the start of my path back home to the Catholic faith, yes I say home because I consider Catholicism to be Christianity as it's ment to be.

God works in mysterious ways you know...

5. You mean to be a part of God's wonderful quire that together are blessed with a unison voice to worship Christ with the saints and Mother Mary for eternity?

Expression is a key factor here.
If one believes the church to be the one, one shouldn't see this as negative at all.

6. Consecrate yourself to Christ and his church for now and forever, YES, YES AND YES.

Why would one need to relocate?
Isn't peace found in him alone?
Why would his body, the church stick out as anything different than himself the head?

7. The church is infallible, why? Because Christ said so.
"The gated of hell shall not prevail against it".
A gathered council affirmed what the church herself always have taught, that The Holy See of Saint Peter are the primacy and supreme leader of the church.

Christ gave Saint Peter the authority to bind and loose which is exactly what the pope does.

That's why a individual who convert to Catholicism gladly obey the Papal office.

(A side note in all of this is that the pope is a servant of Christ.
The Pope is the protector of the Gospel and the church nothing else.
As JPII said it so famously regarding ordination of female clergy, "I would if I could, but I can't because I'm only pope")

8. Sorry if I sound rude, but this is as far as it's possible to come from the truth.
This has no grounds what so ever.

Being a convert myself I was appreciated, accepted and welcomed from the moment I walked into the church.
I've always been treated as if Im a lifelong catholic both before my actual conversion and afterwards.

There are absolutely no second class citizenship at all and to be honest I find it a tad insulting that you imply that I am such.

This is unofficially aswell as officially the case.
We even believe that all baptized Christians after the trinitarian formula are in half communion with our church.

It's like a child are being baptized into the catholic faith, but raised into another faith tradition as soon as the baptismal ritual are over.
So for any christian to convert to Catholicism is to come back home as we see it.

Why should a lost son or daughter who turn home to their father be considered a second class citizen?
Difficult to understand the reasoning behind that conclusion...

9. I'm not sure I understand you correctly but if you're say episcopal Christian, confessional Lutheran or any other western high church Christian there are very little difference between mass and the service you're used to.

Again, the history of your previous denomination will be seen as a history of disobedience and rebellion towards Rome and Christ (or a result of such) when one comes to realize the truth that rests within the Catholic faith.

10. There are no room for dictation, but rather unity under the Holy See.
Some popes have been dictating and horribly so in the past, but one has to remember that even the supreme poniff is just a human.
The past is both glorious as well as grusome.

Unrighteousness has been committed by popes and bad men, but never by the church.
The Divine truth of the faith had never been shattered by the evilness of some men and an era that didn't knew the moral standards that we've been blessed with after WW2 (despite abortion and other evilness that is).

So see the protection of the divine truth that are still within and use that to praise God for his church and his servants the Popes.

Firstly I want to thank you in your hearted reply, I will cherish that, because you are beloved amongst other sons and daughters of Christ. I don't consider you to be in half communion with Christ, either you are in Christ or are not, there is no half way friend. Secondly your baptism in Christ as a Lutheran would have been equal to that of the Catholic as I gather from your words, regardless of your objections with Luther:

"I'm even grateful for being born into that faith.
It is in the Lutheran church that I was baptized and presented to Christ."

If you held to those comments, then did you get baptised again by Rome to be presented before Christ the second time because you were told that you only had half communion with Christ?

If so, then is this mentality not the act of considering other denominations as second class citizens?

I ask you in meekness to think and reflect on how God the Holy Spirit has been instrumental to the continuing of the Christian Faith throughout all continents and in all nations who have faced death, whilst proclaiming Christ and holding steadfast onto his Holy Name.

Don't you see that God the Holy Spirit has been instrumental in building up the other 30,000 denominations of faith in Christ? Don't you see that God is not restricted in only working with Rome? Don't you see that God has not made an invisible contract with only Rome? Don't you see and believe that Christendom is already united as one through Christ as the Kingly Chief Priest?

Why do we need human efforts to be seen of the world, by sounding of bells and whistles to be united as one through an earthly enterprise?

How could a institutionalised christendom be beneficial to God, are we not aware of the schisms that were necessary to diversify the church?

If you look in today's society the strength in Christianity is diversity and not a monopolised institution under a one human head figure. Can't you see that we cannot go back to that institutionalised system of the dark ages?

Haven't we learned a thing or two from history of what unified religious institution can be capable of doing, which is diametrically opposed to God's will?

Why are we seeking such an enterprise if we are one in Christ already and have Christ as our head. When the Father gave dominion to the Son, was it not for things in heaven, on earth and under the sea?

Why do we seek to erect a man in place of Christ to achieve the broader purpose of God, when Christ through God the Holy Spirit has achieved this without sounding bells and whistles? Don't you see that 30,000 denominations is diversity in numbers as a protective covering for Christianity, which enablies it to better cater for the world's needs?

Having diversity in terms of denominations is the way to go in the 21st century and even in today's diverse classrooms teachers are being instructed to provided multiple instructions to diverse leaners, therefore I see diversity in Christianity as being the strength and not the weakness.

We do not want to be unified and weak. This is not the numbers game friend, he who has the greatest numbers looses and God has always shown his greatest of works through the smallest groups of worshippers, just like the first century Jewish church started with only 120 in the upper room and started to cell outwardly into similar groups that brought diversity. That is why we have letters to Rome, Thessalonians, Corinthians and so forth. Small groups are more efficient and effective if they are not burdened by the bureaucracy and red tape of an enormous institution and guess what God knew that all along which is why he manifested his greatest works through the smaller diversified numbers of his Son's body of believers.

Thank you kindly
 
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Albion

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The concessions that other denominational members have to make in joining Rome, compared to what Rome has to make is a huge disparity and it would be nothing short of selling up and closing shop.
Not in all cases. My list didn't amount to that. But as for the others, if that's what it would take for them to convert, then that's the true and honest answer as far as they are concerned.
 
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Berean777

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You can't be serious. People look at all our competing claims and roll their eyes.

You said it all bravo, you are certainly blessed.

The key word is competing claims

Wow, wow!

Do you realise why those people who look at our competing claims are terribly baffled?

They simply don't know where to fire their salvos. There are too many targets for the enemies mind to search and destroy.

The adage is that if there is one claim, then the enemy focusses all their concerted efforts to destroy that one claim and render all believers helpless and unable to reply back to the debunking of that claim tied to the belief system once held by the unified believers.

Just have a look at all the debates between atheists and Christians and see how all of the atheists show frustrations after they think that they have destroyed the Christian claim, when they on a number of occassions say once we come up with a reply to debunk the Christian claim, there are hundreds that follow that slightly change the goal posts and so we give up, shrug shoulders, ha!

Diversity wins friends! It is God's response to the growing enemy and his ploys to destroy arguments and silence the Christian Faith through the debunking of Christian claims.

Oooohhhh many targets I love it! The enemy can't touch this!

:hahaha:
To the enemy you missed :hoho:



 
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Berean777

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shifting goalposts is not a good sign, my friend.

Shifting goal posts slightly when considered in the positive is hunting for the correct solution, as Moulder would say in the Xfiles the truth is out there.

Scripture tells us that in the latter days knowledge will increase and so every denomination is in the hunt for the truth, because deep inside they don't claim to have the truth yet, but have Christ as their head to lead them step by step until someone yells out Bingo! Then everyone flocks to that truth like there is no tomorrow.

The truth is out there and God has inspired people to read their bibles and to hunt for the truth and sooner or later God is going to let out a teaser that will change all denominations like they have never been changed before.

The word is coming friend he is coming upon the lips of those he has chosen to reveal the mystery of all mysteries. Time is God's domain that he strings like a stringed instrument according to his pleasure.

I am so excited the word is coming! :congratm::flatt::happyblush:


God bless
 
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Open Heart

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Shifting goal posts slightly when considered in the positive is hunting for the correct solution
Exactly. It is a confession that one doesn't know what one is talking about. What a terrible thing to say about the Church.
 
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Berean777

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Exactly. It is a confession that one doesn't know what one is talking about. What a terrible thing to say about the Church.

The church is not an institution it is made up of body of believers who are ordained by
Christ through the Holy Ghost who commissions them as witnesses. If we recall history many witnesses throughout the church age have presented mysteries that were once not known by the body, until it was shared.

Not knowing all the truth is not an uncharitable statement to say, it is the truth no matter how unpalatable it may be for some.

So what would it take to join RCC is to accept indoctrination from an institution at the cost of ones own revelation as a witness of Christ. People would have to deny that God directs them individually and therefore are required to conform to the institution at the cost of one seeking God according to his/her own experiences.

Are we living as a sanctified vessels for God or vessels for the institution. This is the big hurdle in joining a regimented institution like Rome. After all Rome's philosophy is based in a regimented army, a regimented government and a regimented religious institution.

Many denominations do not have a regimented philosophical outlook of the church institution as Rome does. Does God want us to conform to a regimented institution? Or does he want us to have our own adventure by seeking him and discovering by ourselves without someone holding our hands and tagging along in the foreground. I find that three is a crowd if the institution becomes a third in the relationship.

I know my denominations and others are not like that and believers are free to seek God how they personally want to experience him and not how they should experience him in recitation similar to Koranic style recitation that many consider repeated indoctrination.

You have to be wiling to be indoctrinated in a regimented way that stifles your free will to experience God the way you have discovered works best for you personally. Just like a classroom with diverse learners teachers today have adopted multiple instructions to cater for the diverse learners of today and Rome has a transmission type instruction from top down and this is static learning.

Therefore if people in the 21st century want to be pupils of old style transmission teaching then by all means, this would require one going backwards to a static approach in seeking God by being dictated from top down.

When you open a question to answer how one can join RCC you will find that they will need to basically give away their free will and diverse learning style to be sponges of Rome. Soft sponge the better it absorbs instructions from transmission teaching.
 
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Berean777

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I have NO mother, but only ONE precious Holy Father who has reared me up and has also manifested himself onto me according to John 14:21 as the form on the mount of transfiguration.

Therefore the truth is in me for he lives in me. I have seen the Lord. :blink::flat4::frozen2:
 
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Rick Otto

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Yes, many have made the claim, none have been able to back it up. If you could show us where the RCC has changed its faith, you would be the first. Unless of course you are referring to changing vestments or such, then you may be correct.
Firmilian pointed it out.
I doubt he was the first, though.
Polygraph tried to point out a change to Anicetus, but didn't have any better results than I expect this post to have either.
I think Tertulian saw something and said something, too.
But don't swallow your gum. I don't have infallibility on my side.
 
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