Why no music in the church of Christ?

stevevw

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The early church may not have used musical instruments because they didn't want to attract attention but that was the early church. This is now and in most countries you can practice your religion without persecution. In fact in some ways you may want to attract attention now. I know and especially for the young they cant stand being preached to and dont get it. But if they hear a beautiful song and music and the words are speaking to them they can hear the message of God.

Its called communication and it comes in the form of words, written form and body language. Music has been proven to be a good form of communication. It maybe the word of God but a person has to hear it and take it in. Sometimes people switch off when someone is reciting something as they are just going through the motions. The holy spirit doesn't have a particular way we should preach or get the message of Christ to others. It will happen as long as there are people gathered in the name of Jesus together. As Christ has said where there are two or more gathered in my name i will be amongst them.

I can appreciate if the music is to loud that it can drown out the message and thats the same for anything. If you can't hear it or keep being distracted then its going to make it harder. But lets no start to be placing all this criteria on it as to what is the right and wrong way to go about fellowship in the name of God. There must be 100 versions of how we should come to god and all in their own way are saying whether verbally or just in their practice of certain things that they are doing it more correct than the others. To be honest if anyone has Jesus in his heart and allows the holy spirit to be guiding their lives then to me they are with Jesus and not against him. We cant start saying that this church is wrong and that one is doing it more to how it should be. If this was the case then many true believers from different churches will be condemned. There will be false prophets but you will tell by the message they preach according to the truth of God and the fruits they bear.

I Know of a catholic priest who is living as Jesus says and you can truly see that. I also know of Salvation army people who are helping people on the streets and putting into practice the words of Christ and not just talking about them. There are also so many churches where they just do the same thing every week and people go on Sunday and they do their little bit and thats really it. They are good people but have their lives where they pay their mortgage and bills and have their careers and go about their day to day lives. They may feel they are doing the right thing and maybe they are but sometimes it just seems they never go beyond that.

To me it is also about letting go of this world more and more and helping others as you would want to be helped yourself. This means that instead of getting the big expensive house and making this world your empire you are giving more to others. At the end of the day when its all said and done you cant take it with you. Sure if you are good at something you should develop that but nearly everything we do can be done to help others and place more importance on saving souls than saving money. We do need funds to help others and its good to create a situation where you can have the money to help and make a difference.

But you have to put God first and he says that he will take care of things and it will work out. It will work out better than any other way you can possible do it. Its when you start to place the importance of the commodity you have with the church and want to make it the most important thing. You begin to justify that this is OK and before you know it you are surrounding yourself with worldly things in the name of God. I look at the catholic church and all their wealth. I think if they truly want to get back to saving souls they would sell most of it off and trust in God and use it to start a revolution movement that would certainly be something that would change the world and show Christ in action.
 
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savedgirl10

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Like you, I happen to be a CoC member and I was quoting what I was taught at Columbia Christian College. But like you, I don't really care because God looks at the heart. I do however, draw the line when the music instruments is so loud that it drowns out peoples voices and takes the lead rather than being the accompaniment.
I just left a church that used a full band on a big stage..drums,keyboard two or threes guitars.sometimes even a grand piano....I left with a headache most Sundays...lol
I am going back my former CoC..I am looking forward to the nice simple singing again.
 
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DerSchweik

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I just left a church that used a full band on a big stage..drums,keyboard two or threes guitars.sometimes even a grand piano....I left with a headache most Sundays...lol
I am going back my former CoC..I am looking forward to the nice simple singing again.
:thumbsup:

My brother attends a mega church (not cofC) where they actually hand out ear plugs to members. Seems to me if you know you're causing your member's ears to hurt, that might be a sign the volume is cranked a little too loud. ;)
 
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DerSchweik

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Maybe someone already posted this, maybe I already posted this.
Psalm 33:2, Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song.

Now what crazy doctrine says you can't play an instrument?
:)

Of course, when was the last time you heard, or saw a harp (or lyre) in a modern worship service?

Personally, I don't agree with the doctrine of some that instrumental music should be disallowed. For me, acapella is a preference, not a rule.

And w/r to worship, God gave us voices and instruments with which to praise Him. In deference however to those who choose the former and abstain from the latter in their services, we don't have examples of the early church using instruments; indeed, what we have are examples of christians singing hymns and songs to one another in praise of Him. So while the OT does provide examples of instruments, the NT does not

Whenever I've broached this topic with advocates of instrumental music invariably I hear the justification that "that's what the kids of today respond to so that's what we need to get them to come to church." But it seems to me humans have ALWAYS responded to music.

...and nowhere in the bible, OT or NT does it say, intimate, or infer that "music saves." It seems to me a very weak argument indeed that justifies massive stage productions of sound, and video, and accomplished artists whether with voice or instrument or both - merely "to get today's generation into the building, because that's what they respond to."

IMHO, we need to draw the line between elaborate stage productions that entertain, that demand focus and attention on the stage and on those who are performing there, and individual and corporate praise of the God who saved us, who saved us not with music, not with entertainment, not with amplifiers and mixers, and microphones and massive speakers and expensive sound systems and screens and televisions... but the God who saved us through the death, burial, and resurrection of His Son - which (I Cor 15) is the gospel, the Word by which we are saved.

He draws us, via the Word, via His Son, and what His Son did on our behalf into the relationship in which we now stand.

Iow, God didn't (and doesn't) entertain us into a relationship with Him.

Psalm 46:10 - "Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."

God wasn't in the mighty wind; nor was He in the earthquake and fire; but He was in the gentle breeze, which drew Elijah from the cave (I Kings 19).
 
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notreligus

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Sorry, I'll correct my previous msg statement.
The church began before Christ died on the cross (I think that was called B.C.?). We were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 11:26) .

I'm still confused as to why u think that the CoC began in the last 2 centuries? The CoC is based upon the first century church which is the church that Jesus built.

The Churches of Christ began formally in 1906. This denomination is officially registered as a denomination in the United States. The Church of Christ split from the Disciples of Christ because the Disciples of were considered "worldly" with their fancy buildings and use of musical instruments in the northern congregations. Alexander Campbell had been a slave owner. The ill feelings after the Civil War affected at least another entire generation afterward.

"Restoration" Churches split over doctrinal differences and at least three new denominations came out of this effort. Now there is the ICOC, another splinter group.
 
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notreligus

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Sorry, I'll correct my previous msg statement.
The church began before Christ died on the cross (I think that was called B.C.?). We were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 11:26) .

I'm still confused as to why u think that the CoC began in the last 2 centuries? The CoC is based upon the first century church which is the church that Jesus built.

The Churches of Christ became a formal denomination, registered as such, in 1906. The group began after a split from the Disciples of Christ. The ill feelings left from the Civil War lasted generations after the War was over. Alexander Campbell had owned slaves. The northern Disciples congregations were considered "worldly" with their fancy buildings and use of musical instruments to accompany worship singing. A split resulted. Alexander Campbell's son did not support the split and felt that the use of musical instruments should not be a reason to split, but that was stated as the primary reason for the split.

Three distinct denominations have resulted from the original Disciples of Christ group, and now a fourth, the ICOC, is the latest. In this sense the Church of Christ is more like the original church. They were split over the Law. The Judaizers continually tried to usurp Paul and his teachings. The Church was slow to accept the New Covenant and acknowledge the Law as obsolete.
 
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I have found in my lifetime that music can greatly influence the kind of person you are. Instruments create a very memorizing rhythm. I believe the rhythm makes it hard for you to keep a solid uninfluenced mind. I also think instruments and lyrics mixed together has a brainwashing effect. maybe this is why jesus set the church up without instruments. For example though turn on a song and try to think of something unrelated to the music in detail.
 
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stevevw

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I have found in my lifetime that music can greatly influence the kind of person you are. Instruments create a very memorizing rhythm. I believe the rhythm makes it hard for you to keep a solid uninfluenced mind. I also think instruments and lyrics mixed together has a brainwashing effect. maybe this is why jesus set the church up without instruments. For example though turn on a song and try to think of something unrelated to the music in detail.

I think this is true but I also think that it can be used to praise God and sing songs to God. The Israelites did it and when they were in captivity by the Babylonians they hung their harps on the trees because they couldn't sing in their time of sorrow. But they would have when they were praising God and singing about the goodness of God in their lives. Though I would say a harp and maybe a flute are not going to be loud and dominate any song but just add some richness to their songs of praise. But Just like music can be a negative influence it can also be a positive one. So long as the sound doesn't dominate the song but compliments it I think its OK. It can appeal to a person sometimes more than the plain words and melt their heart or touch them in a way that words alone can.
 
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I have found in my lifetime that music can greatly influence the kind of person you are. Instruments create a very memorizing rhythm. I believe the rhythm makes it hard for you to keep a solid uninfluenced mind. I also think instruments and lyrics mixed together has a brainwashing effect. maybe this is why jesus set the church up without instruments. For example though turn on a song and try to think of something unrelated to the music in detail.

David and the other Psalmists of Israel must have been terribly brainwashed and deluded, then, by your reasoning, in light of the fact that they used every form of musical instrument known at that time in the worship of the Lord God in the Temple.
 
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DerSchweik

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I have found in my lifetime that music can greatly influence the kind of person you are. Instruments create a very memorizing rhythm. I believe the rhythm makes it hard for you to keep a solid uninfluenced mind. I also think instruments and lyrics mixed together has a brainwashing effect. maybe this is why jesus set the church up without instruments. For example though turn on a song and try to think of something unrelated to the music in detail.
I'm not sure about the "brainwashing" explanation. Music can be very encouraging and inspiring. Where I have issues with instruments - specifically instruments used as part of the worship service - is when the music they generate is for entertainment purposes rather than for worship and encouraging one another - or when the net effect is entertaining.
 
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aggie03

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I'm not sure about the "brainwashing" explanation. Music can be very encouraging and inspiring. Where I have issues with instruments - specifically instruments used as part of the worship service - is when the music they generate is for entertainment purposes rather than for worship and encouraging one another - or when the net effect is entertaining.

Bingo.
 
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stevevw

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I'm not sure about the "brainwashing" explanation. Music can be very encouraging and inspiring. Where I have issues with instruments - specifically instruments used as part of the worship service - is when the music they generate is for entertainment purposes rather than for worship and encouraging one another - or when the net effect is entertaining.
I tend to agree but you have to also remember that if you are worshipping God then the primary purpose is to do all things to worship and praise God. But apart from that if you are going about your everyday life then music as an entertainment is OK so long as it is not promoting negative or sinful intentions and meanings. God does allow us to enjoy things like music and the arts ect. We have senses that can be stimulated and used to learn and grow. Just because God is not always mentioned doesn't mean we cant enjoy something like a good laugh if it cheers us up or a good song if it provokes an emotion which may help us move on or realize something.
 
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aggie03

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I tend to agree but you have to also remember that if you are worshipping God then the primary purpose is to do all things to worship and praise God. But apart from that if you are going about your everyday life then music as an entertainment is OK so long as it is not promoting negative or sinful intentions and meanings. God does allow us to enjoy things like music and the arts ect. We have senses that can be stimulated and used to learn and grow. Just because God is not always mentioned doesn't mean we cant enjoy something like a good laugh if it cheers us up or a good song if it provokes an emotion which may help us move on or realize something.

I think that DerSchweik was referring to music during an assembly with other Christians, though he can certainly correct me if I'm wrong :) Jesus took issue with things that should be used to glorify God (like prayer, fasting, etc) being used to get glory for people. I think that music would certainly be no different. If we are doing anything for the sake of entertaining or being seen then there's something fundamentally wrong with it already.

As regards any other time, I certainly agree that there's nothing I am aware of in the Scriptures that would keep someone from listening to or watching the kinds of things you mentioned.

I'm fairly certain that we're in agreement, and want to thank you for the clarification. You made a good and important point.
 
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stevevw

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I think that DerSchweik was referring to music during an assembly with other Christians, though he can certainly correct me if I'm wrong :) Jesus took issue with things that should be used to glorify God (like prayer, fasting, etc) being used to get glory for people. I think that music would certainly be no different. If we are doing anything for the sake of entertaining or being seen then there's something fundamentally wrong with it already.

As regards any other time, I certainly agree that there's nothing I am aware of in the Scriptures that would keep someone from listening to or watching the kinds of things you mentioned.

I'm fairly certain that we're in agreement, and want to thank you for the clarification. You made a good and important point.
Yeah I reckon the Holy spirit can work in many different ways. I remember when I was first saved one of the most striking things that hit home for me was hearing a local person who was singing about their experience and how God had come into their life and saved them. This really stuck a chord with me pardon the pun. I think for some and in some situations this can be an even greater way than any other for reaching them. But when thats all said and done it is the scriptures that will point you in the right direction and clarify the things that God wants in our lives.
 
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DevoutOne

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Because we should worship the way that the apostles did. Also, in my opinion, I feel God's presence more when EVERY member in the congregation sings. Wouldn't you rather hear all of your children sing rather than just a few that are more talented? I wouldn't leave kids out like that though I have none.
 
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Because we should worship the way that the apostles did. Also, in my opinion, I feel God's presence more when EVERY member in the congregation sings. Wouldn't you rather hear all of your children sing rather than just a few that are more talented? I wouldn't leave kids out like that though I have none.

We don't know if there was instrumental accompaniment to congregational singing in the first century or even if there was congregational singing. We do know that psalms, hymns and spiritual songs were sung by individuals to each other and that if any brother had a psalm he was to sing it in the congregation. Other than that the New Testament doesn't give us much other information.

In Christian history there is a very lengthy history of choral singing. Congregational singing did not come into general use until the Reformation and did not become really popular until after Isaac Watts in the eighteenth century.
 
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outsidethecamp

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According to James in Acts 15, the restoration of the Tabernacle of David, prophecied by Amos, is the Church. The Tabernacle of David is a foreshadow and type of the NT Church. Musical instruments were used in the Tabernacle of David which consisted of a Tent and the Ark of the Covenant, which is a type of the presence of God.
 
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stevevw

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We don't know if there was instrumental accompaniment to congregational singing in the first century or even if there was congregational singing. We do know that psalms, hymns and spiritual songs were sung by individuals to each other and that if any brother had a psalm he was to sing it in the congregation. Other than that the New Testament doesn't give us much other information.

In Christian history there is a very lengthy history of choral singing. Congregational singing did not come into general use until the Reformation and did not become really popular until after Isaac Watts in the eighteenth century.
It may have been harder in the time of Jesus. The church was often persecuted and many met in secret. I dont think it would be a time be feel the freedom to sing and shout for the lord. I can picture them meeting in back rooms or upstairs in some back street. But as time went by probably when Christianity became more acceptable around 300AD there would have been more churches and worship and I am sure there would have been lots of music and singing.

I always think of when the Babylonians asked Gods people in captivity to sing songs for them. If there was one thing that the enemies liked and knew about it was the singing which must have brought joy to everyone.
Psalm 137:3
for there our captors asked us for songs, our tormentors demanded songs of joy; they said, "Sing us one of the songs of Zion!"
 
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outsidethecamp

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It may have been harder in the time of Jesus. The church was often persecuted and many met in secret. I dont think it would be a time be feel the freedom to sing and shout for the lord. I can picture them meeting in back rooms or upstairs in some back street. But as time went by probably when Christianity became more acceptable around 300AD there would have been more churches and worship and I am sure there would have been lots of music and singing.

I always think of when the Babylonians asked Gods people in captivity to sing songs for them. If there was one thing that the enemies liked and knew about it was the singing which must have brought joy to everyone.
Psalm 137:3
for there our captors asked us for songs, our tormentors demanded songs of joy; they said, "Sing us one of the songs of Zion!"

You may have a point there. In Chinese underground churches and other underground churches around the world you don't normally hear of musical instruments. I have had the privilege of hearing Richard Wurmbrand speak in person and there were instruments and singing before he spoke and I never heard anything negative from him regarding prohibition of instruments. In fact, in all of his writings there is no mention of a Divine prohibition.

But, I think you may a very strong point regarding Churches that were trying to keep a low profile and stay under the radar.
 
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I mean, singing, playing instruments and worship are all in the bible. Why outlaw the practice?
There was a split in the Church of Christ restoration movement many years ago. Ours does use musical instruments and singing. Piano's and organs were considered of the devil because the only places that first could afford them were dance halls and saloons, so we're not deemed proper for church service. Both groups go back to Alexander Campbell and still follow the bible as the only creed or whatever.
 
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