Daniel's 70 Week Prophecy Explained (No Future 7 Year Tribulation, Only 3.5 Year Great Tribulation)
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
You see preterists believe in the following:
1) Satan doesn't exist today and never existed as a person, but only symbolically as the beast that was destroyed in 70AD.
2) THE bodily resurrection is not physical but only spiritual within our earthly lifetime.
3) THE heavenly Kingdom is not a real and tangible Kingdom but only a spiritual one tied to the church on earth.
4) Christians will not be reunited with the risen Lord Christ Jesus
5) Eternal life and inheritance is not after death but in the here and known realised only spiritually.
6) No hope in afterlife and live only in the here and now as they believe they are living eternal life within this mortal life in a corrupt world.
The basic 1% context is completely void in preterists eschatology. It is as if they only live for the here and now and regard this life the be all, end all, with no hope in being reunited with the risen Lord.
Personally in my view this is a major flaw in preterists that is why futurists are able to run rings around them even with their 1001 different interpretations, futurists have a hope in the after life and the preterists don't care for the afterlife and live in the here and now as they believe they are living the eternal life within this mortal life in some spiritual way only realised to them regardless of what is happening around them.
It is like preterists see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil and everything is hunky dory.
1) Satan doesn't exist today and never existed as a person, but only symbolically as the beast that was destroyed in 70AD.
2) THE bodily resurrection is not physical but only spiritual within our earthly lifetime.
3) THE heavenly Kingdom is not a real and tangible Kingdom but only a spiritual one tied to the church on earth.
4) Christians will not be reunited with the risen Lord Christ Jesus
5) Eternal life and inheritance is not after death but in the here and known realised only spiritually.
6) No hope in afterlife and live only in the here and now as they believe they are living eternal life within this mortal life in a corrupt world.
The basic 1% context is completely void in preterists eschatology. It is as if they only live for the here and now and regard this life the be all, end all, with no hope in being reunited with the risen Lord.
Personally in my view this is a major flaw in preterists that is why futurists are able to run rings around them even with their 1001 different interpretations, futurists have a hope in the after life and the preterists don't care for the afterlife and live in the here and now as they believe they are living the eternal life within this mortal life in some spiritual way only realised to them regardless of what is happening around them.
It is like preterists see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil and everything is hunky dory.
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Interplanner
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I don't have any of those beliefs, then. Good.
Now, back to what Eph 2B-3A says...
Now, back to what Eph 2B-3A says...
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
I don't either and neither did the first century apostles. The fact remains that preterists use a audience relevant eschatological interpretation but they completely ignore anthropological world views of those days and of the Old Testament that were a flow on to those simple fishermen who had every belief of a real and tangible after life existence and not one in the figment of their own imaginations. The simple men who used a concrete language communication mode had not anticipated to be killed in order for their memory to be passed down to unknown others, rather they looked forward to a better life after they died and to be reunited with their Lord.
Now to the question of Eph 2B-3A
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
I read both chapter of Ephesians 2 and 3 and what I gather Paul is saying is highlighting the transition of a person from spiritual death as foreigners to the commonwealth of Israel to now heirs with Christ to realise eternal life.
Is Paul saying we have eternal life within this life from a spiritual context?
Yes! But why?
Preterists use this to justify that the resurrection and eternal life are realised in this life only and not the afterlife:
Ephesians 2:4-8
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
These versus are not the context to the resurrection of the dead or eternal life preached else where in Paul's epistles, rather are addressed specifically to the Ephesians who were Greeks that believed the following:
Ephesians believed that all flesh was evil and only a pure spirit that is without flesh is good. What Paul does is nothing short of amazing. He manages to talk the talk and walk the walk of the Ephesians by convincing them on the contrary, that before they walked as times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But now their flesh has been quickened by the spirit where they walk obedience to the Pure Spirit who is God, where they consider their flesh dead to sin.
Paul was well known to speaking differently to each cultural audience. You could say Paul was an anthropological doctor, by speaking to the hearts of those by talking the talk and walking the walk.
Paul even testifies of his methodology to justify why he spoke and acted the way he did to the specific audience. Once again I must stress that this has nothing to do with the context of the resurrection of the dead and the eternal inheritance of the life to come after death.
1 Corinthians 9
19Even though I am a free man with no master, I have become a slave to all people to bring many to Christ. 20When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. 21When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,d I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.
22When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
Preterist say that they interpret scripture from an audience relevant position. However in this case they fail to determine that Paul speaks differently to each crowd and you can't simply take what Paul said here and associate it with a doctrine such as the resurrection of the dead or eternal life.
By the grace of God this was discerned by me. Praise the name of Jesus.
Is Paul saying we have eternal life within this life from a spiritual context?
Yes! But why?
Preterists use this to justify that the resurrection and eternal life are realised in this life only and not the afterlife:
Ephesians 2:4-8
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:These versus are not the context to the resurrection of the dead or eternal life preached else where in Paul's epistles, rather are addressed specifically to the Ephesians who were Greeks that believed the following:
Ephesians believed that all flesh was evil and only a pure spirit that is without flesh is good. What Paul does is nothing short of amazing. He manages to talk the talk and walk the walk of the Ephesians by convincing them on the contrary, that before they walked as times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But now their flesh has been quickened by the spirit where they walk obedience to the Pure Spirit who is God, where they consider their flesh dead to sin.
Paul was well known to speaking differently to each cultural audience. You could say Paul was an anthropological doctor, by speaking to the hearts of those by talking the talk and walking the walk.
Paul even testifies of his methodology to justify why he spoke and acted the way he did to the specific audience. Once again I must stress that this has nothing to do with the context of the resurrection of the dead and the eternal inheritance of the life to come after death.
1 Corinthians 9
19Even though I am a free man with no master, I have become a slave to all people to bring many to Christ. 20When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. 21When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,d I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.
22When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
Preterist say that they interpret scripture from an audience relevant position. However in this case they fail to determine that Paul speaks differently to each crowd and you can't simply take what Paul said here and associate it with a doctrine such as the resurrection of the dead or eternal life.
By the grace of God this was discerned by me. Praise the name of Jesus.
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"Not according to Jesus Christ."
Yes .... according to Jesus Christ
Start [Revelation 6:12-17]
Ending [Revelation 19:11-21; 20:1-3]
Yes .... according to Jesus Christ
Start [Revelation 6:12-17]
Ending [Revelation 19:11-21; 20:1-3]
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
The great tribulation is not limited to first century church. The great tribulation historically speaking from a historicist point of view is a time of Christain persecution.
You have the women the symbol of the first century Jewish church being pursued by the red dragon and then God opens up newly discovered continents that allow her to pass on that legacy in preaching the gospel to her seeds that follow in her footsteps. The seeds that follow her are the seven gentile churches that John was told by the Lord to write to because the gospel needed to YET AGAIN be preached, meaning to kick started because post 70AD it had been halted. Remembering that John received this instruction on the island of Patmos which is well after 70D.
So you have the dispersed gentile Christains from the seven churches who had to be regathered once again and rallied behind, by the letter from the oldest and only living apostle John, in order to once again kick start the preaching of the gospel. Had Jesus not instructed John to write to the seven churches, Christianity would have been silenced right there and then, because the first century Jewish church the women spoken of had long departed after the departure of the disciples and apostles, the twelve stars/messengers. So the seven churches who were her seeds to follow needed to follow in her foot steps and John's letter was a letter to kick start the preaching yet again, because the row high had stopped.
This letter would have been recieved by the seven churches well after 100AD where historians agree to this claim by saying, even know the letter was written by an frail old man John, the letter would have taken some time before it eventually found its way into all the seven churches by the slow mode of delivery and maybe many failures along the ways.
You have to look at scripture From an anthropological point of view and assume that back then everything was 10000 times slower, only then do we come to the realisation that John's letter was recieved post 100AD and this blows preterist 70AD eschatology out of the water.
The great tribulation must therefore also encompass the adherents to the letter from John because after all it was written to them to kick start the preaching once AGAIN as instructed in:
Revelation 10:10-11
And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
The seeds that followed chronologically are the symbolic two witnesses that follow in Rev 11. These are now the concentration of the Dragon because they took on the baton of preaching from the departed first century church/disciples and started the legacy yet AGAIN.
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
We have to chronologically tie John's letter to the seed of the women and this would point to the seven gentile churches who carried on her legacy even to this very day.
Anthropology is just as important of not more so when interpreting scripture because there are things hidden from John's perspective that are not revealed unless you get into the mind of John and understand that the importance of his letter was not mere prophesy of instruction or the seven churches, but all of Christainity to come after the wars of 70AD would have run out of steam had John not sent this letter which reinvigorated the seven gentile churches who were in hiding in fear of persecution. John's letter becomes the final hope that Jesus is now instructing the seven churches all but one who have backslid and no longer see the point in preaching the gospel, except they went about their lives doing their normal things with the expectation that what they had was now lost in the figment of memory of past generation. Remember that the generation that took the baton was the one that followed the previous first century and this John was the necessary first previous generation man that needed to get things back and rolling again under a new administration distinct from that of the women but in her footsteps.
You have the women the symbol of the first century Jewish church being pursued by the red dragon and then God opens up newly discovered continents that allow her to pass on that legacy in preaching the gospel to her seeds that follow in her footsteps. The seeds that follow her are the seven gentile churches that John was told by the Lord to write to because the gospel needed to YET AGAIN be preached, meaning to kick started because post 70AD it had been halted. Remembering that John received this instruction on the island of Patmos which is well after 70D.
So you have the dispersed gentile Christains from the seven churches who had to be regathered once again and rallied behind, by the letter from the oldest and only living apostle John, in order to once again kick start the preaching of the gospel. Had Jesus not instructed John to write to the seven churches, Christianity would have been silenced right there and then, because the first century Jewish church the women spoken of had long departed after the departure of the disciples and apostles, the twelve stars/messengers. So the seven churches who were her seeds to follow needed to follow in her foot steps and John's letter was a letter to kick start the preaching yet again, because the row high had stopped.
This letter would have been recieved by the seven churches well after 100AD where historians agree to this claim by saying, even know the letter was written by an frail old man John, the letter would have taken some time before it eventually found its way into all the seven churches by the slow mode of delivery and maybe many failures along the ways.
You have to look at scripture From an anthropological point of view and assume that back then everything was 10000 times slower, only then do we come to the realisation that John's letter was recieved post 100AD and this blows preterist 70AD eschatology out of the water.
The great tribulation must therefore also encompass the adherents to the letter from John because after all it was written to them to kick start the preaching once AGAIN as instructed in:
Revelation 10:10-11
And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
The seeds that followed chronologically are the symbolic two witnesses that follow in Rev 11. These are now the concentration of the Dragon because they took on the baton of preaching from the departed first century church/disciples and started the legacy yet AGAIN.
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
We have to chronologically tie John's letter to the seed of the women and this would point to the seven gentile churches who carried on her legacy even to this very day.
Anthropology is just as important of not more so when interpreting scripture because there are things hidden from John's perspective that are not revealed unless you get into the mind of John and understand that the importance of his letter was not mere prophesy of instruction or the seven churches, but all of Christainity to come after the wars of 70AD would have run out of steam had John not sent this letter which reinvigorated the seven gentile churches who were in hiding in fear of persecution. John's letter becomes the final hope that Jesus is now instructing the seven churches all but one who have backslid and no longer see the point in preaching the gospel, except they went about their lives doing their normal things with the expectation that what they had was now lost in the figment of memory of past generation. Remember that the generation that took the baton was the one that followed the previous first century and this John was the necessary first previous generation man that needed to get things back and rolling again under a new administration distinct from that of the women but in her footsteps.
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Douggg
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No, the kings of the earth assemble themselves at Armageddon under the sixth vial. After they have assembled, there is one last vial left, the seventh vial; which the hailstones smash the cities of the world and men of the world curse God. So the sign of the Son of Man while at the very end of the great tribulation is not after it is completely over.
You are misunderstanding Matthew 24:29 regarding the statement "immediately after the tribulation of those days", thinking it as meaning after ever single plague is over. But the statement essentially is meaning at the end of the tribulation of those days, that there is not going to be a delay in time that Jesus comes down to earth in great power and glory..
In the four gospels, Jesus never said to anyone about the mark of the beast, the two witnesses, etc. There is no passage in the entire bible that gives a complete stand-alone picture of the end times. It all has to be put together by the believer in walk with God and study of bible front to back.
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Interplanner
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No you don't "have to" do any of it. That is nonsense. You stay faithful to the Gospel by procaliming it, not by knowing the future assisted by a "walk" with God to help you do so. shall we sound/operate like the apostles or not? I guess not!
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Douggg
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The resurrection is not tied to the 1335th day nor 1290 days. Those are pertinent to the abomination of desolation.
The resurrection of the dead in Daniel 12:1 is given in general terms as being at that time in history, at the time of the end, generally speaking. The battles in Daniel 11:40-45 take place right before Armageddon.
The reason in Daniel 12:1 it is in general terms is because no-one knows exactly when the rapture/resurrection (of Daniel's body) will take place. Daniel will be part of the saints accompanying Jesus in Revelation 19 when Jesus descends from heaven back down to this earth. But know one knows exactly when Daniel's body will be resurrected - except it being at the time of history called the time of the end.
Daniiel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
All of the end times events have to be concluded by the end of the 70th week - which includes "anointing the Most Holy". Which will be in Psalms 2 when God puts his Son on the throne in Jerusalem (the 70 weeks are determined upon Jerusalem) in spite of the kings of the earth, the heathen, imaging a vain thing that they can stop Jesus from coming down, and taking over the world's governments under the Kingdom of God.
Psalms 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
So on that day, when Jesus descends down to earth, the kings of the earth and their armies will have gathered to try and stop Jesus - a vain thing. God will take out his wrath on them, and set Jesus as King over them, here on earth, the Kingdom of God, fulfilling Daniel 2, and Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem from then on, throughout the millenium.
All of that has to take place, anointing the Most Holy, his return within the 70 weeks - which Jesus returns on the 1335th day. Which the 1335th day is tied to the end of the Abomination of Desolation in Daniel 12 - the statue image - which will be a facade for Satan when he is cast down, and which will be melted away into ashes on the day Jesus returns, exposing Satan to all the world there on the temple mount, before the lone angel comes forward and binds Satan in chains - who will be taken to the bottomless pit.
So all of those things fit within the 70th week. 2520 days.
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The 70th week happened in the 1st century. Business is done with Israel. We live in the 'culmination' of the ages: all business, meaning, lead ups, fulfillment, conclusions were reached,and those ages are likely Daniel's 70 ages. Heb 9:26. what else AT THAT TIME could he be referring, or do futurists treat it as second-rate?
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You are absolutely accurate with the 2520 day 70th week Doug
You will never get planner to give over with his preterism
He is stuck in it and cannot move away .... his particular brand is like quagmire
You can see how he attempts to wiggle through every case you make for the truth
"The 70th week happened in the 1st century. Business is done with Israel."
This is pure hyper preterism coupled with replacement theology .... and with a bunch of other things added in
Ask him sometime about his religious affiliation .... and if he will tell you, go to the Internet website of the same
Then you will see what is going on
You will never get planner to give over with his preterism
He is stuck in it and cannot move away .... his particular brand is like quagmire
You can see how he attempts to wiggle through every case you make for the truth
"The 70th week happened in the 1st century. Business is done with Israel."
This is pure hyper preterism coupled with replacement theology .... and with a bunch of other things added in
Ask him sometime about his religious affiliation .... and if he will tell you, go to the Internet website of the same
Then you will see what is going on
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Interplanner
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I grew up fundamentalist D'ist and then in college heard Dr. Schaeffer and Brinsmead from Australia the same quarter. When I head Brinsmead, I think it was the first time I had ever heard Gal 3 and Acts 13. Then I found out they were about nearly the same topic to nearly the same audience and Paul at his most passionate. Dr. Schaeffer had the leading Christian ministry in the world in the 2nd half of the 20th century and put no stock on modern Israel. Because the purpose of Christian ministry is to proclaim Christ is the Lord of this world to whom all of us should bow.
Do you have any idea what is going on in Gal 3?
Do you have any idea what is going on in Gal 3?
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btw, there are types of preterism that cannot be discussed here, so you have to qualify what you are saying. If you don't, please know that you are not speaking to me. Many futurists agree that certain things happened in 70 AD, too. In fact, those things did happen even if futurists don't know it, lol!
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Jesus said it is finished. The old covenant was nailed on the cross there and then. 70AD has nothing to do with covenant theology as preterists advocate, by claiming that the old covenant continued for 40 years after the precious blood of Christ was shed on the cross.
How could the curses of the old covenant continue after the bail bond was paid in full on the cross at Calvary, that freed all of us from the letter of the mosaic law that said, we shall all die because we have fallen short of the law of God.
If this basic principle in covenant theology is wrongly interpreted by the preterists, how then could they continue to advocate that there existed two covenants along the side of one another, for the better part of 40 years, which is a generation.
Ask yourselves this important question, would God have allowed the curses of the mosaic law under the old covenant, to continue for 40 years after the sacrifice of his Son?
This is a no brainer. It would be diabolical to even suggest that God would allow the Old covenant to continue even one second after Jesus cried out IT IS FINISHED.
THEN THE TEMPLE CURTAIN WAS TORN INTO TWO PIECES STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE BY THE EARTHQUAKE THAT SHOOK IT. This signalled the end of the old and in with the new covenant of grace.
How could the curses of the old covenant continue after the bail bond was paid in full on the cross at Calvary, that freed all of us from the letter of the mosaic law that said, we shall all die because we have fallen short of the law of God.
If this basic principle in covenant theology is wrongly interpreted by the preterists, how then could they continue to advocate that there existed two covenants along the side of one another, for the better part of 40 years, which is a generation.
Ask yourselves this important question, would God have allowed the curses of the mosaic law under the old covenant, to continue for 40 years after the sacrifice of his Son?
This is a no brainer. It would be diabolical to even suggest that God would allow the Old covenant to continue even one second after Jesus cried out IT IS FINISHED.
THEN THE TEMPLE CURTAIN WAS TORN INTO TWO PIECES STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE BY THE EARTHQUAKE THAT SHOOK IT. This signalled the end of the old and in with the new covenant of grace.
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Chicken Little
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I am with you on this one and have been there for ages now . but I got there to 3 1/2 years another way. I got there by the laws presented to us in the story of JOB of all people.
I THINK it is very possible that EZEKIEL'S TEMPLE comes at THE SEVENTH TRUMPET. and no temple needs to be built by men.
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