How to explain the theft and murder in the Book of Joshua

RisingSun212

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I just finished the Book of Joshua for the first time, and I'm a little taken aback at the theft of precious metals and the murder of children. The Hebrews describe YWHW as approving of such behavior. But yet they knew the precepts at that time of "Do not steal" and "Do not murder". How do you explain their behavior? I'm a little shocked by it.
 

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Ted
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Hi RS,

Without knowing the exact places in the Scriptures that you are referring to I can't really give you any reasoned answer. It's been awhile since I read the Scriptures about Joshua and I've never been one to have complete memorization of all I read.

However, I do know that the Scriptures tell us of quite a few sins that people have committed while seemingly serving God. David and his affair with Bathsheba and resultant death of her husband is probably the most notable. God did command Israel to strive to maintain its purity by putting to death those guilty of certain acts within its community. Other acts were punished by banishment from the community. But we must always remember this truth: There is no one who has not sinned against God. If we believe that, and believe that the Scriptures detail for us the actual living of life in those days, then it should be expected that there will be times in that detailing that we read of people doing things that were not pleasing to God.

My first question would be to test your understanding that God approved. From which passage of Joshua do you find that God gave approval for the theft of precious metals and the murder of 'innocent' children. The law given to Israel did include a command that rebellious children should be put to death and so they are not considered 'innocent' in my understanding.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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I just finished the Book of Joshua for the first time, and I'm a little taken aback at the theft of precious metals and the murder of children. The Hebrews describe YWHW as approving of such behavior. But yet they knew the precepts at that time of "Do not steal" and "Do not murder". How do you explain their behavior? I'm a little shocked by it.

From the Flood to the exiles, God has punished those who would not repent of their sins.

In the examples of the flood and the cities of the plain (Sodom and Gomorrah) God exterminated all the people (except a very few righteous) in order to stop the spread of sin before there was no possibility of starting again.

In the case of the Canaanites, God placed Abraham in their midst as His representative to give them an example of righteousness. Then he gave them two more generations before the descendants of Abraham went into Egypt and then another 400 years (Gen 15:16) to repent of their vile practices. (sacrificing their infants to Baal cannibalism, Baal-Astoreth worship with the sexual orgies that typified their fertility festivals and included homosexuality and inappropriate behavior with animals)

Since they did not respond to the example of His prophet (Abraham) God used the Israelites to exterminate them lest their abominable behavior spread beyond their borders and to the ends of the earth. God would later use the Assyrians and the Babylonians to discipline His chosen people when they became apostate. He saved a remnant of them because He promised that He would not completely destroy them when (not "if" , "when") they turned to false gods and that He would bring them back into the land.

It's rather like excising a malignant tumor before it metastasizes.
 
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pshun2404

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There are three different words used for killing in the Old Testament. So in order to uncover the circumstances or events under which killing is sometimes allowed, one must take into account the context of the act and which word is being used.

The Hebrew word “rasah” or “rashah”, as it is used here in the 6th Commandment refers most specifically to premeditated murder without just cause. However, it can also be used in the sense of manslaughter, as when one kills by mistake, or without intent, like in the case of Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 4:42, 19:4, Joshua 20:3-5, and elsewhere! Thus in Hebrew the specific meaning of this word must always be determined by its’ context. We must always see it in relation to the surrounding statements. In the commandments it is absolute and the law is conditional…

Sin is a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) and there are actually 613 commandments…the soul that sins it must die is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death).

Next, we have the word “hemit”, which carries no sense of guilt or iniquity and is used in the case of righteous capital punishment, or when the killing is the result of an attack from a wild beast, and so on! The root of this word is related to the word “emet” or truth. We see this usage in Leviticus 20:4; Numbers 35:19-21; Deuteronomy 13:10 (your passage) and Deuteronomy 17:7!

Finally, when God orders the execution or destruction of an individual or group (like when He commands Joshua at the five cities of Canaan), the word “haraq” is used (See Genesis 20:4; Exodus 4:23, etc.). This form of killing is used specifically in the prevention of foreseen evils beyond our comprehension. By eliminating these people, God is actually sparing millions of people the pain, disease, suffering, and death that they would have caused. It would be used for example in eliminating an Adolph Hitler. There is absolutely nothing evil in this, in fact it is very good. Therefore, this form of killing is always just, whether or not we finite humans can see the full implications of His doing it.
 
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pshun2404

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Imagine in the human body, each cell as an individual life form, which actually it is. They each likewise function as part of a specific local community (the heart, the lungs, the blood stream, etc.,). Different cells, and groups of cells, display differences in structure, appearance, life-span, function, etc., just like different humans and groups of humans! Each cell in relation to the other cells, and as a member of their particular cellular community, knowingly or unknowingly works as an intricate part of a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts. The human host, of which it is but a tiny almost insignificant part, is as the Lord is to us, in relation to the members of His body. The individual cell’s instinctual purpose, like our own, is to work to maintain and protect its self life, as well as the goals of its community life.

One of the ways they assure the survival of their type is through self-replication or offspring. Their higher purpose is actually to achieve our will and our good purpose though they are most probably totally unaware, or only vaguely, that we, as their human host, even exists. They understand little if anything about us, and our ways are higher than their ways, our thoughts are higher than their thoughts, if indeed it can be said that they even have any. They go about more or less doing the right thing in relation to one another unaware of the part they are playing in working within our overall purpose and will. Beyond their circumstantial perceptions they are working and interacting to optimize our quality of life and helping to fulfill our long term plans.

Now then, each individual cell is created in our image. They contain the image of their host within each of them (called DNA). They probably can sense an order and function interactively to enhance their mutually dependable existence. The span of their existence may be miniscule in relation to their human host, but to them it is a lifetime.

Sad as this truth is, every once in a while, a cell or some group of cells, decides they are going to do their own thing. They’re going to be their own lord if you will. They seemingly become self-willed and rebellious toward the established order. They begin to gain new converts so to speak, in great numbers, and nothing is going to stop them from their plan to take over. We call this actual biological phenomena is what we call “Cancer”! These terrorist or barbarous cells literally go into attack mode and start sapping the life out of the surrounding cells, killing as many as necessary in pursuit of their self-willed agenda. At first the effect of their violence upon their community of cells is slight and almost unnoticeable, causing some alarm, discomfort, and intermittent disturbance here and there. Regulatory norms are enforced by the greater community, and often these violent murderous outbreaks are remedied without bringing much attention or alarm to the neighboring cellular communities. However, on occasion these cells reject these corrective measures and rebel even further extending there influence outward, and begin to influence their surroundings in such a way that the immune system is alerted, and the local community has to call in specialists to eliminate these criminal cells in an attempt to protect the near by individuals, and the society at large. These are usually in the form of “anti-bodies” and white blood cells, that specialize in response to the types of violent rebellion these particular cellular individuals impose. Why try to eliminate them? Because of the inevitable threat they cause to individuals and to the greater society. The literally bring a sort of chaos into the order of things destroying the work being done there. If left on their own without being stopped they will continue to maliciously destroy and entirely take over. The forces alerted to remedy the problem will stop at nothing to prevent more senseless murder and mayhem and if necessary will even kill them. They even try surrounding them and trapping them as a first attempt by encapsulating them in a membrane or prison if you will.

If they get too powerful, or for some non-sensible reason are released, or break out of their captivity, or get away with their self-lordship too long, the cell’s lord, the human host, begins to take notice and likewise goes on alert. It likewise then takes any steps necessary to overcome or even kill the Cancer before it gets too powerful. It will irradiate, cut out, laser roast, or even chop off a limb in order to preserve the greater good and sometimes the life of the whole. Often times a number of good healthy citizen cells are called on to make the sacrifice of self for the greater good. Sometimes just the act of chasing down these devils and getting at them causes the sacrifice of good, innocent, healthy, cellular individuals. As tragic as this may seem it is the necessary price that must be paid to protect and save the most lives in the community.

So it is with God! Occasionally, God sees the development of a human cancer growing stronger and stronger. The appropriate members of the human community at large are being intimidated, persuaded, abused, and even eliminated. Sometimes He sees that resistance attempts have been, or will continue to be futile, and so He must step in and take action to save the many, to work the greater overall good, even though we may not fully comprehend the extent of this benefit at the time.
 
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1watchman

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God's View Of Things


Killing Allowed By God
[It is noteworthy that God's ways and mind are different from our ways and our reasoning (Isa. 55); and we need to ultimately bow to Him. One young Christian asked about why so much killing was allowed by God in the Bible, which was notably in the Old Testament, and the letter here of response is adapted for ministry and to avoid names and references. - RLD]

10/14
Hello __________:

Your question as to the Book of Joshua is often pondered by new Bible students. The book has been called the Ephesians of the Old Testament, because it speaks of possessing the inheritance ---like unto the Church today to value and possess our inheritance which is spiritual. It shows there is conflict in overcoming Satan and the world to embrace that which God has for us --though we are called to love and not as Israel in combat against enemies; however, we must always obey the Word of God for us and not depend on our reasoning about God's purposes.

Israel was given certain lands to possess ---and as Rahab stated in Joshua 2, the residents knew of the Lord, but did not want Him and held to their gods. One needs to also see that in the "foreknowledge" of God He knows the end from the beginning, and he knows who will esteem and come to Him ---that brings what is called "election" in the New Testament of the Bible. All peoples who fought against Israel were destroyed, and there was always acceptance in the OT of the "strangers" who wanted to co-exist with Israel in peace, and allow the rule of God. Our God is always a merciful God, but He will not accept rebellion from a people who hate Him ---which doesn't allow you and I as saints of God to judge and condemn anyone, for we are not as God and are enjoined to show the love of God and seek to witness rather than judge.

We need to appreciate that God is love, and "...not willing that any should perish", as He said, but many will in rebellion against God. In the Church in this age of grace, we are as lambs or sheep in the world and not physical conquerors. We are not to follow and be like the world, but after the Kingdom of God. The Church is not like the Israelite religion and is all about grace and not ordinances or engaging the heathen world in conflicts. One can see in Romans 13 that God makes a distinction between the world order and the Church of God in killings, and where man must "render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's" (Mark 12:17). - RLD

 
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hedrick

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It's not just Joshua. Throughout the OT Israel did things that wouldn't be acceptable according to Jesus, not to mention the 10 commandments. I think it's a bad idea to defend it. Either God's ethics changed -- which seems unlikely -- or people of that time didn't fully understand them, even though God did choose them.
 
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juvenissun

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I just finished the Book of Joshua for the first time, and I'm a little taken aback at the theft of precious metals and the murder of children. The Hebrews describe YWHW as approving of such behavior. But yet they knew the precepts at that time of "Do not steal" and "Do not murder". How do you explain their behavior? I'm a little shocked by it.

God says: FIRST, you should have no other gods.
God's command helps Israelis to do just that. In order to do the First Commandment, every mean is justified.
 
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cyberlizard

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I just finished the Book of Joshua for the first time, and I'm a little taken aback at the theft of precious metals and the murder of children. The Hebrews describe YWHW as approving of such behavior. But yet they knew the precepts at that time of "Do not steal" and "Do not murder". How do you explain their behavior? I'm a little shocked by it.


Yes... this would be the same God, Jesus called his Father.

Like Father, Like Son!


Steve
 
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RDKirk

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I just finished the Book of Joshua for the first time, and I'm a little taken aback at the theft of precious metals and the murder of children. The Hebrews describe YWHW as approving of such behavior. But yet they knew the precepts at that time of "Do not steal" and "Do not murder". How do you explain their behavior? I'm a little shocked by it.

I'll repeat what I said in another current thread:

It's also a matter of how one views the bible as primitive-history/literature/revelation...and both the hyper-religious and the anti-religious both for their own purposes insist on reading the bible as though it was precise modern history rather than literature and revelation, and totally ignore its primitive nature even as history.

I read the bible as the recounting by limited men of their real encounter with an unlimited God.

Limited men: We have discovered that the Bronze Age men who wrote the Old Testament had not yet "discovered" the color blue. If the OT writers--and even ancient extra-biblical sources--were unable to express something as seemingly obvious to us as the color blue...what other seemingly obvious to us concepts were they unable to express? What did they miss entirely, what were they unable to understand, what were they unable to express in terms plainly meaningful to us today?

And knowing they were limited--but not knowing precisely how they were limited--how much stock can we place either pro-God or anti-God on what the plain words say about God? Yet, both pro-God and anti-God people speak as though the OT is a modern history written with all the methodology and modern taxonomy of modern historians.

As has been mentioned, everyone in that day was hyper-religious by our standards. All acts would have been explained in some way as an act or intention of God. "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."-- Isaiah 45.

Christians ought to realize that the Holy Spirit is necessary to interpret such things correctly. It was by the Holy Spirit that Paul was able to say:

For it is written in the law of Moses, Do not muzzle an ox while it treads out grain. Is God really concerned with oxen? Or isn’t He really saying it for us? Yes, this is written for us, because he who plows ought to plow in hope, and he who threshes should do so in hope of sharing the crop.1 Corinthians 9

IOW, Iron Age Paul acknowledges that Bronze Age Moses didn't completely understand what he himself had written of what God actually meant.

How would Iron Age John's Revelation be described if that same vision had been experienced by a Space Age kid who was familiar with Star Wars and Star Trek?
 
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Crowns&Laurels

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The Old Testament is similar to Game of Thrones- it's epically gritty ^_^

In all seriousness though, God did not bargain with wickedness before Christ redeemed us. The OT is dark, because the world was dark- there was no grace. What you may see as wrong wasn't really wrong then.
 
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