Lindsey Graham to call for Confederate flag to come down

Paul of Eugene OR

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Well, some say that the United States was founded on slavery, to preserve it.

Maybe we should demand stores stop selling the American flag.

The United States has within it the ability to make itself better.

When first founded, women were not allowed to vote. Now they are.
Slavery was allowed and now it is not.
Now children are given a free education.
Now health insurance cannot be denied.

There is room for further improvement . . . maybe we'll get some reasonable regulation for firearms one of these days . . . but we are a work in progress.
 
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praying

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You can say that, but it's a monument to young men who fought--and died--for their homeland, and reasonable people should honor the commitment of such men, especially in their home state. Few of the Confederate troops owned slaves, by the way, and even fewer thought that they were fighting for the preservation of slavery.
Here is the South Carolina convention in 1860, explaining the rationale for secession:

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery.
 
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pakicetus

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On a different day, progressives will decry the American flag as a symbol of "racism".

I've seen so many people complain about things the liberals secretly want to do, or will do in the future, it would be refreshing to see them complain about things liberals actually do and say, in reality.

I actually want to replace the American flag (though I don't think it's racist), I actually want socialism and I actually want to ban all the guns, and I'm tired of liberals getting credit for my causes that they're not supporting.
 
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Albion

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Here is the South Carolina convention in 1860, explaining the rationale for secession:

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery.
Although you quoted me, your comment doesn't address what I wrote there. I don't know if you're aware of that.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Although you quoted me, your comment doesn't address what I wrote there. I don't know if you're aware of that.

It's a monument for men who fought and died for slavery. I don't know if you're aware of that.
 
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Albion

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It's a monument for men who fought and died for slavery. I don't know if you're aware of that.
It is not "a monument for men who fought and died for slavery." Is it that you know little of American history or is the "problem" here more one of intention?
 
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TLK Valentine

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It is not "a monument for men who fought and died for slavery." Is it that you know little of American history or is the "problem" here more one of intention?

Were you under the impression that there was a more important reason they died? A bigger reason for the South wanting to secede? Don't start grumbling and mumbling buzzwords like "sovereignty," or "freedom" unless you're ready to answer what they really wanted...
 
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DaisyDay

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You can say that, but it's a monument to young men who fought--and died--for their homeland, and reasonable people should honor the commitment of such men, especially in their home state. Few of the Confederate troops owned slaves, by the way, and even fewer thought that they were fighting for the preservation of slavery.
The flag is not a monument. There are actual monuments to the Civil War soldiers, but the flag is not one. If they didn't know that their state seceded to preserve slavery, then they fought and died in ignorance - because South Carolina seceded to preserve the institution of slavery - that's in the charter.
 
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Albion

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If they didn't know that their state seceded to preserve slavery, then they fought and died in ignorance - because South Carolina seceded to preserve the institution of slavery - that's in the charter.

Is that to be taken seriously? Every historian, including the ones who absolutely lay the war at the door of slavery, knows that the average soldier did not fight because he wanted slavery to continue (among the Confederate soldiers) or, conversely, for it to be ended (among the Union soldiers).

There are many reasons a person volunteers and fights, not the least of which is to defend his home and country. Not only do you not have a point from an historical POV, but you're arguing a point that just about everyone knows is illogical--saying that every recruit, including those that probably DID NOT want to serve, and those who resented the slaveholders (there were many of them) did so simply because of what some politicians said at the time of secession.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Is that to be taken seriously? Every historian, including the ones who absolutely lay the war at the door of slavery, knows that the average soldier did not fight because he wanted slavery to continue (among the Confederate soldiers) or, conversely, for it to be ended (among the Union soldiers).

Many of them fought because they either were drafted and couldn't pay their way out, or they were sold a bill of goods from the powers that be.

Some things never change.

There are many reasons a person volunteers and fights, not the least of which is to defend his home and country.

Of course -- ignorance + nationalism = cannon fodder.

Again, some things never change.
 
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