Why do people believe in a Rapture?

Bro.T · Jun 19, 2015

yeshuasavedme said:
Tanzel: the Bible refutes you. If you would be a teacher in the Church of the Living God, then you must go learn first principles [the ABC'S] of the doctrine of the Living Oracles, given to the namesake people of the New Man name, for no man can teach contrary to the Doctrine/the Teaching, and be a teacher of the Word of God.
Heb 5:12 ... ye have need that one teach you... which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

It is detailed, by myself, here: The rapture of the Church is graduation to glory day:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...day-and-israels-time-for-restoration.7879917/

Everything Moses wrote to be made and made was a pattern of the things in heaven, and of the heavenly things.
The temple in heaven has doors:

Everything Moses saw to write was living oracles about the plan of God in Christ to redeem His own Adam creation and to restore them to all that the first father in Adam sold into sin and corruption.
The temple in heaven has doors.
The sons of the high priest go in and out of the temple.
When the sons of the high priest put on the garments, after the washing and anointing, they go into the temple, shut the doors behind them, and remain, celebrating the consecration of their priesthood as sons of the firstborn for one full week of seven days, hidden in the temple, behind the shut doors.

The sons cannot go in to serve as priests in the temple before the Son of Man until they get put on their new garments, which is the adoption body of flesh, and which is oracled in the garments made for Aaron's sons [Lev 8:33 -36 Lev 8:33 And ye shall not go out of the door of the tabernacle of the congregation in seven days, until the days of your consecration be at an end: for seven days shall he consecrate you., for the garments are oracles of the New Man flesh body, which the "made perfect in spirit saints [born again in Christ, the One Living Spirit]" of the ages receive, when the body is adopted into the Firstborn Son of God and has the New Name written in the DNA of it.
Rev 3:12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
The temple in heaven/City of God/New Jerusalem, is being built up "for the Glory", that all saints will be pillars of; and that City will not be on earth, but in the heavens above the earth, with free going in and out as it would have been from the beginning, if Adam had built it as I detail in my thread, which you must read if you want to know what the doctrine of the Oracles are on our salvation in Christ, which is redemption back, to what was lost in Adam.

But the temple in heaven is already built, and has been from the beginning of creation, and is "set in the sun", as I detail from Scripture, here:
The Created Temple of God, Which is in the Created Heavens
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-god-which-is-in-the-created-heavens.7259341/

The raptured saints will go into the temple in heaven, shut the doors behind them, and hide, and they go in to celebrate their consecration as priests in the heavenly priesthood, as adopted [in new man flesh bodies] sons of the Firstborn, they shut the doors behind them, while they are hidden there, celebrating.
Those are oracles of the adoption into the New Man and the heavenly priesthood the redeemed receive in His New Name, when they go right back into the realm in heaven that Adam was raptured to in his own new human being creation body of flesh named "Adam", and got cast down from, as a fallen/naphal son of God, as IU detailed already, from Psalm 82, in the original language, and Genesis 3, and Isaiah 28.

We must be born again in the One Living Spirit to enter into heaven in our adoption bodies, so as to serve in the priesthood there.
Our new creation human being bodies of flesh will not be Adam in spirit/nature, flesh, or blood, but are the new living flesh bodies, made in the Living Spirit, Spirit/nature, and yes -we will have blood, for the body of Christ has blood.

I'm going into the temple in heaven, at Jesus' own invitation as pr Isaiah 26:19-21, when Jesus calls for the gathering together unto Himself of His saints [the dead in Christ in heaven, and the alive and remaining on earth], as pr Isaiah 26:19-21, and comes out of His place into the in the air to receive us unto Himself, and He comes with the saints whom He brings with Him to receive their raptured bodies, and receives the alive and remaining born in Christ believers, all
gathered unto Himself, before His temple door in the heaven" -and we all go in and hide behind shut doors.

We who come with Jesus in the heavens to get our bodies raised from the dust of earth and we who alive and remaining and are changed in the blink of an eye, are all going to meet together in the heavens with Jesus, who tells us to "come in, shut the doors behind you, and hide yourselves for a little while, until the indignation be past" -and we hide for seven years, celebrating our consecration to the heavenly priesthood for a whole week of years, while back on earth, the LORD punishes the inhabitants of the earth -and restores Israel to Himself...ISaiah 26 -Isaiah 27
We go into the temple in heaven, and shut the doors behind us and celebrate our consecration to the heavenly order of the priesthood as sons of the Firstborn; and we will remain hidden behind the shut temple doors while the LORD also comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth, and a whole seven years of celebrating in heaven's temple will pass, for us, as it is oracled in the Living Oracles, in Leviticus chapter 8.
If you do not teach according to the doctrine/teaching of the living oracles, then you have no light in you, as the Scripture says.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Isa 27

Exo 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Heb 8:5 ...Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isaiah 6 At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.

Psa 11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:[/B]

Yeshuasavedme the Bible refutes you. You say, "Jesus is going to rapture us up to Heaven where he is" and you can't prove that, because the Bible speak of a different action. Again in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets take a closer look at the scripture and see what’s it talking about. Paul is telling people. Not to grieve over people death in Christ; cause they will be raise again, as surely as the virtuous people that are living will be changed. "For the Lord will descend, (which mean come down), and we all will be caught up (ascend) together in the clouds to MEET the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So all the saints will meet the Lord in the air with the Angels and come down, back to earth. The third heaven is above space, and above space, theres a body of water. So the Lord is coming from all the way up there, now the saints are coming from the earth to MEET the Lord in the clouds in the AIR, and then the saints are going back to earth. Lets go into Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Lets read this last part again in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

At the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with ALL HIS SAINTS. How clear is this brothers and sisters. You have to get understanding. Just because a person see the word heaven, it doesn't mean that every word that you see in the Bible that says heaven, is talking about the same thing. There are three heavens God created. First heaven is Earth, Second heaven is the sun, moon, stars, clouds. The Third heaven is above all, is where our Lord Father and Jesus Christ are. Lets take a look an example in Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

What else do you see when you look up and see the sun the moon and stars, you see the clouds, and didn't say in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Do we understand what meet means. Lets take a look at the meaning of the word meet. meet1 mēt/ verb 1. come into the presence or company of (someone) by chance or arrangement."a week later I met him in the street" synonyms: encounter, meet up with, come face to face with,run into, run across, come across/upon, chance on, happen on, stumble across/on;informalbump into "I met an old friend on the train"

Bro.T · Jun 19, 2015

Some people say, "Jesus is going to rapture us up to Heaven where he is" and when we ask them where they get that from that quote 1Thessalonians 4:13-17, to make a point or justify the rapture.13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets take a closer look at the scripture and see what’s it talking about. Paul is telling people Not to grieve over people death in Christ; cause they will be raise again, as surely as the virtuous people that are living will be changed. "For the Lord will descend, (which mean come down), and we all will be caught up (ascend) together in the clouds to MEET the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So all the saints will meet the Lord in the air with the Angels and come down, back to earth. The third heaven is above space, and above space, theres a body of water. So the Lord is coming from all the way up there, now the saints are coming from the earth to meet the Lord in the clouds, and then we are going back to earth. Lets go into Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Lets read this last part again in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

At the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with ALL HIS SAINTS. How clear is this brothers and sisters. You have to get understanding. Just because a person see the word heaven, it doesn't mean that every word that you see in the Bible that says heaven, is talking about the same thing. There are three heavens God created. First heaven is Earth, Second heaven is the sun, moon, stars, clouds. The Third heaven is above all, is where our Lord Father and Jesus Christ are. Lets take a look an example in Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

What else do you see when you look up and see the sun the moon and stars, you see the clouds, and didn't say in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Do we understand what meet means. Lets take a look at the meaning of the word meet. meet1 mēt/ verb 1. come into the presence or company of (someone) by chance or arrangement."a week later I met him in the street" synonyms: encounter, meet up with, come face to face with,run into, run across, come across/upon, chance on, happen on, stumble across/on;informalbump into "I met an old friend on the train"

yeshuasavedme · Jun 19, 2015

tanzel said:
Yeshuasavedme the Bible refutes you. You say, "Jesus is going to rapture us up to Heaven where he is" and you can't prove that,

I refute your own opinions with the Word of God, here:
It is detailed, by myself, here: The rapture of the Church is graduation to glory day:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...day-and-israels-time-for-restoration.7879917/

The face of heaven is the atmosphere, where the clouds and birds and planes and jets fly. In Genesis 1, it is called the "face" of heaven.
The heavens themselves are stretched out from the earth between the divided in two waters of creation, which were the waters God brought all things out of, in creation.
Paradise is in the third heaven. Paul says so, and Jesus says so, and ancients say so, and Enoch went into the heavens where Paradise, the Garden of Righteousness, is, and it is a realm of the heavens stretched out between the waters of creation which waters, the earth, below, was brought out of on day 3 of creation week.
The realm of heaven above the "face" is the "closed" heavens, for us. The face of heaven where the atmosphere is, is called the "open", in the Word of God: face and open are the same word, in Hebrew.
And your claim that the earth is "heaven" is totally not from the Word of God.

John 14:
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

keras · Jun 20, 2015

Those who believe in a rapture to heaven, simply haven't studied scripture properly. We are not appointed to wrath, they say, but plenty of scripture says we will be tested. Then, we are told, those who maintain their faith during the forthcoming test, will be protected and will eventually live with Jesus in all of the Holy Land. Psalm 69:34-36

James 5:1-6 A Word to you who are rich: Weep and wail over the miserable fate about to come upon you. Your great wealth is rotten, your fine clothes have become moth-eaten, your gold and silver is corroded and all your riches will be used as evidence against you. Your flesh will be consumed as by fire.
The end of the age is upon you, but you continue to store up wealth! All your fraudulent and dishonest actions, all those whom you cheated will cry out to indict you and the Lord has heard their cry. The innocent peoples, who cannot resist you are trampled down, while you have lived a life of luxury and self-indulgence and you continue to gorge yourself on the. finest foods But the Day of your slaughter fast approaches. All the earth’s peoples will be judged on that Day.

James 5:7-11 My brethren, you must be patient until the Lord comes. Consider a farmer waiting for the precious crop from his land. He can only wait in patience until the early and late rains have fallen. You too, must be patient and strong in courage, for the Return of the Lord is near. My friends, do not grumble and blame your troubles on one another, so that you won’t come under condemnation, for look – the Judge is standing at the door!
As an example of patience under ill-treatment, look to the prophets who spoke the messages of God. They suffered persecution, but they persevered and are now blessed and honoured. See how Job kept his faith through many trials. That story demonstrates how the Lord tests everyone, then in His great compassion and mercy, He rewards those who remain faithful to Him. Ref. REB. CJB.

A terrible disaster is about to come upon all the world, Amos 8:4-6, Matthew 19:21-24, Luke 6:24-26 It will fall on all those who refuse to acknowledge Him or follow His Laws. Isaiah 2:12, Isaiah 24:5, Romans 1:18, 2 Thess. 1:8 It will be triggered by an attack against Israel, Psalm 83, Micah 4:11-12, they will be wiped out. Ezekiel 30:1-5

On the Day of slaughter, flesh will be consumed by fire, everyone will be judged by the Lord on His terrible Day of vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 66:15-16, Jeremiah 23:19, Ezekiel 7:5-14, Joel 1:15, Zephaniah 3:8, Luke 21:35, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, Revelation 6:12-17

Now, in 2015, the church age is nearly over and the Judge is ready – at the very door. Deuteronomy 32:31-36, Isaiah 42:14, Job 19:29, Acts 17:31

The glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign is near, but a short time of Satan’s domination of the world must happen before the Return. Daniel 7:25, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Revelation 13:5

The Lord will reward those who keep their faith in Him: Isaiah 40:10, Psalm 94:12-15, Matthew 13:40-43, Romans 8:18

Eventually, at the Great White Throne judgement, Rev 20:11-13, all the living and the dead will be judged according to their deeds. But this initial judgement/punishment of the nations by fire from heaven, Malachi 4:1, Jer. 25:29-33, will be another ‘reset of civilization’ of similar magnitude to Noah’s Flood. The survivors will establish a One World Government and the Lord’s people – true righteous Israelites, of every tribe and tongue, Isaiah 66:18, will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 11:11-12, Ezekiel 20:34. Psalm 37:29, Amos 9:14-15

Interplanner · Jun 20, 2015

Keras,
you were recounting some views of people in a sort of 2nd hand way as though you were different, but then you said some of the same things. Can you explain?

You seem to have inside knowledge about ways to split up the way passages are attached to all your events. For ex., the Lk 6 quote is limited to one particular expression of God's wrath that you seem to know about but is no where else indicated. Can you explain?

keras · Jun 20, 2015

Interplanner said:
Keras,
you were recounting some views of people in a sort of 2nd hand way as though you were different, but then you said some of the same things. Can you explain?

You seem to have inside knowledge about ways to split up the way passages are attached to all your events. For ex., the Lk 6 quote is limited to one particular expression of God's wrath that you seem to know about but is no where else indicated. Can you explain?

Yes, I can see how my post would be confusing for people, like everyone here, who have preconceived ideas of what the end times will bring. The true facts of God's plans are hidden to most, I do not say I know it all, either!

Amos 8:4-6, Matthew 19:21-24, Luke 6:24-26 These 3 quotes show how those rich, complacent and uncaring people will be judged in the forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath.

vinsight4u · Jun 20, 2015

Bro.T · Jun 20, 2015

yeshuasavedme said:
I refute your own opinions with the Word of God, here:
It is detailed, by myself, here: The rapture of the Church is graduation to glory day:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...day-and-israels-time-for-restoration.7879917/

The face of heaven is the atmosphere, where the clouds and birds and planes and jets fly. In Genesis 1, it is called the "face" of heaven.
The heavens themselves are stretched out from the earth between the divided in two waters of creation, which were the waters God brought all things out of, in creation.
Paradise is in the third heaven. Paul says so, and Jesus says so, and ancients say so, and Enoch went into the heavens where Paradise, the Garden of Righteousness, is, and it is a realm of the heavens stretched out between the waters of creation which waters, the earth, below, was brought out of on day 3 of creation week.
The realm of heaven above the "face" is the "closed" heavens, for us. The face of heaven where the atmosphere is, is called the "open", in the Word of God: face and open are the same word, in Hebrew.
And your claim that the earth is "heaven" is totally not from the Word of God.

John 14:
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Earlier in this post I went over some of those verses. John 14:3,4 talks about Jesus preparing a place on earth and coming back to earth, not taking anybody to the third heaven. The place Jesus is talking about is in the Lord's prayer. Lets go to Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Jesus business is the earth.

Bro.T · Jun 20, 2015

Shepherd Master said:
The ones taken out are the evil ones, they are plucked out by the root.

The Righteous remain.

There is no rapture.

I agree with you that theres no rapture, but the ones being taken are those who come up in the first resurrection (saints). Lets skip back to Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Lets take a look an example in Revelation 11: 11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. Now these two guys was dead, but all the saints not going to die when the Lord comes. Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15: 1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. So all the saints (elect) whether dead or alive will be gather to the Lord in the clouds. Paul say in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints

Bro.T · Jun 20, 2015

keras said:
Those who believe in a rapture to heaven, simply haven't studied scripture properly. We are not appointed to wrath, they say, but plenty of scripture says we will be tested. Then, we are told, those who maintain their faith during the forthcoming test, will be protected and will eventually live with Jesus in all of the Holy Land. Psalm 69:34-36

James 5:1-6 A Word to you who are rich: Weep and wail over the miserable fate about to come upon you. Your great wealth is rotten, your fine clothes have become moth-eaten, your gold and silver is corroded and all your riches will be used as evidence against you. Your flesh will be consumed as by fire.
The end of the age is upon you, but you continue to store up wealth! All your fraudulent and dishonest actions, all those whom you cheated will cry out to indict you and the Lord has heard their cry. The innocent peoples, who cannot resist you are trampled down, while you have lived a life of luxury and self-indulgence and you continue to gorge yourself on the. finest foods But the Day of your slaughter fast approaches. All the earth’s peoples will be judged on that Day.

James 5:7-11 My brethren, you must be patient until the Lord comes. Consider a farmer waiting for the precious crop from his land. He can only wait in patience until the early and late rains have fallen. You too, must be patient and strong in courage, for the Return of the Lord is near. My friends, do not grumble and blame your troubles on one another, so that you won’t come under condemnation, for look – the Judge is standing at the door!
As an example of patience under ill-treatment, look to the prophets who spoke the messages of God. They suffered persecution, but they persevered and are now blessed and honoured. See how Job kept his faith through many trials. That story demonstrates how the Lord tests everyone, then in His great compassion and mercy, He rewards those who remain faithful to Him. Ref. REB. CJB.

A terrible disaster is about to come upon all the world, Amos 8:4-6, Matthew 19:21-24, Luke 6:24-26 It will fall on all those who refuse to acknowledge Him or follow His Laws. Isaiah 2:12, Isaiah 24:5, Romans 1:18, 2 Thess. 1:8 It will be triggered by an attack against Israel, Psalm 83, Micah 4:11-12, they will be wiped out. Ezekiel 30:1-5

On the Day of slaughter, flesh will be consumed by fire, everyone will be judged by the Lord on His terrible Day of vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 66:15-16, Jeremiah 23:19, Ezekiel 7:5-14, Joel 1:15, Zephaniah 3:8, Luke 21:35, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, Revelation 6:12-17

Now, in 2015, the church age is nearly over and the Judge is ready – at the very door. Deuteronomy 32:31-36, Isaiah 42:14, Job 19:29, Acts 17:31

The glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign is near, but a short time of Satan’s domination of the world must happen before the Return. Daniel 7:25, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Revelation 13:5

The Lord will reward those who keep their faith in Him: Isaiah 40:10, Psalm 94:12-15, Matthew 13:40-43, Romans 8:18

Eventually, at the Great White Throne judgement, Rev 20:11-13, all the living and the dead will be judged according to their deeds. But this initial judgement/punishment of the nations by fire from heaven, Malachi 4:1, Jer. 25:29-33, will be another ‘reset of civilization’ of similar magnitude to Noah’s Flood. The survivors will establish a One World Government and the Lord’s people – true righteous Israelites, of every tribe and tongue, Isaiah 66:18, will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 11:11-12, Ezekiel 20:34. Psalm 37:29, Amos 9:14-15

Praise the Lord for some good understanding. I agree there is no rapture. When the Lord makes his second coming, test time is over. Today is the time in life to get thing right with the Lord. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1Peter 4:17,18) Now the house of God are those who know better. These are people who know to keep the Lord's Sabbath day on the Seventh day of the week (Saturday) and his High days, Commandments, Statues, and Judgements.

Bro.T · Jun 20, 2015

vinsight4u said:
The righteous are left as the new heavens and new earth will be coming soon.
The millennium is over by then.
The righteous/ sheep inherit the kingdom.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

The rapture is when John saw the earth reaped in Rev. 14.
It is sickle - harvest time!
It will be after the 6th seal is opened and before the 7th one is opened.

How is that a rapture, seeing the earth reap. Sound like destruction, infact most people who believe in the rapture will be the ones getting reap, by the wrath of God. Because they are the ones who sitting back waiting on something to happen thats not going to happen, no matter how much truth you show them. Most of those people will receive the Mark on them, because they feel comfortable in believing that they will be taken up somewhere. This is what happen when the angles see you with the Mark, in Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Looks like its best to die without the Mark then with the Mark.

yeshuasavedme · Jun 21, 2015

tanzel said:
Earlier in this post I went over some of those verses. John 14:3,4 talks about Jesus preparing a place on earth and coming back to earth, not taking anybody to the third heaven. The place Jesus is talking about is in the Lord's prayer. Lets go to Matthew 6:9]After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name 10 hy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven Jesus business is the earth.

As it is in heaven, so it shall be on the earth.
As it was in heaven before the fall, so it was on the earth below, with union between them, and Adam was raptured/taken from earth below to heaven above, and Adam was set in Paradise above, in the third heaven, to work in God's Garden and to guard it, as Genesis says, in the Hebrew, and Adam did have fellowship daily with God the Word, who walked with Adam in the cool of the evening..., in Paradise, in the third heaven, as Scripture says.
And heaven and earth will be united again, in the Son of Man, when He takes His power unto Himself and reigns over this earth which He has purchased back, which His created human being flesh brother, Adam, sold into sin and corruption in the fall: The ransom back, to restore what was lost, is what God the Word -the Son of Man in heaven- came in new creation human being flesh to this earth to do, as the Kinsman/Redeemer of the Adam creation, to bring it back to Himself, and have fellowship with the adopted sons, in Paradise above and on earth below.
The confessing and repentant thief who died on the cross went to Paradise, in the third heaven, when he departed his soul when his flesh died on the cross, for the Son of Man is in heaven, as God the Word sitting on the throne there, and He is come in human being flesh of second human being creation as brother/Kinsman/Redeemer, to the Adam creation which Adam creation was made in His own flesh/bodily image [that was to come: Romans 5:14, Genesis 1:28], and because He is God the Word, second Person in the Triune YHWH, who is the One on the throne in heaven [whom Isaiah saw, in Isaiah 6:, as John says in John 12:37-42]; who is come in human being flesh of new creation, by putting on the Garment of Salvation/Yeshua which was prepared for Him to put on, by the Spirit, in the womb of the virgin, and coming in that flesh as Kinsman/Redeemer, while never leaving heaven empty of Himself as the Son of Man/God the Word, on the throne in heaven, then HE could tell the repentant thief on the cross: "today you will be with Me in Paradise".
While the soul departed the flesh body of the Christ come in flesh, which body could not corrupt because it is the True Mercy Seat typed by Moses as solid gold, and that human being soul of the Christ come in human being flesh was in Sheol below, giving the sins and iniquities laid on His soul by the Father to "Azazel", who is chained there, and then gathering all the righteous souls who were waiting in peace there, for His Day, which was promised from Genesis 3:15, and to lead them out of the captivity of the first death [of separation from the Father of Glory in Paradise above] -while He was doing that, as I said; The thief had died, and was immediately taken into Paradise above, because there was no more first death of separation from the Father of Glory for the ransomed souls born in Adam who believe int he promise of Salvation in the Name of the Kinsman/Redeemer, and His Atonement.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

hn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John says Isaiah saw Jesus in heaven, on the throne [the Son of Man in heaven on the throne was always "the Son of Man in heaven", on the throne, and He is come in flesh by His Own One Living Spirit/Christ, putting on the Garment of Salvation, which Garment is "Yeshua/Salvation", and is the human being body prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin, as Isaiah 59 teaches us, to come as Kinsman/Redeemer in that flesh, of the Adam creation, so as to Buy Back with His own blood of Atonement, His created "sons", and with them, "Plant the heavens", for the Glory of the invisible Living Spirit, to indwell.

Jhn 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
Jhn 12:41...These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Isaiah sees Jesus as the Son of Man in heaven, on the throne:
Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

Where is Paradise? -in the third heaven, above earth, which heaven is not "open" for us since the fall, and will be "open again", in the millennial reign -and forever.

12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;
4 [How that he was caught up/raptured into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

vinsight4u · Jun 21, 2015

vinsight4u · Jun 21, 2015

Interplanner · Jun 21, 2015

Don't base anything on the Rev that is not crystal clear in ordinary language elsewhere in the letters or Gospels.

Bro.T · Jun 22, 2015

yeshuasavedme said:
As it is in heaven, so it shall be on the earth.
As it was in heaven before the fall, so it was on the earth below, with union between them, and Adam was raptured/taken from earth below to heaven above, and Adam was set in Paradise above, in the third heaven, to work in God's Garden and to guard it, as Genesis says, in the Hebrew, and Adam did have fellowship daily with God the Word, who walked with Adam in the cool of the evening..., in Paradise, in the third heaven, as Scripture says.
And heaven and earth will be united again, in the Son of Man, when He takes His power unto Himself and reigns over this earth which He has purchased back, which His created human being flesh brother, Adam, sold into sin and corruption in the fall: The ransom back, to restore what was lost, is what God the Word -the Son of Man in heaven- came in new creation human being flesh to this earth to do, as the Kinsman/Redeemer of the Adam creation, to bring it back to Himself, and have fellowship with the adopted sons, in Paradise above and on earth below.
The confessing and repentant thief who died on the cross went to Paradise, in the third heaven, when he departed his soul when his flesh died on the cross, for the Son of Man is in heaven, as God the Word sitting on the throne there, and He is come in human being flesh of second human being creation as brother/Kinsman/Redeemer, to the Adam creation which Adam creation was made in His own flesh/bodily image [that was to come: Romans 5:14, Genesis 1:28], and because He is God the Word, second Person in the Triune YHWH, who is the One on the throne in heaven [whom Isaiah saw, in Isaiah 6:, as John says in John 12:37-42]; who is come in human being flesh of new creation, by putting on the Garment of Salvation/Yeshua which was prepared for Him to put on, by the Spirit, in the womb of the virgin, and coming in that flesh as Kinsman/Redeemer, while never leaving heaven empty of Himself as the Son of Man/God the Word, on the throne in heaven, then HE could tell the repentant thief on the cross: "today you will be with Me in Paradise".
While the soul departed the flesh body of the Christ come in flesh, which body could not corrupt because it is the True Mercy Seat typed by Moses as solid gold, and that human being soul of the Christ come in human being flesh was in Sheol below, giving the sins and iniquities laid on His soul by the Father to "Azazel", who is chained there, and then gathering all the righteous souls who were waiting in peace there, for His Day, which was promised from Genesis 3:15, and to lead them out of the captivity of the first death [of separation from the Father of Glory in Paradise above] -while He was doing that, as I said; The thief had died, and was immediately taken into Paradise above, because there was no more first death of separation from the Father of Glory for the ransomed souls born in Adam who believe int he promise of Salvation in the Name of the Kinsman/Redeemer, and His Atonement.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

hn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John says Isaiah saw Jesus in heaven, on the throne [the Son of Man in heaven on the throne was always "the Son of Man in heaven", on the throne, and He is come in flesh by His Own One Living Spirit/Christ, putting on the Garment of Salvation, which Garment is "Yeshua/Salvation", and is the human being body prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin, as Isaiah 59 teaches us, to come as Kinsman/Redeemer in that flesh, of the Adam creation, so as to Buy Back with His own blood of Atonement, His created "sons", and with them, "Plant the heavens", for the Glory of the invisible Living Spirit, to indwell.

Jhn 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
Jhn 12:41...These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Isaiah sees Jesus as the Son of Man in heaven, on the throne:
Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

Where is Paradise? -in the third heaven, above earth, which heaven is not "open" for us since the fall, and will be "open again", in the millennial reign -and forever.

12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;
4 [How that he was caught up/raptured into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Adam was not rapture, nor ever in the third heaven. Jesus says with his own mouth in John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. You can't get past this. Except the truth!

Bro.T · Jun 22, 2015

vinsight4u said:
I'll have to look up the meaning of reap. When the wheat and the tares get
divided up, the reapers will be the angels that take the tares away.
I see reap as meaning take. I'll check and post if it is something else.
In Revelation 14, the sickle shows that harvest time has come, and Isaiah 18
refers to how He will rest -as in after the harvest. He will consider in His
dwelling place. I think this is the time of silence of the 7th seal. God will take
a rest before sending out the trumpets angels again. This time they will
have the vials and pour them out on the wicked.

I see Galatians 6:8 has the word reap used in it.
I see that John of Revelation is the same person as the apostle John that was
on the mount at the time of transfiguration. This is when some of the disciples
were shown what it would be like when the Son of man comes back. So I think this
is why John refers to him in Revelation 14:14 as one like the Son of man. Same
for the time he did this in Revelation 1:13.

Adding Luke 10:2.

You ever heard the saying, you reap what you sow. Another words what you do or say will come back on you. Some people call it karma. Isaiah 34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2 For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. 3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

yeshuasavedme · Jun 22, 2015

tanzel said:
Adam was not rapture, nor ever in the third heaven. Jesus says with his own mouth in John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven[/SIZE], but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven]. You can't get past this. Except the truth!

I think you mean "accept" the truth, not "except". You do not use words correctly nor do you "rightly divide the Word of God, laying out the Scriptures in rows like a farmer plants his seed, so as to compare Scripture with Scripture", for context.
Elijah ascended to heaven. Elijah was raptured to heaven.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah ascended/alah by a whirlwind into heaven.

2Ki 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken/raptured/laqach]

Enoch was raptured to heaven.
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God laqach/raptured/took him.
Moses is in heaven in his own body which is not transformed to the glory body, and is returning to die again in the same, and be resurrected in the regenerated body, with Elijah, and ascend in a rapture to heaven, mid-trib.

Elijah is in heaven, and is in his own flesh body not transformed and is coming back to preach, with Moses, in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years after the Church is raptured [which is raptured before the tribulation]; and they will preach that which they were eyewitnesses of, which is the birth of the incarnated Messiah, His Life, His preaching of His Gospel, His death, His resurrection, and His ascension into heaven and His soon return to earth to cleanse the earth of all Evil and to set up His kingdom of Peace for the Sabbath Millennium.

Elijah and Moses are very much alive and in their own bodies and they are in heaven, and on there they were, in the Gospel accounts, on very high Mount, the mount of transfiguration, talking with JEsus about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.

Elijah and Moses were seen by Peter, James, and John, when the LORD was transformed and they saw His glory, and they saw with their own eyes Elijah and Moses who were there, in their own bodies of flesh, speaking with Jesus about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.
The Word of God is God's Word, and the prophets of God are His prophets, and Jesus does not contradict His own Word that His own prophets wrote, that Enoch and Elijah both were raptured to heaven, and ascended to heaven, so the problem of denying the Word of God is yours, for your doctrine does not allow the Word of God to be Truth, but your own words twisting it to what it does not claim as truth.

Jesus was speaking about the ascension to the throne in heaven, which throne was prepared for Him, who was to come as God the Word, in flesh, in whose very image [that was to come] Adam is made in.
That throne in heaven is God's throne on Eden, the very high Mountain of God in the realm of the outstretched earth which Adam was "raptured/laqach" to, in the beginning, to labor and guard the Garden of Righteousness/Paradise, as "Adam, son of God...Adam died as Adam son of God and did not get to sit on the throne with the Son of Man in heaven, which was going to happen after his transformation after he lived his "day", but Adam died and got cast down to earth below and did not ascend to the throne to be seated with the Son of Man in heaven, in whose image Adam is made. To inherit the throne of Glory with the Son fo Man in heaven, we must be born again, in the One Living Spirit, and regenerated in body of flesh.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus is going to share that throne that He, in the Form of God the Word and Son of Man has always sat upon in heaven, from the beginning, and when He ascended in the flesh body of second human being creation,m HE sat down on that throne as the Son of Man in flesh, and HE will give the share of that throne to His own adopted sons, adopted out of Adam; and no man has ascended to that throne but the Son of Man who is in heaven, and who is come down in second creation human being flesh, as Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam creation.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

An Adam person, in the dead Adam spirit, named Nimrod -& his companions, tried to ascend to take over the throne of God in heaven, and because it is not possible for any man to do that except those sons whom Jesus adopts out of Adam and invites to share it with Him, who is seated on it in His human being body flesh -and always was there as the Son of Man in heaven.

He promises to share that throne to His adopted sons after they are cleansed and regenerated in body and are rewarded in heaven, with their jobs to do, from there, over earth below -which does not happen until the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture of the alive and remaining in Christ, before the great Tribulation which is to come.

In Isaiah 14, a descendant of Nimrod, who is an Adam in spirit and in flesh, is guilty of the trespass of his ancestors; and God holds the controversies with the rebel Adam spirit and flesh each soul is born in, in Adam, and He will come to settle all controversies at His return to earth to reign, and if one has not settled the personal controversies God has with his own Adam ancestry, by repentance for the sins of the fathers, by His blood covenant, before that time, then one will die the second death forever. It is good to believe God and repent and be born again in the Name of the promised Seed of the Woman, and to have all controversies settled that taint the spirit and soul of each seed born in Adam.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Samuel's mother, Hannah, had read the Book of Enoch and quoted from it about inheriting the Throne of Glory, [in the Name of the New Man]:
1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.[/B]

BABerean2 · Jun 22, 2015

yeshuasavedme said:
His own prophets wrote, that Enoch and Elijah both were raptured to heaven, and ascended to heaven, so the problem of denying the Word of God is yours, for your doctrine does not allow the Word of God to be Truth, but your own words twisting it to what it does not claim as truth.
...Elijah and Moses are very much alive and in their own bodies...

Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

yeshuasavedme · Jun 22, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated...

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth...

Yes, Moses died. So did Lazarus. So did others in the Word, and were resurrected in their bodies, to die again, in the same bodies....
Lazarus was dead three days....Jesus raised him, to die again.

Moses is in heaven, in his own body, which Satan could not have [for eating the dust of it -the legal right of the evil spirits called Satan, and which "eating of the dust of the flesh is "corruption"], as Jude tells us -which Jude knew from a book which we do not have which tells about the resurrection and ascension of Moses in his own body.
There Moses stood, on the high Mount which Jesus took the three disciples up onto, who saw His transfiguration to glory; and they saw Elijah and Moses talking with Jesus about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.
They are the Two witnesses who will not die until the kingdom comes in power, who were standing there among the disciples when Jesus made that remark just a few days before He allowed Peter, James, and John to see them with Him, talking to Him about His upcoming death in Jerusalem..

Why do people believe in a Rapture?

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