Genesis Creation OR THIS?

bhsmte · Jun 17, 2015

AllanV said:
There is no requirement to prove God. The seed is either inherent or not and a person cannot be convinced beyond what their mind will allow. It is good to share with believers and this forum is called Christian but there is some indication it could be run by Atheists.

You can always choose to frequent the "Christian only" portions of the board, where non believers are not allowed. That way, you are protected from having to deal with people who disagree with you.

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
Well I would be happy to look at your sources to the extent that I can. I assume you are looking at this from both sides as well and not getting the views of science from listening to creationists. I can generally be fairly objective when I need be. I also assume this is about understanding what the evidence means rather than just using the evidence to promote some forgone conclusion?

It is all time consuming. Information comes from different places and more often than not from science magazines and reports. There is a need to be open to what is going on. A personal mental filter is required. There are many scientists who become creationists and they say it happened over time as technology and time has given them the tools.
It may not be that important though because there are things occurring around the world at an alarming rate indicating our world could change very quickly. A conclusion will happen and the situation is more precarious than any one would want to believe. With nuclear weapons everything could change in an hour as described in scriptures. The west will lose but there can be no winners.

Genetics indicates we could live forever but my contention is what kind of mind and nature would be required. It is a matter of fact that scientists are working on the reasons for and a cure of aging and death at this time. It will be for the wealthy no doubt or those who follow a predetermined ideology.
Will it succeed?

The problem is there is something called salvation in the Bible and the word means to be healed or saved. Immortality was lost in the beginning but will be found again. It will be inherited by the meek.
It is part of an overview of what is written and is more of a practical solution rather than the religion it presents as today.

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

bhsmte said:
You can always choose to frequent the "Christian only" portions of the board, where non believers are not allowed. That way, you are protected from having to deal with people who disagree with you.

Doing this helps to refine and strengthen belief with out being physically attacked. It also shows me where I would have been in my belief if these things had been thought about at all, that is.

About 7 years ago a 30 year old physics graduate attacked me and got me in a choke hold while sitting at a table. It was broken up and he said he tried and wanted to kill me. It can get serious for some.
My own sons are problematic.
To me science is now explaining what the scriptures are actually relating in regards to where God is and how close and how He actively makes everything seen appear at every instant.
I had that revelation at 26 years old and was shown a mind picture of it all. It would have been difficult if not impossible not to believe the experience as true.

bhsmte · Jun 17, 2015

AllanV said:
Doing this helps to refine and strengthen belief with out being physically attacked. It also shows me where I would have been in my belief if these things had been thought about at all, that is.

About 7 years ago a 30 year old physics graduate attacked me and got me in a choke hold while sitting at a table. It was broken up and he said he tried and wanted to kill me. It can get serious for some.
My own sons are problematic.
To me science is now explaining what the scriptures are actually relating in regards to where God is and how close and how He actively makes everything seen appear at every instant.
I had that revelation at 26 years old and was shown a mind picture of it all. It would have been difficult if not impossible not to believe the experience as true.

Then I wouldn't complain about encountering others who disagree with you. By the way, what indication do you have, that this board is run by atheists?

Lastly, I would appreciate it, if you would address my questions in post #98.

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

bhsmte said:
In your opinion then, God decides to inherently plant the seed in some people, but not others?

Why would a God who cares for all his creation do that?

Why do 2/3 of the worlds population not agree with Christianity? Did God choose to doom all these people, by not inherently planting the seed in them?

Every one has something inherent in them but it is difficult to wake this up. Genetics shows or indicates a possibility of a longer life or even immortality but the natural mind is based around the death of the cell only and cannot see passed this. The mind and body are completely together.
The Bible indicates immortality is a reality.

It is possible to have a self realization but I would say it is necessary to find this and then let it go completely. It is all in the mind. The energy coming out of the person changes. There is regeneration rather than entropy, decay, mutation and death and this effect can occur even in a being that is going to die. This is the indwelling of God.

The seed implanting occurs when the mind can see and is then drawn passed what is occurring in the cells.

It is not opinion. Free will means that people, individuals are able to develop their own mind as much as they are able in this world of manipulation, deception, indoctrination, misinformation etc. with input from the natural senses. The natural mind is locked in.

Why? is a big question. One answer is that once seen and refused there is no getting what is lost back. That person is lost for ever. If a person goes through their whole life without knowing then in the future they will have the opportunity of choice outside of their biological influence with its mind. I am sure there will be a technology or something like it that will bring people back from the grave to be judged. That is what the resurrection is about.

The Christianity that has been looked into is a problem for me. From the outside it looks awkward but try walking through the door and then sit listening and get involved.

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
Who are the people who know these things? What did David Attenborough say or was it someone else drawing conclusions from what he said. Science is continually making new discoveries and sometimes they refute the old.

Own conclusions are drawn from what is seen and personally I couldn't believe how far he went, but read later that many scientists were saying such a creature wouldn't fly.

Google it, YouTube it, that's what i do these days.

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

bhsmte said:
Then I wouldn't complain about encountering others who disagree with you. By the way, what indication do you have, that this board is run by atheists?

Lastly, I would appreciate it, if you would address my questions in post #98.

I am not complaining.

Givemeareason · Jun 17, 2015

AllanV said:
Own conclusions are drawn from what is seen and personally I couldn't believe how far he went, but read later that many scientists were saying such a creature wouldn't fly.

Google it, YouTube it, that's what i do these days.

Okay, but what does that mean to you if that is true?

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
Okay, but what does that mean to you if that is true?

There are some who are mischievous, and know what they are doing but feel big enough not to care.
It is dishonest.

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
That being the case, you should probably not engage in trying to prove God which is what creationists try to indirectly do.

The thread is "genesis-creation-or-this" isn't that indirectly doing?

Givemeareason · Jun 17, 2015

AllanV said:
There are some who are mischievous, and know what they are doing but feel big enough not to care.
It is dishonest.

I was just reading about the argument of whether pterosaurs are speculated as having been too heavy to fly. I don't think that is all that new though as I remember them from long ago as being described as gliding cliff dwellers. In any case, what significance do you see in that?

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
I was just reading about the argument of whether pterosaurs are speculated as having been too heavy to fly. I don't think that is all that new though as I remember them from long ago as being described as gliding cliff dwellers. In any case, what significance do you see in that?

It was a week ago that the program was on TV. With animations etc a false idea is being given.

Givemeareason · Jun 17, 2015

AllanV said:
The thread is "genesis-creation-or-this" isn't that indirectly doing?

I started this thread based on the awe inspiring high resolution scan of our closest neighboring galaxy M31 which is only 1.5 million light years away. Within that galaxy individual stars become visible by the billions. But then if you know astronomy there are another 100 billion or so other galaxies scattered and clustered throughout the universe. Just looking at this one galaxy similar to our own spiral galaxy we live in it becomes breathtaking. So the question was how could such a tiny little god as depicted in Genesis and throughout the old testament have created things of such incredible proportion. Now personally I have come to understand the Genesis story as a story that was needed for goat herders to ponder over. But as someone who has long followed astronomy such a story is not suitable for me.

Givemeareason · Jun 17, 2015

AllanV said:
It was a week ago that the program was on TV. With animations etc a false idea is being given.

What false idea?

AllanV · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
I started this thread based on the awe inspiring high resolution scan of our closest neighboring galaxy M31 which is only 1.5 million light years away. Within that galaxy individual stars become visible by the billions. But then if you know astronomy there are another 100 billion or so other galaxies scattered and clustered throughout the universe. Just looking at this one galaxy similar to our own spiral galaxy we live in it becomes breathtaking. So the question was how could such a tiny little god as depicted in Genesis and throughout the old testament have created things of such incredible proportion. Now personally I have come to understand the Genesis story as a story that was needed for goat herders to ponder over. But as someone who has long followed astronomy such a story is not suitable for me.

The whole story of the Bible is that the eternal God is not a tiny little God. I must admit I would probably never read such a Book if my mind had not been opened up to Him in a powerful way.

God fills the whole universe. God makes everything seen appear the way it does at every instant. God is an observer just beyond and a little deeper than the mind that is thought from. God is in the effect of gravity and the forces in the atom and also the life in the cell. The Eternal God covers Himself with light as with a garment. The electromagnetic effect in all of creation is what the Eternal God covers Himself with as a garment. This is significant in the preparation of a future technology.

You are making another assumption. Many through out the bible had things revealed to them about health, what to eat and a potential to be immortal and how it was lost. It also reveals the consequences of only following the natural senses and an individual driven along by self belief only, acting on what comes to mind.
It also explains the ability people have to get into the subconscious and influence the feelings of others.

It is easy to say the people of the past were not sophisticated thinkers and probably this was true for many of them if the stories are believed.

What impresses me having seen as much as can be, the size of space, the smallest particles go in the other direction more or less equally. Only a small percentage of everything seen is regarded as solid the rest is free space.

Givemeareason · Jun 17, 2015

AllanV said:
The whole story of the Bible is that the eternal God is not a tiny little God. I must admit I would probably never read such a Book if my mind had not been opened up to Him in a powerful way.

God fills the whole universe. God makes everything seen appear the way it does at every instant. God is an observer just beyond and a little deeper than the mind that is thought from. God is in the effect of gravity and the forces in the atom and also the life in the cell. The Eternal God covers Himself with light as with a garment. The electromagnetic effect in all of creation is what the Eternal God covers Himself with as a garment. This is significant in the preparation of a future technology.

You are making another assumption. Many through out the bible had things revealed to them about health, what to eat and a potential to be immortal and how it was lost. It also reveals the consequences of only following the natural senses and an individual driven along by self belief only, acting on what comes to mind.
It also explains the ability people have to get into the subconscious and influence the feelings of others.

It is easy to say the people of the past were not sophisticated thinkers and probably this was true for many of them if the stories are believed.

What impresses me having seen as much as can be, the size of space, the smallest particles go in the other direction more or less equally. Only a small percentage of everything seen is regarded as solid the rest is free space.

I do not understand God. I am fixated on Jesus.

Winepress777 · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
I started this thread based on the awe inspiring high resolution scan of our closest neighboring galaxy M31 which is only 1.5 million light years away. Within that galaxy individual stars become visible by the billions. But then if you know astronomy there are another 100 billion or so other galaxies scattered and clustered throughout the universe. Just looking at this one galaxy similar to our own spiral galaxy we live in it becomes breathtaking. So the question was how could such a tiny little god as depicted in Genesis and throughout the old testament have created things of such incredible proportion. Now personally I have come to understand the Genesis story as a story that was needed for goat herders to ponder over. But as someone who has long followed astronomy such a story is not suitable for me.

It's suitable for me. This is my God;

(Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(Job 9:8) Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

(Job 9:9) Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

(Job 9:10) Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.

(Job 38:4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

(Job 38:5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

(Job 38:6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

(Job 38:31) Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

(Job 38:32) Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

(Job 38:33) Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

(Isa 44:6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Givemeareason · Jun 17, 2015

Winepress777 said:
It's suitable for me. This is my God;

(Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(Job 9:8) Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

(Job 9:9) Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

(Job 9:10) Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.

(Job 38:4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

(Job 38:5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

(Job 38:6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

(Job 38:31) Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

(Job 38:32) Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

(Job 38:33) Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

(Isa 44:6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I was not aware Arcturus the name of a well known star, Pliedes the name of an open star cluster or Orion a most prominent constellation were in the bible. Of what significance were these things in the bible?

KWCrazy · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
The point to be made here is why should Christians today need to adhere to a simple creation story as written in Genesis and argue with science over how the universe was created.

The law of cause and effect states that for everything that happens there is a cause. The universe came into existence, therefore the universe had a cause. Science cannot identify that cause. Genesis does. Jesus, who was there to witness the events of Genesis, referenced them as factual. Why would a Christian deny the word of the Lord to embrace a scientific explanation which can't explain the origination of anything? Moreover, why would Christians look to the study of the natural world for answers to a supernatural origination?

There are 333 miracles in the Bible, all of which are scientifically impossible. Either science fails miserably in its claim of the supremacy of naturalism or the Bible is nothing but lies. In that case, why would one follow a liar who claimed to return from the dead? How does one decide which miracles to accept and which to reject? If one single miracle happened then science doesn't have all the answers. If no miracles happened than why waste time believing in a false God?

Winepress777 · Jun 17, 2015

Givemeareason said:
I was not aware Arcturus the name of a well known star, Pliedes the name of an open star cluster or Orion a most prominent constellation were in the bible. Of what significance were these things in the bible?

Other than the God you call "tiny" creating them? Lots... read the questions God puts to Job. You will see why Job was humbled. He began recognizing how big God was... which I think is your topic

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