Did Adam sin?

toLiJC · Jun 17, 2015

smaneck said:
Where did you get this from?

satan promised eve that if they "eat" of the forbidden tree, the so-called "third eye" will ostensibly be opened in both of them (but it could actually appear in the human, because no one has such a congenital eye), and it is known this is possible through the occult process also known as yoga (meditation), the forbidden tree is occultism and idolatry for the humans

Blessings

GillDouglas · Jun 17, 2015

Jane_the_Bane said:
But that sounds like the sort of reasoning that also gave us a PERPETUALLY virginal Mary who was immaculately conceived.
Isn't it enough to believe that God conquered death in order to pardon us all and put an end to scapegoating and the terrible logic of sacrifice once and for all?

Sorry, but the debt of sin was too great to just wave a magic wand to make it go away. The debt is covered by the blood of Christ, and God will no longer see our sin.

Catherineanne · Jun 17, 2015

Niblo said:
I have a step sister whose dad was also an alcoholic. He died when she was about six. My dad married her mum some years after my mum died (she had cancer).

On a lighter note: My step mum was a district nurse in the Rhondda. One day she bumped into a young lass whose dad she used to visit. Their conversation went:

'Well hello, Mary. And how's your dad then?'

'Oh...he's died, Mrs Lewis. He died last week see.'

'Oh dear....there's a pity. What did he die of, then?'

'Well, nothing serious!'

Lol! May we all die of something not serious. Like extreme old age. : )

Catherineanne · Jun 17, 2015

Theway said:
That's just it....
For Adam and Eve at that time in the Garden, following God would have been no different than following Satan in their minds. In fact, Satan wasn't exactly lying to Eve... Nor did Eve lie to Adam.

satan is a liar and the father of all lies. He is incapable of ever telling the truth.

toLiJC · Jun 17, 2015

Catherineanne said:
That is a non-standard explanation of original sin.

exactly
unfortunately the true explanation of this had not been (fully) understood by most worshipers

Blessings

toLiJC · Jun 17, 2015

Jane_the_Bane said:
Somebody needs a dictionary...

why?!, what is the solecism?!

Niblo · Jun 17, 2015

Catherineanne said:
Lol! May we all die of something not serious. Like extreme old age. : )

Only if I can still muster a few marbles

As my youngest (a daughter) said to me on my 50th birthday: 'Well, it's downhill all the way now, dad. And when going downhill things run faster and faster!'

She is no longer in the Will

Catherineanne · Jun 17, 2015

Niblo said:
Only if I can still muster a few marbles

I lost mine years ago. I just pretend now. : )

h2omanz · Jun 17, 2015

I cannot remember where I got this from but put in my notes as I have many that say God trapped them into sinning(which ironically is a lie from satan

True love has to be tested or its not love its false, Here's the best way to explain it.. What if two godly parents living in the most wicked city in the world chose never to let their children out of their house. They gave them everything they needed for survival inside the house. They filled their home with only good things. Their children never saw evil on television, heard of it on the radio, nor read of it in books. The children could play in any room in the house and open any door, except they had been forbidden to open the front door that leads to “Sodom and Gomorrah.” Do these children know what they can do and cannot do? Yes. Have they seen, witnessed, or experienced the evil outside their house (and compared that evil to the good within their own house)? No. Everything in their house was good. They had the freedom to do any number of things within their own house. They were forbidden to do one thing: open the front door. Did they know they were not supposed to open the front door? Yes. But did they know of the evil on the other side? No. They had never seen it, heard it, thought it, or experienced it. They disobeyed God and sin is the result of disobedience, not a trick. They chose to deny the only thing God told them that was forbidden, they had everything they needed they denied Him and sin entered the world.

Niblo · Jun 17, 2015

Catherineanne said:
I lost mine years ago. I just pretend now. : )

Ah......but you are an Anglican after all!

Ken Rank · Jun 17, 2015

ChetSinger said:
Is this LDS doctrine? Reading Romans 5 makes it crystal clear, imo, that Adam sinned.

What is sin? Sin according to John (1 John 3:4) is being outside the Law. So the question is, what is the Law? The answer is not what most Christians expect... the word Torah doesn't mean "law" even though we translate it that way. When Israel became a nation the Torah became the rule of law for that nation... it was it's constitution and that is where we get the idea of law. But the word Torah means directions, instructions, one lexicon even defines it as, "The throwing of a finger in the direction one is to walk or live." So... if God gives an instruction and we don't do it, we have sinned. Adam was told not to eat, he ate, thus he sinned because he went against an instruction given to him by God.

TheBarrd · Jun 17, 2015

Catherineanne said:
That is a good point. God warned Adam against eating the fruit, but did not warn him against satan's lies.

I've believed a few lies in my life, and I know what a lie is.
How could these poor folks know they were being lied to, when they didn't even know what a lie was?

Catherineanne · Jun 17, 2015

TheBarrd said:
I've believed a few lies in my life, and I know what a lie is.
How could these poor folks know they were being lied to, when they didn't even know what a lie was?

It's a mystery.

Weaser999 · Jun 17, 2015

Sin is the result of free will. Love is a choice. Why does God allow all these bad things to happen to us? Because we are given the choice to act as we please. Our own sinful actions is what causes all the pain and hurt in this world. The only person man can blame for the state of this world is himself. Satan provokes us to sin more. In some cases, God will test our faith and love by allowing us to go through hard times, but as the Bible says, we won't be tempted beyond what we can handle.

TheBarrd · Jun 17, 2015

Theway said:
That's just it....
For Adam and Eve at that time in the Garden, following God would have been no different than following Satan in their minds. In fact, Satan wasn't exactly lying to Eve... Nor did Eve lie to Adam.

I can't agree with that.
After all, Adam and Eve knew that God was their creator, and they knew that He had told them not to eat the fruit.
The snake was a newcomer.
Now I stand by what I said...those innocent people would not have recognized a lie, let along the father of lies...but to say that following a snake would be the same as following their Creator is pushing it a bit.
Still, they should have recognized that what the snake was saying contradicted what God had said...
How confusing it must have been for poor Eve...

Weaser999 · Jun 17, 2015

TheBarrd said:
I've believed a few lies in my life, and I know what a lie is.
How could these poor folks know they were being lied to, when they didn't even know what a lie was?

The lie isn't the cause of the sin. Acting opposite to what God told them to do was. Adam and Eve had no excuses. They were told not to eat from the fruit. And they did. So in other words, they believed Satan over God.

Which is why God sent Jesus to rectify the situation. I like to look at it from a different approach. If I was an ant, and a telepathic human told me he loved me and didn't want me to march north because I would die, yet gave me the choice to march north anyways. The ant doesn't realize the aardvark is north of the hill, but the telepathic human does. The ant thinks to itself... I don't want this human to tell me what to do, and marches north and dies. How could the telepathic human allow such a thing? Free will. The human could have easily stepped in front of the ant to block it's path, but that just forces the ant to obey without a choice. Now God sent Jesus to allow us to have our sins removed.. without doing so, we would die. God doesn't force us to accept his offer, but is wanting us to take the gift.

Calminian · Jun 17, 2015

fatboys said:
im asking this question because there are many who believe that Adam is a dirty dog. Here is my reasoning to why they are not and were following the plan of God. Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden. They were innocent of knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them and Eve partook of the fruit and gave it to Adam. I believe that Adam and Eve disobeyed Gods law to not eat the fruit. God had told them not to eat of the fruit or they would die. Since there had not yet had death enter into the garden did they understand what the consequences of their choice? Since they did not know good and evil, could Adam and Eve understood what the law was and the consequences? They did disobey and as a result death came into the world. Sin also came into the world because of imperfection. I believe that to justice it does not matter if someone disobeys having full knowledge and understanding of the law broken or if someone is innocent of the law. It is still disobedience and there are consequences that must come as a result. The punishment is the same. Logic dictates that this was Gods plan all along because why would he allow satan to tempt them? Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted. I believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit so mortality would come to this earth as well so we could know good from evil. To experience the opposites of life so we could continue to progress. So to me Adam and Eve did not sin. They did transgress Gods law which had the same punishment.

Actually, Adam did sin. What you say above is a better description of Eve.

1Tim. 2:14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

It's also not true to say Adam didn't understand the consequences of his actions. He didn't have knowledge of specific sins that become innate to him later, but he had knowledge of one evil, and had knowledge of the consequences of that evil. God gave Adam language and an innate understanding of the words in that language. He understood death quite well. He had an understanding of the concept of sin and consequence, he just didn't have the law in his heart yet, as Paul talks about in Romans 2.

Here's an article that might be helpful: Did Adam Know Any Better?

Pastor Glenn · Jun 17, 2015

fatboys said:
im asking this question because there are many who believe that Adam is a dirty dog. Here is my reasoning to why they are not and were following the plan of God. Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden. They were innocent of knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them and Eve partook of the fruit and gave it to Adam. I believe that Adam and Eve disobeyed Gods law to not eat the fruit. God had told them not to eat of the fruit or they would die. Since there had not yet had death enter into the garden did they understand what the consequences of their choice? Since they did not know good and evil, could Adam and Eve understood what the law was and the consequences? They did disobey and as a result death came into the world. Sin also came into the world because of imperfection. I believe that to justice it does not matter if someone disobeys having full knowledge and understanding of the law broken or if someone is innocent of the law. It is still disobedience and there are consequences that must come as a result. The punishment is the same. Logic dictates that this was Gods plan all along because why would he allow satan to tempt them? Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted. I believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit so mortality would come to this earth as well so we could know good from evil. To experience the opposites of life so we could continue to progress. So to me Adam and Eve did not sin. They did transgress Gods law which had the same punishment.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

smaneck · Jun 17, 2015

Niblo said:
As my youngest (a daughter) said to me on my 50th birthday: 'Well, it's downhill all the way now, dad. And when going downhill things run faster and faster!'

I was even meaner than your daughter. For my father's 50th birthday I took him to see Harry Belafonte who was nearly five years senior to my dad. After watching Belafonte's gorgeous body prancing around the stage, I asked me my father "why don't you look like that?"

ScottA · Jun 17, 2015

fatboys said:
im asking this question because there are many who believe that Adam is a dirty dog. Here is my reasoning to why they are not and were following the plan of God. Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden. They were innocent of knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them and Eve partook of the fruit and gave it to Adam. I believe that Adam and Eve disobeyed Gods law to not eat the fruit. God had told them not to eat of the fruit or they would die. Since there had not yet had death enter into the garden did they understand what the consequences of their choice? Since they did not know good and evil, could Adam and Eve understood what the law was and the consequences? They did disobey and as a result death came into the world. Sin also came into the world because of imperfection. I believe that to justice it does not matter if someone disobeys having full knowledge and understanding of the law broken or if someone is innocent of the law. It is still disobedience and there are consequences that must come as a result. The punishment is the same. Logic dictates that this was Gods plan all along because why would he allow satan to tempt them? Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted. I believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit so mortality would come to this earth as well so we could know good from evil. To experience the opposites of life so we could continue to progress. So to me Adam and Eve did not sin. They did transgress Gods law which had the same punishment.

It is counted as sin, but your point is appreciated. God is indeed just, to turn their curse into a blessing.

Did Adam sin?

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