How Were Other Nations Outside of Israel Saved?

Why is it that Joshua could not give God's people rest? What IS God's rest?

God's rest is rest from one's own effort.

Hebrews 4:10For the person who has entered His rest has rested from his own works, just as God did from His.

Joshua escorted Israel into the Promised Land, but Israel never entered God's rest.

The text says that she never entered rest because she had disobeyed:

Hebrews 4:2For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

3For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,

“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”

although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Apparently entering rest is not entering the Promised land because Israel DID enter the Promised Land. What then IS the rest David speaks of:

Hebrews 4:7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

Rest is the final destination of God”s Holy Spirit, as it moved from being in the Tabernacle within the camp of Israel, to being in Solomon’s Temple in the Promised Land, to being in Christ when He rose up from being baptised in the River Jordan.

God’s rest therefore is the rest in Christ.


http://www.frame-poythress.org/ebooks/the-shadow-of-christ-in-the-law-of-moses/


Quote
We may return to the same conclusion that we reached before: the sacrifice of animals is inadequate to achieve final cleansing, nor can it cleanse anything more than the copies of heavenly things. Then who will bring the definitive sacrifice? A man must do it. A similar point is made indirectly in Num. 35:33-34: “Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it. Do not defile the land where you live and where I dwell, for I, the LORD, dwell among the Israelites.” When a man had shed blood, the man must die. But there is one exception, when the blood of the death of the high priest releases a manslaughterer to return home (Num. 35:25-28). The blood of the high priest has special value. In agreement with this principle, Zech. 3 uses all the symbolism of a defiled human high priest Joshua and then speaks mysteriously of the Branch in connection with which “I will remove the sin of this land in a single day” (Zech. 3:9).

IDEA MODULE 1

The real Tabernacle, Israel, Temple, Promised Land, is Christ, who in turn is the new Man, the second Adam, the restored humanity.

Those who are in the new humankind, in Christ, are the beneficiaries of the will which was executed when the first humankind died, IN Christ, of which Christ Himself is the first fruit.


IDEA MODULE 2

Being in Christ is a process.

If we walk in the light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all unrighteousness.


Synthethic paralleism

1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Eternal life is having Christ. Having Christ is God working in us to harvest eternal treasures, treasures in heaven.


Next we will study the topic of why Israel was given the Law.

Its very clear that God never intended to place a burden of the law on the forefathers of Israel, a burden which even the disciples found too hard to bear.


And God expresses His regret that when the Israelites asked for the Law He agreed to the request.


Jeremiah 7:22"For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. 23"But this is what I commanded them, saying, 'Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you will be My people; and you will walk in all the way which I command you, that it may be well with you.'


Its possible that God was going to raise the Messiah in the wilderness, so that Israel could have rest, because the text says that they too had the Good News preached to them, but because of their disbelief, He did not send Messiah then. God agreed to let Israel have the Law SO THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE MESSIAH IN THE FUTURE.


But they took the oracles which was to be a light to Israel and to the nations around them, and used it as a means to be justified, seeking a righteousness of their own.


By means of the Law no one can be justified. In fact all those who were justified were those who had failed at observing the Law and turned to God for mercy: the publican, Elizabeth, Zacharias, and the persons of faith of Hebrews 11.


IDEA MODULE 3


Israel was favoured, she possessed the oracles, was the bearer of good news, but the name of God was disgraced because she was NOT a light to the Gentiles.



IDEA MODULE 4

The law revealed sin. Whilst the Gentiles had to depend on their conscience, Israel had the Law which quickly brought its faithful observers to their knees, IF THE OBSERVERS WERE LOYAL, AND DID NOT SUBSTITUTE THE LAW WITH MAN MADE TRADITIONS.

Achilles6129 said:

Hi Guys,

Have a question for you. How were other nations outside of Israel saved in the Old Testament? They obviously didn't have access to the Torah, and, interestingly enough, as far as I am aware, the Torah really doesn't tell the Jews to go out and evangelize (unlike the New Testament).

If it's not necessary to keep the Torah in order to obey God's commands, then why did God give Israel the Torah?

It does seem as though it's actually unnecessary to have access to the Torah or any other portion of Scripture in order to obey God's commands. Noah, Abraham, etc., didn't apparently have access to them, and yet they were righteous men. Thoughts?

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People were saved just like Abraham was, as he had a relationship with the Lord.

Remember, Abraham was a Gentile.

Abraham had a relationship with the same Lord as we do, before He became flesh.
We are grafted into the Covenant the Lord made with Abraham, that included Gentiles.

The Abrahamic Covenant has been "renewed" or "refreshed" and has become the New Covenant.


49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all,
50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish."
51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation,
52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad. John 11:49-52

By saying "not for that nation only" the Holy Spirit is indicating there were Gentiles who were God's Children in other nations.



JLB

Wordkeeper said:

Why is it that Joshua could not give God's people rest? What IS God's rest?

God's rest is rest from one's own effort.

Hebrews 4:10For the person who has entered His rest has rested from his own works, just as God did from His.

Joshua escorted Israel into the Promised Land, but Israel never entered God's rest.

The text says that she never entered rest because she had disobeyed:

Hebrews 4:2For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

3For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,

“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”

although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Apparently entering rest is not entering the Promised land because Israel DID enter the Promised Land. What then IS the rest David speaks of:

Hebrews 4:7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

Rest is the final destination of God”s Holy Spirit, as it moved from being in the Tabernacle within the camp of Israel, to being in Solomon’s Temple in the Promised Land, to being in Christ when He rose up from being baptised in the River Jordan.

God’s rest therefore is the rest in Christ.


http://www.frame-poythress.org/ebooks/the-shadow-of-christ-in-the-law-of-moses/


Quote
We may return to the same conclusion that we reached before: the sacrifice of animals is inadequate to achieve final cleansing, nor can it cleanse anything more than the copies of heavenly things. Then who will bring the definitive sacrifice? A man must do it. A similar point is made indirectly in Num. 35:33-34: “Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it. Do not defile the land where you live and where I dwell, for I, the LORD, dwell among the Israelites.” When a man had shed blood, the man must die. But there is one exception, when the blood of the death of the high priest releases a manslaughterer to return home (Num. 35:25-28). The blood of the high priest has special value. In agreement with this principle, Zech. 3 uses all the symbolism of a defiled human high priest Joshua and then speaks mysteriously of the Branch in connection with which “I will remove the sin of this land in a single day” (Zech. 3:9).

IDEA MODULE 1

The real Tabernacle, Israel, Temple, Promised Land, is Christ, who in turn is the new Man, the second Adam, the restored humanity.

Those who are in the new humankind, in Christ, are the beneficiaries of the will which was executed when the first humankind died, IN Christ, of which Christ Himself is the first fruit.


IDEA MODULE 2

Being in Christ is a process.

If we walk in the light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all unrighteousness.


Synthethic paralleism

1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Eternal life is having Christ. Having Christ is God working in us to harvest eternal treasures, treasures in heaven.


Next we will study the topic of why Israel was given the Law.

Click to expand...

True rest has yet to come, but is awaited for by those who are Christ's, in the 1000 year reign with Christ.

True rest is when this body has be replaced with a sinless glorified body that will never die and shines like the sun.

Only then will the people of God be at peace from the war of the flesh striving against the Spirit within.

Those who are Christ's do enter that rest by faith.


JLB

Did Sarah rest in God's promise to Abraham?

Nope. Ishmael resulted, who persecuted Isaac.

Did Israel rest in the God's promise to Abraham?

Nope. The Law resulted, and the son of slavery persecuted the son of the promise.

Are we persecuted by the Law?

Nope. Therefore we have rested.

Do not disbelieve like the Israelites, of whom God said, they shall never enter my rest. But TODAY, if you hear His voice, do not disbelieve, but make all efforts to ENTER THAT REST!

JLB777 said:

True rest has yet to come, but is awaited for by those who are Christ's, in the 1000 year reign with Christ.

True rest is when this body has be replaced with a sinless glorified body that will never die and shines like the sun.

Only then will the people of God be at peace from the war of the flesh striving against the Spirit within.

Those who are Christ's do enter that rest by faith.


JLB

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Wordkeeper said:

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JLB777 said:

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Keyboard pressed wrong. Ooops!

Wordkeeper said:

So why did God give the Law, since Abraham managed to get into heaven without it?

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Judaism and Christianity are about more than getting into heaven. In the OT, the Law has a couple of purposes:

* To show people how to live as God wants them to
* To distinguish the Jewish people from others

The prophets saw God’s final purpose as being to bring the whole world to himself. They saw all people gathering in Jerusalem. The purpose of the Jewish people was to be God’s representative on earth, to call everyone to God.

Jesus, following Jeremiah, saw the first purpose as only partly accomplished by the Mosaic Law. In the end its role in showing us how to live was largely replaced by the new covenant which wrote the Law in our hearts. Similarly, we are now distinguished by faith in Christ. But our goal is still the same: to bring the whole world to God.

hedrick said:

Judaism and Christianity are about more than getting into heaven. In the OT, the Law has a couple of purposes:

* To show people how to live as God wants them to
* To distinguish the Jewish people from others

The prophets saw God’s final purpose as being to bring the whole world to himself. They saw all people gathering in Jerusalem. The purpose of the Jewish people was to be God’s representative on earth, to call everyone to God.

Jesus, following Jeremiah, saw the first purpose as only partly accomplished by the Mosaic Law. In the end its role in showing us how to live was largely replaced by the new covenant which wrote the Law in our hearts. Similarly, we are now distinguished by faith in Christ. But our goal is still the same: to bring the whole world to God.

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It helps if we realise that the people in the text are dealing with metaphysical issues and describing their situation with language that is current to their situation. In the ANE, a largely agrarian culture, the terms employed would be common to that culture, using land, planting, crops, trees, gardens, springs to describe God's dealings . For example, when the term rest is used, it means enjoying the fruits of one's labour. Just as a gardener sits back and enjoys the flowers and ultimately the fruit that result from his efforts, God rested, waited for fruit.


When God saw Sarah taking steps to bring to fruition the free gift He promised Abraham, using Hagar, He must have thought, "Shucks, why'd she go and do that? She's jest askin' for a heap load of trouble!"


According to the text, that's what God thought, when Israel set about bringing to fruition the free gift God promised Abraham.


In today's modern, industrial world, the situation of law is the situation a mechanic is in when he is hired to put together a car. At the end of the day, all he has is a paycheck.


The situation of grace is when a Son is given, who puts together the car. At the end of the day, he gets, inherits the car. Puts a whole new twist to the phrase, "law written on his heart".

Tangible said:

Any pre-Christ Gentiles that were saved were saved the same way as any Jews were saved or any Christians are saved from the time of Christ until now: By God's grace, through God-given faith in the revealed promises of God, and ultimately through Jesus Christ, the full and final revelation of God's revealed promises.

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Exactly, good post.

Achilles6129 said:

It is interesting, however, that the Jews were never asked to go and evangelize the Torah to other nations. The same is not true with Christianity.

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Again, when Israel acted disbelievingly, God did not stop her, just as He did not stop Sarah. In fact, God brought Hagar back to Abraham's camp when Sarah tried to drive her away.


Similarly, when Israel asked for the law, God decided to use Israel for a different purpose, to be an oracle bearer, reveal to the world His plan of salvation, His Messiah, His Way and how people should serve Him. These were types, shadows of a future reality. If Israel obeyed the law, she would be saved, justified, but not sanctified. The sacrifices were revelations of how believers in the future would be sanctified and how faith had to be manifested by disciples.


Israel studied scripture because they believed it had the word of eternal life, but the words pointed to the work of Christ, the righteousness of God, His faithfulness to His promise to Abraham, His just, righteous fulfilment of an obligation, not to a righteousness of her own, a result of her efforts.


A question arises. Did God intend for His commands to be viewed that way? Were the heroes of faith to understand that the promised land was only a type of the new humanity, that the old humanity was not their real intended body, that God had always intended for Adam to have a heavenly city, a heavenly body?



Hebrews 11:13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.


Were believers to understand that abiding in Christ was possible only by offering their bodies as living sacrifices, when they read this:


2 Kings 17:24The king of Assyria brought men from Babylon and from Cuthah and from Avva and from Hamath and Sepharvaim, and settled them in the cities of Samaria in place of the sons of Israel. So they possessed Samaria and lived in its cities. 25At the beginning of their living there, they did not fear the LORD; therefore the LORD sent lions among them which killed some of them. 26So they spoke to the king of Assyria, saying, “The nations whom you have carried away into exile in the cities of Samaria do not know the custom of the god of the land; so he has sent lions among them, and behold, they kill them because they do not know the custom of the god of the land.” 27Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, “Take there one of the priests whom you carried away into exile and let him go and live there; and let him teach them the custom of the god of the land.” 28So one of the priests whom they had carried away into exile from Samaria came and lived at Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.



Well Paul taught that Scripture had to be read and understood spiritually:



1 Corinthians 9:9For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING." God is not concerned about oxen, is He?



In summary, God intended the Law to be "performed" to inform Gentiles about His plan of salvation.



God intended the Law to be obeyed, to humble and to make its observers turn to God out of failure, and be justified, because He always answers when called, as the publican found out.


Israel's mistakes:


She thought messianic descriptions pointed to her, her faithfulness, a righteousness of her own. But it was the the righteousness of God, dikaiosune theou, the faithfulness of God, which she had not believed and rested in.


Israel replaced the law, which was meant to humble, with tradition, which was a source of pride, because she believed she had been given possession by God because she was great, in spite of evidence to the contrary, given by the prophets.

Achilles6129 said:

It is interesting, however, that the Jews were never asked to go and evangelize the Torah to other nations. The same is not true with Christianity.

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Hi achilles,

I believe that's because the Torah isn't a guidebook to salvation. As I mentioned earlier, there is no discussion between God and man in the old covenant of one's gaining salvation by keeping the law. The way of salvation was not made available to anyone until Jesus actually died and paid the price for sin. Just as Jesus told the Pharisees, you search the Scriptures thinking that in them you have salvation. Then he goes on to explain that the Scriptures were just an explanation to them about him and that it was him they needed to come to for salvation.

So, there is no reason to go out and evangelize that everyone should keep the law, although today we have so many who do. The message from God to mankind didn't become valuable to all of mankind, until Jesus had paid the price for sin. That's when God asks us to go out and tell all peoples of all nations.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

miamited said:

Hi achilles,

I believe that's because the Torah isn't a guidebook to salvation. As I mentioned earlier, there is no discussion between God and man in the old covenant of one's gaining salvation by keeping the law. The way of salvation was not made available to anyone until Jesus actually died and paid the price for sin. Just as Jesus told the Pharisees, you search the Scriptures thinking that in them you have salvation. Then he goes on to explain that the Scriptures were just an explanation to them about him and that it was him they needed to come to for salvation.

So, there is no reason to go out and evangelize that everyone should keep the law, although today we have so many who do. The message from God to mankind didn't become valuable to all of mankind, until Jesus had paid the price for sin. That's when God asks us to go out and tell all peoples of all nations.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

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Excellent answer, short, clear, more direct than mine!

hedrick said:

Judaism and Christianity are about more than getting into heaven. In the OT, the Law has a couple of purposes:

* To show people how to live as God wants them to
* To distinguish the Jewish people from others

The prophets saw God’s final purpose as being to bring the whole world to himself. They saw all people gathering in Jerusalem. The purpose of the Jewish people was to be God’s representative on earth, to call everyone to God..

Click to expand...

Right... it has less to do with election as "who goes to heaven and who goes to hell" and more about being salt and light.

And maybe there is some truth to it. Look at how influential a tiny nation of people has been in history. A large portion of the worlds population follows an Abrahamic religion.

FireDragon76 said:

Right... it has less to do with election as "who goes to heaven and who goes to hell" and more about being salt and light.

And maybe there is some truth to it. Look at how influential a tiny nation of people has been in history. A large portion of the worlds population follows an Abrahamic religion.

Click to expand...

However, the text says they were given the revelation of what God was going to do in fulfilling His promises to Abraham. Law and especially circumcision were shadows of a future event that would save God's people from their sins:


Romans 3:1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?


Other than that, Torah is a subset of the Law that is written on every human being's heart, accusing and defending the deeds they did, and there was no one righteous, not one, even the Jew, and the wages of sin was death. Justification only happened if a person, Jew or Gentile, confessed he was a sinner.

Luke 18:13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."


Isaiah 66:2Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.