[PERMANENTLY CLOSED]Sex change?

Patrick Bateman said:

I don't see what's not to understand. If God wanted a person to be female, He would make them female.

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Hi,
Do you remember this phrase?:
'And if God had wanted man to fly, he would have given him wings.'
What is to understand Biblically is more, of what God has said. If you wish on a technical issue like this, notice there are no details like this in the Bible.
If you say there are, that is precisely some of the reasons Galileo was censored. It was not just because he was out of control, it is because his ideas ran contrary to scriptures, and they said so.
Are you not possibly making the same mistake? Where is trangender in The Bible? Where did God say, I made man in the 'Or' fashion? Where? I made them male and female. What in the same body? It doesn't say. It does say this though, Do Science. Follow the Laws of The Government.
Science, a command by God under the blessing of subdue the earth in Genesis, says transgender is real.
Government laws in America say to transition if you are transgendered, and God says for us to follow those laws, in Romans 13:1-5.
So, lets see, twice God says trangender is okay. No where does God say Transgender is wrong. And you think He said and thinks otherwise?
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

topcare said:

That's not even the same. One is a physical deformity (cleft lip and cleft palate) which you don't see people going around saying it's normal and the other (trans, lgbt, etc) is a mental illness that instead of trying to help people try to celebrate as normal. It is not normal when a man wants to be a women or vice versa and they should be helped but instead society chooses to treat it as a normal thing and not get them the mental help they really need.

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As someone with a clip lip and palate, is transgender, and had depression, I don't feel normal at all. You are right, transgender people aren't normal, just like I don't have a normal lip. Actually, the first step of transition is psychotherapy, for GID (which by the way is the in DSM, along with every other psychological illness). You are confusing normalizing with acceptance, I don't know anyone, transgender or not, that considers transgender people to be the norm.

topcare said:

That's exactly what society wants you to think. There is no world where it's normal wanting to be the opposite gender, it is very much a mental illness and one that because of God hating society is going unchecked and celebrated. The worst part is that the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the Church at large so much that even Christians celebrate things against nature and mental illness.

It will not be long before pedophilia, murders, and matter of things become alright because after all that's just how they are and we can't tell them to stop we must embrace them as they are. Christians are to be loving but it's not loving to let people continue in their disease if they can be helped and just say oh well that's just how they are. The loving comes in getting them the mental help they need and not celebrating their disorder

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Except we really don't have a better way to treat transgender people outside of hormones and surgery. Stephanie, Tink, and I (I'm sure many transgender) all agreed that if there was a fix where we didn't have to go through all of that, we would take it. It has been proven that it's not simply a delusion, delusions can be broken down over time, this cannot, it is apart of who we are, which for me began to show from early childhood.

topcare said:

All I need to know is that they are doing something unnatural and that is against what God did. God created male and female, period no in-between no women in a man's body or vice versa. Now people may have that mental abnormality because of the fall but that in no wise means that we should give into them. When society participates in allowing a man to rip his parts off or a woman than that is not help. Help would be to help them understand that desire is abnormal but they can have normal thinking through help. Help is not enabling, allow bruce to pretend to be a woman is enabling

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I'm not going to mention the numerous intersex disorders out there because that's not the point of the thread. We may be mentally abnormal in the statistical sense, but we know what our gender is just as much as you do.

No you don't or else you would not need perversion

topcare said:

No you don't or else you would not need perversion

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No we don't. Plus, you've yet to even really explain where in the Bible you are getting the idea that changing your sex is sinful.

topcare said:

That's not even the same. One is a physical deformity (cleft lip and cleft palate) which you don't see people going around saying it's normal and the other (trans, lgbt, etc) is a mental illness that instead of trying to help people try to celebrate as normal. It is not normal when a man wants to be a women or vice versa and they should be helped but instead society chooses to treat it as a normal thing and not get them the mental help they really need.

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You are highly mistaken and speaking solely out of your own head, without any evidence to support it. They are more similar than you think. BOTH are effects of a physical trait. There has not been ANY evidence yet that what has been found clinically has any error in it. The clinical evidence points to the fact that transsexual brains are structured just as the brains of the gender to which they claim identity, and nothing like the brains of those who are similar in genetics and genitalia. It isn't a mental illness. What IS a mental illness is insisting that something is true even when there is a mountain of evidence to demonstrate that it is false.

I have NEVER seen or heard or known any transsexual that believes their condition to be normal. Transition is the only treatment ever tried which has been found HIGHLY efficacious in relieving the agony of the condition. If you have ANY other treatment to suggest that has any benefit please enlighten us. If not, then you are condemning millions of people to a life of agony that IS treatable. And simply for the benefit of your own comfort. That is evil.

topcare said:

All I need to know is that they are doing something unnatural and that is against what God did. God created male and female, period no in-between no women in a man's body or vice versa. Now people may have that mental abnormality because of the fall but that in no wise means that we should give into them. When society participates in allowing a man to rip his parts off or a woman than that is not help. Help would be to help them understand that desire is abnormal but they can have normal thinking through help. Help is not enabling, allow bruce to pretend to be a woman is enabling

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God created people with cleft lips and palates. God created people conjoined. God created people with a myriad of other conditions. Why do you suppose He did that? So you could curse them as inferior or sinful? Your blood be upon your own head, for you willingly twist the character of God into your own image.

topcare said:

No you don't or else you would not need perversion

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I HAVE no perversion. I'm celibate. And, I was faithful in my marriage for well over 30 years. I'd love to know how many here that are so judgmental can make such a claim.

topcare said:

That's not even the same. One is a physical deformity (cleft lip and cleft palate) which you don't see people going around saying it's normal and the other (trans, lgbt, etc) is a mental illness that instead of trying to help people try to celebrate as normal. It is not normal when a man wants to be a women or vice versa and they should be helped but instead society chooses to treat it as a normal thing and not get them the mental help they really need.

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It is not a mental illness. I doubt you have the authority to make such a diagnosis.

Nobody claims it is normal.

It's not about "wanting" to be the opposite sex.

topcare said:

That's exactly what society wants you to think. There is no world where it's normal wanting to be the opposite gender, it is very much a mental illness and one that because of God hating society is going unchecked and celebrated. The worst part is that the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the Church at large so much that even Christians celebrate things against nature and mental illness.

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Still not a mental illness.

Ignoring the references to pedophilia because: irrelevant.

topcare said:

All I need to know is that they are doing something unnatural and that is against what God did. God created male and female, period no in-between no women in a man's body or vice versa. Now people may have that mental abnormality because of the fall but that in no wise means that we should give into them. When society participates in allowing a man to rip his parts off or a woman than that is not help. Help would be to help them understand that desire is abnormal but they can have normal thinking through help. Help is not enabling, allow bruce to pretend to be a woman is enabling

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You really need to research "intersex" because there are literal, physical cases of in-betweens, existence of people who are both and people with body parts that don't match their chromosomes.

It's not enabling. Unlike what I'm seeing in your posts, the psychiatric community actually did some research and realized that transition is the only useful help that society can offer for gender dysphoria. Attempts at the kind of help you advocate here were abject failures.

If your a female than you have committed a grave act against God, He has made male and female. Man who hate God have convinced the lot of you into perversion and put your soul on the fast track to hell. I pray for you all that you will repent of your satanic acts and remove myself from this thread

topcare said:

If your a female than you have committed a grave act against God, He has made male and female. Man who hate God have convinced the lot of you into perversion and put your soul on the fast track to hell. I pray for you all that you will repent of your satanic acts and remove myself from this thread

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Bye!
tulc(is only here for the the flounce quitting!)

topcare said:

If your a female than you have committed a grave act against God, He has made male and female. Man who hate God have convinced the lot of you into perversion and put your soul on the fast track to hell. I pray for you all that you will repent of your satanic acts and remove myself from this thread

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Hi,
You are still enormously wrong.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

topcare said:

If your a female than you have committed a grave act against God, He has made male and female. Man who hate God have convinced the lot of you into perversion and put your soul on the fast track to hell. I pray for you all that you will repent of your satanic acts and remove myself from this thread

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Clearly you were only apart of this thread to tell us how evil and wrong we are, even denying my offer for conversation. Bye!

topcare said:

That's not even the same. One is a physical deformity (cleft lip and cleft palate) which you don't see people going around saying it's normal and the other (trans, lgbt, etc) is a mental illness that instead of trying to help people try to celebrate as normal. It is not normal when a man wants to be a women or vice versa and they should be helped but instead society chooses to treat it as a normal thing and not get them the mental help they really need.

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If mental helped work for them, they wouldn't be going through the long and painful transformation necessary. Currently they must get mental therapy as well as chemical and physical treatments before it is completed.

topcare said:

If your a female than you have committed a grave act against God, He has made male and female. Man who hate God have convinced the lot of you into perversion and put your soul on the fast track to hell. I pray for you all that you will repent of your satanic acts and remove myself from this thread

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And I shall pray for you.

I have no problem with you believing as you believe, but it is another thing indeed to accuse those who disagree with your interpretation of His word of performing satanic acts. May God bring you peace and light.

rosenherman said:

If mental helped work for them, they wouldn't be going through the long and painful transformation necessary. Currently they must get mental therapy as well as chemical and physical treatments before it is completed.

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And several of the physical treatments are excruciating. Anybody who has ever experienced electrolysis knows the pain involved. Imagine having it done on your face. Add to that that it is generally necessary to repeat half of the treated follicles. I have endured just over 400 hours of it. I need another 75 - 100 hours to complete. And, some need twice what I do. I often walk out of treatment teary-eyed. If there was ANY other path to a sense of wholeness, trust me, I'd be there. This is NOT for the faint of heart.

topcare said:

If your a female than you have committed a grave act against God, He has made male and female. Man who hate God have convinced the lot of you into perversion and put your soul on the fast track to hell. I pray for you all that you will repent of your satanic acts and remove myself from this thread

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Being female is a grave act against God because God creates females?

I have not been "convinced into perversion" because this is not perversion.

It is not your place to tell me I'm going to hell.

Do yourself a favor and seek out therapy and work on yourself long and hard before you go down that route.

It's my opinion a lot of the issues are due to increasingly rigid gender roles since the Victorian era, and that we look to others for our sense of acceptance. But at the same time, there may be a biological component for some people.

Only you can decide in the end what is best for you, with the help of your counsellors, your pastor, and God.

Admin Hat...

Thread moved from Discussion and Debate

Mark
CF Admin

I have heard of males wanting to be female cos of being in the wrong body but not really of females wanting to be male.

Question, how long have you felt this way...when did it start? What were the circumstances of your birth...i.e. Were you adopted, a test tube baby, etc?

Actually a friend has told me that his niece who was an IVF baby, now wants to be a boy. I think she/he is a teen and having gender issues. He told me she was going to church, and is christian, bit not sure if she/he is still keeping faith.