Discussion Defending self and others.
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Oh he did, but don't ignore the point in the story where David DIDN'T go pray about getting stones. He knew God, he knew what was acceptable and he did what he felt, and God blessed him.
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probinson
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I don't either.
But you're really missing the entire point of the story. The point is Goliath was defying the armies of God, and David, though physically inferior in every way, slew the giant. It was not his choice of weapon nor the power of that weapon that killed Goliath.
David believed that God was with him. He didn't stack the deck against Goliath by dropping a 2 ton boulder on his head or doing something in the natural that would have ensured his victory. He went up against Goliath with inferior firepower... and won, not because of his weapon choice, but because God was with him.
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
the stone killed Goliath, it crushed the skull of goliath. The weapon worked.I don't either.
But you're really missing the entire point of the story. The point is Goliath was defying the armies of God, and David, though physically inferior in every way, slew the giant. It was not his choice of weapon nor the power of that weapon that killed Goliath.
David believed that God was with him. He didn't stack the deck against Goliath by dropping a 2 ton boulder on his head or doing something in the natural that would have ensured his victory. He went up against Goliath with inferior firepower... and won, not because of his weapon choice, but because God was with him.
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probinson
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Again, you're free to believe what you like. If you want to believe that a stone from a young boy's sling crushed the skull of a giant, that's entirely your prerogative. Personally, I believe that David confronted Goliath because he knew God was with him, and even though he was out-manned physically, God made the impossible possible. Note what David said he was coming against Goliath with (emphasis added);
1 Samuel 17:45 (NIV)
David said to the Philistine, “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.
Notice that David didn't say, "I come against you with a sling and a stone that will crush your skull!" David had faith in God, not in his weapon.David said to the Philistine, “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
the text says it...sank....into his head.Again, you're free to believe what you like. If you want to believe that a stone from a young boy's sling crushed the skull of a giant, that's entirely your prerogative. Personally, I believe that David confronted Goliath because he knew God was with him, and even though he was out-manned physically, God made the impossible possible. Note what David said he was coming against Goliath with (emphasis added);
1 Samuel 17:45 (NIV)Notice that David didn't say, "I come against you with a sling and a stone that will crush your skull!" David had faith in God, not in his weapon.
David said to the Philistine, “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.
49 And David put his hand in his bag and took out a stone and slung it and struck the Philistine on his forehead. The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell on his face to the ground.
but David's faith, caused him to use instincts, and get a weapon.
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Oh I think he would use whatever he can.
I don't either.
But you're really missing the entire point of the story. The point is Goliath was defying the armies of God, and David, though physically inferior in every way, slew the giant. It was not his choice of weapon nor the power of that weapon that killed Goliath.
David believed that God was with him. He didn't stack the deck against Goliath by dropping a 2 ton boulder on his head or doing something in the natural that would have ensured his victory. He went up against Goliath with inferior firepower... and won, not because of his weapon choice, but because God was with him.
Nope not missing your story at all. David took a weapon he was familiar with, and had with him and killed a giant. No prayer, just did what he needed. If he had a boulder, would he have used it? Why go there, he had a weapon, the weapon did what it needed to do, and God blessed him. What else, in the natural as you say, would have insured his victory in the culture he was in? Seems to me he chose what would do the job, as anyone would.
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One thing that hasn't been pointed out yet (that I've read) is the fact that they tried to fit David with their own armor and weapons, but they were too big for him to use. It illustrates that we have to use what God us, because everyone is different, with different strengths, talents, and weaknesses.
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probinson
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You're acting like it was a foregone conclusion that David slinging a stone at Goliath would ensure his victory. The Bible says differently.
Goliath laughed at David approaching him with a sling and a stone. The king and his brothers thought David was nuts for approaching Goliath with just a sling and a stone. Why do you suppose that was? Maybe because, to borrow a saying from my pastor, anyone with one eye and half sense knows that a young boy with just a sling and a stone stands no chance in the natural against a giant. But God was with him.
That really is the point of this story. Even though David stood no chance against Goliath in his own strength and power, as he went "...in the name of the Lord Almighty..." he was able to defeat the giant. David defeated the giant not because of his own ability or strength, but because God was with him.
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
but you are ignoring the simple fact, God had him use a weapon, and the weapon worked.You're acting like it was a foregone conclusion that David slinging a stone at Goliath would ensure his victory. The Bible says differently.
Goliath laughed at David approaching him with a sling and a stone. The king and his brothers thought David was nuts for approaching Goliath with just a sling and a stone. Why do you suppose that was? Maybe because, to borrow a saying from my pastor, anyone with one eye and half sense knows that a young boy with just a sling and a stone stands no chance in the natural against a giant. But God was with him.
That really is the point of this story. Even though David stood no chance against Goliath in his own strength and power, as he went "...in the name of the Lord Almighty..." he was able to defeat the giant. David defeated the giant not because of his own ability or strength, but because God was with him.
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probinson
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Actually, you'll find nowhere in scripture where it says that God told him to use that weapon, and so on that point, I would agree with Svt4Him that David was just using something that was familiar to him.
But David did not have the ability to kill Goliath with just a sling and a stone in his own power and strength. That's why Goliath laughed at him. The only reason that stone sunk into Goliath's head and killed him is because God was with David. It was then obvious to EVERYONE that God was with David when he slayed Goliath with just a sling and a stone.
The story would have been much less compelling if David had taken out an assault rifle and shot Goliath in the head. Anyone could do that. You don't need God with you to kill a giant if you've got an assault rifle. You can do it all on your own.
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
But we can presume God led him to get a weapon, and it worked, in entered his skull, plain and simple. Why is it you say that God was with Him, while you presume that the God with him did not tell him to get a weapon? So both make sense, he was used to the weapon, and God told him to use it, fine by me.Actually, you'll find nowhere in scripture where it says that God told him to use that weapon, and so on that point, I would agree with Svt4Him that David was just using something that was familiar to him.
But David did not have the ability to kill Goliath with just a sling and a stone in his own power and strength. That's why Goliath laughed at him. The only reason that stone sunk into Goliath's head and killed him is because God was with David. It was then obvious to EVERYONE that God was with David when he slayed Goliath with just a sling and a stone.
The story would have been much less compelling if David had taken out an assault rifle and shot Goliath in the head. Anyone could do that. You don't need God with you to kill a giant if you've got an assault rifle. You can do it all on your own.
Besides, David slew thousands with a sword, so all and all, the weapons were used, needed, led by God and worked.
The AR would have made killing the thousands short and sweet.
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
Red above, he did have the ability, You just said it was familiar to Him, so that means he knew it would kill.Actually, you'll find nowhere in scripture where it says that God told him to use that weapon, and so on that point, I would agree with Svt4Him that David was just using something that was familiar to him.
But David did not have the ability to kill Goliath with just a sling and a stone in his own power and strength. That's why Goliath laughed at him. The only reason that stone sunk into Goliath's head and killed him is because God was with David. It was then obvious to EVERYONE that God was with David when he slayed Goliath with just a sling and a stone.
The story would have been much less compelling if David had taken out an assault rifle and shot Goliath in the head. Anyone could do that. You don't need God with you to kill a giant if you've got an assault rifle. You can do it all on your own.
I could approach a killer with a small device, and he may laugh, but a small weapon in the hands of a skilled person, can indeed prove deadly. David probably had the stones as a boy, and was a good aim, and he knew it could enter a skull, as he probably went around aiming at dead skulls, it is really not that hard to deduce.
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probinson
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As I've said repeatedly, if you want to believe David's faith was in his weapon and that a little boy had the ability to kill a giant in his own strength, that's certainly your prerogative. But David told Goliath why he wasn't afraid, and it wasn't because he had a sling and a stone. It was because he came to him in the name of the Lord Almighty.
So let me ask you this... If what you are saying were true and David possessed the ability and skill to kill Goliath in his own natural strength with his weapon because of his mastery and impeccable aim of the sling, why would he need God?
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
As I've said repeatedly, if you want to believe David's faith was in his weapon and that a little boy had the ability to kill a giant in his own strength, that's certainly your prerogative. But David told Goliath why he wasn't afraid, and it wasn't because he had a sling and a stone. It was because he came to him in the name of the Lord Almighty.
So let me ask you this... If what you are saying were true and David possessed the ability and skill to kill Goliath in his own natural strength with his weapon because of his mastery and impeccable aim of the sling, why would he need God?
yes, and in the name of the Almighty, he knew he had the weapon of mass destruction!
(joke). Paul had the revelation of grace, he had the weapon from God, but he needed God too. Try to see that we are one with God, and the tangible often represents the spiritual.besides, you are drifting, the point is, he used a weapon, a tangible item, and he used a sword, and he killed thousands. The old expression, praise the Lord, and pass the ammo works!
I thought this thread is about defending others, and self, with a weapon, not a thread about David's reasons, or whatever.
Did David use weapons?
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
Probably as a boy, the sack, which he would spin around, gaining momentum was used to crush the dead cattle skulls upon release of the stone by letting go of one end of the sack, or it was a slingshot type of device. David was playing, so he learned early what a skull can endure, or not endure.
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
this is the post where the diversion set in, from the tangible, to the relationship aspect, but the tangible stands, we do not need to go into the relationship end of it, lets stick to the facts.As I've said repeatedly, if you want to believe David's faith was in his weapon and that a little boy had the ability to kill a giant in his own strength, that's certainly your prerogative. But David told Goliath why he wasn't afraid, and it wasn't because he had a sling and a stone. It was because he came to him in the name of the Lord Almighty.
So let me ask you this... If what you are saying were true and David possessed the ability and skill to kill Goliath in his own natural strength with his weapon because of his mastery and impeccable aim of the sling, why would he need God?
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