Our Jewish Christian friends were living as Gentiles in Antioch.

Lulav · Jun 8, 2015

Frogster said:
please, one can be saved out of one bondage, one stoicheion, and then return again to another one, a different one but still be returning again to another bondage. How am I wrong? You're acting like people can't redo a certain action. Why?

You quoted my post but apparently didn't read it or comprehend it, if you point out the parts you had trouble with I will helpfully restate them for you.

Lulav said: ↑
Please stop using the transliterated word, you really don't understand it at all, not to mention that your reasoning shown by your example is totally wrong.

You can't return to something that you never were at in the first place.

Here is the accepted definition:To go or come back, as to an earlier condition or place

By your way of understanding when G-d says:

Return to me, and I will return to you," says the L-RD Almighty
Therefore tell the people: This is what the L-RD Almighty says: 'Return to me,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'and I will return to you,' says the L-RD Almighty.
Return to Me, for I have redeemed you
"Even now," declares the L-RD, "return to me with all your
heart,

These quotes are from four different prophets, now do you surmiss that when G-d says to return to me, He means to any other god? I don't think so.

Stop trying to make G-d out to be a liar and to make out his Holy commandments as common as idolatrous practices.

Lulav · Jun 8, 2015

Here's a little lesson on the Greek word epistrephete you keep posting but apparently don't understand it's usage.

And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you./

Your peace doesn't return to someone else.

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

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This spirit says it will return to the place it had left, the man, not to another man.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

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When this happened they were told if they were not in their house but in the field they were not to go back to their own home to get clothes.

While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master. 50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole. 51 And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden. 52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. 53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. 54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. 55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat. 56 And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

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This is a very good example of this word epistrephete, The woman died, Jesus touched her and her spirit came back into her (returned) and she was alive. Her spirit did not go into someone else, or somewhere else, but only into the place from where it had left.

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Lulav · Jun 8, 2015

Frogster said:
a person can return again, to a stoicheion, even though it is a different stoicheion's religion the second time around.

Do you realize you are saying that G-d commandments and statues are equal to all others idolatrous ones? Are you saying his Torah is 'weak', sick, poor?

listed · Jun 9, 2015

Open Heart said:
GENTILES wanting to circumcise goes against Acts 15. He is not addressing Jews. Remember that Antioch is a mostly Gentile church.

Where does Acts 15 say the Gentiles were wanting to circumcise?

Open Heart · Jun 9, 2015

listed said:
Where does Acts 15 say the Gentiles were wanting to circumcise?

I didn't word it that way. Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that Acts 15 said that Gentiles were wanting to circumcise. I said that Gentiles wanting to circumcise (without becoming Jews of course) goes against Acts 15. Acts 15 is very clear that Gentiles are not to be Judaized.

If a Gentile wishes to take upon themselves the 613 of the covenant, that is what conversion to Judaism is all about. The Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations offers such a conversion.

Steeno7 · Jun 9, 2015

Open Heart said:
I didn't word it that way. Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that Acts 15 said that Gentiles were wanting to circumcise. I said that Gentiles wanting to circumcise (without becoming Jews of course) goes against Acts 15. Acts 15 is very clear that Gentiles are not to be Judaized.

If a Gentile wishes to take upon themselves the 613 of the covenant, that is what conversion to Judaism is all about. The Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations offers such a conversion.

The Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations offers conversion to Judaism?

Open Heart · Jun 9, 2015

Steeno7 said:
The Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations offers conversion to Judaism?

Yes. You may read about it here: http://ourrabbis.org/main/articles/on-conversion-mainmenu-32

Steeno7 · Jun 9, 2015

Open Heart said:
Yes. You may read about it here: http://ourrabbis.org/main/articles/on-conversion-mainmenu-32

That messianics would offer conversion to the religion of Judaism really confirms all of our concerns and tells Christians everything we need to know.

Open Heart · Jun 9, 2015

Steeno7 said:
That messianics would offer conversion to the religion of Judaism really confirms all of our concerns and tells Christians everything we need to know.

Let me explain. Each denomination of Judaism offers conversion, but to their denomination of Judaism. So if you undergo conversion with the orthodox, you get an orthodox conversion. If you undergo conversion with the Reform you get a reform conversion. And if you undergo conversion with the Messianics, you get a Messianic conversion. Do you see what I am saying? It's Judaism, but it's Messianic Judaism. Read the link I gave you.

Steeno7 · Jun 9, 2015

Open Heart said:
Let me explain. Each denomination of Judaism offers conversion, but to their denomination of Judaism. So if you undergo conversion with the orthodox, you get an orthodox conversion. If you undergo conversion with the Reform you get a reform conversion. And if you undergo conversion with the Messianics, you get a Messianic conversion. Do you see what I am saying? It's Judaism, but it's Messianic Judaism. Read the link I gave you.

Christianity is not the religion of Judaism.

Open Heart · Jun 9, 2015

Steeno7 said:
Christianity is not the religion of Judaism.

No, it is not. However, Messianic Judaism is a hybrid. MJ is a Judaism that includes belief in Yeshua and his atonement, the Trinity, the New Testament, you know, the basic fundamentals of Christianity.

"Messianic Judaism is a Judaism and not a cosmetically altered "Jewish style" version of what is extant in the wider Christian community" http://www.hashivenu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=54#core1

Steeno7 · Jun 9, 2015

Open Heart said:
No, it is not. However, Messianic Judaism is a hybrid. MJ is a Judaism that includes belief in Yeshua and his atonement, the Trinity, the New Testament, you know, the basic fundamentals of Christianity.

When you try to mix what cannot be mixed you only end up with a mess. Advocating for the conversion of folks to the religion of Judaism on a Christian forum is truly messed up.

Lulav · Jun 9, 2015

Steeno7 said:
When you try to mix what cannot be mixed you only end up with a mess. Advocating for the conversion of folks to the religion of Judaism on a Christian forum is truly messed up.

And what have you got against Judaism?

Steeno7 · Jun 9, 2015

Lulav said:
And what have you got against Judaism?

Nothing. Just don't get it mixed up with Christianity.

Lulav · Jun 9, 2015

Steeno7 said:
Nothing. Just don't get it mixed up with Christianity.

If You mean by believing in the Jewish Messiah, reading the writings from Jewish men, taking on Jewish rituals like immersion/baptism etc?

Where would you be without all these?

Steeno7 · Jun 9, 2015

Lulav said:
If You mean by believing in the Jewish Messiah, reading the writings from Jewish men, taking on Jewish rituals like immersion/baptism etc?

Where would you be without all these?

I mean not confusing and conflating the religion of Judaism with Christianity, because Christianity is not the religion of Judaism.

Frogster · Jun 9, 2015

Open Heart said:
GENTILES wanting to circumcise goes against Acts 15. He is not addressing Jews. Remember that Antioch is a mostly Gentile church.

what are you saying? of course gentiles could be circumcised to be Jewish! Of course he is not addressing Jews in that portion, they already were circumcised! Galatia is not about Antioch, chapter 2 was Paul telling what happened in Antioch, it was not about Galatia in chapter 2! my oh my....

Frogster · Jun 9, 2015

Lulav said:
You quoted my post but apparently didn't read it or comprehend it, if you point out the parts you had trouble with I will helpfully restate them for you.

Lulav said: ↑
Please stop using the transliterated word, you really don't understand it at all, not to mention that your reasoning shown by your example is totally wrong.

You can't return to something that you never were at in the first place.

Here is the accepted definition:To go or come back, as to an earlier condition or place

By your way of understanding when G-d says:

Return to me, and I will return to you," says the L-RD Almighty

Therefore tell the people: This is what the L-RD Almighty says: 'Return to me,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'and I will return to you,' says the L-RD Almighty.

Return to Me, for I have redeemed you

"Even now," declares the L-RD, "return to me with all your
heart,

These quotes are from four different prophets, now do you surmiss that when G-d says to return to me, He means to any other god? I don't think so.

Stop trying to make G-d out to be a liar and to make out his Holy commandments as common as idolatrous practices.

can someone be in a group of some sorts that is in bondage,then get saved, then return to another group of bondage...again?

yes or no please?

Frogster · Jun 9, 2015

Lulav said:
Do you realize you are saying that G-d commandments and statues are equal to all others idolatrous ones? Are you saying his Torah is 'weak', sick, poor?

argue with God's chosen instrument Acts 9:15!

Gal 4:3 In the same way we (Jews mine) also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

he calls law and Judaism bondage about 5 times in Galatians! Wanna see?

Frogster · Jun 9, 2015

Gal 2:4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—

4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

4:7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves (judaism mine) you want to be once more?

4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children

5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

That is that, it was slavery! case closed!

Our Jewish Christian friends were living as Gentiles in Antioch.

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