Is the gift of being able to supernautrally speak in tounges , as outlined in acts active today ?

rturner76 said:

Most of the time when I see people so called speaking in tongues it's just some gibberish that they are making u on the spot and nobody can understand it. People don't speak in other languages where everybody can understand it in their own language any more. I'd like to see an example of that. I've never heard of it happening. I have seen people use tongues to take advantage of the faithful and call themselves prophets and such because they can do it.

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Even though you are working from within a faulty theological worldview, as Paul tells us in 1Cor 14:1 "Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit" then I will agree that no-one who can pray in the Spirit (tongues) will do so in a known human language. Tongues are not used to by the Spirit to speak to man but are always directed to the Father. When the Holy Spirit speaks to man he will always do this through prophecy which is always given in the local language.

Alithis said:

lol dont be twisty and turny on me
yes i get the point both ways it is a sign when the lord causes it to be a sign .. it can be very off putting when it is used in the flesh .. yeh?

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Okay, but remember, you were the one who pointed to that Scripture so Paul's words mean what he wanted them to mean and not as Humpty Dumpty declared "words mean what I want them to mean" or similar.

Alithis said:

iv heard of it happening

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Yes, I've heard much the same over the years but I tend to treat these things very carefully particularly as we have no Scriptural evidence for such practices, where the Scriptures tend to discount many of these supposed occurrences. From what I have seen over the years, I think that many of these "occurrences" are more the result of a particular event being misunderstood or maybe we can all (including me) be guility of passing on information that we simply want to be true?

Biblicist said:

Yes, I've heard much the same over the years but I tend to treat these things very carefully particularly as we have no Scriptural evidence for such practices, where the Scriptures tend to discount many of these supposed occurrences. From what I have seen over the years, I think that many of these "occurrences" are more the result of a particular event being misunderstood or maybe we can all (including me) be guilty of passing on information that we simply want to be true?

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yeah for sure its possible ..but so is the event .. i refer to the book in the 70's "the indonesian revival "cant recall its proper title .. i saw an interview with the (much older guy) and he testified and maintained it happened .. the same as he said the village saw the church building on fire and came running with water to throw on but found it was not physical fire ( i have no problem believing that because it happened in the book of acts and i have seen such a thing with my own eyes in a meeting in nelson NZ a few years back, tongues of fire flickering up and down a 9 year old boy from his feet to his head .) and a group of children told to take the gospel to a remote village walked across a flooding river ..like they were walking across a knee deep puddle .. when some tried to follow them across he was swept into the water over his head and had to be rescued .
any way the point being ,- i have no reason to disbelieve his testimony .

also we are not unware of the who & why ..in regard to the op .

Alithis said:

yeah for sure its possible ..but so is the event .. i refer to the book in the 70's "the indonesian revival "cant recall its proper title .. i saw an interview with the (much older guy) and he testified and maintained it happened .. the same as he said the village saw the church building on fire and came running with water to throw on but found it was not physical fire ( i have no problem believing that because it happened in the book of acts and i have seen such a thing with my own eyes in a meeting in nelson NZ a few years back, tongues of fire flickering up and down a 9 year old boy from his feet to his head .) and a group of children told to take the gospel to a remote village walked across a flooding river ..like they were walking across a knee deep puddle .. when some tried to follow them across he was swept into the water over his head and had to be rescued .
any way the point being ,- i have no reason to disbelieve his testimony .

also we are not unware of the who & why ..in regard to the op .

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Your post is probably well timed as I hope that I am not being seen as suggesting that most of the reports that we see regarding the powerful outworking of the Holy Spirit worldwide are questionable – in fact far from it (unless of course the source is someone like Todd Bentley). My point was fairly specific in that it related more to the improbability of tongues being used as a self contained evangelistic message to an unreached people group, which is the point being raised by the, yes, rather well known poster!

Gordon Fee wrote about the gift of tongues as a credited Christian academic. I plan to study this with the college where he is professor emeritus. Regent College Vancouver. The course is called "The Holy Spirit in the Pauline Letters".

In Sydney I heard it happened that as some Jews were walking by a church in East Sydney they heard people speaking Hebrew who never learned it.

GoldenKingGaze said:

Gordon Fee wrote about the gift of tongues as a credited Christian academic. I plan to study this with the college where he is professor emeritus. Regent College Vancouver. The course is called "The Holy Spirit in the Pauline Letters".

In Sydney I heard it happened that as some Jews were walking by a church in East Sydney they heard people speaking Hebrew who never learned it.

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Gordon Fee was the first scholar that I had ever met face to face and his commentary on First Corinthians in 1988 was undoubtedly the best commentary on First Corinthians up until that time. Even though there have been a number of indepth works on First Corinthians since the release of his book, particularly with the monumental work by Anthony C. Thiselton on First Corinthians in 2001 along with his subsequent material in 2005 and 2013, Fee’s material still has an important place to play as he wrote as an exegetical scholar and not as a theologian, which means that he will provide material that many theologians tend to miss.

As for you second point regarding what some Jews were supposed to have heard, I think that these things are best left as curiousities and nothing more.

Why would you dimiss it as a 'curiosity'?

I was part of a team that were ministering in the garbage dumps outside Mexico City. One of our team members, a lady about 55 years old, who knew no Spanish was praying with a group that knew no English.

She testified that since there was no interpreter she would just pray in the spirit.

I saw them, eyes closed tears running down their faces as she prayed. Afterwards our interpreter testified and the group confirmed as she prayed they each heard her words in Spanish, in fact it was the highest level of the language they had ever heard.

That is not a curiosity my friend, that is a gift in manifestation. Four of the group gave their hearts to Jesus as a result.

Alithis said:

there are many variations of the use of the gift of tongues .. one speaks "mysteries " in the spirit..
a mystery is something that we find we cannot fully comprehend ..that is what makes it a mystery .
faith does not require us to understand mysteries .faith requires only that we TRUST GOD .
Faith does not lean on our own understanding
if you approach this topic to try and grasp it or oppose it from your own understanding them you will never ever do so because it can only be grasped by faith
Our carnal mind cannot comprehend the things of the Spirit of God

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Amen and AMEN!!!

Simply Put said:

Why would you dimiss it as a 'curiosity'?

I was part of a team that were ministering in the garbage dumps outside Mexico City. One of our team members, a lady about 55 years old, who knew no Spanish was praying with a group that knew no English.

She testified that since there was no interpreter she would just pray in the spirit.

I saw them, eyes closed tears running down their faces as she prayed. Afterwards our interpreter testified and the group confirmed as she prayed they each heard her words in Spanish, in fact it was the highest level of the language they had ever heard.

That is not a curiosity my friend, that is a gift in manifestation. Four of the group gave their hearts to Jesus as a result.

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It seems that my use of "couriosity" and "nothing more" was probably not wise as it could imply something that is false or untrue. If I had of said, "As such testimonies can be hard to prove and that the event being referred to can often be misunderstood by those who are adjacent to the event, then at best we should not refer to them as being some form of empiracle evidence for tongues being presented in a known human language".

SP, as for the amazing event that you referrred to, I can certainly agree that such a thing could happen and undoubtedly does on the odd occassion occur. Could this particular occurrence of tongues be equated to the Day of Pentecost where the Spirit allowed others to here what he was saying to the Father, well yes, this is certainly possible but it does appear that those who were being prayed for/with already had an understanding of the Gospel so from what I am reading, I would not equate it as being an Evangelistic message, which has its parallel with the Day of Pentecost when the 120 were not speaking to the crowd but were speaking words of praise to the Father which meant that it could not be construed as being an evangelistic message.

So my primary point is that we have no Scriptural evidence for tongues being used to evangelise any individual or people group which renders the question that was posed by the OP as being essentially moot.

pauluk333 said:

Yes I understand that, but why do missionaries who want to go to china (and claim to speak in glossolalia ) have to go and learn Chinese, why don't they have the ability to supernaturally speak in Chinese, as they did in acts?

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As the Scriptures have not presented a single example of where the Holy Spirit has ever spoken an evangelistic message to an unreached people group, or for that matter, where he has ever directed a word of tongues to an individual, then as your question is obviously built on a wrong foundation, where you obviously fail to understand how the Holy Spirit operates through us, then your question really does not require an answer. Why should we bother to try and do something that the Scriptures have never given an example of?

pauluk333 said:

First I am honestly honestly not trolling. I really want to know if the gift of being able to supernautrally speak in tongues, as outline in acts is active today. What I mean is, can someone who claims to have the gift of tongues, go to china and speak Chinesse without learning it before as outlined in the book of acts ?

Also has anyone heard of this happening before, other than what is stated in the bible ?

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hmm...
1. Go to china and speaking chinesse without learning is a miracle / GOD's grace.
2. if i say: yadayadayada... Listener A may listen in Language A, Listener B may listen in Language B, this is another kind of miracles. Another GOD's grace / miracles.

speaking in tongues... Usually pentecostal use that word to refer to prayer language which sounds like encrypted messages.

rturner76 said:

Most of the time when I see people so called speaking in tongues it's just some gibberish that they are making u on the spot and nobody can understand it. People don't speak in other languages where everybody can understand it in their own language any more. I'd like to see an example of that. I've never heard of it happening. I have seen people use tongues to take advantage of the faithful and call themselves prophets and such because they can do it.

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On the way home on the bus I hear Indian people talking in Hindi. It all sounds like gibberish end to me too, but they are speaking a real language.

pauluk333 said:

Yes I understand that, but why do missionaries who want to go to china (and claim to speak in glossolalia ) have to go and learn Chinese, why don't they have the ability to supernaturally speak in Chinese, as they did in acts?

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This is not then. Let me say up front that I am not a cessationist, I am a charismatic. I do believe--and have seen and experienced--the supernatural working of the spiritual gifts spoken of in the New Testament. However, those gifts operate to fulfill the purposes of the Lord when necessary and as intended by Him. And He is not a genie in a bottle to do our wishes, nor does He do tricks to impress the natives.

There are at least two distinct kinds of "tongues" spoken of in scripture. One use of the word denotes universal human understanding of the gospel being preached. The other is the message of the Lord to the congregation through one member that must be interpreted by another member because nobody understands it except as the Lord gives the specifically selected interpreter that understanding.

There may be a third (but it may also be one of the first two) that was spoken by Cornelius and by the Samaritans evangelized by Philip. I'm coming to the theory that in those cases, the Holy Spirit deliberately duplicated the phenomenon Peter and John had experienced in order to prove beyond doubt that He was moving beyond the Jews and out into the world. Clearly, Peter and John would not have believed it except by that indisputable proof of their own experience being duplicated by those non-Jews. We don't need such proof today because we have fully accepted that the gospel is for people of all nations.

The Body of Christ has members gifted to do His work as a Body. There are people who are gifted in languages--they learn them quickly and easily. My daughter became conversational in Mandaran and Japanese in a matter of months. (It's eerie and awesome to see a spiritual gift in operation.)

Alithis said:

iv heard of it happening

and the many varied uses of tongues in the Spirit is not meant for the carnal mind to understand .

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That's why prophecy is the more powerful gift to use in public.

rturner76 said:

Most of the time when I see people so called speaking in tongues it's just some gibberish that they are making u on the spot and nobody can understand it. People don't speak in other languages where everybody can understand it in their own language any more. I'd like to see an example of that. I've never heard of it happening. I have seen people use tongues to take advantage of the faithful and call themselves prophets and such because they can do it.

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You do realize, don't you, that glossolalia is not refuted by the Catholic Church and that there are Catholics who practice it, don't you?

Oscarr said:

That's why prophecy is the more powerful gift to use in public.

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hey there Oscar great to see you roaming the new layout .

yes in the public setting prophecy (and its also many varied forms )is more beneficial to others for sure .

so im so very sure im not alone in this but here a scenario .. im in a prayer meeting . ie the purpose to agree together in prayer .we like to worship and wait and just see what the lord leads us to pray about in this particular meeting .we like to just wait on him to see what our lord requires of us in prayer s to speak .

so sometimes im praying quietly in tongues ..or waiting quietly or praising and worshiping .. which ever , and the lord's anointing increases and i find myself praying quiet fervently .. but in tongues .
but here's the thing ,-sometimes quite strongly i get a "knowing" or shall we call it a "comprehension" (an interpretation) of what it is that is being prayed about in the spiritual tongue ..
and some times others begin praying in english. and they begin praying on that same line .. thats really wonderful because that's confirmation that the interpretation i was getting is correct) but if that doesn't happen often i will break into english and continue praying in english ..for one important reason.. so the others in the room can say AMEN. because they cant say amen if they do not know what s being prayed .. in truth i think it would be unwise to say amen if we don't know what is being prayed .

but i feel paul was really not trying to make some set patterned rule out of it .
but we do know that its only those who have bee baptised in the holy Spirit and continue in the gifts .. that really understand what im talking about -the rest theorise

Alithis said:

hey there Oscar great to see you roaming the new layout .

yes in the public setting prophecy (and its also many varied forms )is more beneficial to others for sure .

so im so very sure im not alone in this but here a scenario .. im in a prayer meeting . ie the purpose to agree together in prayer .we like to worship and wait and just see what the lord leads us to pray about in this particular meeting .we like to just wait on him to see what our lord requires of us in prayer s to speak .

so sometimes im praying quietly in tongues ..or waiting quietly or praising and worshiping .. which ever , and the lord's anointing increases and i find myself praying quiet fervently .. but in tongues .
but here's the thing ,-sometimes quite strongly i get a "knowing" or shall we call it a "comprehension" (an interpretation) of what it is that is being prayed about in the spiritual tongue ..
and some times others begin praying in english. and they begin praying on that same line .. thats really wonderful because that's confirmation that the interpretation i was getting is correct) but if that doesn't happen often i will break into english and continue praying in english ..for one important reason.. so the others in the room can say AMEN. because they cant say amen if they do not know what s being prayed .. in truth i think it would be unwise to say amen if we don't know what is being prayed .

but i feel paul was really not trying to make some set patterned rule out of it .
but we do know that its only those who have bee baptised in the holy Spirit and continue in the gifts .. that really understand what im talking about -the rest theorise

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The ability to pray in tongues is one of those tools of the Holy Spirit that takes faith and trust to use, because we don't know what we are saying when we are speaking it. Praying in tongues is the ultimate in trust because we have to do something that is completely illogical in order to communicate with God that way. It means that we can't examine it rationally or scientifically because it does not exist in that world. It exists in the realm of faith and trust, believing exclusively in what is written in 1 Corinthians 14. If you examine most of what God has done in the Old Testament, you will see that God has acted illogically in many areas. Take Gideon for instance: How logical is it for the whole Midianite army, made up of hundreds of thousands of soldiers to be defeated by 300 Israelites? What about David? He got a prophecy that he was going to be king of Israel before Saul had even sinned, and how logical is it to come up against
Goliath, who represented the state of the art in the warfare of the time, with just a slingshot and stones? How logical is it for a guy to hold out a stick over a sea and see it part in two, causing two million people to cross on dry land? Dry land! So the water banked up on both sides leaving dry land? You would think that there would be at least a few puddles there! But no, it was dry land. How logical is that? What about Balaam's donkey having the power of speech without the proper vocal cords? Logical? No way.

So if you read many of the accounts in the Old Testament, you will see that things happened in very illogical ways. What about the miracles of Jesus? Is it logical for a human being to walk on water? What about using a mixture of dirt and spit healing blindness?

So, how can we adopt a different rule when it comes to using the gift of tongues. If we depend on human logical to explain the things of God, then we are doing it according to the flesh and not the Spirit. The Scripture says that those who are in the flesh cannot please God. So for a fellow to criticise the gift of tongues, using his fleshly logical mind and calling it gibberish, cannot please God. He is saying that God has to do things according to his own fleshly logical mind to be genuine. If he thinks that way, then he has to discount most of the Old Testament events and much of what happened in the New Testament as well.

pauluk333 said:

I will, but why cant missionaries who claim to speak tounges do that today ?

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Because it was never the purpose of the gift of tongues to be used in evangelism. It is primarily a prayer and praise language. This is how it happened on the Day of Pentecost. But having said that, God can do what He likes, and if He thinks it's important to put English words in a foreign mouth in order to win souls for Christ, then He will do it without our permission. After all, He is God, and He doesn't need our approval to do things out of the ordinary if He chooses. But the ability is not automatic and He won't do that if a person has the ability to learn the language before he goes to that country. In the old Pentecostal days, quite a few people went to China thinking that because they spoke in tongues they could speak the Chinese language without learning it. All of those people returned home shamed and disappointed because God did not do it for them. And why should He, just because those people were too lazy to go through the process of learning the language? There is a difference between faith and presumption. Faith is confidence and trust in what God has actually promised. Presumption is blind faith in what WE want to take place, hoping that God will come to the party. Most times God will say a definite "NO!" and "get off your acre, find out what My will is for you, and then base your trust in what I have said to you, not what you think I should do for you."