Job's friends get undeserved condemnation.

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Job's best friend said this of Job, and who knows you better than your best friend?

Eliphaz said, Job 22:9 Thou hast sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless have been broken.

Firstly, Elihu was not Job's best friend.

Secondly, Job never did any such thing that Elihu accused Job of doing. Elihu falsely accused Job. He blatantly lied.

Thank you kindly.
 
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katerinah1947

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First, Elihu was sent by God to represent God at Job's request. Job told God that he would not get a fair trial at God's hand, because God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.

It seems that no one can get past this first chapter. There is more than the first and last chapter to this book. There are 42 chapters. No one is denying what is said about Job after the first test. Job made it past the first test. Adam didn't make it past his first test. Adam was given only one requirement, and that was to not eat of the tree of Knowledge. Job was given two tests that required him to bless God. After the first test he blessed God. Job passed. After the second test Job did not bless God. Job failed.

Job didn't need salvation in the beginning no more than Adam did. The upright don't need salvation, only the unjust. I presented verses in Ezekiel that tell you when a righteous man sins, all his righteousness is forgotten, and he is on his way to the pit. This is the picture of Job that is given to us in all those other chapters. It is ironic that Job's sin was the same as Satan's. In the beginning Satan was perfect. In the beginning Job was perfect. Satan exalted himself above God. Job exalted himself above God. The only difference between Job and Satan was that Job repented.

Some of the verses in the rest of those chapters in Job that explain this are--


Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

Job 32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

Job 35:2 Think this to be right, that you said, My righteousness is more than God's?

Job 40:8 Will you also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that you may be righteous?

Why ignore what God said to Job?
Hi,
Elihu is sent by God seems unsubtantiatable. Consider this commentary by someone else. I will paste this here. It is not my own work.


Elihu still accuses Job of sin
Despite claiming that he won't repeat the friends' arguments (Job 32:14), Elihu persists in accusing Job of wrongdoing:

Would that Job were tried to the limit
For answers which befit sinful men.

He adds to his sin;
He increases his transgression among us;
He multiplies his statements against God.—Job 34:36-37 (NJPS)


His primary argument, that God uses pain and suffering to discipline the righteous has already been broached by Eliphaz in chapter 5.

Elihu is wrong about God
Further, Elihu says that God does not need to respond to Job's case (or that He can do so in His own time depending on the translation of Job 35:12-16). He rhetorical asks what effect sin and righteousness have on God:

If you sin, what do you do to Him?
If your transgressions are many,
How do you affect Him?

If you are righteous,
What do you give Him;
What does He receive from your hand?—Job 35:6-7 (NJPS)


The implied answer to each is a variation on "nothing". In what must be the most devastating courtroom tactic every employed, God blows into the scene (literally) and asks "Who is this who darkens counsel, speaking without knowledge?" (Job 38:2) While the text does say that God responds to Job, He also is undercutting Elihu's argument.

Why doesn't God rebuke Elihu?
Perhaps the most powerful argument for Elihu is God's silence about his argument. The other three friends are rebuked and required to make sacrifice in the epilogue. Job himself is commended for all that he had done and receives a double blessing. But Elihu disappears from the story. If God were displeased with Elihu, why didn't He include him in the rebuke?

On the other hand, why didn't God praise Elihu? The book of Job purposely leaves his status ambiguous: he could be correct in his argument or he could be incorrect. But a close reading of Elihu's words (as I show above) reveals that he simply amplifies the other (incorrect) theodicies or distances God from caring about humanity. Further, he speaks out of turn and has no standing before God. Like a man who disrupts the order of the court, he is quickly and quietly dismissed. Elihu is not even worthy of being answered.

Now, you claim that Elihu is sent by God. I do not claim the above that is written by someone else is my own work. What I did see, is in fact God did cut off Elihu's conversation.
To say that Elihu is sent by God, is important if it is true.
To say that Satan is what you have said of him is important if true.
Some of what you say frightens me. Some does not. What does not frighten me, is your statement that Job is not perfect. However that is not what God said of him. However why bring up the central theme of mankind with God, Our Imperfections compared to God?
You are just restating the need for Jesus. Do you realize that?
~One day, I am before Jesus. I do not know He is there. I say some things. The Holy Spirit lets me know what Jesus is feeling. Jesus felt wonderful in his own stomach, on the left side for what I had told Him, just then. It turns out He knew for three and a half years this thing that I knew, but kept from Him. It was His pleasure in his stomach that told me, he always knew. Hopefully that was the last sin, then, that I had tried to keep from God.~
What I had told Jesus then is okay for me to tell the world. Yet to look at my error with God, and to look at any errors with Job, misses the point of why God had blessed him so well before using him, and why God treated him so well after using him, despite him, Job, being human before God.
So, to say that maybe Job was not perfect in testing, and you have said that, is important if it is true, but it is misleading to concentrate on it, if it teaches us nothing about God. With that in mind, are you saying that Lots of things happen Simultaneously when God gets involved?
Is that your central point here, or is it just to show us, that the most perfect man of the day, is precisely imperfect just like the rest of us?
If it is the last part, then know this from my life as I have orders never to teach, routinely God shows me the differences between He and I. Routinely words and ideas like Jesus was pefect the rest of us never were are in my mind and in my heart, and in my being in whatever totality I can know.
Whenever I confuse God with me, God intervenes and lets me know that I am not Him. ~Close associations with God, while working for Him, result always in me mistaking the goodness at present in me, for what I really am. I am not the goodness. And as soon as I am pulled back long enough, I realize that, but it hurts because God pulls back a little to expose me each time. The separation, I think is what hurts.~
You have not shown adequately that Elihu is sent by God. And for you, to make sure to me, I will explain my use of the word LOVE, when I sign off. It is a reminder, and it is what I do. I try to remember how ~God loves.~. ~Once I could do that. One day I knew how that was done. Then like normal for me back then in 2008, I passed it on to someone else. It seems God can gift someone, with loving like He loves. I now have the memory of that. I do not have that anymore. I have the memory of that. I sign off that way, to tell me to love you the way God loves you, when I write.~
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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thankfulttt

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Hi,
Elihu is sent by God seems unsubtantiatable. Consider this commentary by someone else. I will paste this here. It is not my own work.


Elihu still accuses Job of sin
Despite claiming that he won't repeat the friends' arguments (Job 32:14), Elihu persists in accusing Job of wrongdoing:

Would that Job were tried to the limit
For answers which befit sinful men.

He adds to his sin;
He increases his transgression among us;
He multiplies his statements against God.—Job 34:36-37 (NJPS)


His primary argument, that God uses pain and suffering to discipline the righteous has already been broached by Eliphaz in chapter 5.

...Mary., .... .

Mary sorry I did not get back to you I missed your post.

Elihu did not repeat the three friends argument. The three friends were charging Job with sinning against man, while Elihu charged Job with sinning against God. The three friends said Job had to be more self-righteous, while Elihu was telling Job to put off his own righteousness and put on God's.
 
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thankfulttt

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Hi,
Elihu is sent by God seems unsubtantiatable. Consider this commentary by someone else. I will paste this here. It is not my own work.


Elihu is wrong about God
Further, Elihu says that God does not need to respond to Job's case (or that He can do so in His own time depending on the translation of Job 35:12-16). He rhetorical asks what effect sin and righteousness have on God:

If you sin, what do you do to Him?
If your transgressions are many,
How do you affect Him?

If you are righteous,
What do you give Him;
What does He receive from your hand?—Job 35:6-7 (NJPS)

The implied answer to each is a variation on "nothing". In what must be the most devastating courtroom tactic every employed, God blows into the scene (literally) and asks "Who is this who darkens counsel, speaking without knowledge?" (Job 38:2) While the text does say that God responds to Job, He also is undercutting Elihu's argument.


LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Don't know who this fellow is or what he means when he says the implied answer to each is a variation on "nothing".

Elihu starts out this chapter by making a statement that God repeats later, and that is, "Think this to be right, that you said your righteousness is more than God's?" And then Elihu repeats what Job has said, "For you said, What advantage will it be unto (God)? And what profit shall I have, If I be cleansed from my sin?" And then Elihu answers Job's statement by saying, your sin doesn't hurt God(You can't hurt God). And your righteousness does not give anything to God.

Job's sin hurts man, and his righteousness helps man, but it adds nothing to God.

I don't know how the fellow that wrote this jumps from chapter 35 to chapter 38 and then makes it sound contiguous. God is not referring to Elihu in chapter 38. Notice in the last verse that Elihu tells Job that he speaks without knowledge, and that is exactly what God tells him in chapter 38. God parrots what Elihu has said showing a consistency between the two, which supports Elihu's statement that he is in the place of God. (Reread post 39)
 
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thankfulttt

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Why doesn't God rebuke Elihu?


Now, you claim that Elihu is sent by God. I do not claim the above that is written by someone else is my own work. What I did see, is in fact God did cut off Elihu's conversation.
To say that Elihu is sent by God, is important if it is true.
To say that Satan is what you have said of him is important if true.
Some of what you say frightens me. Some does not. What does not frighten me, is your statement that Job is not perfect. However that is not what God said of him. However why bring up the central theme of mankind with God, Our Imperfections compared to God?
You are just restating the need for Jesus. Do you realize that?
~One day, I am before Jesus. I do not know He is there. I say some things. The Holy Spirit lets me know what Jesus is feeling. Jesus felt wonderful in his own stomach, on the left side for what I had told Him, just then. It turns out He knew for three and a half years this thing that I knew, but kept from Him. It was His pleasure in his stomach that told me, he always knew. Hopefully that was the last sin, then, that I had tried to keep from God.~
What I had told Jesus then is okay for me to tell the world. Yet to look at my error with God, and to look at any errors with Job, misses the point of why God had blessed him so well before using him, and why God treated him so well after using him, despite him, Job, being human before God.
So, to say that maybe Job was not perfect in testing, and you have said that, is important if it is true, but it is misleading to concentrate on it, if it teaches us nothing about God. With that in mind, are you saying that Lots of things happen Simultaneously when God gets involved?
Is that your central point here, or is it just to show us, that the most perfect man of the day, is precisely imperfect just like the rest of us?
If it is the last part, then know this from my life as I have orders never to teach, routinely God shows me the differences between He and I. Routinely words and ideas like Jesus was pefect the rest of us never were are in my mind and in my heart, and in my being in whatever totality I can know.
Whenever I confuse God with me, God intervenes and lets me know that I am not Him. ~Close associations with God, while working for Him, result always in me mistaking the goodness at present in me, for what I really am. I am not the goodness. And as soon as I am pulled back long enough, I realize that, but it hurts because God pulls back a little to expose me each time. The separation, I think is what hurts.~
You have not shown adequately that Elihu is sent by God. And for you, to make sure to me, I will explain my use of the word LOVE, when I sign off. It is a reminder, and it is what I do. I try to remember how ~God loves.~. ~Once I could do that. One day I knew how that was done. Then like normal for me back then in 2008, I passed it on to someone else. It seems God can gift someone, with loving like He loves. I now have the memory of that. I do not have that anymore. I have the memory of that. I sign off that way, to tell me to love you the way God loves you, when I write.~
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

God sent Elihu in place of himself, at Job's bequest. God had no reason to speak of Elihu, it was self evident to Job because Elihu had stated that he was there at Job's request, in the place of God. Job requested him, God sent him. God didn't have to tell Job who Elihu was, because Job knew. Elihu spoke for six chapters without a peep from Job. Neither did Job give an answer to God, other than to repent.

The book of Job is about the most self-righteous person there was, but even he could not be his own saviour. Job was not saved in the beginning because that requires God's righteousness, Job had clothed himself in his own righteousness(Job 29:14). Job, much like Israel in Romans 10:1-3, was unsaved because though he had a zeal for God it was not according to knowledge(Job 35:16, 38:2), for going about to establish his own righteousness had not submitted himself unto the righteousness of God.
 
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katerinah1947

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God sent Elihu in place of himself, at Job's bequest. God had no reason to speak of Elihu, it was self evident to Job because Elihu had stated that he was there at Job's request, in the place of God. Job requested him, God sent him. God didn't have to tell Job who Elihu was, because Job knew. Elihu spoke for six chapters without a peep from Job. Neither did Job give an answer to God, other than to repent.

The book of Job is about the most self-righteous person there was, but even he could not be his own saviour. Job was not saved in the beginning because that requires God's righteousness, Job had clothed himself in his own righteousness(Job 29:14). Job, much like Israel in Romans 10:1-3, was unsaved because though he had a zeal for God it was not according to knowledge(Job 35:16, 38:2), for going about to establish his own righteousness had not submitted himself unto the righteousness of God.



Hi,
You are perhaps the only person on this planet, to interpret Job, as being a sinner who God puts in his place, personally and by sending an agent, named Elihu.
Rather, my work without, the knowledge of what happened to Job by, God letting Job,, see Him personally with Job's own eyes, and the work of others supports this understanding derived from just the texts, and using no personal wishes is this:

The Book of Job begins with an introduction to Job's character—he is described as a blessed man who lived righteously in the Land of Uz. The Lord's praise of Job prompted Satan/Accuser to challenge Job's integrity, suggesting that Job served God simply because God protected him. God removed Job's protection, allowing Satan/Accuser to take his wealth, his children, and his physical health (but not his life) in order to test Job's character. Despite his difficult circumstances, he did not curse God, but rather cursed the day of his birth. And although he anguished over his plight, he stopped short of accusing God of injustice.

Most of the book consists of a debate between Job and his three friends concerning Job's condition; they argue whether it was justified, and they debate solutions to his problems. Job ultimately condemns all their counsel, beliefs, and critiques of him as false. The Lord then appears to Job and his friends out of a whirlwind, saying, among many other things, "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me" Job 38:2-3. After the Lord's command, Job was overwhelmed and said: "Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further" Job 40:4.

Many interpretations read this as Job's realizing how little he knew when he says to the Lord: "My ears had heard of you, but now my eyes have seen you."Job 42:5 Other scholars and readers, however, find this explanation unsatisfactory and rather limited, as Job seems to have a competent understanding of why he has been afflicted by God (God's Will) and has spent much of the book attempting to explain to his friends that their counsel is wrong and fruitless because it contains no real knowledge or wisdom. The core concept of "knowledge and or wisdom" being as quoted from Job 28:28 "And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding". Thus, Job's response to God's demand—Job falling silent before God—falls in line with his prior positional arguments he made against his friends in earlier passages. Job's argument was simply thus: that you don't argue with God or assume you know His Will by placing mankind's concepts of righteousness and wickedness on the balancing scale with earthly gains or loses. God will handle all righteousness and wickedness in His time, whether that be on Earth or in Judgment. Job's present earthly condition was God's Will under Satan's test and non-negotiable. By staying silent before God, Job stresses the point that he understood that his affliction was (God's Will) even though he despaired at not knowing why (Satan's test). Despite his confusion and grief to the mental breaking point, Job remained wise enough to understand that silence was the limit to any man's knowledge with respect to God, be he poor, rich, righteous, old, wise, powerful or wicked. All should "fear the Lord and depart from evil" no matter their current station or changes throughout life. When Job said "My ears had heard of you, but now my eyes have seen you", he was not talking about his ignorance of God; rather, he was talking about his relationship to God. Job was faithful without direct knowledge of God and without demands for special attention from God, even for a cause that all others would declare to be just. Upon Job's relief, he sees God and plays witness to his own faith in action.

God, acknowledging these virtues in Job, then rebuked the three friends and gave them instruction for remission of sin, followed by Job being restored to an even better condition than his former wealthy state. Job 42:10-17 Job was also blessed to have seven sons, and three daughters named Jemimah (which means "dove"), Keziah ("cinnamon"), and Keren-happuch ("horn of eye-makeup"). His daughters were said to be the most beautiful women in the land.[3] "After this, Job lived another hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations." Job 42:16

The characters in the Book of Job consist of Job, his wife, his three friends, a man named Elihu, God, Satan and the sons of God. Neither the patriarchs nor any other biblical characters make an appearance.

Though not much is known about Job based on the Masoretic text, the Septuagint has a longer final verse that gives his genealogy, claiming him to be a grandson of Esau and a ruler of Edom. The longer verse reads: "And Job died, an old man and full of days: and it is written that he will rise again with those whom the Lord raises up."

The above can be changed by you if, you wish. You and everyone can correct the above for errors. To do that simply log in, to Wikipedia, then make your changes, but you will have to contend with the peer review process, if your work is found to be faulty.
Their site is this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_(biblical_figure)

I will to honor your work, and further look in, to how you can say without speculation or error, that God Definitely sent in Elihu, and that God was showing Job, only that he is not rightious, and may have used even Satan, to prove that to Job.
In the mean time, you might want to show your proof of God sending in Elihu, and you might want to correct Wikipedia, where they are wrong on this.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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thankfulttt

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Hi,
You are perhaps the only person on this planet, to interpret Job, as being a sinner who God puts in his place, personally and by sending an agent, named Elihu.

I will to honor your work, and further look in, to how you can say without speculation or error, that God Definitely sent in Elihu, and that God was showing Job, only that he is not rightious, and may have used even Satan, to prove that to Job.
In the mean time, you might want to show your proof of God sending in Elihu, and you might want to correct Wikipedia, where they are wrong on this.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Job is identified as only being from Uz. While this is quite significant as it ties him to Edom through Lamentations 4:21, it does not compare to the way in which the book identifies Elihu. Elihu's father is named(twice) and his kindred is named.

Mary do you recognize that there are two tests of Job, and that they had different outcomes?
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,
I have not verified your work. I do understand your point and what you have said.
Do you understand, that even if you are right, until I do the same work you did, the way you did that work, I cannot agree that you are right?
Do you understand that you have made a point worth looking in to? Job is the one book, that I have done the least work with Biblically, as I thought all of his friends were involved in being wrong, and I did not even know there was a guy called Elihu.
So, I am caught unprepared, except in my original findings, and have spent years with just the first and last chapeters of Job, leaving me to do much work now, to be able to veryify or falsify your statements.
My initial findings though are you have extrapolated too much on certain things. As far as Job falling into error and thus failing in his rightiousness, that is too be expected. So, even if it happened I will have to see why you miight have thought it was so important. My other intial findings are not firm enough to talk about yet.
I am sorry that this will take me some time. I wish it was quicker, but there are no time limits on research, even when checking out the validity of someone else's work.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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thankfulttt

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Hi,
I have not verified your work. I do understand your point and what you have said.
Do you understand, that even if you are right, until I do the same work you did, the way you did that work, I cannot agree that you are right?
Do you understand that you have made a point worth looking in to? Job is the one book, that I have done the least work with Biblically, as I thought all of his friends were involved in being wrong, and I did not even know there was a guy called Elihu.
So, I am caught unprepared, except in my original findings, and have spent years with just the first and last chapeters of Job, leaving me to do much work now, to be able to veryify or falsify your statements.
My initial findings though are you have extrapolated too much on certain things. As far as Job falling into error and thus failing in his rightiousness, that is too be expected. So, even if it happened I will have to see why you miight have thought it was so important. My other intial findings are not firm enough to talk about yet.
I am sorry that this will take me some time. I wish it was quicker, but there are no time limits on research, even when checking out the validity of someone else's work.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Fair enough Mary.

I would suggest that you use the bible as your reference. Form your opinions from what the Bible says and not what man says. After that you can compare commentaries with what you have already learned from the Bible. The Bible is its own best encyclopedia and dictionary.

May God bless you.

Terrell
 
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